OT: College Search: UCONN vs. Out of State

[J187Money]

One thing that I learned as part of this process - a bit of a "college hack"...

If your kids do sports / music / etc - smaller schools NEED X number of athletes/musicians/actors, etc - to keep their programs running. My son is going to a school that was a woman's college as recent as 2007 and there are about 300 men v. 1000 women undergrad. In order to field teams for XC/Track/Soccer/Swimming/BB/etc - they need enough guys. My son's grades / etc were fantastic, but due to income I figured I was going to have to pay full freight. Because the school NEEDED him, they coughed up the scholarship money without us even asking for it - it was part of the acceptance letter.

 

[CL82]

I am thankful my daughter is sensitive to cost, and you're exactly right, we don't want to make her decision for her, because she may hate it just for that reason. We've basically have told her, "We have saved X for you, and we can afford to pay X additional. Everything over that is on you." Although Michigan sounds great, and Villanova and Northeastern are her #1 and #2 choices so far, when you apply this formula, we don't see her at any of those schools.

We have tempered our expectations on merit-aid after seeing the first two packages trickle in. Kind of disappointing as she is a member of NHS, National Math Honor Society, National French Honor Society. She has a 96 average with a handful of AP courses, and a 1350 SAT. We weren't expecting her to get a free ride, but the numbers were surprising.

Depends on the schools she looks at. Some I'm sure would be very motivated by her.

 

[uconnfan68]

Yes to all of this.

If your son is not interested in UConn, and if he wants to stay in the South (even if he doesn't care about the SEC), my wife's alma mater, UGA, is a great school at a great price.

Athens is an amazing college town, and a perfect sized little city.

Isn’t GA instate free?

 

[Guapo]

Isn’t GA instate free?

No, but there is an amazing scholarship called The Hope Scholarship.

You can attend any instate school for free if you graduate high school with a certain GPA and maintain a certain GPA in college.

It has totally revolutionized higher ed in Georgia.

Georgia Tech is now #7 public school in the US news rankings and UGA is #16.

It keeps the best and brightest home.

 

[Chin Diesel]

One thing that I learned as part of this process - a bit of a "college hack"...

If your kids do sports / music / etc - smaller schools NEED X number of athletes/musicians/actors, etc - to keep their programs running. My son is going to a school that was a woman's college as recent as 2007 and there are about 300 men v. 1000 women undergrad. In order to field teams for XC/Track/Soccer/Swimming/BB/etc - they need enough guys. My son's grades / etc were fantastic, but due to income I figured I was going to have to pay full freight. Because the school NEEDED him, they coughed up the scholarship money without us even asking for it - it was part of the acceptance letter.

You had me at 3.3:1 female to male.

 

[Devland]

One piece of advice I can give after putting four kids through college. Try to select a well rounded college/university. All four of mine switched majors and graduated with degrees in something other than what they intended on majoring in when they enrolled. They are young and after getting exposed to different things may want to change course. One of my daughters went in for nursing but after taking some medical related chemistry courses decided on a bio-chemistry major. She is now a chemist in the medical research field.

 

[huskypantz]

One piece of advice I can give after putting four kids through college. Try to select a well rounded college/university. All four of mine switched majors and graduated with degrees in something other than what they intended on majoring in when they enrolled. They are young and after getting exposed to different things may want to change course. One of my daughters went in for nursing but after taking some medical related chemistry courses decided on a bio-chemistry major. She is now a chemist in the medical research field.

This. I was looking at business-focused school before picking uconn. I ended up in a completely unrelated major.

 

[AreBee1969]

One piece of advice I can give after putting four kids through college. Try to select a well rounded college/university. All four of mine switched majors and graduated with degrees in something other than what they intended on majoring in when they enrolled. They are young and after getting exposed to different things may want to change course. One of my daughters went in for nursing but after taking some medical related chemistry courses decided on a bio-chemistry major. She is now a chemist in the medical research field.

Agreed, the schools she has chosen also have a speech pathology major as well, which is her back-up plan if she finds that doesn't like nursing.

 

[Drew]

Agreed, the schools she has chosen also have a speech pathology major as well, which is her back-up plan if she finds that doesn't like nursing.

