OT - Duke Freshman opts out | Page 3 | The Boneyard

OT - Duke Freshman opts out

Seems like the basic choices for these student/athletes are coming earlier in their lives, Walker of the UConn women forgo her senior year to go pro for a lot less money. With all the advisors these students have I'm not surprised at the opting out, your seeing it in the all star games as well. When you add the injury protentional along with the Virus impact the optout wheels will continue this trend.
 
superjohn said:
I'm not a fan of kids cutting out on their teammates during the season for the NBA but it's weird you think you can glean how people would treat their jobs/last two weeks based on their posts in this thread.
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What’s hard to understand? If one doesn’t think that it is important for someone ELSE to honor their commitments to people, why in the world would you think they would be willing to honor their commitments?
 
businesslawyer said:
What’s hard to understand? If one doesn’t think that it is important for someone ELSE to honor their commitments to people, why in the world would you think they would be willing to honor their commitments?
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Yeah, but what kind of “commitments” do we think Coach K made to him to lure him to Duke. You have to think it was along the lines of we’ll give you the keys to our team and we will do everything in our power to get you drafted in the highest position if you come here. Wonder where getting benched fit into that commitment.

Coach K was ready to call the season because it was making him look bad. That prob wouldn’t have helped his guys improve draft stock.
 
storrsroars said:
Took a quick look at four mocks that have been updated in the past week. Johnson was projected as going anywhere from 6-11, with a composite of 8. Far from a lottery pick but a nice monied neighborhood.

For comparison, Bouk was projected 9-20, with a composite of 15.

The difference between 8 and 15 over the course of a rookie contract is in the neighborhood of $10 mill.

I mention Bouk here as I'm wondering if Johnson's decision may actually influence Bouk's return as Bouk's stock can only rise if he returns while Johnson's falls.

And as far as quitting, why hasn't a guy like Ziaire Williams done so? Stanford basically has no shot at making the 2nd weekend, and maybe not even the first. Williams is a likely top 7 pick. Maybe it's that Stanford education ;-)
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The first 14 picks are lottery picks
 
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businesslawyer said:
What’s hard to understand? If one doesn’t think that it is important for someone ELSE to honor their commitments to people, why in the world would you think they would be willing to honor their commitments?
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The unintentional irony here is strong. College coaches don't honor their commitments/contracts all the time so I couldn't agree more, why should we expect the players on their teams to do the same?
 
Greathusky said:
Bouknight could have easily done this too. We are blessed!
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Except...
We have a shot at something with Bouknight. Duke is largely a train-wreck this year.

Bouknight has been fully engaged with the program, ever since a minor incident early last season.

Bouknight also has the opportunity to raise his draft stock if he goes on a run to end the season.
 
huskyfan224 said:
The first 14 picks are lottery picks
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Semantics. The first 4 are the actual lottery picks. Picks 5-14 would go in pretty much the same order of W-L record as they would've w/o the lottery. What the lottery does is simply ensure that the worst team picks no worse than #5.
 
navery12 said:
The unintentional irony here is strong. College coaches don't honor their commitments/contracts all the time so I couldn't agree more, why should we expect the players on their teams to do the same?
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Coaches and players leave early at the end of their season- that’s been happening for decades. Leaving in the middle of the season is quitting. You are hanging your teammates out to dry.
 
storrsroars said:
Semantics. The first 4 are the actual lottery picks. Picks 5-14 would go in pretty much the same order of W-L record as they would've w/o the lottery. What the lottery does is simply ensure that the worst team picks no worse than #5.
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Except that's not true. In 2020 the #7 and 8 teams picked 3rd and 4th. In 2019 the #7 team moved up to the 1st pick, #8 to 2nd, and #11 to 4th pick
 
navery12 said:
Except that's not true. In 2020 the #7 and 8 teams picked 3rd and 4th. In 2019 the #7 team moved up to the 1st pick, #8 to 2nd, and #11 to 4th pick
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Right, so the top 4 positions are where they use the tumbler to determine which balls fall out. Starting with pick 5, it's simply W-L record that determines order. Thus, the actual "lottery" is simply #1-#4.
 
