OT: Giants-Browns trade

[Waquoit]

Bizarre trade on the Browns end but the Giants got a nice deal.

Only if you think Bill Belichick is bizarre, this is his kind of move. They trade a player they will replace with cheaper while addressing an area of need. They have their 2 tackles signed. And flipping an extra 5th for another 4th helps balance their draft picks.

 

[Huskyforlife]

Does it bother anyone else when fans say "I want to trade back?" Someone has to want to trade up to be able to trade back, tell me who you would take at 6.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Only if you think Bill Belichick is bizarre, this is his kind of move. They trade a player they will replace with cheaper while addressing an area of need. They have their 2 tackles signed. And flipping an extra 5th for another 4th helps balance their draft picks.

Uhhhh, no. They traded a premier player, who based on his age and position should have at least three more very strong or elite seasons, with no proven depth behind him and a second-year QB that they just invested the number one overall pick in. It's at least mildly Belicheck-like until you consider they took back a bad contract for an unproductive player and got a minimal bump in draft standing.

 

[navery12]

I want Haskins at 6 and it's not even close. Otherwise I guess Rashan Gary if Haskins is gone

 

[Exit 4]

Updated draft slots for NY Giants in 2019 post trade. Four picks in round 5.

Something to consider on Zeitler is 30 and have three years remaining under contract. I will be very happy if we get two good seasons.


Round 1: 6th
Round 2: 5th (37th overall)
Round 4: 6th (108)
Round 5: 4th (142) -via SF/DET (Damon Harrison trade)
Round 5: 5th (143)
Round 5: 17th (155) -via CLE (Vernon trade)
Round 5: 33rd (171) -compensatory pick
Round 6: 7th (180)
Round 7: 18th (232) -via MIN (Brett Jones trade)
Round 7: 31st (245) -via LAR (Alec Ogletree trade)

So what can we do to engineer a third round pick?

 

[UCfor3]

I'm a Browns fan and they did this trade for several reasons. They had a boatload of money dedicated to paying both their guards. Bitonio their left guard is even better and younger than Zeitler and he is making big coin as well. Paying both your guards that much cash is not ideal as it's considered a "non premium" position. This redistributes cash to what they consider a premium position. They also drafted guard Austin Corbett at top of 2nd round last year before they even took Nick Chubb. He's unproven but he is a cheaper, younger replacement with upside already in house. Many people think Vernon was miscast in NY a bit playing more of an LB role than a true 4-3 DE that he thrived at in Miami opposite Cameron Wake. The Browns are looking for someone to make teams pay on other side when Garrett is inevitably doubled on every play. I don't know how I feel about the trade. It may be good for both teams. I think it's much safer for the Giants. Zeitler is a very good , durable guard that fills an area of need. With Vernon it could be boom or bust for the Browns. If he stays healthy and returns to form playing his more natural position on a more regular basis it could be great. He will hardly ever be doubled like he was in NY because of Myles Garrett, so being productive will be easier. If he's always hurt and never regains form of past, then he will become a high priced albatross. I'm not usually a fan of trading a dependable player like Zeitler, especially with a shorter QB. Keeping inside penetration to a minimum is important when Baker stays in the pocket. I'm going to hope for the best. Dorsey has been on a heater lately so I will buy in and hope it works out.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Updated draft slots for NY Giants in 2019 post trade. Four picks in round 5.

Something to consider on Zeitler is 30 and have three years remaining under contract. I will be very happy if we get two good seasons.


Round 1: 6th
Round 2: 5th (37th overall)
Round 4: 6th (108)
Round 5: 4th (142) -via SF/DET (Damon Harrison trade)
Round 5: 5th (143)
Round 5: 17th (155) -via CLE (Vernon trade)
Round 5: 33rd (171) -compensatory pick
Round 6: 7th (180)
Round 7: 18th (232) -via MIN (Brett Jones trade)
Round 7: 31st (245) -via LAR (Alec Ogletree trade)

So what can we do to engineer a third round pick?

Zeitler turned 29 today and elite guards often maintain that level of play into their early 30s and can be productive players through their mid-30s.

 

[Exit 4]

Zeitler turned 29 today and elite guards often maintain that level of play into their early 30s and can be productive players through their mid-30s.

My bad on the age. Yes, OL man often play into their mid 30s at a high level....for other teams...

Doesn't seem like that has happened for the Giants much in the past 15 years. Looking back at guys like O'Hara, Diehl, Petitgout, Beatty, Snee, Seuburt, etc they all hit a wall at age 30 to 31. Some played to perhaps 33, but the last two years were spotty for many and really none played past 32.