Speech Pathology is an excellent field to get into. My sister wound up doing this and loves it. Sounds like she's got a good plan.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Quick thoughts @AreBee1969 : As long as your daughter studies hard/effectively, actually graduates with a nursing degree, and passes required boards, she'll find work in a rapidly aging society. When considering schools, how much has she considered "What if I don't graduate with a nursing degree and instead finish with a less marketable degree from schools (A-Z)"? Will school X with a less marketable degree position me to find or create a good career opportunity? 4 year fun versus potential 40 year consideration?

Of the schools listed:
- Academically, Michigan stands out. Decent associated hospitals, plenty of opportunities with a respected degree in currently faster growing areas around the nation or back home after graduating. Financial aid? Hmmm, with plenty of CT students?
- WVU and Syracuse come up tied for last. Other than your wife's grad school sentiments, WVU's just not a very good school, the area sukcs, the economy's still on life support, etc. I know WVU hospital's top cardiologist and know quality care is provided, when's the last time sometime put "WV and world-class health care services" in a sentence? Internship in podunk WV?
- Syracuse: Woefully overpriced, not nearly as impressive as some inexplicably believe, located in a dumpy city and ongoing dying area, cold as a witch's ... , etc.; Any respected hospitals for internships? Many CT kids go there; minimal school incentive to provide much aid unless your daughter has some amazing distinguishing characteristics, background, experience, etc. Other than sports coms (or whatever it is), why consider Syracuse? Massive mystery from my perspective, but your daughter may have good reasons.
- For private school prices, Northeastern and Nova offer better intern/coop access to some of the nation's/world's top hospitals. As both schools have boat loads of CT students like your daughter, their incentive to offer much aid may not be too high (emphasis on may not).
- Penn State's a pretty decent school, but it's challenging to identify an added ROI versus UConn. Better football experience now, but just an even bigger land grant school in podunk-ville. For a CT kid, many other large state schools would pop up versus Ped State.
- Pitt's not private, it's actually a state-funded school. Very good hospitals for internships, Pittsburgh's an OK city, but what's the real added attraction? Financial aid? Doubt it!
- UConn - Other than really wanting to get away from home/Mom/Pop, being in a relatively slower growth economy, and a few months of krap winter weather, bang-for-the-buck it's a no brainer "great pick".

Other than Boston with its' strong economy and the slight possibility of Amazon picking Philly, none of the schools are in fast growth areas. Maybe your daughter prefers cool to cold weather, but hasn't she considered any faster growth regions? Perhaps schools with warmer weather, competitive total costs relative to UConn, and potential stronger incentive to expand campus diversity by offering a CT native financial aid?

Good luck to your daughter!

Northeastern is literally across the street from a hospital. In a city swimming in hospitals.

Only downside for UConn here is that she doesn't want to go there. That's certainly important.

I totally agree on WVU and Syracuse. Dreary places with dead economies. They make no sense. I could understand say, U Tennessee or any number of publics with a nursing major. My understanding from people who have just gone through this, is that midwestern publics like taking New England kids. So schools like Wisconsin or Michigan that have a strong reputation would make some sense.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I can understand that perception and my wife and I have asked that same question to ourselves. Maybe it is partly a northeast bias or maybe it is that fact that I look at lots of resumes and, wrongly or rightly, there is certainly a relevancy to where a candidate gets the undergrad degree. I live in Tennessee. UT-Knoxville just doesn't have the out-of-state perception from employers as a top 20 public school like UConn or even other public schools in the south. Much of the thread's discussion revolves around a UConn nursing degree vs. other schools. Not every profession is like nursing where there is a dire need for talented person's throughout the country.

My son does not know what he wants to do for a career and I do not want to limit those options based on saving tuition money on the front end. New college grads are competing for quality jobs and some colleges certainly give their grads a leg up in that competition. When you look at the US News "best value" schools, it is primarily the same schools as the top academic school ratings. That is because their graduates get the better paying jobs and over time the salaries and career advancement offset the tuition money spent. The approach I am taking with my son is the best "bang for the buck" where we balance out all the factors and provide him with the best springboard into a successful career. A major factor is cost and potential debt, but there is a lengthy list of other factors.

Obviously one of the primary factors is his satisfaction with the final decision on which school to attend. Admittedly, there is a part of the decision that takes on a "commodity" vibe. However, there is also the understanding that the college years are some of the best years in a person's life. Those years start during the selection process where a student hopefully falls in love with a school that: 1) they can get into, and 2) that they can afford.

