OT- Dan Marino retires

[traitor71]

Brady has played in Super Bowls following the 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007, 2011, 2014, and 2016 season and fell one game short on four other occasions all within the free agency era. Players were not allowed to move around as freely in Marino's first decade in the league with the winningest coach of all time (IIRC) and no salary cap. Even Plan B free agency was more akin to restricted free agency. Me thinks it was not Marino's supporting cast.

The Marino mythology

Myth: Marino had to carry the Dolphins himself.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Few quarterbacks in NFL history have been surrounded by more talent than Marino.

In his 17-year career, Marino played with 55 players named to the Pro Bowl. Marino himself was named a Pro Bowler nine times. That's a remarkable 64 Pro Bowl players, or nearly four for every season Marino spent in the NFL. Four times in Marino's career, the Dolphins boasted five or more Pro Bowl players in a single season. Compare that with New England's two Super Bowl teams, which had a total of just five Pro Bowl players.

Myth: Marino was a big-game quarterback.

Cold, Hard Football Facts: Want to know the real reason why Marino never won a Super Bowl? Sadly, the answer sits with Dan Marino himself.

Simply put, Marino did not elevate his game in the playoffs. In fact, his played dropped off quite noticeably. Marino has a career regular season passer rating of 86.4. His postseason passer rating was just 77.1. He played in 18 playoff games, and won just eight of them.

...

I'd like to see this list of pro bowlers, who they were, when they played in the pro bowl, etc. Then I want to see a list of who Miami drafted during his years as a player. The Dolphins were a poorly run organization, period. Hell, they lucked into Marino because he fell in the draft.

I remember watching an NFL films special about Bill Walsh. In it he talked about the super bowl against Miami and how during the warmups he was completely amazed that a team as nonathletic as Miami could make the super bowl. I don't know what Marino would or wouldn't have done anywhere else, but those teams just weren't very good.

 

[Husky25]

I'd like to see this list of pro bowlers, who they were, when they played in the pro bowl, etc. Then I want to see a list of who Miami drafted during his years as a player. The Dolphins were a poorly run organization, period. Hell, they lucked into Marino because he fell in the draft.

I remember watching an NFL films special about Bill Walsh. In it he talked about the super bowl against Miami and how during the warmups he was completely amazed that a team as nonathletic as Miami could make the super bowl. I don't know what Marino would or wouldn't have done anywhere else, but those teams just weren't very good.

I seriously don't care that much to search for it. However back then, the Pro Bowl was two weeks after the Super Bowl and it meant a free trip to Hawaii when salaries were not so high. So I don't think 1/4 of the league was named to the Pro Bowl like they are now.

 

[mauconnfan]

That would make for a good argument. Brady's made lots of good and mediocre players better but I haven't seen any sure fire Hall of Famers on his offensive rosters. Put Brady on the Texans last season and they could have won the Super Bowl. Put any other QB on the Pats and they would have fizzled. Marino had lots of good and mediocre players around him too, but other than Dwight Stephenson--no Hall of Famers either. He just wasn't Brady.
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Garapollo looked like.....um Brady for his games he was healthy so I'm guessing we can forget about the fizzle with anyone else.

 

[mauconnfan]

Belichick is great but Shula wasn't a bad coach either. Brady has had many fewer pro-bowlers. Marino was good, but not in Brady's league.

Not in his league? C'mon Marino's in anyone's "league" you can argue he's easily Top 5 probably Top 3 for sure with a SB win.

 

[Husky25]

Was Romo a standout? This season, Brady came through with WRs who have heart, not talent. I kept saying he's a product of the system. A 25 point comeback in the Super Bowl says otherwise.

Yeah, Keyshawn. That's it.

 

[gtcam]

I'm assuming you're kidding.

If Brady were as versatile as his homers think, he'd of had a noteworthy college career. He didn't. Marino, did.

Different teams different offenses in Michigan and Pittsburgh. Marino was The Star at Pitt and offense revolved around him. Not the same with Brady. Marino is really good but he is not Brady. I am a Giants fan b ut consider Brady the best to ever walk on a field and until someone else has his success and numbers there is no argument.imho

 

[traitor71]

I seriously don't care that much to search for it. However back then, the Pro Bowl was two weeks after the Super Bowl and it meant a free trip to Hawaii when salaries were not so high. So I don't think 1/4 of the league was named to the Pro Bowl like they are now.

