OT: Giants-Browns trade

[huskysupporter]

Of course I haven't watched Vernon for the last two years, the Giants are unwatchable. But from what I read, Vernon went to the Pro Bowl as an DE so the Giants moved him to LB. And now you guys say he sucks. That's so Gianty. He'll be back at DE with a formidable guy on the other side. Sounds good.

Who said Vernon is terrible?

 

[huskysupporter]

No worries. I may not have articulated my point as well as I could have. As a Browns fan, I'm not even sure how I feel about the trade but I understood why they did it from an economic and team building standpoint. It's really going to depend on how Corbett plays as Zeitler's replacement. Hopefully it works out for both teams.

I actually love what the Browns have done accumulating draft picks and think Baker Mayfield was the perfect pick for them. They will be the class of the North shortly.

 

[Waquoit]

I actually love what the Browns have done accumulating draft picks and think Baker Mayfield was the perfect pick for them. They will be the class of the North shortly.

Anyone can accumulate picks. The trick is turning them in players. The Browns squandered years of high picks. The experts I saw graded out the Browns draft as a low B the day after, an A+ at the end of the season. Dorsey's 1st draft and he's drafted at least 6 starters for next year.

 

[intlzncster]

Of course I haven't watched Vernon for the last two years, the Giants are unwatchable. But from what I read, Vernon went to the Pro Bowl as an DE so the Giants moved him to LB. And now you guys say he sucks. That's so Gianty. He'll be back at DE with a formidable guy on the other side. Sounds good.

I'm a Pats fan through and through, but if you weren't watching Saquon Barkley this year, you were doing it wrong.

 

[intlzncster]

Anyone can accumulate picks. The trick is turning them in players. The Browns squandered years of high picks. The experts I saw graded out the Browns draft as a low B the day after, an A+ at the end of the season. Dorsey's 1st draft and he's drafted at least 6 starters for next year.

It's not the same front office though. The owner kinda blows, and put in place a lot of dysfunctional characters. Dorsey is his strongest hire, so we'll see if it pays off.

I love Baker before the draft, and last season did nothing to dissuade me of that notion. Kid's a baller and a winner.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Of course I haven't watched Vernon for the last two years, the Giants are unwatchable. But from what I read, Vernon went to the Pro Bowl as an DE so the Giants moved him to LB. And now you guys say he sucks. That's so Gianty. He'll be back at DE with a formidable guy on the other side. Sounds good.

When you haven't watched a team in two seasons, its probably best you refrain from commenting on them.

Vernon had a good season in 2016 and was one of the better players on a defense that carried the Giants into the playoffs. Then Vernon was injured quite a bit the last two seasons and wasn't the same player when he was on the field.

Also, they can classify Vernon however they want, listing him as a LB last season, but his role on the defense didn't change and he was essentially the same player.

 

[T-Squared]

You’re like 2-3 years behind on this take. Zeitler is elite at his position. Vernon is not anymore.

You're playing pee wee football.

According to Pro Football Focus, Vernon had the seventh-highest pass rush grade in 2018 among edge defenders, and the third-highest 1-on-1 grade per rush.

Sounds a lot like a guy who's not elite anymore.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

You're playing pee wee football.

According to Pro Football Focus, Vernon had the seventh-highest pass rush grade in 2018 among edge defenders, and the third-highest 1-on-1 grade per rush.

Sounds a lot like a guy who's not elite anymore.

He was going to get cut if he wasn’t traded. Just stop. PFF is at best horribly inconsistent and not exactly the dogma you think.

 

[Waquoit]

When you haven't watched a team in two seasons, its probably best you refrain from commenting on them.

Or else what? I don't have to watch them to know that they don't what they're doing. The same fans that have been telling me Eli is elite for the last five years are telling me Vernon isn't any good. That alone makes me think Vernon will thrive with the Browns.

 

[AdamaNation]

Brown will sign as FA somewhere he can start at guard if I had to guess....Giants should focus on FA Williams for tackle

Merv always says good 2nd contract FAs over any draft pick gamble. There is no guarantee of anything at any position barring injury. Pros are pros with experience and necessary physical traits. They have real tape, not just potential.

 

[uconnbill]

Players with more QB hits than Olivier Vernon from 2015-2018:
1. Aaron Donald (136)
2. Von Miller (105)
3. Michael Bennett (103)
4. Carlos Dunlap (102)
5. Cameron Jordan and Calais Campbell (93)
7. Vernon (92)

Thank you.

Here is just one

Zietler has not missed a game in four years.

Vernon has missed multiple games the last two years in a row.

Wrong defense for Vernon as well. Zeitler is made for a passing offense plus he can run block.

 

[uconnbill]

Or else what? I don't have to watch them to know that they don't what they're doing. The same fans that have been telling me Eli is elite for the last five years are telling me Vernon isn't any good. That alone makes me think Vernon will thrive with the Browns.