It depends on the field of study too. In certain areas of biology, UT Knoxville is superb. I am sure it is also perfectly adequate for accounting, finance etc. There are always surprises. A friend of mine in San Diego had his son get a free ride at U New Mexico for robotics. Apparently they are into that there. He's spending his senior year now in Japan. Will be extremely employable even with a UNM degree.

The reality of the real world is that your degree becomes irrelevant very very quickly, unless it is a highly specialized field.

 

[RSTuthill]

Not exactly sure where the anti-Connecticut bias is coming from but the most recent studies show CT to be the 4th fastest growing economy in the nation. Also one of the best places to bring up kids you will find. Half way between NYC and Boston, a little closer to Providence, close to great skiing, and a very nice shore, what more do you want? Deep South prices? Nah, not gonna happen. But I personally think this place is world class and I WANT to live here.

Not sure either about the negative comments regarding Clemson. I have been there for many energy related conferences. My distinct impression is that it is excellent. Likewise Syracuse.

 

[John]

I'd love to hear from people whose kids are currently in the throws of the college search as well as those who made the decision FOR or AGAINST sending their kids to our alma mater.

My wife and I are both UCONN alumni ('94 Pharmacy and '91 History). We both chose UCONN because it was cheap. It is certainly a much better school now than it was 25 years ago. My daughter is a senior in High School and has applied to UCONN for sentimental reasons (us) and financial reasons, but it's really low on her list.

She has applied to a private schools ('Nova, Pitt, Northeastern and Syracuse [vomit]) and also state schools (PSU, Michigan, WVU (wife's grad alma mater). As a kid who hasn't travelled a lot, she feels she wants to go out of state. We're not going to force her to go anywhere, and she is very sensitive to what we can afford together.

Her major will be nursing, so honestly, it really doesn't matter where she gets the degree. UCONN's nursing program is great, and the cost is far more affordable for us. I would love to see her on FB Saturdays and know that she's less than an hour away at any time.

With the current condition of Connecticut's economy and the prospect of more taxes and a continued downward economic spiral, my wife and I would love for her to find an area outside of Connecticut and fall in love with it.

So we're really torn about this. On one hand, we love our alma mater, and we're trying not to saddle ourselves or our kid with monster loans. On the other hand, we're really fed up with the state of this state and want the best college experience for our daughter.

I'm an alumni - to me, none of those other schools jump out at me as being any better than UConn (ie. no Ivies, etc there). I'd say push for UConn - it's less expensive, and her degree from UConn is something to be proud of and will be marketable.

 

[AreBee1969]

Not exactly sure where the anti-Connecticut bias is coming from but the most recent studies show CT to be the 4th fastest growing economy in the nation.

From what I have read Ct had the 5th worst economy as of April 2017, and the 4th SLOWEST growing economy as of November 2017.

From UNH Professor Brian Marks 2/1/2018:

"Connecticut’s recovery lags the other New England states. Connecticut has yet to achieve unemployment numbers pre-recession. According to Marks, to extent our unemployment numbers are improving, we appear to be trading higher paying jobs for lower paying jobs.

Three big companies are leaving Connecticut: GE, Aetna, Alexion. Marks says they are not leaving for cheaper locations but for “hipper” more innovative places. Stanley Black and Decker’s plan to expand in Hartford may be the future for Connecticut. Marks says it could advance manufacturing technology."

Here's a quote form the Hartford Business Journal.

"Within Connecticut, there have been a number of labor-related, tax-related, and spending-related policy mistakes that in our view have contributed significantly to the situation. An overly generous but currently unsustainable social safety net, inflexible and generous labor contracts, and a non-competitive political landscape have all contributed to policy decisions that enhance inefficient institutional persistence and business and entrepreneurial uncertainty."

Several links in this article below.

HBJ's 2018 economic forecast

It's soul crushing.

 

[uconnric]

From what I have read Ct had the 5th worst economy as of April 2017, and the 4th SLOWEST growing economy as of November 2017.

From UNH Professor Brian Marks 2/1/2018:

"Connecticut’s recovery lags the other New England states. Connecticut has yet to achieve unemployment numbers pre-recession. According to Marks, to extent our unemployment numbers are improving, we appear to be trading higher paying jobs for lower paying jobs.

