OT: doesn’t this “destroy the purity of the game”?

[temery]

Yes. IMO it does destroy the purity of the game and the spirit of competition to intentionally miss a free throw. It would have been a greater tribune to actually break the record as a tribute to Street.

I respect what he did, but I would have broken the record and given the ball to Street's parents.

 

[connie]

No idea what "purity of the game" is supposed to denominate. The phrase merely substitutes one ambiguity for another.

 

[CocoHusky]

No idea what "purity of the game" is supposed to denominate. The phrase merely substitutes one ambiguity for another.

It is not ambiguous at all. The phrase denotes that there is a purposeful, artistic, competitive way the game of basketball is intended to be played at all levels.
If you are not playing basketball for a purpose, don't bother.
The artistic piece is individual talent combined into a team concept and Geno describes this best as being like a jazz band, where the individual instruments often will get time to display brilliant solos but these solo must still fit within a team (band) framework-otherwise it is just another solo no matter how brilliant.
Similar to the purpose the game of basketball is competitive at all levels and demands that you do your very best at all times while playing. This is where IMO this player violated the "purity" of the game because the game demands that you try and make every shot.

 

[meyers7]

It is not ambiguous at all. The phrase denotes that there is a purposeful, artistic, competitive way the game of basketball is intended to be played at all levels.
If you are not playing basketball for a purpose, don't bother.
The artistic piece is individual talent combined into a team concept and Geno describes this best as being like a jazz band, where the individual instruments often will get time to display brilliant solos but these solo must still fit within a team (band) framework-otherwise it is just another solo no matter how brilliant.
Similar to the purpose the game of basketball is competitive at all levels and demands that you do your very best at all times while playing. This is where IMO this player violated the "purity" of the game because the game demands that you try and make every shot.

Really? So when Geno calls off the press or doesn't allow the team to fast break, or has them dibble out the clock at the end of the game, he is violating the purity of the game??

 

[CocoHusky]

Really? So when Geno calls off the press or doesn't allow the team to fast break, or has them dibble out the clock at the end of the game, he is violating the purity of the game??

No, not at all. When Geno makes those decisions the competitive part of the game is pretty much over. The players on the floor have a different task to accomplish to the best of their ability -to run out the clock without embarrassing the other team. So it is exactly the opposite- hoisting up a bunch of shots in a blow out would be violating the purity of the game.

 

[JordyG]

No, not at all. When Geno makes those decisions the competitive part of the game is pretty much over. The players on the floor have a different task to accomplish to the best of their ability -to run out the clock without embarrassing the other team. So it is exactly the opposite- hoisting up a bunch of shots in a blow out would be violating the purity of the game.

I'm glad to say you and I agree on most things Coco. But we're 100 miles apart on this one. "Purity" and "game" are 2 such nebulous terms that pairing them together can almost be seen as an oxymoron, fatuous, or so many things in between. But frankly in a very strict sense no game can ever be pure.

 

[connie]

It is not ambiguous at all. The phrase denotes that there is a purposeful, artistic, competitive way the game of basketball is intended to be played at all levels.
If you are not playing basketball for a purpose, don't bother.
The artistic piece is individual talent combined into a team concept and Geno describes this best as being like a jazz band, where the individual instruments often will get time to display brilliant solos but these solo must still fit within a team (band) framework-otherwise it is just another solo no matter how brilliant.
Similar to the purpose the game of basketball is competitive at all levels and demands that you do your very best at all times while playing. This is where IMO this player violated the "purity" of the game because the game demands that you try and make every shot.

Ok. Now I'll try.

The missed FT was purposeful and intended to have a predictable outcome. As far as I am concerned, under the circumstances it was within the spirit of the game, sporting, honorable, and far more important than merely breaking a record. That moment made everyone who witnessed it better, even if only in some small, incomplete way.

As for "artistic" . . . what you describe as individual talent combined into a team concept (like a jazz band) becomes a less effective metaphor and conceptual framework when taking given isolated moments during the game. It is difficult to imagine anything particularly "artistic" in this sense in standing at the line shooting a FT (this is not to say that the manner in which a player may shoot a FT is not aesthetically pleasing to watch; but that is not what I take the description to mean).

As for the "competitive way the game of basketball is intended to be played" . . . I don't accept that characterization if it is intended to foreclose upon moments like the one at issue, or for that matter other moments. I mean, UConn almost always dribbles out the final seconds of a game firmly in hand (opting to not "try and make every shot"). Those final 10 seconds plainly cannot satisfy the "competitiveness" standard proposed. So, either the team regularly violates the "purity of the way the game is played", or (more likely) there is something incomplete with the definition.

 

[UConnNick]

It is not ambiguous at all. The phrase denotes that there is a purposeful, artistic, competitive way the game of basketball is intended to be played at all levels.
If you are not playing basketball for a purpose, don't bother.
The artistic piece is individual talent combined into a team concept and Geno describes this best as being like a jazz band, where the individual instruments often will get time to display brilliant solos but these solo must still fit within a team (band) framework-otherwise it is just another solo no matter how brilliant.
Similar to the purpose the game of basketball is competitive at all levels and demands that you do your very best at all times while playing. This is where IMO this player violated the "purity" of the game because the game demands that you try and make every shot.

