OT: Geno Rips His Team

[Waquoit]

What he did in last night’s game can’t be done in men’s college basketball - so comparing the two is stupid.

Except when it has, you mean. You were just given two examples by HOF coaches.

 

[whaler11]

No one is arguing Geno is a nice guy to his players when he is trying to win. It isn't about the players it's about the fans...fragile fans wouldn't be able to handle it in the men's game. Fans would call the coach a bully this isn't about Geno this is about you as a fan.

That doesnt make a single whit of sense.

 

[Deepster]

I think this was an excellent move by Geno. Do you think there's a chance he could coach both teams at the same time? Imagine that!? Winning BOTH titles in the SAME season!?!?

 

[whaler11]

Except when it has, you mean. You were just given two examples by HOF coaches.

I was not given an example of what Geno did last night. You won’t find one either.

 

[jibsey]

We had all watched Calhoun in the first 30 seconds of a game call a timeout, pull a player, and rip them a new _____ in front of 15,00 fans. Announcers had a great time with this poking fun while explaining why he did it, but don’t for a second think that the other players on the team didn’t get the message. That could be them and no one wants to be called out. Of course the team circumstances and talent levels are different.

 

[whaler11]

I'm talking about the implied suggestion by the original post. It would be valid for the men on a few occasions. When the team has nothing, sit them all and make them watch.

That’s the issue. What’s implied in the OP isn’t what happened.

 

[BlueDogs]

I have heard enough from Geno interviews and what other players have said about how he operates to appreciate he is uniquely good at what he does. He's exacting, has total command of what he wants done, can take concepts and makes them simple to understand, and enforces his will and standards every second in practice, in game and otherwise. He's the best at what he does. KO is nowhere near that level of coaching mastery.

 

[whaler11]

We had all watched Calhoun in the first 30 seconds of a game call a timeout, pull a player, and rip them a new _____ in front of 15,00 fans. Announcers had a great time with this poking fun while explaining why he did it, but don’t for a second think that the other players on the team didn’t get the message. That could be them and no one wants to be called out. Of course the team circumstances and talent levels are different.

Ok now go figure out what Geno actually did last night.

 

[whaler11]

I assume that y’all now realize you were wrong.

Apology accepted.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Let me know the game where Calhoun benched his entire starting five and then came to the press conference and told the media the fans should get a refund while winning a conference game by 20. You’d get run off the floor attempting that stuff in the Big East.

Geno’s record is amazing - but it’s not run up against the best.

The amount of people in the fanbase who think Geno and Calhoun had the same challenges might be the single worst thing about being a UConn fan.

It’s a complete disconnect from reality. Unless you think the guy who coaches Wisconsin Whitewater (or whichever school wins D-III every year) is the same as Nick Saban. Or Bill Holowaty is the same as Augie Garrido. Bill Hurley is Phil Jackson.

But instead of dealing with the fact that these are totally different levels of sports and what works doesn’t directly translate - just scream misogyny.

Calhoun pulled the whole starting lineup and sat them for at least 5 minutes in a game once that I can remember. What was the guard from Chicago that failed out or went Juco after his sophomore year? He had been suspended once for academics with Okwandu. I can't remember his name, but he played at least 10 minutes that game because Calhoun was furious with the starters.

If I had more time this morning I would hunt down this game.

 

[whaler11]

Calhoun pulled the whole starting lineup and sat them for at least 5 minutes in a game once that I can remember. What was the guard from Chicago that failed out or went Juco after his sophomore year? He had been suspended once for academics with Okwandu. I can't remember his name, but he played at least 10 minutes that game because Calhoun was furious with the starters.

If I had more time this morning I would hunt down this game.

That’s not what Geno did.

He sat the starters to embarrass the backups.

Not the other way around.

 

[CTMike]

I’m pretty sure if Nova sat their starting five tomorrow we’d still find a way to lose.

 

[Guapo]

In all seriousness, Geno is without a doubt one of the great basketball minds and motivators of talent ever.

If Ollie hasn't ventured down the hall to pick his brain on how to, at least, get the most out of your team - or if Geno hasn't offered - then shame on them.

 

[Huskybass]

Calhoun pulled the whole starting lineup and sat them for at least 5 minutes in a game once that I can remember. What was the guard from Chicago that failed out or went Juco after his sophomore year? He had been suspended once for academics with Okwandu. I can't remember his name, but he played at least 10 minutes that game because Calhoun was furious with the starters.

If I had more time this morning I would hunt down this game.

I believe you are referring to Darius Smith.