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storrsroars said:
Right, so the top 4 positions are where they use the tumbler to determine which balls fall out. Starting with pick 5, it's simply W-L record that determines order. Thus, the actual "lottery" is simply #1-#4.
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I have no idea what you're trying to argue right now. When people say someone is a lottery pick they mean top 14, not top 4. Because the top 14 picks are the ones involved in the lottery even if their chances are small for half the teams
 
BGesus4 said:
Yeah, but what kind of “commitments” do we think Coach K made to him to lure him to Duke. You have to think it was along the lines of we’ll give you the keys to our team and we will do everything in our power to get you drafted in the highest position if you come here. Wonder where getting benched fit into that commitment.

Coach K was ready to call the season because it was making him look bad. That prob wouldn’t have helped his guys improve draft stock.
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He believed coming there that he was promised that no matter how he performed he'd be the key to the team? I didn't realize that. I'll call him a WHAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE. Goodness forbid he accept a lesser rule for a whole three more weeks.
 
navery12 said:
The unintentional irony here is strong. College coaches don't honor their commitments/contracts all the time so I couldn't agree more, why should we expect the players on their teams to do the same?
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The last time you saw a college basketball coach quit in the middle of a season to take another job was exactly when? It's extremely rare.

Or because college football plays by no rules whatsoever, that means that a college basketball player doesn't have to honor his commitments?

(FWIW, I am clearly on the record that it's absurd and reprehensible that the NCAA allows a member institution to hire a coach under contract to someone else while his season is still ongoing. But quitting at the end of the season -- the young man is allowed to do that. Just like a coach is.)
 
navery12 said:
I have no idea what you're trying to argue right now. When people say someone is a lottery pick they mean top 14, not top 4. Because the top 14 picks are the ones involved in the lottery even if their chances are small for half the teams
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I'm arguing that while the top 14 teams are involved in the lottery, in reality, the top 14 players aren't. Once the top 4 guys are picked, things pretty much go rock-chalk. IOW, no matter which teams pick 1-4, Jalen Johnson's odds of being one of those 4 picks is still nil. He'll go where he's projected to go.
 
storrsroars said:
I'm arguing that while the top 14 teams are involved in the lottery, in reality, the top 14 players aren't. Once the top 4 guys are picked, things pretty much go rock-chalk. IOW, no matter which teams pick 1-4, Jalen Johnson's odds of being one of those 4 picks is still nil. He'll go where he's projected to go.
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This is just such a strange hill to die on, the top 14 picks are all called lottery picks. You can spin and twist all these words however you like but when someone says "likely lottery pick Jalen Johnson" they don't mean top 4
 
businesslawyer said:
The last time you saw a college basketball coach quit in the middle of a season to take another job was exactly when? It's extremely rare.

Or because college football plays by no rules whatsoever, that means that a college basketball player doesn't have to honor his commitments?

(FWIW, I am clearly on the record that it's absurd and reprehensible that the NCAA allows a member institution to hire a coach under contract to someone else while his season is still ongoing. But quitting at the end of the season -- the young man is allowed to do that. Just like a coach is.)
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It was college football, but a few months ago

letsgopeay.com

Scotty Walden named APSU's 21st head football coach - Austin Peay State University Athletics

Innovative and energetic are two words Austin Peay Director of Athletics Gerald Harrison used to describe his hiring of Scotty Walden as the university's 21st head
letsgopeay.com letsgopeay.com
 
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Personally, I see the whole leaving your college team early to be prepared for the pros thing a morally gray area. Certainly you made a commitment to your university, and they are "paying" you in the form of a scholarship. At the same time I think it's almost impossible for most of us to fathom the decisions these kids are making. Many of them come from impoverished homes where their families are rubbing two sticks together just to get by. They have this opportunity to make enough money to take care of their families for the rest of their lives, and they don't want to screw that up.

