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OT - Giants HC search (Update: Hiring Ben McAdoo)

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mauconnfan said:
Have a feeling the Coughlin snub on Mr Mara had to do little with that.
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Yup, it definitely painted the picture, and rightfully so. In my estimation, which ultimately means nothing, Reese is far more culpable than Coughlin, who had to deal with thin personnel to start, and a lot of injuries piled on top. That's the NFL though. Lots of Peter Principle, mainly I think, because people (owners/GMs) are very afraid to make mistakes. Say what you want about BB being arrogant, but he def does NOT have that problem, to his benefit.
 
intlzncster said:
Hahaha your bias is showing through there. McDaniels has said all the right things about his failure with the Broncos. It seems like he picked up on a lot that went wrong, and has tried to address those issues (both in action and in talking with more experienced guys). He realizes that much of his fault was in the personality he brought to the team, the relationships, and his failure to delegate. He was only 32 years old at the time, and hadn't even been a coordinator for that long. Writing off a guy in that position is like writing off a player who hasn't broken through in year 2 after being drafted; way too early to tell. I mean, the guy could coach in the league for another 30+ years! I'd be willing to bet he'd be more successful next time around.

Although, the selfish part of me hopes that he doesn't get the opportunity, as he's a very good OC for the Pats. Gets too cute sometimes, but everybody has their faults. What he did with such a banged up offense is commendable.
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Knowing and admitting your failings doesn't mean you can change or overcome them. How people can't see that is beyond me - it's possible, but it's not always reality. McDaniels could or he couldn't be a good head coach the second time around, lots of guys on either side of that coin not just in coaching, but in any profession. I happen to think talent rises to the top pretty quickly and distinguishes itself from the others. He's certainly done that on a OC front, but not as a HC. I think the combination of him and Reese would be a boon for the NFC east opponents of the Giants. Reese hasn't exactly proved to be a talent wiz so if McDaniel got the gig and he could put his learning into practice the smartest voice in the room would be Reese - jesus. But as MAU stated he doesn't seem to fit the mold of Giants coach.

I'm sure he will be a coach for another 30 years somewhere.

I compare him with Charlie Weiss because I know people on Charlie's staff at his various college coaching stops and he was and is an ass and he does think he's the smartest guy in the room and Josh by his own admission fell into the "smartest guy in the room" category as he admitted he didn't listen to anyone. Again not as abrasive as Charlie, but you'd have to try really hard to be that abrasive.

I don't have an anti-patriots bias because I remember plenty of years where the Broncos kicked the Patriots ass every which way from Sunday and with that said there is no denying that in terms of Super Bowl success the Patriots have it over the Broncos.

But I'll leave this here anyway because it's funnier than hell -
 
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Northbound said:
Knowing and admitting your failings doesn't mean you can change or overcome them. How people can't see that is beyond me - it's possible, but it's not always reality. McDaniels could or he couldn't be a good head coach the second time around, lots of guys on either side of that coin not just in coaching, but in any profession. I happen to think talent rises to the top pretty quickly and distinguishes itself from the others. He's certainly done that on a OC front, but not as a HC. I think the combination of him and Reese would be a boon for the NFC east opponents of the Giants. Reese hasn't exactly proved to be a talent wiz so if McDaniel got the gig and he could put his learning into practice the smartest voice in the room would be Reese - jesus. But as MAU stated he doesn't seem to fit the mold of Giants coach.
I compare him with Charlie Weiss because I know people on Charlie's staff at his various college coaching stops and he was and is an ass and he does think he's the smartest guy in the room and Josh by his own admission fell into the "smartest guy in the room" category as he admitted he didn't listen to anyone. Again not as abrasive as Charlie, but you'd have to try really hard to be that abrasive.
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I'm not saying you had an anti-Patriots bias at all, more of an anti-McDaniels one. My comment was intended to imply that he burned your Broncos and that probably still sticks in your craw.

