OT: Connecticut College

[August_West]

The kid is in the last stages of decoding where she will go to college…

She’s basically going to choose from a pair of current Big East schools, (thankfully, she’s tossed Providence), a former Big East school and Connecticut College/Holy Cross/union as small school picks.

I didn’t go to Conn College when she visited, so have no insight into the place. I am a little concerned that a kid who goes to a high school with 4,500 kids is going to be out of place at a college of 1800 kids.

Anyone familiar with the place?

Yeah my brother went there for a bit. It’s a nice school, very quiet though tucked away in the decent part of New London. If it helps you eliminate more schools , I will disclose that I live about 10 miles from there. ;-)

 

[8893]

Yeah my brother went there for a bit. It’s a nice school, very quiet though tucked away in the decent part of New London. If it helps you eliminate more schools , I will disclose that I live about 10 miles from there. ;-)

His daughter can babysit for you!

 

[August_West]

I am sort of an expert on this (wife is a NE travel writer), while Ford's is hands down the best lobster in CT, it is almost impossible to get in unless you want to eat lobster at 11 am or wait two hours. There is a great place called Captain Scott's Lobster Dock a few miles from campus that will fit the bill among many others.

Fords Impossible? I was there on a Saturday at 4 pm 2 -3 weeks ago and had whole restaraunt to myself!

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Couple of scattered opinions:

-Connecticut College sits just north of the "bad" part of New London, Crystal Ave and surrounding streets. Bad being relative to the rest of Southeastern CT. I'm sure the campus is safe but if you were new to New London you may not be aware of it. Just something to keep in mind.

-I loved living in New London but due to being on the water, May - August were the best months so you'd miss that by fall and spring semesters.

-No idea what your daughter plans to do but when I worked in NYC, my last employer was a huge company and was littered with senior leadership that came out of SUNY schools for undergrad.

 

[auror]

Ha I actually wanted big classes when I was picking a college. I wanted to just be able to relax in a lecture hall and be talked at and not have to worry about being put on the spot or to have to do anything other than listen and take notes.

Feels like big classes would prepare you better for the real world where people don't hold your hand

 

[upstater]

Something to consider about Liberal Arts colleges: since most of the curricular offerings are, indeed, Liberal Arts and Humanities, the size of classes doesn't matter as much as it used to. At many large schools, Liberal Arts and Humanities classes are just as small as they are at LACs. The numbers have cratered in these fields from 50% of all students 20 years ago to about 15% now. I hear this argument being made by NY parents all the time regarding our public LAC, Geneseo. Buffalo's classes in many majors are smaller than Geneseo's!

Off topic: as a parent of a high schooler I was fairly shocked when I was told that 40% of the admits at many schools this year did not submit standardized tests. Later in the same talk, our guidance counselors told us that students who do not submit tests are not eligible for aid.

I heard a 5 alarm fire go off in my head but the rest of the parents did not seem to make the connection. Somehow, colleges have succeeded in making matters worse during the pandemic.

 

[HooperScooper]

Feels like big classes would prepare you better for the real world where people don't hold your hand

So you think professors at small colleges hold their students' hands? Lol

Next time at work you have a meeting with 200 people let me know how much collaboration there is from all 200 participants and how it turned out.

As I've said many times, there are pros and cons to both big and small colleges.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Feels like big classes would prepare you better for the real world where people don't hold your hand

I never had the experience of anyone holding my hand in a small class - I did have the feeling of “the potential for embarrassment if I’m not prepared is off the charts.”

When I was a freshman I ended up in an upper level American literature seminar that I was not adequately prepared for and I was completely out of my league. The rest of the students were these sophisticated hipsters that seemed like they were 40.

So one day toward the end of a 90 minute seminar I accidentally knocked over the cup I had been filling up with dip spit over the course of the class. I watched in horror as a veritable lake of dip spit spread across the small round table around which probably 8 of us were seated. They all looked at me like I was an alien. I didn’t know what to do so I took the sweatshirt in my book bag and used it like a sponge to sweep the spit off the table. In retrospect a hilarious moment but at the time one of the most embarrassing moments of my life.

 

[Fishy]

Something to consider about Liberal Arts colleges: since most of the curricular offerings are, indeed, Liberal Arts and Humanities, the size of classes doesn't matter as much as it used to. At many large schools, Liberal Arts and Humanities classes are just as small as they are at LACs. The numbers have cratered in these fields from 50% of all students 20 years ago to about 15% now. I hear this argument being made by NY parents all the time regarding our public LAC, Geneseo. Buffalo's classes in many majors are smaller than Geneseo's!

