OT - Duke Freshman opts out

[storrsroars]

I have no idea what you're trying to argue right now. When people say someone is a lottery pick they mean top 14, not top 4. Because the top 14 picks are the ones involved in the lottery even if their chances are small for half the teams

I'm arguing that while the top 14 teams are involved in the lottery, in reality, the top 14 players aren't. Once the top 4 guys are picked, things pretty much go rock-chalk. IOW, no matter which teams pick 1-4, Jalen Johnson's odds of being one of those 4 picks is still nil. He'll go where he's projected to go.

 

[navery12]

I'm arguing that while the top 14 teams are involved in the lottery, in reality, the top 14 players aren't. Once the top 4 guys are picked, things pretty much go rock-chalk. IOW, no matter which teams pick 1-4, Jalen Johnson's odds of being one of those 4 picks is still nil. He'll go where he's projected to go.

This is just such a strange hill to die on, the top 14 picks are all called lottery picks. You can spin and twist all these words however you like but when someone says "likely lottery pick Jalen Johnson" they don't mean top 4

 

[navery12]

The last time you saw a college basketball coach quit in the middle of a season to take another job was exactly when? It's extremely rare.

Or because college football plays by no rules whatsoever, that means that a college basketball player doesn't have to honor his commitments?

(FWIW, I am clearly on the record that it's absurd and reprehensible that the NCAA allows a member institution to hire a coach under contract to someone else while his season is still ongoing. But quitting at the end of the season -- the young man is allowed to do that. Just like a coach is.)

It was college football, but a few months ago

Scotty Walden named APSU's 21st head football coach - Austin Peay State University Athletics

Innovative and energetic are two words Austin Peay Director of Athletics Gerald Harrison used to describe his hiring of Scotty Walden as the university's 21st head

letsgopeay.com

 

[Greedo]

Personally, I see the whole leaving your college team early to be prepared for the pros thing a morally gray area. Certainly you made a commitment to your university, and they are "paying" you in the form of a scholarship. At the same time I think it's almost impossible for most of us to fathom the decisions these kids are making. Many of them come from impoverished homes where their families are rubbing two sticks together just to get by. They have this opportunity to make enough money to take care of their families for the rest of their lives, and they don't want to screw that up.

It's not as simple as saying "they reneged on a commitment they made to the university and their teammates." Honestly, most of their teammates, having come from a similar background, probably understand and support them. At the end of the day you have to do what's best for you and to take care of your family. If walking away from a college sport part way through the season guarantees you won't get hurt and spoil the opportunity to ensure your family never needs to worry about going hungry again would you do it? It would certainly be a tough decision.

 

[superjohn]

This is just such a strange hill to die on, the top 14 picks are all called lottery picks. You can spin and twist all these words however you like but when someone says "likely lottery pick Jalen Johnson" they don't mean top 4

This board is so strange, we've got one guy white knighting college coaches while ripping teenagers and another guy trying to argue only the top 4 picks are lottery picks.

 

[storrsroars]

This is just such a strange hill to die on, the top 14 picks are all called lottery picks. You can spin and twist all these words however you like but when someone says "likely lottery pick Jalen Johnson" they don't mean top 4

People are dumb. I'd love to see Jordan Peterson explain this, lol.

 

[BGesus4]

The last time you saw a college basketball coach quit in the middle of a season to take another job was exactly when? It's extremely rare.

Or because college football plays by no rules whatsoever, that means that a college basketball player doesn't have to honor his commitments?

(FWIW, I am clearly on the record that it's absurd and reprehensible that the NCAA allows a member institution to hire a coach under contract to someone else while his season is still ongoing. But quitting at the end of the season -- the young man is allowed to do that. Just like a coach is.)

Wait, so every time a coach changes jobs have they quit on all the kids they’ve recruited to come to their previous school?

 

[7774]

I'm arguing that while the top 14 teams are involved in the lottery, in reality, the top 14 players aren't. Once the top 4 guys are picked, things pretty much go rock-chalk. IOW, no matter which teams pick 1-4, Jalen Johnson's odds of being one of those 4 picks is still nil. He'll go where he's projected to go.

This is just so bizarre. The lottery picks are the 14 teams that don't make the playoffs. They all get ping pong balls in the lottery, and have a chance at the #1 pick. What is even happening here?

 

[BleedHuskyBlu]

I mean it is considered quitting on your team but me personally as a fan would not hold it against any college player that looked out for their NBA career by opting out. Good luck to Jalen at the next level

 

[mussels]

Collecting a bunch of one-and-dones appears to be an increasingly problematic, and unsuccessful strategy. This is tragic.

 

[superjohn]

People are dumb. I'd love to see Jordan Peterson explain this, lol.

Jordan Peterson, yikes.

 

[storrsroars]

This is just so bizarre. The lottery picks are the 14 teams that don't make the playoffs. They all get ping pong balls in the lottery, and have a chance at the #1 pick. What is even happening here?

What is happening is that there are only 4 surprises. Once the first four balls are picked, the other 10 teams know exactly where they'll be picking. So, I'm positing that it's not a true lottery for those 10 teams.

Is it a strange hill to die on? Sure. But I'm happy to do so. I love to argue.

 

[storrsroars]

Jordan Peterson, yikes.

There is no person on the planet more precise in what words he chooses.

