OT: Chances of Hartford getting MLS team?

[ZooCougar]

I can't disagree with the juice part - I don't live there. But this year there is only 1 MLS team outdrawing their MLB counterpart by city. And I don't watch baseball just saying that those figures of outdrawing 6-7 teams I am not seeing. I searched it because I found it impressive but not happening in 2014.

Hartford chance to me - 50/50 depending on where the $ is supposed to come from and Krafts sign off.

It wouldn't surprise me it baseball is cooking their books. When those figures were announced last season, they were pretty embarrassing to Bud Selig. Cowherd had a field day with his response. Selig actually said that baseball never really was the most popular sport so it was no big deal.

 

[ZooCougar]

As a Republican, the soccer haters sound like the people on Fox News that were actually surprised that Romney lost, surprised that people younger than the age of 25 actually exist, surprised that people actually use twitter and don't get that Facebook is for old people. It's like they are perpetually three steps behind.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

What we hear every 4 years is soccer haters becoming soccer experts with their proclamations on how soccer will never make it in America. Soccer HAS made it in America and it's going to keep growing. I agree with my brother who said he was done trying to explain soccer to the those who don't want to like it. The bashers now all sound like those old guys who brag about never being on the internet. Fine, but you don't sound amusing or cute anymore. You just sound old and out-of-touch.

LOL. OK.

 

[Bonehead]

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11976443/1/5-major-league-soccer-teams-that-outdraw-baseball.html

You might find this interesting.

Ok - fair enough but they aren't comparing by teams in the same city - which is a fair comparison as having the draw of same demographics. And all of the MLB teams have higher attendance figures so far this year. Some will drop as team plays bad. Houston's numbers are extremely better this year.

I could outdraw the Marlins and Rays by using my Facebook page and having a kegger. Move either of those teams to Columbus and I am sure they out draw the MLS team in same city.

Also fans are fair weather - if the KC soccer team sucked as bad as the Royals did for the same length of time I would expect an attendance drop - you??

I am impressed at the stadium percentage full figures in MLS - except NE NY and couple other east coast teams. But again they are mostly all playing in 20000 seat stadiums - that's why it's still affordable. If KC continues to have juice they expand stadium or play elsewhere which will increase costs.

 

[ZooCougar]

Ok - fair enough but they aren't comparing by teams in the same city - which is a fair comparison as having the draw of same demographics. And all of the MLB teams have higher attendance figures so far this year. Some will drop as team plays bad. Houston's numbers are extremely better this year.

I could outdraw the Marlins and Rays by using my Facebook page and having a kegger. Move either of those teams to Columbus and I am sure they out draw the MLS team in same city.

Also fans are fair weather - if the KC soccer team sucked as bad as the Royals did for the same length of time I would expect an attendance drop - you??

I am impressed at the stadium percentage full figures in MLS - except NE NY and couple other east coast teams. But again they are mostly all playing in 20000 seat stadiums - that's why it's still affordable. If KC continues to have juice they expand stadium or play elsewhere which will increase costs.

I don't think Sporting KC's attendance would drop as far as you think. When I lived here the last time for school, I went to games when they were still the Wizards, and they sucked. They played in a minor league baseball park and filled the place and then some. The had these field level seats that were awesome. We bought those for the LA Galaxy game when Donovan and Beckham came to town. The minor league park is also next to Legends which has entertainment and shopping, so most people made an evening of it.

Again, they are playing in 20,000 seat stadiums, the league picked that number for a reason. For one, soccer is better for spectators in a soccer specific stadium, secondly they weren't foolish enough to out NFL the NFL. I don't even think that they expected to beat out MLB in certain sectors.

 

[Husky25]

You missed my point, puckett.

Focus on point 2. I was commenting more so on the general quality of play down the street (as opposed to across an ocean). The MLS is 20 years old, is not covered in the mainstream, and there is no traditional of Dad and Junior or Junior's son enjoying a (root) beer together watching soccer.. On top of that, the best players ply their craft in other countries. In Hockey, the best players in the World come back to North America.

While Carolina/Buffalo after a two week layoff is certainly a letdown after two weeks of "world class" hockey (By the way, some of the hockey in pool play in Socchi was far from great), it is hardly representative of the NHL on a regular basis. For a time, The Sabres were staring down the prospects of a historically bad season. They couldn't score on Fremont Street.

 

[bc puckett]

You missed my point, puckett.

Focus on point 2. I was commenting more so on the general quality of play down the street (as opposed to across an ocean). The MLS is 20 years old, is not covered in the mainstream, and there is no traditional of Dad and Junior or Junior's son enjoying a (root) beer together watching soccer.. On top of that, the best players ply their craft in other countries. In Hockey, the best players in the World come back to North America.