 

[freescooter]

Geno gets the best out of his players night in night out. Whether it’s a midsmatch or a highly ranked opponent they always play hard. Part of it is that they are always under pressure from the staff. And you can say it is a different universe and to some degree it is but you ignore the fact that Geno basically created that universe.

 

[whaler11]

Geno gets the best out of his players night in night out. Whether it’s a midsmatch or a highly ranked opponent they always play hard. Part of it is that they are always under pressure from the staff. And you can say it is a different universe and to some degree it is but you ignore the fact that Geno basically created that universe.

He did create it. Someplace it could be created.

He could not create it in the men’s game. Nobody could.

Jack Cochran created it in Connecticut High School football. He couldn’t do it in Georgia or Texas or college or anywhere else.

 

[nomar]

Let me know the game where Calhoun benched his entire starting five and then came to the press conference and told the media the fans should get a refund while winning a conference game by 20. You’d get run off the floor attempting that stuff in the Big East.

Geno’s record is amazing - but it’s not run up against the best.

The amount of people in the fanbase who think Geno and Calhoun had the same challenges might be the single worst thing about being a UConn fan.

It’s a complete disconnect from reality. Unless you think the guy who coaches Wisconsin Whitewater (or whichever school wins D-III every year) is the same as Nick Saban. Or Bill Holowaty is the same as Augie Garrido. Bill Hurley is Phil Jackson.

But instead of dealing with the fact that these are totally different levels of sports and what works doesn’t directly translate - just scream misogyny.

I'm not a follower of the women's team. I think 90% of the games I've watched have been title games. But Geno Auriemma is one of the top-10 coaches of any American sport. He's up there with Wooden, Saban, Auerbach, whoever. He is DOMINATING his sport. Summitt was a legend; he has completely blown past her.

Your comparisons involve different levels, not different genders or sports. Auriemma competes against the best in his sport just like Saban or Garrido. And he destroys them.

I love Jim Calhoun. What he did was totally incredible. But Auriemma also built a program from scratch and took it into the stratosphere. UConn is beyond lucky to have had both of them. (Not to knock Calhoun, at all, but we lucked out by getting 3* and 4* guys who stayed 3 or 4 years. He beat better recruiters because they had more turnover.)

I don't think this is a case of misogyny on your part, I just think it's a failure to properly recognize Auriemma's accomplishments. If winning in the women's game was so easy, you'd think someone besides UConn could do it more than once in a blue moon.

I take the point about the women's game being different but I think someone could dominate the men's game the way Wooden used to. The fact that nobody's done it in 40 years doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

[whaler11]

I'm not a follower of the women's team. I think 90% of the games I've watched have been title games. But Geno Auriemma is one of the top-10 coaches of any American sport. He's up there with Wooden, Saban, Auerbach, whoever. He is DOMINATING his sport. Summitt was a legend; he has completely blown past her.

Your comparisons involve different levels, not different genders or sports. Auriemma competes against the best in his sport just like Saban or Garrido. And he destroys them.

I love Jim Calhoun. What he did was totally incredible. But Auriemma also built a program from scratch and took it into the stratosphere. UConn is beyond lucky to have had both of them. (Not to knock Calhoun, at all, but we lucked out by getting 3* and 4* guys who stayed 3 or 4 years. He beat better recruiters because they had more turnover.)

I don't think this is a case of misogyny on your part, I just think it's a failure to properly recognize Auriemma's accomplishments. If winning in the women's game was so easy, you'd think someone besides UConn could do it more than once in a blue moon.

I take the point about the women's game being different but I think someone could dominate the men's game the way Wooden used to. The fact that nobody's done it in 40 years doesn't mean it can't be done.

His accomplishments are in the top 10 but when you don’t compete with the best it’s not the same.

If Bonds had never played MLB and hit 2,500 home runs in the Atlantic League it’s quite an accomplishment but not against the best.

You don’t know how Geno would stack up against the best because he never got anywhere near them.

By this logic Dorrance is a top 10 coach. How many hundreds if not thousands of soccer coaches in Europe are better?

 

[Danzz]

He has been criticizing his reserves for weeks. Enough for a non WBB watcher like me to hear about it.

This was an excuse to let the B team know that they will be called upon and to not rely of the stars to do all the work.

Geno should have played his reserves all season and not together but with starters. They are winning games by 50 points and he continues to play the same 7 or 8 players until the last few minutes. He may need them at some point and if he does they won't be ready to contribute.
UConn may well win another NCC but unlike other years it won't be without major challenges because this years team can be overpowered on the boards.

 

[superjohn]

I can’t wait to see the D-1 men’s boxscore of a game where the coach up big early decided to embarrass his second string by playing them the majority of the game and then spend the postgame tearing them apart.