Well, if you don't want to look it up, then don't get fooled by it then. They weren't very good and they weren't very talented and I have no doubt that this pro bowl list could be torn apart pretty easily.

 

[Husky25]

Well, if you don't want to look it up, then don't get fooled by it then. They weren't very good and they weren't very talented and I have no doubt that this pro bowl list could be torn apart pretty easily.

You have Google. Support your own arguments.

 

[Chin Diesel]

When Marino retired he was Top 5 all-time for QB's.

Now I wouldn't put him in the top 10.

Just since his retirement Montana, Elway, Brady, Manning, Favre easily surpass his accomplishments. Brees is getting close to Marino type career numbers (and influence). Marino was a better version of Fouts. Great thrower of the ball; there is so much more to being an all-time great QB than throwing the ball.

Mixing sports analogies he'd be Elvin Hayes in basketball and Rod Carew in baseball.

 

[BlueDogs]

Love him or hate him, Brady is the best QB of all time by any meaningful set of comparative measures. There are other "greats", Marino being one of several.

 

[temery]

I don't disagree, but my argument is whoever is winning at any given time is all too often considered the best of all time. Five championships does not happen because of one player.

If I made the argument the '72 Dolphins was the best of all time, I'd get replies from Patriot's fans disagreeing.

Was Bob Greece the most dominant QB of all time because he was the only QB to go undefeated? (No, but it has nothing to do with Brady).

When Marino retired he was Top 5 all-time for QB's.

Now I wouldn't put him in the top 10.

Just since his retirement Montana, Elway, Brady, Manning, Favre easily surpass his accomplishments. Brees is getting close to Marino type career numbers (and influence). Marino was a better version of Fouts. Great thrower of the ball; there is so much more to being an all-time great QB than throwing the ball.

Mixing sports analogies he'd be Elvin Hayes in basketball and Rod Carew in baseball.

 

[traitor71]

You have Google. Support your own arguments.

Since you're too damn lazy to support your own, I went ahead and looked it up for you.

So he actually had 24 teammates that went to the pro bowl. Several went multiple times. So we are talking about guys like Dwight Stephenson, Mark Clayton, John Offerdahl and Richmond Webb who each went 5 times. That's 4 guys who make up 20 of that 55 number that was referenced in the material you copied and pasted to your post. The best years were 1983 and 1984, not surprisingly those were really good seasons for Miami. But they had 5 pro bowlers in 86, not counting Marino himself and managed to go 8-8. Since we are using pro bowlers as the metric for determining the talent level on the team, I can only conclude that Miami really sucked at every other position since they couldn't manage a winning record.

Going through the rest of his "pro bowl teammates list" you find it populated with guys that made it once and never got back and it's really light on the defensive side to say the least. Certainly John Offerdahl was a good player on some not so good teams and I was surprised to see that Bryan Cox made it 3 times, but other than that you get a one shot guy like Brian Sochia who no one down here would ever imagine actually went to a pro bowl.

I will say that as a football fan, this ended up being a pretty fun exercise. Looking through the pro bowl rosters from 83-99 brought back some memories and at times left me absolutely stunned by some of the guys that actually made the pro bowl. Just for the Dolphins I was amazed that Ferrell Edmunds made it twice as a tight end with giant seasons of 360 and 450 yards. He had a whopping FOUR touchdowns over those two seasons. How the hell does that get you to the pro bowl?

This post is already long winded enough, otherwise I would post Miami's first round draft picks over that time period which were really bad. What a terrible organization they were, they traded Anthony Carter to the Vikings for some linebacker that no one remembers for God's sake.

No quarterback in history was going to win anything important with that show going on.

 

[traitor71]

I don't disagree, but my argument is whoever is winning at any given time is all too often considered the best of all time. Five championships does not happen because of one player.

If I made the argument the '72 Dolphins was the best of all time, I'd get replies from Patriot's fans disagreeing.

Was Bob Greece the most dominant QB of all time because he was the only QB to go undefeated? (No, but it has nothing to do with Brady).