While Carolina/Buffalo after a two week layoff is certainly a letdown after two weeks of "world class" hockey (By the way, some of the hockey in pool play in Socchi was far from great), it is hardly representative of the NHL on a regular basis. For a time, The Sabres were staring down the prospects of a historically bad season. They couldn't score on Fremont Street.

I think we're actually looking at 2 different things. I certainly wasn't trying to compare the NHL with MSL. I was just commenting on the dropoff in the quality of play following world class events. I just know that friends of mine who never watch hockey will watch the Olympics and comment on how (usually) the hockey is exciting. They then tell me two weeks later they tried to watch a game but quit after 1 period because it was boring and not on the level they had watched at the Olympics. The cycle generally repeats every 4 years. But whatever...

Also it wasn't a shot at the Sabres, or Hurricanes for that matter, they just happened to be playing the first game back after the break. Of course it was a makeup game so it certainly wasn't what the league had in mind either.

 

[Dooley]

First things first, I'm not a baseball guy.

Secondly, I've been hearing that soccer is going to be the next big thing since I was a kid. When I was a kid (over 30 years ago), soccer was already the most played youth sport over baseball, football, basketball, hockey, etc. It will never be as popular here as the other major sports leagues. I don't know why soccer fans get so butt hurt over this instead of just enjoying the niche sport that it is.

I'm a soccer fan and not butt hurt at all. It's an interesting debate and I understand your point: the "soccer buzz" has been around for a while. That said, the "buzz" has always centered on America's changing demographics. Those demographics are still changing and the sport is gaining popularity. Even a decade ago, the only English Premier League games that you could find were tape delay games played days earlier and only aired really late at night or during the day when everybody works. Now, there is a major sports network that airs games LIVE. Not just the elite games either, but we get to see Fulham vs Aston Villa (or other less recognizable clubs).

To each is own over their entertainment preferences. If someone doesn't like soccer, it's all good. But to deny that the sport is gaining popularity is a bit misguided I think. 30 years ago, would you ever have guessed that women's basketball would be so popular as it as been around here and other parts of the country? All you need is an interested audience. With the country's continuing demographic shift, that interested audience is growing.

 

[TheDoggPound]

In game average attendance for MLS in 2013 was 18,500, which is on par with both the NBA and NHL. So there is definitely sustained interest. The challenge has been TV viewership for MLS ,which has been horrendous, unlike viewership for the World Cup and several qualifiers (USA/Mexico had a 1.9 rating). The article linked below addresses that issue better than I can.

http://thebiglead.com/2013/11/12/mls-tv-ratings-are-lower-than-the-wnbas-can-the-league-do-anything-to-improve-them/

Sorry if anyone's said this already but 18,500 for 17 homes games isn't the same as 18,500 for 41.

 

[Husky25]

I think we're actually looking at 2 different things. I certainly wasn't trying to compare the NHL with MSL. I was just commenting on the dropoff in the quality of play following world class events. I just know that friends of mine who never watch hockey will watch the Olympics and comment on how (usually) the hockey is exciting. They then tell me two weeks later they tried to watch a game but quit after 1 period because it was boring and not on the level they had watched at the Olympics. The cycle generally repeats every 4 years. But whatever...

Also it wasn't a shot at the Sabres, or Hurricanes for that matter, they just happened to be playing the first game back after the break. Of course it was a makeup game so it certainly wasn't what the league had in mind either.

The gap between the quality of play between the Olympics and the NHL really isn't large as compared to gap between the World Cup and MLS and using the first game back after break as a basis for your analysis between two sub-sub par teams really isn't fair either. The best players in the world don't pine for a spot in the MLS. If they play there, it's to hold on a few more years. The best players in the world all dream about playing in the NHL. I liken the MLS as soccer's version of the KHL (Russian hockey league).

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I'm a soccer fan and not butt hurt at all. It's an interesting debate and I understand your point: the "soccer buzz" has been around for a while. That said, the "buzz" has always centered on America's changing demographics. Those demographics are still changing and the sport is gaining popularity. Even a decade ago, the only English Premier League games that you could find were tape delay games played days earlier and only aired really late at night or during the day when everybody works. Now, there is a major sports network that airs games LIVE. Not just the elite games either, but we get to see Fulham vs Aston Villa (or other less recognizable clubs).

To each is own over their entertainment preferences. If someone doesn't like soccer, it's all good. But to deny that the sport is gaining popularity is a bit misguided I think. 30 years ago, would you ever have guessed that women's basketball would be so popular as it as been around here and other parts of the country? All you need is an interested audience. With the country's continuing demographic shift, that interested audience is growing.

All well and good but I've already stated that soccer is more popular today than it was 10 years ago in the US.

