OT: Geno Rips His Team

[joober jones]

But what if Geno coached Babe Ruth. How good a basketball player would he be?

Babe Ruth would've been brutal in the old NBL. Had it happened and I weren't born in 1974, I'd have paid top dollar to see it.

 

[nomar]

What? Thats just absurd. To begin with, we had an equal share of early departures throughout the 90s and 00s. Too many to list actually. You think we “lucked out” because we had older players or lesser players that stayed until graduation? We weren’t Bucknell. Take a look at how many guys we had in the NBA (most of them early entrants). We flipping led all of college basketball at one point. For years we had more guys in the league than any other school. Not sure how you measure “better recruiters,” but it needs some serious calibrating. If you meant to suggest that he was better at evaluating and developing talent...we couldn’t agree more. Aye yae yae.

And John Wooden couldn’t be John Wooden today. That’s a crazy post

To be clear, I was talking about 2011 and 2014. Look at those rosters. We had the perfect blend of talent and veterans. That's why we won. If Kemba and Shabazz were 6'6" and we'd have been fortunate enough to get them, they would've been gone after their sophomore years. In other years, we didn't have good upperclassmen, because of the turnover. Caron etc. And that hurt, just like it hurts UK and Duke these days. Nothing beats a veteran guard.

Calapari, Coach K, Williams, Donovan and Self were better recruiters. Not better coaches, but better recruiters. Developing a guy like Hilton Armstrong into a pro makes JC a great developer, not a great recruiter. Calhoun got killed here his last 6-7 years for not doing well enough on the recruiting trail. JC did have a knack of identifying talent (Emeka, Boone, Lamb) but there's an element of luck to that. Gordon was a consolation prize. We wanted Doron, not Jeremy. Fox was the choice over Emeka. Etc.

 

[Sonova]

I don’t know where to begin to disagree so I won’t. You do realize that your definition of good recruiters is synonymous with being at Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UNC and (even Florida) right? Bill Guthridge got McDs at Carolina.

Yeah, Calhoun got “lucky” for 30 years. Luck is always a part of recruiting but it’s crazy to suggest that he was the beneficiary of excessive luck for that long.

Last thing - the “Calhoun got killed here” argument is pathetic by all who make it. A message board being “angry” in the midst of 2 FFs, a Sweet 16, a Final 8 and a National Championship doesn’t lend much creadence to any argument

 

[Stinger92860]

In all seriousness, what does that have to do with anything?

UConn women’s basketball doesn’t translate to the real world.

I guess the sarcastic coach bouncing between killing the fanbase and then saying their should get their money back is entertaining to a degree - but there isn’t anything to be learned or copied.

They generate a profit and positive cash flow for the university. That should be copied. And the positive press, but besides that, your right, they bring nothing to the table.

 

[whaler11]

They generate a profit and positive cash flow for the university. That should be copied. And the positive press, but besides that, your right, they bring nothing to the table.

I didn’t say they bring nothing to the table and they don’t actually run at a surplus - but other than that you nailed it.

 

[nomar]

I don’t know where to begin to disagree so I won’t. You do realize that your definition of good recruiters is synonymous with being at Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, UNC and (even Florida) right? Bill Guthridge got McDs at Carolina.

Yeah, Calhoun got “lucky” for 30 years. Luck is always a part of recruiting but it’s crazy to suggest that he was the beneficiary of excessive luck for that long.

Last thing - the “Calhoun got killed here” argument is pathetic by all who make it. A message board being “angry” in the midst of 2 FFs, a Sweet 16, a Final 8 and a National Championship doesn’t lend much creadence to any argument

You are either negligently or purposely misreading what I wrote.

I just said I was referring to 2011 and 2014. Not sure how you missed that. I also didn't suggest, let alone say, that Calhoun won because he was lucky. Don't be daft. He was an incredible coach, in all regards. Don't pretend I'm not giving him his due with some BS strawman argument. I've never said a bad word about Calhoun in 18 years of posting here. Pointing out he's not as good a recruiter as Calipari doesn't make me some JC hater.