He will be across from a very good end in Myles Garrett so he will probably do well if he can stay healthy. Something he has had issues doing for awhile now

 

[outlaw]

Zietler has not missed a game in four years.

doomed

 

[KembaStepback]

For me, not at all. I want Haskins to drop to 6 so the Giants take him and have their franchise QB. Can't call it a waste of a year if you're getting your franchise QB

True. However I'm not a fan of Haskins. OSU QBs haven't panned out in the NFL lately. Maybe he will be good, but I'm just not a fan.

 

[Rico444]

He was going to get cut if he wasn’t traded. Just stop. PFF is at best horribly inconsistent and not exactly the dogma you think.

He had 7 sacks in 11 games, that's a 10 sack pace for a full season. You can say he has had trouble staying healthy, but he's been productive when on the field.

 

[KembaStepback]

He had 7 sacks in 11 games, that's a 10 sack pace for a full season. You can say he has had trouble staying healthy, but he's been productive when on the field.

Vernon just cost too much money for what he was bringing. Often injured and decently productive is not worth his cap hit.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

He had 7 sacks in 11 games, that's a 10 sack pace for a full season. You can say he has had trouble staying healthy, but he's been productive when on the field.

You don't think that's an overly simplistic way to evaluate a DE?

Or else what? I don't have to watch them to know that they don't what they're doing. The same fans that have been telling me Eli is elite for the last five years are telling me Vernon isn't any good. That alone makes me think Vernon will thrive with the Browns.

Or else you look like you're talking out of your ass? What does Eli have to do with the discussion of Vernon?

You admitted you don't watch the Giants, and then proceed to tell Giants fans who have watched every snap of the guy how they are wrong.

 

[Waquoit]

Or else you look like you're talking out of your ass? What does Eli have to do with the discussion of Vernon?
You admitted you don't watch the Giants, and then proceed to tell Giants fans who have watched every snap of the guy how they are wrong.

Giant fans have been calling Eli "elite" for years. The Giants built the team around him just last year. But he's been washed for at least as long as the last 3 Pats SB's. Pardon me if I give Giant fans talent evaluation skills the consideration they deserve.

 

[Rico444]

Vernon just cost too much money for what he was bringing. Often injured and decently productive is not worth his cap hit.

You can make that argument for sure, but people are saying in this thread that he's not productive anymore and implying that he's washed up. He hasn't been as good as he was when he hit the open market, mostly due to injuries, but he's still a very good edge rusher when he's on the field.

You don't think that's an overly simplistic way to evaluate a DE?

So sacks are a bad way of evaluating a DE, and PFF stats are also a bad measure. How exactly do you evaluate edge rushers?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Giant fans have been calling Eli "elite" for years. The Giants built the team around him just last year. But he's been washed for at least as long as the last 3 Pats SB's. Pardon me if I give Giant fans talent evaluation skills the consideration they deserve.

So in this made up scenario where Giants fans are calling Eli elite, you've justified commenting on the play of a guy on a team you didn't watch all season?

So sacks are a bad way of evaluating a DE, and PFF stats are also a bad measure. How exactly do you evaluate edge rushers?

Watch the games?

 

[Rico444]

Watch the games?

Ok, I do that already? I think the guy is still a very good pass rusher. The numbers back me up.

 

[AdamaNation]

Vernon just cost too much money for what he was bringing. Often injured and decently productive is not worth his cap hit.

I’m ticked about Collins but I think his injuries (non reported) were the major factor even over the occasional lost coverage. He fits Seattle perfectly but I would prefer an AFC team like the jets.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Ok, I do that already? I think the guy is still a very good pass rusher. The numbers back me up.

I disagree. I don't think that PFF is the holy bible that some make it out to be.

Staying on the field matters. The context of when you make your plays matters.

I don't think Vernon was particularly that effective last year in impacting the games.

 

[Rico444]

I disagree. I don't think that PFF is the holy bible that some make it out to be.

Staying on the field matters. The context of when you make your plays matters.

I don't think Vernon was particularly that effective last year in impacting the games.

PFF doesn't have to be the holy bible to be a valuable resource. And yes, Vernon has had trouble staying on the field the last two years and when he has been has probably lost a step from the elite level he was playing at when he signed his contract. He's still very good, and very good pass rushers get paid a ton of money. If he hit the open market right now he would get $15 million a year, easily. Dante Fowler just signed a deal for $14 million next year. Dante Fowler! He had 4 sacks in 16 games (or 3 less than Vernon in 5 more games).

 

[ConnHuskBask]

PFF doesn't have to be the holy bible to be a valuable resource. And yes, Vernon has had trouble staying on the field the last two years and when he has been has probably lost a step from the elite level he was playing at when he signed his contract. He's still very good, and very good pass rushers get paid a ton of money. If he hit the open market right now he would get $15 million a year, easily. Dante Fowler just signed a deal for $14 million next year. Dante Fowler! He had 4 sacks in 16 games (or 3 less than Vernon in 5 more games).

Fair enough. His age/injuries would really worry me as a Browns fan. That said I guess he can play a complimentary role in Cleveland where as NY he was supposed to be the guy post JPP and I don't think he lived up to that.