 

[bc puckett]

The gap between the quality of play between the Olympics and the NHL really isn't large as compared to gap between the World Cup and MLS and using the first game back after break as a basis for your analysis between two sub-sub par teams really isn't fair either. The best players in the world don't pine for a spot in the MLS. If they play there, it's to hold on a few more years. The best players in the world all dream about playing in the NHL. I liken the MLS as soccer's version of the KHL (Russian hockey league).

I wasn't basing my analysis on Buffalo-Carolina. It just happened to be the first game after the break. If it had been LA/Chicago I would have mentioned that The point is the same the quality of play isn't the same. I also mentioned in one of my posts, which I don't really feel like looking for, that it is much more difficult for the MLS to hold the casual fan as the dropoff in play is more dramatic from the World Cup than the Olympics as the NHL is the top league in the world while the MLS is probably number 4, 5, 6 ?????

So I completely agree about the status of the leagues. Hell I even used the followin this morning

Since hockey is my favorite sport let me use that as an analogy. Forgetting that after 1980 everyone became huge hockey fans and there were going to be rinks on every street corner, which obviously never happened as the interest faded quickly for the bandwagon types let's use the last two Winter Olympics as a comparable to the World Cup. You take the best players in the world playing for their country at the highest level and the sport looks great. The casual fan is drawn in and is interested for a least two weeks. TV ratings go through the roof especially for the U.S /Canada game in 2010. What happens next? The players go back to their own teams most to the NHL. Now even though the NHL is the best league in the world the quality of play drops, (the first post-Olympic break game this year was Carolina-Buffalo and was painful) and the casual fan who tunes in wonders what happen to the game he saw in the Olympics. Interest and ratings return to previous levels for the next 3 plus years. Now how are people watching the best teams/players perform in the World Cup going to react to the MLS which from what I've been told is the 5th or 6th best league in the world?

 

[ZooCougar]

Sorry if anyone's said this already but 18,500 for 17 homes games isn't the same as 18,500 for 41.

You're right. 18,500 for 41 in 40,000+ seat stadiums is pretty bad.

 

[J187Money]

There are a lot of people that will revolve their schedule around an EPL match that wouldn't go 10 minutes out of their way to go to an MLS game.

 

[ZooCougar]

I wasn't basing my analysis on Buffalo-Carolina. It just happened to be the first game after the break. If it had been LA/Chicago I would have mentioned that The point is the same the quality of play isn't the same. I also mentioned in one of my posts, which I don't really feel like looking for, that it is much more difficult for the MLS to hold the casual fan as the dropoff in play is more dramatic from the World Cup than the Olympics as the NHL is the top league in the world while the MLS is probably number 4, 5, 6 ?????

So I completely agree about the status of the leagues. Hell I even used the followin this morning

Since hockey is my favorite sport let me use that as an analogy. Forgetting that after 1980 everyone became huge hockey fans and there were going to be rinks on every street corner, which obviously never happened as the interest faded quickly for the bandwagon types let's use the last two Winter Olympics as a comparable to the World Cup. You take the best players in the world playing for their country at the highest level and the sport looks great. The casual fan is drawn in and is interested for a least two weeks. TV ratings go through the roof especially for the U.S /Canada game in 2010. What happens next? The players go back to their own teams most to the NHL. Now even though the NHL is the best league in the world the quality of play drops, (the first post-Olympic break game this year was Carolina-Buffalo and was painful) and the casual fan who tunes in wonders what happen to the game he saw in the Olympics. Interest and ratings return to previous levels for the next 3 plus years. Now how are people watching the best teams/players perform in the World Cup going to react to the MLS which from what I've been told is the 5th or 6th best league in the world?

If MLS is really the 5th or 6th best league in the world, behind only EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga and a couple others then that is pretty amazing. I would love to see the breakdown on that, as a casual fan of the MLS who roots for the league as a whole that would be a pretty incredible achievement.

That being said, after the 2002 World Cup where the USMNT made it to the quarters, MLS and many of the players on that squad got a nice bump. Since that team was heavy on MLS personnel it gave the league which basically still owned most of the teams a huge boost in promoting. It was also a pretty big turning point for the league in that it generated the construction of many of the MLS's stadiums that we have now. Playing in half empty NFL stadiums on smaller fields was just bad optics. Once the stadium model proved successful everything kind of snowballed from there.

The other thing that helped is that since player contracts for most teams were with the league, the league could sell players to rich European clubs for a profit. Now we're at a point where players like Michael Bradley and Clint Dempsey can play domestically for a competitive salary. Back in 2002 there was a salary cap and the salary for players like Bradley and Dempsey were a fantasy!

The next game I am going to is in mid July and I expect the house to be packed because KC is playing the LA Galaxy. Hopefully Besler and Zusi will be healthy and there will be a ton of hype for that match.

 

[ZooCougar]

There are a lot of people that will revolve their schedule around an EPL match that wouldn't go 10 minutes out of their way to go to an MLS game.