Hell, you could argue that the 72 Dolphins were the best team and use the fact that Griese missed most of the damn season as evidence of it. Earl Morrall (I didn't see it live..I'm not quite that old!) took over for him and wasn't replaced until the AFC championship game at Pittsburgh. AT Pittsburgh. How the hell do you go undefeated and have to play the conference championship game on the road? That's just plain crazy. FWIW, I don't think they were the best team ever, but those are two really strong arguments for it.

 

[temery]

Hell, you could argue that the 72 Dolphins were the best team and use the fact that Griese missed most of the damn season as evidence of it. Earl Morrall (I didn't see it live..I'm not quite that old!) took over for him and wasn't replaced until the AFC championship game at Pittsburgh. AT Pittsburgh. How the hell do you go undefeated and have to play the conference championship game on the road? That's just plain crazy. FWIW, I don't think they were the best team ever, but those are two really strong arguments for it.

Yup. To this day Moral gets little credit for winning most of those games. And I agree, they likely are not the best of all time. Records can be misleading. I consider Marino better than Greece, even with no championships.

 

[Husky25]

Since you're too damn lazy to support your own, I went ahead and looked it up for you.

Laziness has nothing to do with it. What you posted doesn't support my argument. It also does not address the other points in the article.

Marino was good. Bearly great, if you will. He was not transcendent by any stretch.

 

[traitor71]

Laziness has nothing to do with it. What you posted doesn't support my argument. It also does not address the other points in the article.

Marino was good. Bearly great, if you will. He was not transcendent by any stretch.

It wasn't intended to. You do understand that, right? On top of not wanting to back up your own argument, do you also lack the ability to understand that fact? What other point do you want to have addressed? His playoff win loss record? What a shocker, the better teams usually win in the playoffs. For some reason you seem to think Miami had some really good, really talented teams. They didn't, but it seems you can't understand the facts presented to you.

 

[traitor71]

Yup. To this day Moral gets little credit for winning most of those games. And I agree, they likely are not the best of all time. Records can be misleading. I consider Marino better than Greece, even with no championships.

It was so different back then. Griese and Morrall were good, really good in Griese's case, but those truly were the days of three yards and a cloud of dust. Christ, Miami won a super bowl where they passed it only seven times I believe. Today you're more likely to win a game where you only run it seven times. That's part of what makes it so hard to compare players from different eras. Even in the last 7 or 8 years the way the game is played has changed dramatically, more so than any other sport I think, although basketball has changed pretty radically as well.

 

[Husky25]

It wasn't intended to. You do understand that, right? On top of not wanting to back up your own argument, do you also lack the ability to understand that fact? What other point do you want to have addressed? His playoff win loss record? What a shocker, the better teams usually win in the playoffs. For some reason you seem to think Miami had some really good, really talented teams. They didn't, but it seems you can't understand the facts presented to you.

I have an opinion. You have a competing view. Yet you want me to eagerly support both POVs? Don't think I'm the one who doesn't understand.

 

[traitor71]

I have an opinion. You have a competing view. Yet you want me to eagerly support both POVs? Don't think I'm the one who doesn't understand.

You have a comprehension issue on this matter. What I am saying is that you haven't supported your own point of view. You copied and pasted something that was pretty easily dissected. Dissenting opinions and spirited discussions are a good thing, fun and a great diversion from serious stuff, but I am not able to see how you have come to the conclusion that Miami had any kind of a real good team back then ouside of a few seasons.

 

[Husky25]

You have a comprehension issue on this matter. What I am saying is that you haven't supported your own point of view. You copied and pasted something that was pretty easily dissected. Dissenting opinions and spirited discussions are a good thing, fun and a great diversion from serious stuff, but I am not able to see how you have come to the conclusion that Miami had any kind of a real good team back then ouside of a few seasons.

Go watch the basketball game or something. Go outside. It's beautiful. Geeziscrise!!

You dissected the article. Congratulations. You want a cookie? It's okay with me if it's okay with Temery. I really didn't care so much as I was procrastinating for a few minutes at work, and I certainly wasn't going to help you make a case against me.

This is frankly boring. I am DVRing the basketball game and plan to start watching it as soon as I make lunch for my son. You're welcome to the last word.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Ummm... exactly. It's an apples to oranges comparison. I'm not denying Brady isn't a great QB. He's easily one of the best. But I believe Marino is also among the best.