Off topic: as a parent of a high schooler I was fairly shocked when I was told that 40% of the admits at many schools this year did not submit standardized tests. Later in the same talk, our guidance counselors told us that students who do not submit tests are not eligible for aid.

I heard a 5 alarm fire go off in my head but the rest of the parents did not seem to make the connection. Somehow, colleges have succeeded in making matters worse during the pandemic.

We live in New York and she applied to Geneseo and Binghamton as her ’safety‘ schools, even though both are very good. She had originally intended to apply to Buffalo as well, but made an error with the common app submission and applied to Buffalo State by accident…

A lot of schools went test-optional this year and between that and the class of 2025 kids who took a pandemic gap year, this year was a horror for applicants. So many good schools were flooded with applications and they simply did not have the ability to process them - a lot of kids did not get into schools they should have waltzed into and schools really put a lid on aid because they knew they could.

It was a truly poor experience. Generally, the advice is to have a well-balanced resume, good grades, etc. - in reality, none of it matters. If your kid sunk hundreds of hours into something on his resume and some other kid spent three hours, it’s going to look the same to the admissions rep who spends 20 seconds on each. Basically, they are just going to want to a) protect their stats and b) protect their yield and c) collect as much in application and tuition fees as possible.

 

[BackAftaThis]

We live in New York and she applied to Geneseo and Binghamton as her ’safety‘ schools, even though both are very good. She had originally intended to apply to Buffalo as well, but made an error with the common app submission and applied to Buffalo State by accident…

A lot of schools went test-optional this year and between that and the class of 2025 kids who took a pandemic gap year, this year was a horror for applicants. So many good schools were flooded with applications and they simply did not have the ability to process them - a lot of kids did not get into schools they should have waltzed into and schools really put a lid on aid because they knew they could.

It was a truly poor experience. Generally, the advice is to have a well-balanced resume, good grades, etc. - in reality, none of it matters. If your kid sunk hundreds of hours into something on his resume and some other kid spent three hours, it’s going to look the same to the admissions rep who spends 20 seconds on each. Basically, they are just going to want to a) protect their stats and b) protect their yield and c) collect as much in application and tuition fees as possible.

I was definitely the jerk who put in 3 hours to something because of that mindset. As long as I can say I did it, they don’t know what I actually did. It’s really all a game.

 

[superjohn]

We live in New York and she applied to Geneseo and Binghamton as her ’safety‘ schools, even though both are very good. She had originally intended to apply to Buffalo as well, but made an error with the common app submission and applied to Buffalo State by accident…

A lot of schools went test-optional this year and between that and the class of 2025 kids who took a pandemic gap year, this year was a horror for applicants. So many good schools were flooded with applications and they simply did not have the ability to process them - a lot of kids did not get into schools they should have waltzed into and schools really put a lid on aid because they knew they could.

It was a truly poor experience. Generally, the advice is to have a well-balanced resume, good grades, etc. - in reality, none of it matters. If your kid sunk hundreds of hours into something on his resume and some other kid spent three hours, it’s going to look the same to the admissions rep who spends 20 seconds on each. Basically, they are just going to want to a) protect their stats and b) protect their yield and c) collect as much in application and tuition fees as possible.

I feel for any kid going through high school, going through the college process, and going to college these days.

We all had it way better.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Daughter graduated from Union last spring. Very good school, underappreciated. Don’t know about Connecticut College, though.

 

[upstater]

We live in New York and she applied to Geneseo and Binghamton as her ’safety‘ schools, even though both are very good. She had originally intended to apply to Buffalo as well, but made an error with the common app submission and applied to Buffalo State by accident…

A lot of schools went test-optional this year and between that and the class of 2025 kids who took a pandemic gap year, this year was a horror for applicants. So many good schools were flooded with applications and they simply did not have the ability to process them - a lot of kids did not get into schools they should have waltzed into and schools really put a lid on aid because they knew they could.

It was a truly poor experience. Generally, the advice is to have a well-balanced resume, good grades, etc. - in reality, none of it matters. If your kid sunk hundreds of hours into something on his resume and some other kid spent three hours, it’s going to look the same to the admissions rep who spends 20 seconds on each. Basically, they are just going to want to a) protect their stats and b) protect their yield and c) collect as much in application and tuition fees as possible.

I feel really bad this happened.

And worse: it's not going to get any better.

Why? Because average SAT scores skyrocketed since they only counted the SATs from the top 60% of admittees. If they go back to testing required, those SAT scores will drop. So will the rankings in USNews.

