OT: KG responds to Anthony Edwards

[HuskyWarrior611]

Ant made a comment about Michael Jordan’s era not having many skill guys (which I agree with) and a lot of the old heads have been responding. Kevin Garnett in particular had a pretty passionate response even though he was talking moreso about the 2000s rather than the 90s.



Agree with KG or are players better off than they were in the 2000s today?

 

[Kenny11]

The players are much more skilled now. The offensive and defensive schemes are 1000x times better. The players work on their individual skills more than they used to. It’s very rare to see anyone out of shape.

But post moves aren’t as good and while NBA passing is so good now with all of the cross court passes, players with elite vision and creativity is harder to find…maybe because of the focus on individual skill work and shooting and elite kids growing up without ever playing any type of Streetball or good pickup basketball. The parks in 90s and early 2000s were full of good players. Now everyone who plays at a park is pretty bad.

Edit: damn I watched the video after I posted and didn’t know pierce made some of the same points I made lol.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

The players are much more skilled now. The offensive and defensive schemes are 1000x times better. The players work on their individual skills more than they used to. It’s very rare to see anyone out of shape.

But post moves aren’t as good and while NBA passing is so good now with all of the cross court passes, players with elite vision and creativity is harder to find…maybe because of the focus on individual skill work and shooting and elite kids growing up without ever playing any type of Streetball or good pickup basketball. The parks in 90s and early 2000s were full of good players. Now everyone who plays at a park is pretty bad.

Edit: damn I watched the video after I posted and didn’t know pierce made some of the same points I made lol.

Lmao I thought you were writing a summary for a moment. Agree with everything you said too. Anyone with some type of post moves/mid-range pretty much dominates with all the spacing and shooting around today. Shai, Luka, bigs like Jokic and Embiid.

For anyone that watches remember it’s KG talking, so there’s bound to be some NSFW language in there.

 

[EZPass]

Arenas said it in a funny way a couple years ago calling Grant Hill prototype #1. I was nodding along too lol

YouTube - NSFW, slightly

Grant Hill Part Of Reason Today's Players Think They Could Dominate Past NBA Eras

Gilbert Arenas will never forget watching Grant Hill play in the NBA. He simply referred to him as 'Prototype No. 1.' Arenas and Hill played at different time

www.si.com

 

[aceboon]

Isiah Thomas's comments were limited to twitter but he made some points I agreed with. I think overall the players as a whole are more skilled, but when people talk about post players being more skilled alot of it boils down to whether those guys can shoot 3s and that's a limited viewpoint. Like as a PF is KAT more skilled than Kevin McHale? I don't think so, how many times do we see KAT get the ball in the post in a crucial moment and he's getting bodied and pushed by smaller guys and he'll throw up something weak or be forced into a turnover because he can't counter them with footwork or a hook over either shoulder like bigs from the past can.

Also Edwards didn't say many skilled guys he said there were no other skilled players besides MJ which is complete BS. Hell, even saying "not many skilled guys" would be complete BS and Ant said he didn't even watch it so how can you agree with him unless you didn't watch either.

 

[Excalibur]

The level of instruction at the youth level has gotten so good that players now are better shooters and ball handlers than they used to be at all sizes.

Fitness, nutrition, and weight training regimens have improved as well.

So yeah, in general, guys today are probably more skilled and better players than they were 30 years ago.

But Edwards loses me when he says that Jordan had it easy, as if he wouldn’t dominate today. Imagine Jordan being able to take advantage of screens that would have been called offensive fouls every time in his era, or being able to take two full steps plus a “gather step” for a step-back jumper.

 

[Travelman6]

Funny considering an

The players are much more skilled now. The offensive and defensive schemes are 1000x times better. The players work on their individual skills more than they used to. It’s very rare to see anyone out of shape.

Funny considering an out of shape guy almost single handedly beat the US Allstars in the semis. Granted the later are over hyped. Jordan and company would do more than fine in this era.

 

[boog204]

Funny considering an

Funny considering an out of shape guy almost single handedly beat the US Allstars in the semis. Granted the later are over hyped. Jordan and company would do more than fine in this era.