Three big companies are leaving Connecticut: GE, Aetna, Alexion. Marks says they are not leaving for cheaper locations but for “hipper” more innovative places. Stanley Black and Decker’s plan to expand in Hartford may be the future for Connecticut. Marks says it could advance manufacturing technology."

Here's a quote form the Hartford Business Journal.

"Within Connecticut, there have been a number of labor-related, tax-related, and spending-related policy mistakes that in our view have contributed significantly to the situation. An overly generous but currently unsustainable social safety net, inflexible and generous labor contracts, and a non-competitive political landscape have all contributed to policy decisions that enhance inefficient institutional persistence and business and entrepreneurial uncertainty."

Several links in this article below.

HBJ's 2018 economic forecast

It's soul crushing.

Except that Aetna isn't leaving and GE is hurting and downsizing already in Boston. It's not all gloom and doom.

 

[AreBee1969]

Except that Aetna isn't leaving and GE is hurting and downsizing already in Boston. It's not all gloom and doom.

Aetna is staying in CT because NYC revoked the $9.6 million they promised Aetna to relocate and GE tanking in Boston, doesn't improve our economic outlook.

What matters is that state employee union contracts can't be negotiated until 2027 and the pension underfunding is just going to grow under this deal. That underfunding will continue to be picked up by tax payers.

 

[Excalibur]

Aetna is staying in CT because NYC revoked the $9.6 million they promised Aetna to relocate and GE tanking in Boston, doesn't improve our economic outlook.

What matters is that state employee union contracts can't be negotiated until 2027 and the pension underfunding is just going to grow under this deal. That underfunding will continue to be picked up by tax payers.

The state's economic picture is far from rosy (a state bankruptcy is all but a mathematical certainty).

NYC didn't "revoke" anything, though. CVS told them Aetna wasn't coming, and they had to "revoke" the money to free it up for other use. Aetna's proposed move was stupid in the first place, and done for no other reason than their CEO wanted to live in the big city.

 

[RSTuthill]

I will try to find the article. Business Week or something like that.

PW is hiring engineers like crazy and Electric Boat is hiring too. Tolland County has the highest per family income in the state.

 

[Kemba429]

Im a senior and have applied to four schools UConn, Roger Williams, and two others that will not be named because people will be angry (no its not cuse.)

UConn is in the middle of my colleges for tuition costs.

Fingers crossed

 

[uconnfan68]

I am thankful my daughter is sensitive to cost, and you're exactly right, we don't want to make her decision for her, because she may hate it just for that reason. We've basically have told her, "We have saved X for you, and we can afford to pay X additional. Everything over that is on you." Although Michigan sounds great, and Villanova and Northeastern are her #1 and #2 choices so far, when you apply this formula, we don't see her at any of those schools.

We have tempered our expectations on merit-aid after seeing the first two packages trickle in. Kind of disappointing as she is a member of NHS, National Math Honor Society, National French Honor Society. She has a 96 average with a handful of AP courses, and a 1350 SAT. We weren't expecting her to get a free ride, but the numbers were surprising.

I feel your pain. Daughter had 1470, with 800 English, ranked in top 4-5 of 300, with all As in AP classes, and got virtually no offers. She ended up taking a nice package from a small D3 school, and then added half tuition from my company, and paid zero tuition for college. If she knew she was going to get the half tuition, she may have chosen differently, but she ended up just enjoying and not stressing. Has since picked up a highly regarded masters and her husband has his J.D. Its what kids do with opportunitites that counts.

 

[Hoophound]

One thing that I learned as part of this process - a bit of a "college hack"...

If your kids do sports / music / etc - smaller schools NEED X number of athletes/musicians/actors, etc - to keep their programs running. My son is going to a school that was a woman's college as recent as 2007 and there are about 300 men v. 1000 women undergrad. In order to field teams for XC/Track/Soccer/Swimming/BB/etc - they need enough guys. My son's grades / etc were fantastic, but due to income I figured I was going to have to pay full freight. Because the school NEEDED him, they coughed up the scholarship money without us even asking for it - it was part of the acceptance letter.

Having the same experience. In our case they want him to play basketball and he has several merit based offers. We wouldn’t qualify for financial aid and didn’t bother to apply. When the academic scholarships started coming in, I was surprised how substantial they were and wondered if they’d disappear when we provided our income info. No one ever even asked to see our finances.