Next, applications seemed to triple at the top schools. Why? Because a bunch of kids who otherwise wouldn't apply to these schools tried their luck applying without tests. And many schools took 40% of these kids. We're not going back though because whatever school decides to go to test required will see a huge dropoff in applications. Which will crater their admissions rate. Which will crater their rankings. It is madness all around.

To top it all off, we're barely past the number of students we had in 1969. we won't open seats at the top colleges. For the same reasons as above.

 

[EnochRoot]

I think the question that begs to be asked (yet again) is why the hell isn't Fishers Island part of Connecticut instead of New York?

 

[alphasigko]

The kid is in the last stages of decoding where she will go to college…

She’s basically going to choose from a pair of current Big East schools, (thankfully, she’s tossed Providence), a former Big East school and Connecticut College/Holy Cross/union as small school picks.

I didn’t go to Conn College when she visited, so have no insight into the place. I am a little concerned that a kid who goes to a high school with 4,500 kids is going to be out of place at a college of 1800 kids.

Anyone familiar with the place?

For what it is worth my son went from the largest HS in CO with 3,600 students to a small college in Santa Barbara. He found comfort in the fact that he was not just a number there but that there was more personal attention from the professors in the smaller classes.

 

[Fishy]

I feel really bad this happened.

And worse: it's not going to get any better.

Why? Because average SAT scores skyrocketed since they only counted the SATs from the top 60% of admittees. If they go back to testing required, those SAT scores will drop. So will the rankings in USNews.

Next, applications seemed to triple at the top schools. Why? Because a bunch of kids who otherwise wouldn't apply to these schools tried their luck applying without tests. And many schools took 40% of these kids. We're not going back though because whatever school decides to go to test required will see a huge dropoff in applications. Which will crater their admissions rate. Which will crater their rankings. It is madness all around.

To top it all off, we're barely past the number of students we had in 1969. we won't open seats at the top colleges. For the same reasons as above.

Some will go back, some won’t.

The biggest issue this year is that kids really had no way of knowing where they belonged. We know a brilliant kid who is going to Binghamton because everyone else turned her down - top 15 in a class of 500, high ACT, great extra curricular. She didn’t get into her top schools and her safeties waitlisted her to protect their yield. Dreamed of being a doctor and now has to launch that bid from the cheap seats.

Worked insanely hard for four years and the payoff was a school she could have gone to without spending one late night studying. Good friend of our daughter’s dream school was BU. BU was beneath her but this year, they deferred her, wait listed her and then offered her a spot with $0 aid. Their crime was being in the class of 2026 and being in a demographic that the schools did not mind beating up on.

If I am going to offer kids advice…..do not have a dream school. Treat the private schools as the effectively for-profit outfits that they are. When a school talks about their holistic approach to reviewing applications, they are lying. (Villanova was huge on that….knowing what I know about the randomness of a Nova acceptance from kids in our high school, I assure you that it is all crap. They had no real standard. Friend of my daughter got in with zero actual extracurriculars, higher rated friend got waitlisted with good extras. Tufts was the same.)

Pay attention to how the schools treat you when you visit. There are no guarantees, but the schools that went out of their way on visits tended to be the ones who seem to do a more thorough review of an application. Also, give the state U the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Fishy]

Daughter graduated from Union last spring. Very good school, underappreciated. Don’t know about Connecticut College, though.

Good to know.

We visited Union on the absolutely worst weather day of the year last fall - it was raining sideways and made 32.1 degrees so that it was just barely too warm to snow.

But we know some folks who went there including her swim coach who graduated last spring as well….the merit aid is great and I would like having her within 90 minutes of us.

I don’t express an opinion to her about some things, but holy smokes, that campus felt so small to me.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

As someone else said, a humanities degree is a commitment to grad school. The major is much more important than the school. State school STEM majors are bumping up on six figures right out of college while humanities grads from very good schools are struggling to find good jobs.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

Good to know.

We visited Union on the absolutely worst weather day of the year last fall - it was raining sideways and made 32.1 degrees so that it was just barely too warm to snow.

But we know some folks who went there including her swim coach who graduated last spring as well….the merit aid is great and I would like having her within 90 minutes of us.

I don’t express an opinion to her about some things, but holy smokes, that campus felt so small to me.

Very small campus, but with Schenectady winters that’s actually a good thing. And MIT is leading the charge reinstating an SAT requiremen.

MIT and the SAT

Q &A with Dean of Admissions

 

[husky429]

I feel really bad this happened.

And worse: it's not going to get any better.