Your "synonymous" argument is ridiculous. Guthridge rode coattails; he wasn't a great recruiter. Neither was Doherty. Gillespie was nothing special, although I think recruiting was the least of his problems. Donovan made UF what it is. Are you disputing that the guys I named were great recruiters?

Last thing - that wasn't an argument. It was a fact. It wasn't cool to see but it happened.

Not sure who peed in your Cheerios this morning but you're comin' in real hot.

 

[HuskyNan]

Starting PG Crystal Dangerfield sat becuase she has shin splints.
Leading scorer Katie Lou Samuelson sat because she’s been beat to (edited) all season and hurt her ankle in the game.
Starting forward Gabby Williams sat after a hard fall when she landed on her hip, aggravating a nagging hip injury.
Starting guard Kia Nurse played 29 minutes, starting forward Napheesa Collier played 33.

Geno sat some of his starters because he had to. The team is beat up because the starters are playing too many minutes. Geno needs to get the subs up to speed. He’d tried everything else but the tossing them into the fire, so he gave it a shot. He’d run out of other options.

By the way, @whaler11 , UConn had the #1 SOS until the team starting playing the teams in the crappy AAC conference. Mostly on the road.
Massey Ratings - CBW

 

[Sonova]

You are either negligently or purposely misreading what I wrote.

I just said I was referring to 2011 and 2014. Not sure how you missed that. I also didn't suggest, let alone say, that Calhoun won because he was lucky. Don't be daft. He was an incredible coach, in all regards. Don't pretend I'm not giving him his due with some BS strawman argument. I've never said a bad word about Calhoun in 18 years of posting here. Pointing out he's not as good a recruiter as Calipari doesn't make me some JC hater.

Your "synonymous" argument is ridiculous. Guthridge rode coattails; he wasn't a great recruiter. Neither was Doherty. Gillespie was nothing special, although I think recruiting was the least of his problems. Donovan made UF what it is. Are you disputing that the guys I named were great recruiters?

Last thing - that wasn't an argument. It was a fact. It wasn't cool to see but it happened.

Not sure who peed in your Cheerios this morning but you're comin' in real hot.

Let’s start with the synonymous argument...

A monkey has a chance to recruit well at those schools. Your point about Doherty not being a good recruiter is exactly the point. That “not great recruiter,” coming off an 8-20 season, brought in McCants, Felton, and May. The guys that would win a championship for Roy Williams a couple of years later. How’d he do it? Because he was at Carolina not because he was a great recruiter. Kansas, Kentucky, Duke have ALWAYS gotten good players regardless of who was coaching. That they can generally get their first choices doesn’t make their coaches “better recruiters”. And because other schools have backup plans doesn't make them “luckier”than anyone else

No, of course I’m not going to argue that those Hall of Fame coaches aren’t good recruiters. Your assertion was that they were better recruiters than JC. Says who? You? The Boneyard? Don’t confuse the Boneyard’s opinions with actual facts because the fact is that the Boneyard was wrong when it’s bitched about Kemba (who was a borderline 5 star btw) and wrong when it bitched about getting the wrong Lamb. The Boneyard bitched about recruiting in the midst of one of the most successful periods in UConn history. So what’s remotely credible about that argument? That the recruits’ rankings weren’t high enough? Again, I’ll take on-court results over high school player rankings any time to judge who can really recruit and the guy that put more guys into the NBA and who got that talent to come to Storrs Connecticut just might be the best recruiter of them all.

 

[whaler11]

Starting PG Crystal Dangerfield sat becuase she has shin splints.
Leading scorer Katie Lou Samuelson sat because she’s been beat to (edited) all season and hurt her ankle in the game.
Starting forward Gabby Williams sat after a hard fall when she landed on her hip, aggravating a nagging hip injury.
Starting guard Kia Nurse played 29 minutes, starting forward Napheesa Collier played 33.