I think across the board the players are more skilled. You don't have many 7foot stiffs who are there solely to take up space and commit fouls. There are not a lot of small guards who are there to handle the ball and be distributors. But I think the skill guys of the 80s/90s would just as great today as they were then. It always blows my mind that people talk about the athleticism of today being too much for some of the past "greats." Luka and Jokic are two of the best players in the world and both are out of shape and far from athletic specimens. They are dominant b/c their IQ is so high and they are so fundamentally skilled. Just like the majority of the greats of MJ/Magic/Bird's era.

 

[FreeKlaiber]

similar to hockey of yesteryear, the vast majority of todays players are much more skilled & well rounded (Bird, magic, etc exceptions), but they are nowhere near as tough as players had to be back in the 70s-90s. It remains to be seen how todays players would fair back then. I'm picturing Ja Morant's triple clutch layup not being a favorite of Maurice Lucas

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Funny considering an

Funny considering an out of shape guy almost single handedly beat the US Allstars in the semis. Granted the later are over hyped. Jordan and company would do more than fine in this era.

No matter what side of this debate you’re on this is not a compelling argument.

 

[yungdowork]

Old heads tend to do this in every sport, but there literally isn't a single sport where the modern competitors aren't the fastest, most athletic, most skilled group of players we've ever seen. The players now are better because there are a million more tools to get better. There's guys on Instagram that are teaching more basketball skills than NBA coaches were in 1990, and that's not a slight against the coaches. There are just so many more resources to learn the actual skills.

In the exact same way that Jordan had to get tougher to play against the Pistons, basically any star from today's era would adjust and absolutely perform at that level.

 

[gtcam]

Different eras, different game
The prima donnas today would wilt under the physical play of past eras and many players of old would have killed it from the 3 pt line.
I agree that today's players are overall more skilled because all the positions now demand it.
LeBron James would have his head taken off when driving the lane in the 70s and 80s and it all would be play on while LeBron would be crying to the refs.
I am not a fan of comparing players of different eras in any sport.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

similar to hockey of yesteryear, the vast majority of todays players are much more skilled & well rounded (Bird, magic, etc exceptions), but they are nowhere near as tough as players had to be back in the 70s-90s. It remains to be seen how todays players would fair back then. I'm picturing Ja Morant's triple clutch layup not being a favorite of Maurice Lucas

Yeah but that just lends itself to being a worse version of the game. I understand the enforcers are/were fun to watch, but if for example, Ja is flying through the air and Charles Oakley bodies him to the floor, that’s just dangerous. And again, that kind of shows the skill gap. Brute/brawn over skill and intelligence doesn’t really work.

 

[superjohn]

Yeah but that just lends itself to being a worse version of the game. I understand the enforcers are/were fun to watch, but if for example, Ja is flying through the air and Charles Oakley bodies him to the floor, that’s just dangerous. And again, that kind of shows the skill gap. Brute/brawn over skill and intelligence doesn’t really work.

It's just a different type of game. I would prefer a balance of both skill and brute force. I don't want a full return to the Pat Riley Knicks with muscle bound low scoring hack fests but I don't want to see the 80 threes hoisted a game we see now. I miss the post play/post moves we used to see. I love watching SGA, Kawhi (when healthy) and DeRozan because they still show how important the mid range jumper is, I miss guys dunking on each other. Don't get me wrong, I still love today's game but too much of the balance of the game is thrown off by modern offense and three point dependence.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

It's just a different type of game. I would prefer a balance of both skill and brute force. I don't want a full return to the Pat Riley Knicks with muscle bound low scoring hack fests but I don't want to see the 80 threes hoisted a game we see now. I miss the post play/post moves we used to see, I love watching SGA, Kawhi (when healthy) and DeRozan because they still show how important the mid range jumper is, I miss guys dunking on each other. Don't get me wrong, I still love today's game but too much of the balance of the game is thrown off by modern offense and three point dependence.

I agree, I think the foul baiting is unwatchable. But, that is not on the players. You take advantage of anything you can in sports. The NBA/Refs have to iron that stuff out so it gets less and less prevalent. The Olympics is a good example on how the game can and should be Reffed.

3 point dependence is what it is. I used to hate it, but the modern offense is so flowing that there are rarely any bad shots taken, and open 3s are the most efficient shots.

I don’t think there is any kind of a lack of people dunking on eachother either. Two of the best posters in the history of the game have come in the last couple years with Ant and Ja.

 

[JerseyAlum]

Didn't KG "almost" come to UConn?