Why? Because average SAT scores skyrocketed since they only counted the SATs from the top 60% of admittees. If they go back to testing required, those SAT scores will drop. So will the rankings in USNews.

Next, applications seemed to triple at the top schools. Why? Because a bunch of kids who otherwise wouldn't apply to these schools tried their luck applying without tests. And many schools took 40% of these kids. We're not going back though because whatever school decides to go to test required will see a huge dropoff in applications. Which will crater their admissions rate. Which will crater their rankings. It is madness all around.

To top it all off, we're barely past the number of students we had in 1969. we won't open seats at the top colleges. For the same reasons as above.

I'm probably not supposed to be pro-testing because I'm a school teacher... but I really think it's ridiculous that they don't require them. I think the same for grad programs that drop the GRE.

The big argument I always hear is that the tests are biased. 1) I've never seen a kid do badly on the SAT that was clearly smart, 2) I HAVE seen kids with really tough backgrounds that didn't do very well in school punch above their weight class in the admissions process and change their life. The risk is the rich kids getting tutors to do better on the test and such. I agree but I think the risk isn't as great as with rec letters, extracurriculars and grades.

IMO recommendation letters and extracurriculars are a hell of a lot more biased than the tests are. I've taught hundreds of really smart kids who juat didn't have the time to do extracurriculars. Or kids that aren't going to get great recommendations because they're shy and have eccentric hobbies or something. Grades are also inflated to hell at rich white kid schools.

Grades don't mean anything anymore. Anyone can get credit for extracurriculars if you spend an hour after school once a semester. Sign me up for the only objective measure of student performance we have left.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Very small campus, but with Schenectady winters that’s actually a good thing. And MIT is leading the charge reinstating an SAT requiremen.

MIT and the SAT

Q &A with Dean of Admissions

Most of the top STEM focused schools seem to require it. Carnegie Mellon basically requires it, as does Purdue. Both schools require an essay explaining why a student didn’t provide a test score for any student applying Test Optional. The heavy STEM programs just need kids that are smart enough. There is no bs-ing your way through MIT's or Carnegie Mellon's freshman calculus classes. And if those schools want to take kids from disadvantaged backgrounds, they need to identify and provide remedial assistance out of the gate or they will lose those kids. They need the test.

I expect most state schools to ultimately folllow the lead of MIT for STEM majors. A case could be made that writing samples are more important for an English major than a good SAT score, but there is no substitute to a strong test score for an Engineering or Math major.

I think Test Optional policies do a few things for the schools, all of which are bad:

1) Convince kids that have no chance to apply to super selective schools "test optional". This serves to drive down acceptance rates at competitive schools and make them seem even more exclusive, which helps them in rankings.

2) drive the average SAT scores up which helps them in the rankings. This has gotten so bad and so obvious that US News is actually adjusting how SAT's impact rankings for schools that have a lot of TO admissions.

3) select more students from privileged backgrounds because the prep and wealthy suburban high schools have bigger grade inflation than middle class and disadvantaged high schools have. There is research on the grade inflation at preps and wealthy suburbs over the last 20 years.

4) enables the schools to hide legacies and rich kids who are screwups because those kids won't hurt the admit stats if they apply TO.

I can actually respect test-blind admissions policies like the University of California, even if I disagree with them. Schools are welcome to use any policies they want for admissions as long as those policies are consistent. Test Optional is total bs. Either the test matters or it doesn't. How does making it "optional" make any sense at all?

 

[Giddyup5]

I am the team doc for Conn College and so this is purely based on my experience with the student athletes.

Overall I think it is a great academic school and many the strengths and weakness have already been covered. I wanted to mention a few things not yet stated from my experience.

I was incredibly surprised by the diversity of the student body. I figured most would be New England kids but there are students from all over the country. In addition, students from many countries abroad which again was a little bit of a surprise but I think helps provide a great cultured experience.

Everyone plays a sport. It might be crew or track, but they encourage you to stay active which I love.

Many kids after their freshmen year live in Groton/Long Point. Beautiful area to live in though as some posters mentioned you arguably miss out on the summer months.

I continue to be impressed by the quality of the kids. I’m sure many schools can boast this, but every student is incredibly polite, well mannered, and articulate. They all seem to have a reasonable plan for their future, many with internships all set up. They speak with a quiet confidence that I do not always see in college kids.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I address it above, but I want to re-emphasize that the right major is more important than the right school. Put another way, a Computer Science or Engineering major from Central Connecticut is going to get a good job upon graduation. I am not as confident about a literature major from an IVY or NESCAC school.