It's not as simple as saying "they reneged on a commitment they made to the university and their teammates." Honestly, most of their teammates, having come from a similar background, probably understand and support them. At the end of the day you have to do what's best for you and to take care of your family. If walking away from a college sport part way through the season guarantees you won't get hurt and spoil the opportunity to ensure your family never needs to worry about going hungry again would you do it? It would certainly be a tough decision.
 
navery12 said:
This is just such a strange hill to die on, the top 14 picks are all called lottery picks. You can spin and twist all these words however you like but when someone says "likely lottery pick Jalen Johnson" they don't mean top 4
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This board is so strange, we've got one guy white knighting college coaches while ripping teenagers and another guy trying to argue only the top 4 picks are lottery picks.
 
navery12 said:
This is just such a strange hill to die on, the top 14 picks are all called lottery picks. You can spin and twist all these words however you like but when someone says "likely lottery pick Jalen Johnson" they don't mean top 4
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People are dumb. I'd love to see Jordan Peterson explain this, lol.
 
businesslawyer said:
The last time you saw a college basketball coach quit in the middle of a season to take another job was exactly when? It's extremely rare.

Or because college football plays by no rules whatsoever, that means that a college basketball player doesn't have to honor his commitments?

(FWIW, I am clearly on the record that it's absurd and reprehensible that the NCAA allows a member institution to hire a coach under contract to someone else while his season is still ongoing. But quitting at the end of the season -- the young man is allowed to do that. Just like a coach is.)
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Wait, so every time a coach changes jobs have they quit on all the kids they’ve recruited to come to their previous school?
 
storrsroars said:
I'm arguing that while the top 14 teams are involved in the lottery, in reality, the top 14 players aren't. Once the top 4 guys are picked, things pretty much go rock-chalk. IOW, no matter which teams pick 1-4, Jalen Johnson's odds of being one of those 4 picks is still nil. He'll go where he's projected to go.
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This is just so bizarre. The lottery picks are the 14 teams that don't make the playoffs. They all get ping pong balls in the lottery, and have a chance at the #1 pick. What is even happening here?
 
I mean it is considered quitting on your team but me personally as a fan would not hold it against any college player that looked out for their NBA career by opting out. Good luck to Jalen at the next level
 
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Collecting a bunch of one-and-dones appears to be an increasingly problematic, and unsuccessful strategy. This is tragic.
 
7774 said:
This is just so bizarre. The lottery picks are the 14 teams that don't make the playoffs. They all get ping pong balls in the lottery, and have a chance at the #1 pick. What is even happening here?
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What is happening is that there are only 4 surprises. Once the first four balls are picked, the other 10 teams know exactly where they'll be picking. So, I'm positing that it's not a true lottery for those 10 teams.

Is it a strange hill to die on? Sure. But I'm happy to do so. I love to argue.
 
storrsroars said:
What is happening is that there are only 4 surprises. Once the first four balls are picked, the other 10 teams know exactly where they'll be picking. So, I'm positing that it's not a true lottery for those 10 teams.

Is it a strange hill to die on? Sure. But I'm happy to do so. I love to argue.
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That’s a lot of words to type when “I was mistaken” would’ve sufficed.
 
storrsroars said:
Took a quick look at four mocks that have been updated in the past week. Johnson was projected as going anywhere from 6-11, with a composite of 8. Far from a lottery pick but a nice monied neighborhood.

For comparison, Bouk was projected 9-20, with a composite of 15.

The difference between 8 and 15 over the course of a rookie contract is in the neighborhood of $10 mill.

I mention Bouk here as I'm wondering if Johnson's decision may actually influence Bouk's return as Bouk's stock can only rise if he returns while Johnson's falls.

And as far as quitting, why hasn't a guy like Ziaire Williams done so? Stanford basically has no shot at making the 2nd weekend, and maybe not even the first. Williams is a likely top 7 pick. Maybe it's that Stanford education ;-)
Expand ...

The NBA Draft lottery is 14 teams. So picks 1-14 are lottery picks. If he's from 6-11, then he's a lottery pick.

As for the kid, I'm done judging people for stuff like this. It's unfair to them. It's his life. I hope he apologized to his teammates and staff. I hope they accepted that apology.
 
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