 

[UCDaveD]

What is happening is that there are only 4 surprises. Once the first four balls are picked, the other 10 teams know exactly where they'll be picking. So, I'm positing that it's not a true lottery for those 10 teams.

Is it a strange hill to die on? Sure. But I'm happy to do so. I love to argue.

That’s a lot of words to type when “I was mistaken” would’ve sufficed.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Took a quick look at four mocks that have been updated in the past week. Johnson was projected as going anywhere from 6-11, with a composite of 8. Far from a lottery pick but a nice monied neighborhood.

For comparison, Bouk was projected 9-20, with a composite of 15.

The difference between 8 and 15 over the course of a rookie contract is in the neighborhood of $10 mill.

I mention Bouk here as I'm wondering if Johnson's decision may actually influence Bouk's return as Bouk's stock can only rise if he returns while Johnson's falls.

And as far as quitting, why hasn't a guy like Ziaire Williams done so? Stanford basically has no shot at making the 2nd weekend, and maybe not even the first. Williams is a likely top 7 pick. Maybe it's that Stanford education ;-)

The NBA Draft lottery is 14 teams. So picks 1-14 are lottery picks. If he's from 6-11, then he's a lottery pick.

As for the kid, I'm done judging people for stuff like this. It's unfair to them. It's his life. I hope he apologized to his teammates and staff. I hope they accepted that apology.

 

[whosurdaddy2720]

What is happening is that there are only 4 surprises. Once the first four balls are picked, the other 10 teams know exactly where they'll be picking. So, I'm positing that it's not a true lottery for those 10 teams.

Is it a strange hill to die on? Sure. But I'm happy to do so. I love to argue.

The thing is there really isn't a hill in the first place my man.

Nobody but you defines the lottery as "the first four picks". If you went into any basketball circle and said that you'd be laughed out of the room.

You're free to feel how you want about what should be called the lottery but the definition is the definition.

 

[superjohn]

There is no person on the planet more precise in what words he chooses.

Lol, the guy is a disaster.

 

[auror]

What is happening is that there are only 4 surprises. Once the first four balls are picked, the other 10 teams know exactly where they'll be picking. So, I'm positing that it's not a true lottery for those 10 teams.

Is it a strange hill to die on? Sure. But I'm happy to do so. I love to argue.

Words are given meaning and definitions by collective society. This way, there is less confusion in communication. Using a word to mean something different because it reflects your opinion of a more literal truth isn't a virtue, because it leads to confusion.

There is no right answer between "the teams who participate in the lottery make up the lottery picks" and "the teams picking in the positions awarded by the lottery" should be the "true" "lottery picks". But EVERYONE uses the former grouping as the definition of "the lottery picks". So when speaking to others, the former definition is the literally correct definition.

 

[7774]

What is happening is that there are only 4 surprises. Once the first four balls are picked, the other 10 teams know exactly where they'll be picking. So, I'm positing that it's not a true lottery for those 10 teams.

Is it a strange hill to die on? Sure. But I'm happy to do so. I love to argue.

Haha, by "surprises" you mean winners. Because it's a lottery. There are 4 teams that win the lottery, and 10 teams that lose the lottery. What an amazing take.

 

[storrsroars]

Words are given meaning and definitions by collective society. This way, there is less confusion in communication. Using a word to mean something different because it reflects your opinion of a more literal truth isn't a virtue, because it leads to confusion.

If that were the case, then you fully support and rationalize the diminishing of superlatives like "amazing", "awesome", and "unbelievable", as pretty much everything today is "amazing", "awesome", and "unbelievable" due to how "society" has decided to use those words to describe fairly mundane things and activities. I believe this currently usage of those superlatives has resulted in hyperbole and indeed, confusion.

But that's a debate for a different day.

 

[XLCenterFan]

Semantics. The first 4 are the actual lottery picks. Picks 5-14 would go in pretty much the same order of W-L record as they would've w/o the lottery. What the lottery does is simply ensure that the worst team picks no worse than #5.

Wait...what? A lottery pick is a lottery pick. The definition of which has already been decided upon and is accepted as standard and normal...1-14. I do love your avatar though. You've got my blessing on that.

 

[storrsroars]

Lol, the guy is a disaster.

I'd love to debate you on that over in the echo chamber. But, for purposes of this thread, he's useful as an example of saying precisely what you mean and not allowing others to twist your words.

 

[auror]

If that were the case, then you fully support and rationalize the diminishing of superlatives like "amazing", "awesome", and "unbelievable", as pretty much everything today is "amazing", "awesome", and "unbelievable" due to how "society" has decided to use those words to describe fairly mundane things and activities.

Lol no. This is a false equivalence. What we're discussing is the original definition of the term, not one that has changed over time.

 

[mussels]

The definition of which has already been decided upon and is accepted as standard and normal...1-14.

Has it though?

From google (underlining mine)

People also ask
​

What is considered a lottery pick?
A lottery pick denotes a draft pick whose position is determined through the lottery, while a non-playoff team involved in the process is often called a lottery team. Under the current rules, only the top four picks are decided by the lottery, and are chosen from the 14 teams that do not make the playoffs.

 

[superjohn]

I'd love to debate you on that over in the echo chamber. But, for purposes of this thread, he's useful as an example of saying precisely what you mean and not allowing others to twist your words.

Start a thread over there, I have a lot to say.