 

[aceboon]

Didn't KG "almost" come to UConn?

No, that's the story Calhoun likes to tell but KG has told this story multiple times that he would have went to Michigan if he went to college

 

[superjohn]

I agree, I think the foul baiting is unwatchable. But, that is not on the players. You take advantage of anything you can in sports. The NBA/Refs have to iron that stuff out so it gets less and less prevalent. The Olympics is a good example on how the game can and should be Reffed.

3 point dependence is what it is. I used to hate it, but the modern offense is so flowing that there are rarely any bad shots taken, and open 3s are the most efficient shots.

I don’t think there is any kind of a lack of people dunking on eachother either. Two of the best posters in the history of the game have come in the last couple years with Ant and Ja.

Half court dunks are exceedingly rare as far as my viewing. I have no idea if that's even tracked or how to look it up but players dunking on 7 footers was a pretty common thing when I was young. Jordan did it nightly it seemed. Now I hardly ever see people challenge others at the rim.

 

[superjohn]

No, that's the story Calhoun likes to tell but KG has told this story multiple times that he would have went to Michigan if he went to college

Calhoun was always loose with this sort of stuff and loose with numbers.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Half court dunks are exceedingly rare as far as my viewing. I have no idea if that's even tracked or how to look it up but players dunking on 7 footers was a pretty common thing when I was young. Jordan did it nightly it seemed. Now I hardly ever see people challenge others at the rim.

I mean, those 2 that I mentioned were on guys that are 6’10+. Ant’s dunk is probably the best poster i’ve ever seen live. I think this is a bit revisionist, players challenge others at the rim all the time still.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Isiah Thomas's comments were limited to twitter but he made some points I agreed with. I think overall the players as a whole are more skilled, but when people talk about post players being more skilled alot of it boils down to whether those guys can shoot 3s and that's a limited viewpoint. Like as a PF is KAT more skilled than Kevin McHale? I don't think so, how many times do we see KAT get the ball in the post in a crucial moment and he's getting bodied and pushed by smaller guys and he'll throw up something weak or be forced into a turnover because he can't counter them with footwork or a hook over either shoulder like bigs from the past can.

Also Edwards didn't say many skilled guys he said there were no other skilled players besides MJ which is complete BS. Hell, even saying "not many skilled guys" would be complete BS and Ant said he didn't even watch it so how can you agree with him unless you didn't watch either.

I agree with your whole first paragraph. When I say skilled guys in the 90s I’m mostly referring to perimeter players. Mike was so ahead of his time in that regard it seemed.

Him and Scottie were the most skilled wings in the NBA then. This wouldn’t include Magic and Bird because I consider them the 80s.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

Half court dunks are exceedingly rare as far as my viewing. I have no idea if that's even tracked or how to look it up but players dunking on 7 footers was a pretty common thing when I was young. Jordan did it nightly it seemed. Now I hardly ever see people challenge others at the rim.

I think I hear what you mean. The wings of the 2000s had so many guys capable of that poster.

Vince, Kobe, T-Mac, Ray, and many more. even the young group of Bron, Melo, Wade.

The wings of today just aren’t close to what we used to see there. You could probably make an argument that none of the wings of today aren’t better overall scorers than even a Paul Pierce. At least the American ones.

 

[EnochRoot]

It’s a stupid argument juniors like to bathe in to convince themselves they’re better than the past.

No, you’re not better. You’re taking advantage of the better resources made possible by the athletes who came before you did. If the situations were reversed, the same story would be told.

/thread.

 

[aceboon]

I agree with your whole first paragraph. When I say skilled guys in the 90s I’m mostly referring to perimeter players. Mike was so ahead of his time in that regard it seemed.

Him and Scottie were the most skilled wings in the NBA then. This wouldn’t include Magic and Bird because I consider them the 80s.

Scottie wasn't the 2nd most skilled 90s wing(SFs & SGs).

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I think I hear what you mean. The wings of the 2000s had so many guys capable of that poster.

Vince, Kobe, T-Mac, Ray, and many more. even the young group of Bron, Melo, Wade.

The wings of today just aren’t close to what we used to see there. You could probably make an argument that none of the wings of today aren’t better overall scorers than even a Paul Pierce. At least the American ones.

Some people are so gripped by nostalgia it hurts.