What if the only chance for a team to win is to deliberately miss a free throw, hoping to get the rebound and score a basket which will win the game?

 

[Sifaka]

Waiting for the outrage in 4, 3, 2, 1.

I save my outrage for things we do not discuss on this forum, things that, to me at least, matter more than this game I so love and admire.

And now, back to our game, already in progress...

"Purity" must certainly include refs who inconsistently call phantom fouls, while turning a blind eye to muggings.

"Purity" allows for beautiful passes, and flopping.

"Purity" encompasses players who help opponents up off the floor, and others who make ugly remarks to one another.

"Purity" can have freshmen do agonizingly boneheaded things, as well as make offensive and defensive moves that leave one breathless and amazed.

I am not even a little bit outraged that some folks see it all differently.

 

[CocoHusky]

What if the only chance for a team to win is to deliberately miss a free throw, hoping to get the rebound and score a basket which will win the game?

Not sure if you are being serious or not. A deliberate miss to try and win the game would fit under the part of being competitive because YOU ARE TRYING TO WIN!

 

[CocoHusky]

Ok. Now I'll try.
The missed FT was purposeful and intended to have a predictable outcome. As far as I am concerned, under the circumstances it was within the spirit of the game, sporting, honorable, and far more important than merely breaking a record. That moment made everyone who witnessed it better, even if only in some small, incomplete way.
As for "artistic" . . . what you describe as individual talent combined into a team concept (like a jazz band) becomes a less effective metaphor and conceptual framework when taking given isolated moments during the game. It is difficult to imagine anything particularly "artistic" in this sense in standing at the line shooting a FT (this is not to say that the manner in which a player may shoot a FT is not aesthetically pleasing to watch; but that is not what I take the description to mean).
As for the "competitive way the game of basketball is intended to be played" . . . I don't accept that characterization if it is intended to foreclose upon moments like the one at issue, or for that matter other moments. I mean, UConn almost always dribbles out the final seconds of a game firmly in hand (opting to not "try and make every shot"). Those final 10 seconds plainly cannot satisfy the "competitiveness" standard proposed. So, either the team regularly violates the "purity of the way the game is played", or (more likely) there is something incomplete with the definition.

I should have started my response by saying what I think that Nan meant by integrity of the game was... Then a response such as "likely incomplete" might have been changed to I don't think that's what she meant or (more likely) I disagree with your definition.
Dribbling out the final second of the clock or not fast breaking or even opting not to shoot once the outcome of the game has been decided are not inconsistent with my definition of being competitive. Opting not to shoot is also not the same thing as deliberately attempting to miss a shot. Kelly Faris decided not to shoot in final seconds of the 2013 final four and was charged with a turnover -shot clock violation. In 2016 Brianna Pulido decided to shoot. Hopefully the difference is obvious and clear-having made a decision to shoot, always shoot to make it, otherwise someone (likely me) will accuse you of comprising the integrity of the game.

 

[phil sampieri]

I should have started my response by saying what I think that Nan meant by integrity of the game was... Then a response such as "likely incomplete" might have been changed to I don't think that's what she meant or (more likely) I disagree with your definition.
Dribbling out the final second of the clock or not fast breaking or even opting not to shoot once the outcome of the game has been decided are not inconsistent with my definition of being competitive. Opting not to shoot is also not the same thing as deliberately attempting to miss a shot. Kelly Faris decided not to shoot in final seconds of the 2013 final four and was charged with a turnover -shot clock violation. In 2016 Brianna Pulido decided to shoot. Hopefully the difference is obvious and clear-having made a decision to shoot, always shoot to make it, otherwise someone (likely me) will accuse you of comprising the integrity of the game.

 

[phil sampieri]

Pure b----s------- They did not affect the outcome of the game.

 

[CocoHusky]

I'm glad to say you and I agree on most things Coco. But we're 100 miles apart on this one. "Purity" and "game" are 2 such nebulous terms that pairing them together can almost be seen as an oxymoron, fatuous, or so many things in between. But frankly in a very strict sense no game can ever be pure.

No worries. I never expect anyone to agree with me all the time, because half the time I don't agree with myself. I disagree that you cannot judge the purity of the game. For me it a very simple standard=did you "intend" to make every shot you took in the game, and did you play (in the immortal words of Herm Edwards) to win.
What this player did IMO was no different than what several NBA players have have done by deliberately missing a shot so that they or a teammate can get a rebound to score a triple double or whatever. That cheapens the accomplishment & compromises the integrity of the game.

 

[CocoHusky]

Pure b----s------- They did not affect the outcome of the game.

Of course it did.
One of the outcomes of the game had he made the shot was that game would have been recorded as the game in which the IOWA record for consecutive free throws was broken.
BTW, what was the over and under or point spread on that game?