Nor am I saying McDaniels will be guaranteed good, but you are automatically lumping him in the Weiss category, and disregarding the other end of the spectrum. BB has many of the same qualities you mentioned. And as noted, he was a failure at Cleveland and learned from many of the errors of his ways. The better coaches learn how to adapt. BB did it. Coughlin did it. Carroll did it. There's nothing saying that McDaniels can't do the same, other than your desire to paint him like Charlie Weiss.

A really hard problem for 'smartest guy in the room' types is to admit that very fact. If McDaniels is capable of recognizing that in himself, then it's reasonable to assume he can probably address it. The fact that he said he was "humbled" many times, says a lot to me. He's going to need help, and he realizes it.

Do I think JM is going to be BB? Of course not, nobody is. And ultimately, if JM doesn't have a legit quarterback (not Brady level, but good), he'll probably fail like every other coach in the league. Just the way it goes.

As far as the Giants go, no coach will fix that situation, unless Reese magically fixes his own problems. I'm not betting he will. You can't win consistently without players. People say Coughlin cost the Giants a whole bunch of games, but the reality is that he might be one of the big reasons a less than cast of characters was in those situations in the first place. Looks like we'll find out.
 
mauconnfan said:
As much as I wanted him it is more important to be sure we had that 2nd round pick anyway so reese could bless us with yet another great pick:confused:
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I would be very very surprised if Mcadoo is not the HC of this team next year.

They will have to fulfill the Rooney rule requirement, but once they do, they will announce Mcadoo as the HC.
 
Jerry1714 said:
I would be very very surprised if Mcadoo is not the HC of this team next year.

They will have to fulfill the Rooney rule requirement, but once they do, they will announce Mcadoo as the HC.
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Ugghhh not at all excited about that one if it happens. But if Reese is part of the search committee it could be ugly - have no idea how he would be?
 
mauconnfan said:
Ugghhh not at all excited about that one if it happens. But if Reese is part of the search committee it could be ugly - have no idea how he would be?
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Mara said it will be Reese and himself conducting the interviews, but that final say will be Mara and Tisch.

Anything that Reese has his hand in has huge potential for failure.

Mcadoo is unknown, I think he has done a great job with Eli and the offense and was very well regarded in GB, but he is young and there was offense decisions, which I do not know were his or TCs that were strange, specifically the usage of the RBs. The Giants not making him available to the media much also makes it hard to see how he can handle a press conference or the NY media (although no way he could do worse than Reese did yesterday, not sure if you saw the presser but holy heck he was an embarrassment)

At the end of the day I do not know what to think of him, but I do not know what to think of any other coordinator from around the league who has no head coaching experience either.
 
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Jerry1714 said:
Mara said it will be Reese and himself conducting the interviews, but that final say will be Mara and Tisch.
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Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but this doesn't make any sense. Shouldn't all of the guys with the final say on the hire at the very least interview the candidates?
 
intlzncster said:
Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but this doesn't make any sense. Shouldn't all of the guys with the final say on the hire at the very least interview the candidates?
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One would think, but Tisch is hands off but hes still an owner and has a say

JOHN MARA: Jerry and I will do the initial interviews. At some point Steve and possibly other members of the Tisch family will get to meet the final candidates. We'll do it pretty much the same way Ernie and I did it in '04: do the initial interviews and come back with a recommendation.
 
Is Lovey Smith coaching now? He'd be a great fit for the Giants. I never wanted the Bears to let him go and look at the Bears since. They didn't realize how good they had it.
 
UCweCONN said:
Is Lovey Smith coaching now? He'd be a great fit for the Giants. I never wanted the Bears to let him go and look at the Bears since. They didn't realize how good they had it.
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lovie is coaching the buccaneers.
 
Stairmaster said:
UCwe must have ESP...

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As a matter of fact I do. I predict a bunch of likes coming my way... . In fairness, on the chat last night, I also predicted we would beat Temple with the last shot......
 
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tcf15 said:
That's strange. Gotta give Lovie more than two years.
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That's the way of the NFL now man. It's totally ridiculous, and it definitely doesn't work, but look at a lot of the firings lately: Tomsula 1 year. Doug Marrone 1.5 years. Mike Pettine 2 years. Chip Kelly 2.5 years, but only 1 picking his own players. And so on.