Geno sat some of his starters because he had to. The team is beat up because the starters are playing too many minutes. Geno needs to get the subs up to speed. He’d tried everything else but the tossing them into the fire, so he gave it a shot. He’d run out of other options.

By the way, @whaler11 , UConn had the #1 SOS until the team starting playing the teams in the crappy AAC conference. Mostly on the road.
Massey Ratings - CBW

His accomplishments are legendary.

He did it in a small pond.

Probably would have been successful in the bigtime, but we’ll never know.

None of any of that changes the actual topic here. What he did last night isn’t repeatable in men’s college basketball.

Did you enjoy when those claiming the opposite clammed up because they rushed in to opine with no knowledge of what actually happened?

I like the guy - but the arguments that his success would translate are tortured. Anson Dorrance would be successful in the EPL is where the logic would take you.

 

[Sea Goat]

At first blush, you say Geno's outrage at his team is ridiculous. He is the most upset 17-0 coach in history right?

Don't worry, Geno knows what he is doing. He is preparing to for basketball in March, not golf. The contrast is is stunning. Ollie has an inconsistent, mediocre team in a $#!t conference and he is still coaching by slogan. The contrast makes clear the difference between a HOF coach with over a 1000 wins and an able assistant coach and great guy who is just not a head coach. Geno has a strategy and his team will be razor sharp in March. Ollie is lost and already thinking about March tee times in Fla.

 

[Waquoit]

I know one thing that could transfer from the women's game. It seems every starter on Geno's team can make lay-ups with their off hand. We missed two bunnies today because the guys couldn't.

 

[HuskyNan]

Probably would have been successful in the bigtime, but we’ll never know.

You mean something like the Olympics? The guy coached two teams to gold medals.

 

[whaler11]

You mean something like the Olympics? The guy coached two teams to gold medals.

You are joking right?

Any half sentient being can coach the US women’s basketball team to a gold medal. Nobody thinks Chuck Daly’s greatness is tied to the Dream Team.

Calhoun went against more coaching talent in a single Big East Tournament than Geno has in his entire career. And that group of coaches couldn’t coach against the best the NBA had to offer then or now.

He is dominant and great at what he does.

It’s Off-Broadway. That’s the reality. If you want to compare him to coaches from other sports you have to acknowledge that or your arguments are just based on emotions.

 

[freescooter]

I’m sort of of the opinion that great athletes and great coaches would do it in any era. Coaches in particular tend to be leaders in their embrace of new technologies and practices so I have no doubt that a John Wooden would be ahead of the curve in embracing 1-done, and most other things. Knute Rockne would adapt to the iPhone way before most coaches and Babe Ruth and Ted Williams would love to have video of opposing pitchers as opposed to written scouting reports. And they would adapt to the new science of training just as they did to the old. One time I.heard Jack Niclaus speak about golfers and an old timer in the audience asked him if Bob Jones or Walter Hagen could compete on the “modern” tour. He said he had no doubt both would be stars. The pointed out what they did with wood shafts, balls that flew 85% of the distance of pro balls then in use and then he said they were both fierce competitor. That to me suggests that they would adapt pretty well.

 

[whaler11]

You mean something like the Olympics? The guy coached two teams to gold medals.

Do you believe that Anson Dorrance is a better coach than Geno?

 

[whaler11]

I’m sort of of the opinion that great athletes and great coaches would do it in any era. Coaches in particular tend to be leaders in their embrace of new technologies and practices so I have no doubt that a John Wooden would be ahead of the curve in embracing 1-done, and most other things. Knute Rockne would adapt to the iPhone way before most coaches and Babe Ruth and Ted Williams would love to have video of opposing pitchers as opposed to written scouting reports. And they would adapt to the new science of training just as they did to the old. One time I.heard Jack Niclaus speak about golfers and an old timer in the audience asked him if Bob Jones or Walter Hagen could compete on the “modern” tour. He said he had no doubt both would be stars. The pointed out what they did with wood shafts, balls that flew 85% of the distance of pro balls then in use and then he said they were both fierce competitor. That to me suggests that they would adapt pretty well.