So with all that said, I'm glad he turns 29 today and not 30 - it matters.

 

[Waquoit]

I'll certainly trust Dorsey's talent evaluation over a Gints fan. Zeitner had the highest salary for a guard in the league last year. The Giants are an unproductive team, I can easily see a player leaving and suddenly become more productive.

 

[intlzncster]

I agree they are a team on the rise but no idea why you would trade a premier interior lineman for a highly paid d lineman who has underachieved. Doesn’t make any sense to me.

Giants just took care of a huge need dealing a guy many thought they would cut

Yeah I agree. You've got a young stud QB who needs, above all else superior offensive linemen, so he can focus on other things.

I guess if they load up on guard in response, they could be OK. They've got a butt load of cap, so you can sign/draft a number of guys and see how it shakes out.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I'll certainly trust Dorsey's talent evaluation over a Gints fan. Zeitner had the highest salary for a guard in the league last year. The Giants are an unproductive team, I can easily see a player leaving and suddenly become more productive.

I'm a Texans fan. Have no skin in the game here. Sure I guess Vernon could have a rennaisance year but on paper it doesn't look good. They should've just found a team willing to give them better draft capital than flipping a 5th for a 4th, which is essentially the only value they got.

 

[uconnbill]

I'll certainly trust Dorsey's talent evaluation over a Gints fan. Zeitner had the highest salary for a guard in the league last year. The Giants are an unproductive team, I can easily see a player leaving and suddenly become more productive.

Coming from a Patriots fan whose team can't beat the Giants in the biggest game of the year.

It helps the Giants now all they need is a right tackle which they should get in free agency. Daryll Williams from Carolina makes the most obvious choice as Gettleman drafted him.
The next player I would want is Anthony Barr as he is a wonderful rush linebacker and can play the run as well. Those are the two players I would want with the $35 million in cap space

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Updated draft slots for NY Giants in 2019 post trade. Four picks in round 5.

Something to consider on Zeitler is 30 and have three years remaining under contract. I will be very happy if we get two good seasons.


Round 1: 6th
Round 2: 5th (37th overall)
Round 4: 6th (108)
Round 5: 4th (142) -via SF/DET (Damon Harrison trade)
Round 5: 5th (143)
Round 5: 17th (155) -via CLE (Vernon trade)
Round 5: 33rd (171) -compensatory pick
Round 6: 7th (180)
Round 7: 18th (232) -via MIN (Brett Jones trade)
Round 7: 31st (245) -via LAR (Alec Ogletree trade)

So what can we do to engineer a third round pick?

I think we could package an early 5th along with another of the 5ths for a 3rd, might have to switch 4th rounders too though.

 

[Waquoit]

Coming from a Patriots fan whose team can't beat the Giants in the biggest game of the year.

That's because the Giants can't do it anymore. That Pats have been to 4 SB's since then. Where you been? The funny thing is while Eli screwed the Pats in 2012, he been screwing the Gints ever since! He's my 2nd favorite QB still playing.

 

[KembaStepback]

This move screams Eli under center next yr. My guess (and it's just a guess) is that they Haskins interest is a bit of bluster to hopefully get a team to overpay them for the pick or move up and not take the defensive player they like. There are a bunch of guys I like. Josh Allen could be a fit, as could Quinnen Williams. I'd love Devin White, but since the Giants haven't taken a LB in Round 1 since 82 I'm doubtful that happens.

 

[navery12]

This move screams Eli under center next yr. My guess (and it's just a guess) is that they Haskins interest is a bit of bluster to hopefully get a team to overpay them for the pick or move up and not take the defensive player they like. There are a bunch of guys I like. Josh Allen could be a fit, as could Quinnen Williams. I'd love Devin White, but since the Giants haven't taken a LB in Round 1 since 82 I'm doubtful that happens.

If Allen or Williams are there it's a no brainier, but those guys are top 3 or 4 picks so it's moot. Even if they take Haskins he's not coming in and playing, he'll sit behind Eli for a while

 

[huskysupporter]

Only if you think Bill Belichick is bizarre, this is his kind of move. They trade a player they will replace with cheaper while addressing an area of need. They have their 2 tackles signed. And flipping an extra 5th for another 4th helps balance their draft picks.

Huh? The player they traded is an elite offensive guard by any metric. To think Corbett can step in and be as effective as Zeitler is a stretch. And they addressed an area of need by trading for a player who likely would have been a cap casualty, makes a ton of money, and isn’t nearly as valuable as Zeitler as a football player.