A middle-aged poster saying they know someone from an NESCAC school that did really well is not a great benchmark for today's world. We grew up in a completely different era. I am sure we all knew plenty of screw ups from our days at UConn whose degrees may have said "English" or "History", but they really majored in partying and smoking weed, and still went on to be very successful. That is harder now in a society that is so tech heavy and doesn't have the big corporate training programs like there were when we were graduating from college.

Banks don't need to hire Ivy League humanities majors and drop them into a training program any more because schools like UConn churn out so many excellent Finance and Accounting majors that show up the first day of work ready to be productive. Even majors like Marketing have become much more specialized and technical, and a Marketing major from any decent school has a HUGE advantage for those entry level jobs over the liberal arts school graduate.

There are 50% more STEM grads every year than there were 20 years ago, and that number is growing rapidly. A lot of jobs that would hire smart kids with any degree 30 years ago now require STEM majors because they can. There are a lot of STEM majors.

Computer Science is the most in-demand major at colleges right now. The Computer Science programs at Illinois and Washington are more competitive to get into than most NESCAC schools. Even UMass has a highly competitive Comp Sci program. These CS kids are going to be graduating into a world where every large and mid size company is transitioning into a technology company. They will have their pick of job offers.

I know many people who showed up at Wall Street in the 70's through 90's and weaseled their way onto a trading floor. Corporate finance was more exclusive, but back then the trading floors had plenty of kids that made millions on street smarts and their ability to ingratiate themselves to their bosses. Those days are long gone. Goldman and Morgan Stanley need math majors to design algorithms, not some clever Lit major who is good at taking the temperature of the market. The algorithms will do that for them.

My advice is to get a STEM or business degree from any school. Come out of college with a definable skill, or build a time machine to go back to an era where definable skills weren't necessary for college grads.

 

[BPT2Storrs]

Reading through this thread is somewhat depressing. I was having a conversation with someone the other day about what college admissions and higher education will look like in 20 years. I firmly believe it will be drastically different than now. The current process and cost is not sustainable. I had no idea that many schools dropped standardized testing requirements, did not know that kids were applying to schools completely out of the realm of possibility, etc.

$60-$80k per year for private schools? It’ll be well over $100k in a few years. That’s unreal. At what point does someone say to themselves is there a better investment? What does someone have to make at entry-level, mid-career and at the height of their professional career to justify those costs? What is the likelihood they will reach those numbers? I understand if your going to be an engineer, doctor or lawyer but let’s be real with ourselves not every lawyer or engineer is pulling down outrageous salaries - it depends on a lot of other factors.

We need to have a serious conversation with ourselves of higher education and career paths. There is currently a college for everyone yet we know that college is not for everyone. We know that college graduates are struggling to find jobs and student loan debt is a huge issue. We also have a several shortage of certain types of professions, many that don’t require a 4 year degree. That shortage then leads to higher costs for everyone. We need to advocate for trade schools, but IMO we need to let businesses know that many jobs they hire for require on job training and experience and not a degree.

Downvote away but in general higher education has become nothing more than a money grab.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Reading through this thread is somewhat depressing. I was having a conversation with someone the other day about what college admissions and higher education will look like in 20 years. I firmly believe it will be drastically different than now. The current process and cost is not sustainable. I had no idea that many schools dropped standardized testing requirements, did not know that kids were applying to schools completely out of the realm of possibility, etc.

$60-$80k per year for private schools? It’ll be well over $100k in a few years. That’s unreal. At what point does someone say to themselves is there a better investment? What does someone have to make at entry-level, mid-career and at the height of their professional career to justify those costs? What is the likelihood they will reach those numbers? I understand if your going to be an engineer, doctor or lawyer but let’s be real with ourselves not every lawyer or engineer is pulling down outrageous salaries - it depends on a lot of other factors.

We need to have a serious conversation with ourselves of higher education and career paths. There is currently a college for everyone yet we know that college is not for everyone. We know that college graduates are struggling to find jobs and student loan debt is a huge issue. We also have a several shortage of certain types of professions, many that don’t require a 4 year degree. That shortage then leads to higher costs for everyone. We need to advocate for trade schools, but IMO we need to let businesses know that many jobs they hire for require on job training and experience and not a degree.

Downvote away but in general higher education has become nothing more than a money grab.

If I knew of a way to short sell the entire industry, I would short sell higher education today. It is where traditional media was 25 years ago, on the edge of a cliff and tipping over. How much longer can schools sell an aura of exclusivity to get families to shell out $300k+ for worthless degrees?