 

[phil sampieri]

Of course it did.
One of the outcomes of the game had he made the shot was that game would have been recorded as the game in which the IOWA record for consecutive free throws was broken.
BTW, what was the over and under or point spread on that game?

Dude you are searching aren't you?

 

[bags27]

What this player did IMO was no different than what several NBA players have have done by deliberately missing a shot so that they or a teammate can get a rebound to score a triple double or whatever. That cheapens the accomplishment & compromises the integrity of the game.

you mean like this?
COLLEGE BASKETBALL; Sales Is Given Free Shot, And Sinks It for Record

When asked about the possibility that his action would cheapen the school record for Sales, Auriemma answered: ''I don't care about the criticism. You've got to do the right thing for the kids.

 

[phil sampieri]

Of course it did.
One of the outcomes of the game had he made the shot was that game would have been recorded as the game in which the IOWA record for consecutive free throws was broken.
BTW, what was the over and under or point spread on that game?

. Aha , there it is the purity your worried about including the over/under and point spread. Now I understand the purity!

 

[connie]

Dribbling out the final second of the clock or not fast breaking or even opting not to shoot once the outcome of the game has been decided are not inconsistent with my definition of being competitive.

If you say so . . . Just going by what was written: BB is "competitive", "do your very best", "try and make every shot". Now we can add: "but it's okay if you are say dribbling out the clock or not fastbreaking, or opting not to shoot if the game is decided (but if you are a walk-on and the game is in the bag and there's not a dry eye in the house, well, then it's probably ok)"

(This is shaping up to be a very cumbersome needlepoint.)

Why not also add: "p.s. you can also not make your free-throw if your team has a decent lead and you promise to play your heart out to win, provided it is in the service of honoring a former team member record-holder whose promising life was tragically lost in a meaningless car accident" ?

 

[CocoHusky]

1) If you say so . . . Just going by what was written: BB is "competitive", "do your very best", "try and make every shot". Now we can add: "but it's okay if you are say dribbling out the clock or not fastbreaking, or opting not to shoot if the game is decided (but if you are a walk-on and the game is in the bag and there's not a dry eye in the house, well, then it's probably ok)"

(This is shaping up to be 2) a very cumbersome needlepoint.)

3) Why not also add: "p.s. you can also not make your free-throw if your team has a decent lead and you promise to play your heart out to win, provided it is in the service of honoring a former team member record-holder whose promising life was tragically lost in a meaningless car accident" ?

1) I do say so. 2) I don't do needlepoint. 3) I wouldn't add this.

 

[JordyG]

No worries. I never expect anyone to agree with me all the time, because half the time I don't agree with myself. I disagree that you cannot judge the purity of the game. For me it a very simple standard=did you "intend" to make every shot you took in the game, and did you play (in the immortal words of Herm Edwards) to win.
What this player did IMO was no different than what several NBA players have have done by deliberately missing a shot so that they or a teammate can get a rebound to score a triple double or whatever. That cheapens the accomplishment & compromises the integrity of the game.

Fair enough. By the way, if you get any word on this years Jordan Brand Classic before I do please post it or give a heads up.

 

[Los24]

I read all the responses first then read the article. To the point of many, this is not live and death.

That said, if his miss could have caused the team to lose it was wrong to do in my opinion unless the entire team discussed / voted on it first. His commitment is to the team first when he puts on the uniform and takes the court, not to an unfortunate death 25 years ago. For folks that say there are more important things than wins/losses, there are but who decides when your decision impacts many and not just yourself?

I do not even agree with the player that it is "not his record to have" because he could have gone on and made the next 20, 30,.... so he could have gone past what Chris Street might have ended his streak at...

So now to contradict myself, it was a great gesture and especially in a me first culture. I am always touched by those that put others before themselves. So I guess everyone is right (or wrong) : -)

 

[connie]

1) I do say so. 2) I don't do needlepoint. 3) I wouldn't add this.

Hey! You made me laugh!

 

[CocoHusky]

I read all the responses first then read the article. To the point of many, this is not live and death.

That said, if his miss could have caused the team to lose it was wrong to do in my opinion unless the entire team discussed / voted on it first. His commitment is to the team first when he puts on the uniform and takes the court, not to an unfortunate death 25 years ago. For folks that say there are more important things than wins/losses, there are but who decides when your decision impacts many and not just yourself?
I do not even agree with the player that it is "not his record to have" because he could have gone on and made the next 20, 30,.... so he could have gone past what Chris Street might have ended his streak at...
So now to contradict myself, it was a great gesture and especially in a me first culture. I am always touched by those that put others before themselves. So I guess everyone is right (or wrong) : -)

Great points and another tribute example to consider and hopefully extend the good discussion.
In 1990 Bo Kimble in tribute his fallen teammate Hank Gathers shot two free throws left handed in the middle of a competitive NCAA tournament game. Any integrity issues here?

 

[dogged1]

What is the Boneyard coming to. An excellent debate, with thoughtful well reasoned posts, conducted in a civil way. Who would of thought?
Very enjoyable.