That’s not a belicheck move, that’s the opposite of a belicheck move.

 

[huskysupporter]

I am no giants fan by any stretch, as I think their allegiance to Eli is really holding them back (I would have released Eli and signed Foles). But they got an all pro caliber player while unloading an expensive average player. What makes it even better is that this is a talent rich d lineman draft so the Giants will likely get a better d lineman than Vernon in the first round.

Giants made themselves better.

 

[KembaStepback]

If Allen or Williams are there it's a no brainier, but those guys are top 3 or 4 picks so it's moot. Even if they take Haskins he's not coming in and playing, he'll sit behind Eli for a while

Well that's the hope, right. So if Murray and Haskins go in the top 5, then that leaves Bosa, Allen, Williams. If for some reason one of them falls for whatever reason, the Giants would benefit.

The problem for me with having Haskins sit is that it's a waste of a year. They have too many holes to fill (esp on defense now that Vernon and Collins are gone).

I am no giants fan by any stretch, as I think their allegiance to Eli is really holding them back (I would have released Eli and signed Foles). But they got an all pro caliber player while unloading an expensive average player. What makes it even better is that this is a talent rich d lineman draft so the Giants will likely get a better d lineman than Vernon in the first round.

Giants made themselves better.

The problem I have with the Foles scenario, while he's probably better than Eli in this stage of their careers, Eli never had a chance last yr with that AWFUL OL. I'm not an Eli apologist by any stretch of the imagination, but consider this. Zeitler allowed 11 QB pressures all of last yr. Omameh and Jamon Brown combined for 39 QB pressures! That's not counting Chad Wheeler and Flowers. Eli was scared for his life. Even with Brown being an upgrade over Omameh, the offense looked MUCH better.

With all that said I'd have been good with cutting Eli, but to me, the guy I'd prefer is Bridgewater. Yes, he's unproven and been injured, but he'd be a 1 to 2 yr commitment at the most and you could get him cheap and his upside is big (and he's familiar with Shurmur from their time in MN) Foles would have been as expensive as Eli and been a longer commitment and this past couple late season runs aside, I'm not sold on him.

 

[Waquoit]

Huh? The player they traded is an elite offensive guard by any metric. To think Corbett can step in and be as effective as Zeitler is a stretch. And they addressed an area of need by trading for a player who likely would have been a cap casualty, makes a ton of money, and isn’t nearly as valuable as Zeitler as a football player.

That’s not a belicheck move, that’s the opposite of a belicheck move.

It appears Dorsey doesn't want to overpay for a guard. That's Belichickean. And I read one analyst question whether anyone would want Zeitler at his salary. When he drafted Corbett last year the move was questioned because they already were set there. Now we see why. Dorsey thinks Corbett is ready to play, that's good enough for me. Everyone is looking for an edge rusher and the Browns got one.

 

[huskysupporter]

It appears Dorsey doesn't want to overpay for a guard. That's Belichickean. And I read one analyst question whether anyone would want Zeitler at his salary. When he drafted Corbett last year the more was questioned because they already were set there. Now we see why. Dorsey thinks Corbett is ready to play, that's good enough for me. Everyone is looking for an edge rusher and the Browns got one.

Every team has an edge rusher, doesn’t mean you overpay. If Zeitler was a free agent he would get far more than his current cap number. Vernon would get far less.

And where do you get Belicheck didn’t want to spend big money on a guard? Does Logan Mankins ring a bell?

 

[UConnSean]

Does it bother anyone else when fans say "I want to trade back?" Someone has to want to trade up to be able to trade back, tell me who you would take at 6.

Teams trade up into the front of the first round a lot...just last year both Darnold and Allen were taken by teams who traded up to those positions

 

[outlaw]

I’m not sure if it’s just me, but I don’t really want anything to do with Rosen.

not just you. probably worth a flyer if we can snag him for a 3rd rounder, though

 

[intlzncster]

Teams trade up into the front of the first round a lot...just last year both Darnold and Allen were taken by teams who traded up to those positions

If the QBs are there, it'll get done. If not, it's a lot harder.

 

[navery12]

Well that's the hope, right. So if Murray and Haskins go in the top 5, then that leaves Bosa, Allen, Williams. If for some reason one of them falls for whatever reason, the Giants would benefit.

The problem for me with having Haskins sit is that it's a waste of a year. They have too many holes to fill (esp on defense now that Vernon and Collins are gone).

For me, not at all. I want Haskins to drop to 6 so the Giants take him and have their franchise QB. Can't call it a waste of a year if you're getting your franchise QB