Pretty much. There are really two distinct groups of fans here. Some of the biggest critics of MLS in America are soccer fans that believe that MLS is beneath them, which is a shame, but I get it. I also am a fan of open wheel and sports car racing. F1 is a far superior product than Indycar and any sports car race that doesn't have Audi Team Joest is second rate!

 

[Waquoit]

There are a lot of people that will revolve their schedule around an EPL match that wouldn't go 10 minutes out of their way to go to an MLS game.

Isn't that bit like saying you would never go to a college game because you watch the NFL?

 

[J187Money]

Isn't that bit like saying you would never go to a college game because you watch the NFL?

You don't think that's why people don't go to UCONN football games? I'm pretty sure that there are more than 25,000 people glued to their TVs on Sunday in CT. In addition, I'd be surprised if there wasn't 10-15K each week in CT that are traveling to Foxboro or NJ for Pats/Jets/Giants games each week that wouldn't come to the Rent for free.

 

[J187Money]

No question soccer is gaining in popularity. No question that it will continue to grow. But it still a niche sport, and even young kids take it or leave it.

My oldest - 14 - said to me over the weekend - "they kick the ball one way, they kick the ball the other way, big deal"...but he was raised by me, and I'm a FB/BB/baseball fan. I really enjoy the World Cup, just like I really enjoy the NHL Playoffs - but I'd never go to an MLS game.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if MLS was drawing 40K/game 20 years from now.

 

[Husky25]

Isn't that bit like saying you would never go to a college game because you watch the NFL?

It's more like saying you would never go to a Rockcats game because you watch Major League Baseball.

College and Pro football have just enough differences where I think they are still different sports. There are at least different rules and somewhat different styles of play.

 

[whaler11]

Things just don't go well in Hartford do they? They get a women's national team friendly at Rentschler and it competes with the Travelers and the World Cup on TV.

Place is starved for sports all summer and the few events overlap.

 

[uconnbill]

Good thing the state isn't paying.

If your talking about the stadium in Hartford every tax payer will be paying for it.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Soccer has a place in the American sports world. It wont ever take over for the NFL/College Football.....but neither will baseball, hockey, basketball, golf, lacrosse, or women's full contact karate. I have never in my lifetime heard anyone disparage those other sports by suggesting they have no chance to overtake NFL/College Football. I find it puzzling for those who wish to take shots at the game insist on purpetuating the false strawman......it ain't soccer fans.

MLS....It will never surpass European leagues in terms of quality, but serves its purpose well in giving american players a professional environment in which to play/develop, and make their way into better leagues.

 

[whaler11]

If your talking about the stadium in Hartford every tax payer will be paying for it.

Without even considering whatever crazy logic is driving that concept... it's bit different then saying the state should spend the money differently since they aren't the ones bonding the project.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Soccer has a place in the American sports world. It wont ever take over for the NFL/College Football.....but neither will baseball, hockey, basketball, golf, lacrosse, or women's full contact karate. I have never in my lifetime heard anyone disparage those other sports by suggesting they have no chance to overtake NFL/College Football. I find it puzzling for those who wish to take shots at the game insist on purpetuating the false strawman.it ain't soccer fans.

MLS....It will never surpass European leagues in terms of quality, but serves its purpose well in giving american players a professional environment in which to play/develop, and make their way into better leagues.

You're pretty much saying what I am: soccer is a niche sport but will never gain enough traction in the US to be considered a "P4" sport.

I admit I get a rise out of taunting soccer fans but it's only because they've been singing the same tune for 30 years and they tend to look down their collective noses at non soccer fans. See this thread as Exhibit A.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

You're pretty much saying what I am: soccer is a niche sport but will never gain enough traction in the US to be considered a "P4" sport.

I admit I get a rise out of taunting soccer fans but it's only because they've been singing the same tune for 30 years and they tend to look down their collective noses at non soccer fans. See this thread as Exhibit A.

I not really saying anything close to what you are saying.

 

[rich1122]

As a Republican, the soccer haters sound like the people on Fox News that were actually surprised that Romney lost, surprised that people younger than the age of 25 actually exist, surprised that people actually use twitter and don't get that Facebook is for old people. It's like they are perpetually three steps behind.

You my friend are a complete .

 

[bc puckett]

You're pretty much saying what I am: soccer is a niche sport but will never gain enough traction in the US to be considered a "P4" sport.

I admit I get a rise out of taunting soccer fans but it's only because they've been singing the same tune for 30 years and they tend to look down their collective noses at non soccer fans. See this thread as Exhibit A.

What he said

 

[ZooCougar]

You my friend are a complete .

Ok. The truth must hurt.

 

[Ozone21]

They should put a MLS team at Al Bell Field at Tunxis Mead in Farmington