John Wooden would be on the FBI list.

UCLA was more crooked than Louisville.

The rest is nice that you want to believe but doesn’t hold up to any scrutiny and flies in the complete face of the historical record.

 

[HuskyNan]

Do you believe that Anson Dorrance is a better coach than Geno?

That is a straw man. Your comment was:

Probably would have been successful in the bigtime, but we’ll never know.

The Olympics are big time.

You really have a bug up your butt about this, don't you? 27 posts in this thread.

 

[whaler11]

That is a straw man. Your comment was:

The Olympics are big time.

You really have a bug up your butt about this, don't you? 27 posts in this thread.

The Olympics aren’t a big time collection of basketball coaching talent. The worst NBA coach would be the second best coach in the men’s tournament at worst.

It means even less because the coaches spend little time with the teams and the players are provided by citizenship.

I’m sorry that my posts about how Babe Ruth would fare today are upsetting to you.

BTW you didn’t answer the Dorrance question for an a couple of obvious reasons.

1. His accomplishments and record are BETTER than Geno’s
2. He coached the North Carolina’s men’s team and they were good but not great.
3. The gap in basketball between the coaching talent is even greater than soccer.

I know the fans of the women’s team want to burn anyone at the stake that doesn’t bow down to Geno being the King of the world.

It’s off-broadway. Sorry, not Sorry.

 

[whaler11]

Larry Kehres went 332-24-3 and won 11 National Championships at Mount Union.

By what I’ve read here he is a better coach then Geno.

He’s so good his son took over and won back to back national championships.

 

[Paesano]

Larry Kehres went 332-24-3 and won 11 National Championships at Mount Union.

By what I’ve read here he is a better coach then Geno.

He’s so good his son took over and won back to back national championships.

Did you see how the team performed in their last game? Did you see how the star freshman stepped up? Seriously, you are wicked obtuse. Nothing that you have said in this thread is correct. Geno did not play the bench to embarrass them or any other such reason. He did it because he needs them to play. When they don't perform, he needs to say what he needs to say to get them to perform up to their potential. He has succeeded in that over and over again for 30 years and has 11 national championships to show for it. And there isn't a huge coaching divide. Nor is their a huge talent advantage. Geno beat Pat Summitt head to head many times. The ND coach is very good. The Stanford coach has won championships and gold medals in the Olympics. There have been, and still are, several excellent coaches he competes with. He is just better. And he rarely has the most talent, regardless of what you have read or heard. Look at the talent that Tennessee and Texas have amassed. So he has legit competition on the coaching level and talent level. He is just better. If you listen to him and you don't see why, you simply don't understand leadership.

 

[whaler11]

Did you see how the team performed in their last game? Did you see how the star freshman stepped up? Seriously, you are wicked obtuse. Nothing that you have said in this thread is correct. Geno did not play the bench to embarrass them or any other such reason. He did it because he needs them to play. When they don't perform, he needs to say what he needs to say to get them to perform up to their potential. He has succeeded in that over and over again for 30 years and has 11 national championships to show for it. And there isn't a huge coaching divide. Nor is their a huge talent advantage. Geno beat Pat Summitt head to head many times. The ND coach is very good. The Stanford coach has won championships and gold medals in the Olympics. There have been, and still are, several excellent coaches he competes with. He is just better. And he rarely has the most talent, regardless of what you have read or heard. Look at the talent that Tennessee and Texas have amassed. So he has legit competition on the coaching level and talent level. He is just better. If you listen to him and you don't see why, you simply don't understand leadership.

Ok guy.

Embarrassing them was exactly how he got what he wanted.

I won’t even dignify the rest because it boils down to Geno is the best cuz I worship him and you are wicked obtuse if you disagree.

It’s a great off-broadway show. It’s not Hamilton.