Do you seriously think men's coaches have never sat their starting 5?

 

[nomar]

His accomplishments are in the top 10 but when you don’t compete with the best it’s not the same.

If Bonds had never played MLB and hit 2,500 home runs in the Atlantic League it’s quite an accomplishment but not against the best.

You don’t know how Geno would stack up against the best because he never got anywhere near them.

By this logic Dorrance is a top 10 coach. How many hundreds if not thousands of soccer coaches in Europe are better?

Well, like I said, to me it's a different sport, not a different level. He's the best women's basketball coach, at any level. I see the arguments for why it's not as impressive as Calhoun winning 4 or Saban winning 6. I just don't think I agree with them. There's really no place up for Auriemma to go within his "sport." He could go to the WNBA, I guess. I have no doubt he'd excel there.

I have some curiosity as to how he'd do in the men's game. I think he would've done well had he gone that route. But it's probably too late now.

Do you consider Michael Phelps an all-time great athlete? I do, even though only a tiny fraction of great athletes are swimmers so he didn't compete against the "best" athletes -- only the best of whose who chose swimming. All you can do is dominate the best competition you can find.

 

[August_West]

Do you consider Michael Phelps an all-time great athlete? I do

me too. Especially when he takes huge bong rips of skunk bud before winning everything in sight.

Impressive to say the least.

 

[whaler11]

Well, like I said, to me it's a different sport, not a different level. He's the best women's basketball coach, at any level. I see the arguments for why it's not as impressive as Calhoun winning 4 or Saban winning 6. I just don't think I agree with them. There's really no place up for Auriemma to go within his "sport." He could go to the WNBA, I guess. I have no doubt he'd excel there.

I have some curiosity as to how he'd do in the men's game. I think he would've done well had he gone that route. But it's probably too late now.

Do you consider Michael Phelps an all-time great athlete? I do, even though only a tiny fraction of great athletes are swimmers so he didn't compete against the "best" athletes -- only the best of whose who chose swimming. All you can do is dominate the best competition you can find.

So you’ve carved out a spot for Geno because women’s basketball is a different sport in your opinion.

Fair enough I guess.

Seems that you should agree with my initial premise which is what he does then has nothing to do with men’s basketball since he is coaching a different sport.

The discussions about athletes is a completely different discussion because of the advancements in what humans are capable of over the last 150 years.

Babe Ruth is a top 10 baseball player to most people. If you dropped 1925 Ruth into the 2017 American League he couldn’t compete.

 

[kcc1442]

What it boils down to is that this is about accountability. Does Geno have luxuries that KO does not? YES. Geno can bench all the starters and still win. But he doesn't win by as much, and there is a slight possibility that an underdog team could knock them off. Geno can call out specific names like he called out Azura and it will be effective because he is a HOF and has built a dynasty. KO would be receiving a phone call the next morning from a players parent telling him that he is going to transfer. (or is a better example having to suspend a player due to a confrontation)

BUT more important than all of that is the post game talk. Where he holds the team accountable for their terrible play. He identifies it. He describes it as it is. He talks about the negatives. He explains how they have been struggling to fix it. He looks and feels pissed off. He looks and speaks as if he expects MUCH better. He goes into detail about work ethic, and passion and grit and being focused. What he doesn't do is hide from it by talking about the few positives of the game. He doesn't embellish on the few hustle plays, or talk about how the kids played for each other, or deflect the negatives. Geno is real in public and private. And that leaves the players knowing what his expectations and standards are. KO may lay into them at practice every once in a while but it's probably awfully confusing after what the kids hear in the presser after a game like Monmouth.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Babe Ruth is a top 10 baseball player to most people. If you dropped 1925 Ruth into the 2017 American League he couldn’t compete.

Not to get sidetracked from another UConn Women/Geno vs. UConn Men/Calhoun debate, but I've often wondered the same thing myself about Ruth.

Let me ask you to clarify your point though.

I think we all know the player pool is much larger with Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier and then the influx of international players to the sport. The players are more athletic due to training and the players are smarter due to scouting.

That said is your point that 1925 Ruth, as he was, wouldn't be able to compete today due to the physical/mental nature of the game, or more so his skills wouldn't translate?

The numbers Ruth was putting up in comparison to his competition were just utterly absurd. More home runs than whole teams, etc. but again the game isn't the same today as then. I feel like his natural skill is hard to discount.

If you have any good links about projecting a player from the 20s, to current day, I'd love to check them out.

Also, at what point in history do you think you could drop a guy in today's game at they'd be the same? Ruth, DiMaggio, Mantle, Jackson, Mattingly, eras for instance?