Personally, I think you've got to put a lot of time into finding the right guy, in concert with the right GM, and give them 6 years. jmo though.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
I would like Lovie as a coach for us, been around for a while and did pretty well with the bears
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Think he interviewed with the Giants back when they fired Fassell, so there is some history there.
 
intlzncster said:
Maybe I'm being obtuse here, but this doesn't make any sense. Shouldn't all of the guys with the final say on the hire at the very least interview the candidates?
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I would think and I haven't even received a phone call yet. Strange
 
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http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/01/ben_mcadoo_file_what_questions_he_must_answer_from.html

What he does have working in his favor is that McAdoo is viewed as the "next Andy Reid," according to one NFL source. That's not a bad comparison. Reid was 41 when he was an unknown plucked off the Green Bay Packers staff by the Eagles in 1999. He has 171 career coaching wins and led his teams to the playoffs 11 times.

I asked more than a dozen current and former players (off the record) what they thought of McAdoo as a head coach. Not one had questions about whether he was too young for the job or could command a room.

Here's a sampling of some of the terms used to describe the head coaching candidate:

"Gets along well with guys."

"Good teacher."

"Innovative." "Has leadership qualities."

"Can control the team"

"Great guy."

"Winner."

"Puts in the work."

"Assertive."

"Knows how to relay a message."

"Knows how to control the room."

"Never flinches. Never blinks."

"Approachable."
 
At this point, I would be very shocked if McAdoo is not the coach. The Giants obviously think very highly of him and I dont think they want to take the chance of losing him to another organization.
 
intlzncster said:
That's the way of the NFL now man. It's totally ridiculous, and it definitely doesn't work, but look at a lot of the firings lately: Tomsula 1 year. Doug Marrone 1.5 years. Mike Pettine 2 years. Chip Kelly 2.5 years, but only 1 picking his own players. And so on.

Personally, I think you've got to put a lot of time into finding the right guy, in concert with the right GM, and give them 6 years. jmo though.
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Morrone didn't get fired..he exercised a clause in his contract and basically quit/walked away from his job in Buffalo.
 
FDNY99 said:
Morrone didn't get fired..he exercised a clause in his contract and basically quit/walked away from his job in Buffalo.
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Yeah, that likes a "mutual" resignation. Guys don't just walk away from lucrative position at the top of their profession for sh_ts and giggles. Coughlin "resigned" too, although everybody knows he was being fired.
 
tcf15 said:
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/01/ben_mcadoo_file_what_questions_he_must_answer_from.html

What he does have working in his favor is that McAdoo is viewed as the "next Andy Reid," according to one NFL source. That's not a bad comparison. Reid was 41 when he was an unknown plucked off the Green Bay Packers staff by the Eagles in 1999. He has 171 career coaching wins and led his teams to the playoffs 11 times.

I asked more than a dozen current and former players (off the record) what they thought of McAdoo as a head coach. Not one had questions about whether he was too young for the job or could command a room.

Here's a sampling of some of the terms used to describe the head coaching candidate:

"Gets along well with guys."

"Good teacher."

"Innovative." "Has leadership qualities."

"Can control the team"

"Great guy."

"Winner."

"Puts in the work."

"Assertive."

"Knows how to relay a message."

"Knows how to control the room."

"Never flinches. Never blinks."

"Approachable."
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Owners/GMs seem more interested in people skills these days, rather than actually being able to coach (or manage a roster). The number of times I've heard 'people skills' as high on the list lately is absurd. It's not that important if you are a great coach. Does a guy have to learn to get along somewhat? Sure, McDaniels and Kelly proved that, but it's still an overrated requirement on the list of things you want.

If fact, many of the best coaches aren't all that great (or are 'different') with people. BB, Jim Harbaugh, Coughlin, Parcells, ect. Some need to learn to meet somewhere closer to the middles, ie Kelly, but he's still a great coach.
 
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