He isn’t a great student but has good SAT scores (smart but super social and lazy). They find whatever means they can to get some athletes scholarships based on merit. Anyway, he got an offer to a great school and it was lower than the others. I simply called and said he needs more from them because other schools are offering more. Boom, they basically matched it.

 

[AreBee1969]

Well, the plot thickens. Acceptances from UCONN yesterday and UMich this morning. She was more excited about UCONN than I expected. Said she would "dig" going to school with "Neeph" and "Lou".

We had her sit down with our tax guy Tuesday. A local guy who has a kid at CCSU and one at OSU (full academic scholarship). Her takeaway was that he said "Loans are not your friend" 50+ times. He gets my tax business forever.

 

[Drumguy]

I'd love to hear from people whose kids are currently in the throws of the college search as well as those who made the decision FOR or AGAINST sending their kids to our alma mater.

My wife and I are both UCONN alumni ('94 Pharmacy and '91 History). We both chose UCONN because it was cheap. It is certainly a much better school now than it was 25 years ago. My daughter is a senior in High School and has applied to UCONN for sentimental reasons (us) and financial reasons, but it's really low on her list.

She has applied to a private schools ('Nova, Pitt, Northeastern and Syracuse [vomit]) and also state schools (PSU, Michigan, WVU (wife's grad alma mater). As a kid who hasn't travelled a lot, she feels she wants to go out of state. We're not going to force her to go anywhere, and she is very sensitive to what we can afford together.

Her major will be nursing, so honestly, it really doesn't matter where she gets the degree. UCONN's nursing program is great, and the cost is far more affordable for us. I would love to see her on FB Saturdays and know that she's less than an hour away at any time.

With the current condition of Connecticut's economy and the prospect of more taxes and a continued downward economic spiral, my wife and I would love for her to find an area outside of Connecticut and fall in love with it.

So we're really torn about this. On one hand, we love our alma mater, and we're trying not to saddle ourselves or our kid with monster loans. On the other hand, we're really fed up with the state of this state and want the best college experience for our daughter.

I'm a CPA and advise clients all the time about money and college. You owe it to her to talk about the financial impact of the decision. For example, Quinnipiac has a great nursing program but most kids who go there over UConn end up with boatloads of debt so why go there ($70k vs $28k)? Same thing for Northeastern and Cuse and Nova. All decent schools but not any "better" academically than UConn and all substantially more expensive. btw, Every region of the country has its highs and lows so I wouldn't worry too much about post grad living. I have a kid in CA and another in NJ, they find their way when its time.

My parents gave me the talk when I went to school and I ended up going to UConn due to the cost advantages and graduating with just a little debt. Even that took years to pay off, so I'd lay it all out on paper so she can see what the cost is going to be.

Just to be totally open though, I had 2 kids who went to Cornell and I had to pay full tuition for them. The kids don't have loans but I have a few hundred thousand less in my retirement savings than I would have had! Neither wanted to stay in the Ithaca/Cuse area - its really cold!

It comes down to being realistic about what you can afford and the debt she'll graduate with. She'll get a great education at any of those schools.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Tolland County has the highest per family income in the state.

CT counties: highest median income: 1st Fairfield, 2nd Middlesex, 3rd Tolland

 

[jackl]

I'm from Connecticut, went to UConn, love UConn, moved to DC upon graduating.

UConn is better academically than many of the schools you listed and the price point for that quality is nearly impossible to beat.

Having said that, she should go wherever she feels most comfortable while also having a full understanding of the ramifications of graduating with debt.

Except Syracuse. Under no circumstances should she attend Syracuse.

Just out of curiosity why are you so opposed to the Cuse? Other than the fact that in sports we hate them. Is that your reasoning? I sent my daughter to UCONN where she loved it. I was working a lot of OT so I was able to pay as she went on Campus. She even spent a semester at UNC Wilmington on a student exchange program. She got 5 A's and was a little annoyed when she found out that UCONN gave only a pass/fail grade for off campus grades. She said she could have partied a bit more. She got her Masters at Assumption in Worcester and now is stepping out into her own private practice as a Family Therapist specializing in working with people who have ADHD issues. She worked for a non profit for 9 years and had to make the break to be on her own. She felt she needed to help people by thinking outside of the box.