Dan was the best passer I've ever seen. Straight up. But I think those vertical pass heavy Dolphins offenses were easier to defend for truly strong defenses. They were too one dimensional. I do think he had lots of talent around him, that's no excuse. I don't fault him really, more the coaches for building a regular season team that couldn't win in the playoffs.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Garapollo looked like.....um Brady for his games he was healthy so I'm guessing we can forget about the fizzle with anyone else.

I'm a Pats fan, but think several QBs could run the Pats offense and win. Peyton in his prime for sure, Rodgers, probably Brees, and hopefully Jimmy G. But it's complicated as hell, and there are many QBs, even good ones, who couldn't handle the mental aspects of it. What Brady is most of all, is the same thing Montana was, a perfect fit for the offense he's asked to run.

 

[StoweD210]

I wasn't sure why Marino was retiring now, but I guess he never filed his retirement papers with the league. This provided an opportunity for him and guys like Larry Little and Bob Griese to sign 1 day contracts with the Dolphins and officially "retire." It's a nice story.

As far as his place in history, Marino has to be considered one of the top QBs ever in the NFL. His 5000 yards passing in 1984 still ranks as #7 in single season passing performances and is the only one in the top 20 that didn't happen in the 2000s. Additionally, Miami's passing offense was in the top 4 in the league from 1984 to 1995, 5 times as #1. Marino's numbers also have to be viewed in the context of when he played. From 1984 to 1999, you would see an average of 2 or 3 teams a season with more than 4000 yards passing. Over the last 3 years, 12 or 13 teams passed for that many yards. Marino was putting up those kind of numbers at a time when teams were built with the idea that they needed a good running game to complement the passing attack.

I understand the knocks against Marino, also. In 1984, the Dolphins lost the SB and then followed that up with a loss in the AFCCG. Then they missed the playoffs for 4 straight seasons and 5 of the next 6. Marino also didn't play with a 1000 yard rusher until 1996. Was it his ego that prevented Miami from committing more to the ground game at the expense of the passing attack? I don't know. I would think that a HOF coach like Shula would have looked at that stretch without a playoff appearance and realized that either the defense had to get better or the running game did. Marino could put up passing yards, but that wasn't enough. I don't know why neither of those things happened. Maybe it was a combination of Shula losing his touch, bad luck and bad drafting.

 

[temery]

Well said. Marino broke every NFL passing record. In his day, he was easily one of the best.

When Shula retired he admitted he was unable to coach in the new NFL environment of free agency. He wasn't able to manage players egos.

I wasn't sure why Marino was retiring now, but I guess he never filed his retirement papers with the league. This provided an opportunity for him and guys like Larry Little and Bob Griese to sign 1 day contracts with the Dolphins and officially "retire." It's a nice story.

As far as his place in history, Marino has to be considered one of the top QBs ever in the NFL. His 5000 yards passing in 1984 still ranks as #7 in single season passing performances and is the only one in the top 20 that didn't happen in the 2000s. Additionally, Miami's passing offense was in the top 4 in the league from 1984 to 1995, 5 times as #1. Marino's numbers also have to be viewed in the context of when he played. From 1984 to 1999, you would see an average of 2 or 3 teams a season with more than 4000 yards passing. Over the last 3 years, 12 or 13 teams passed for that many yards. Marino was putting up those kind of numbers at a time when teams were built with the idea that they needed a good running game to complement the passing attack.

I understand the knocks against Marino, also. In 1984, the Dolphins lost the SB and then followed that up with a loss in the AFCCG. Then they missed the playoffs for 4 straight seasons and 5 of the next 6. Marino also didn't play with a 1000 yard rusher until 1996. Was it his ego that prevented Miami from committing more to the ground game at the expense of the passing attack? I don't know. I would think that a HOF coach like Shula would have looked at that stretch without a playoff appearance and realized that either the defense had to get better or the running game did. Marino could put up passing yards, but that wasn't enough. I don't know why neither of those things happened. Maybe it was a combination of Shula losing his touch, bad luck and bad drafting.

 

[Adios]

Well said. Marino broke every NFL passing record. In his day, he was easily one of the best.

When Shula retired he admitted he was unable to coach in the new NFL environment of free agency. He wasn't able to manage players egos.

Well then, there you go. So Miami is no blue blood.

But that 1972 Miami team won't be forgotten anytime soon. It's ok.