OT: Chances of Hartford getting MLS team?

[junglehusky]

I think there is a bit of moving the goalposts with the ball and stick curmudgeons as well. MLS will never surpass the NFL, and the USMNT will probably not win a world cup in my lifetime, but those were not and are not the objectives. I can see how a non-soccer fan would assume that they are, but "having a stable domestic league" doesn't have the same ring to it.

By the way... when is the USA going to win a World Baseball Classic? We haven't even made the finals even though we host the damn thing.

 

[ZooCougar]

All good to disagree Zoo. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that soccer isn't more popular than it was in the US 10 years ago.

Looking forward to 2018 when you tell me that soccer is the next big thing.

I am not saying it's the next, because it already is.

 

[Husky25]

Hate to say it but this is spot on.

The problems with the "Next big thing" argument is multifaceted. Puckett likens the World Cup phenomenon with Olympic hockey and he has a point, except that not only is the NHL indeed the best league, it also resides in North America. Fans with means have a deep attachment to their local teams because 1) they've been there for 75 years, and the game is played locally at the highest skill level.

The MLS has been in operation for just under 20 years and when the best players disperse back to their club teams after the World Cup is done, those teams are in Europe and South America. The best players in the world do not end up in North America because the best league in the World is not the MLS. Case in point, Kyle Beckerman has been an MLS All-Star for 7 years running and at 32 Y.O., this is his first World Cup. The inference is not hard to pick up. David Beckham only came to the MLS after he gave his best game to Manchester United and Real Madrid. Americans like to watch the best and think they deserve it.

The article that Conehead linked refers to timing of games and he is absolutely correct. If you ask a baseball fan what time they would typically tune in, they would say 7:00 on weeknights and 1:00 on the weekends. Football? Sunday 1:00, 4:00 or 8:30 and Monday - 9:00. Basketball? 7:00, Hockey? 7:00. College Football? Saturdays at 12:00 or 3:30. Maybe a primetime game at 7:30. The MLS seems to be quite haphazard, to be sure.

The MLS and EPL maybe on the ticker but the talking heads don't cover it. I'm a fan of all teams Boston and New England (except for football. I follow the Pats, but my favorite team has been the Redskins since I was 6), so naturally I listen to WEEI...and because it comes in perfectly on my 40 minute commute to work in SE CT. The Morning Show (which is grating at times to begin with), mocks soccer and their fans. The rest of the "personalities" talk about the World Cup, but you can tell what their knowledge level is and they barely give the Revolution a passing comment. It's the same with Francesa. He doesn't have the first clue about soccer, so it is barely covered on The FAN (I digress, but I don't know how you New York fans deal with him. The Fat Man is insufferable.). Incidentally, I had the same experience with College basketball during tourney time. As with almost anything else, what is not understood is mocked.

No, the connection should not be made from the World Cup every 4 years to MLS or even the EPL. There's a missing step in there. The Connection should be from the World Cup to World Cup qualifying, international friendlies, and other Confederation tournaments first. Then normalize the MLS television schedule so that matches are easy to find.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think there is a bit of moving the goalposts with the ball and stick curmudgeons as well. MLS will never surpass the NFL, and the USMNT will probably not win a world cup in my lifetime, but those were not and are not the objectives. I can see how a non-soccer fan would assume that they are, but "having a stable domestic league" doesn't have the same ring to it.

By the way... when is the USA going to win a World Baseball Classic? We haven't even made the finals even though we host the damn thing.

Pretty much, and soccer will probably never be popular with the gigantic pick up truck with the bone collector sticker crowd.

But it's already pretty popular with the straight teet and SUV crowd and they have more money.

Honestly, if these curmudgeons went to a KC, LA, Portland or Seattle game they would immediately feel stupid and ridiculous.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I think there is a bit of moving the goalposts with the ball and stick curmudgeons as well. MLS will never surpass the NFL, and the USMNT will probably not win a world cup in my lifetime, but those were not and are not the objectives. I can see how a non-soccer fan would assume that they are, but "having a stable domestic league" doesn't have the same ring to it.

By the way... when is the USA going to win a World Baseball Classic? We haven't even made the finals even though we host the damn thing.

First things first, I'm not a baseball guy.

Secondly, I've been hearing that soccer is going to be the next big thing since I was a kid. When I was a kid (over 30 years ago), soccer was already the most played youth sport over baseball, football, basketball, hockey, etc. It will never be as popular here as the other major sports leagues. I don't know why soccer fans get so butt hurt over this instead of just enjoying the niche sport that it is.

 

[ZooCougar]

The problems with the "Next big thing" argument is multifaceted. Puckett likens the World Cup phenomenon with Olympic hockey and he has a point, except that not only is the NHL indeed the best league, it also resides in North America. Fans with means have a deep attachment to their local teams because 1) they've been there for 75 years, and the game is played locally at the highest skill level.

The MLS has been in operation for just under 20 years and when the best players disperse back to their club teams after the World Cup is done, those teams are in Europe and South America. The best players in the world do not end up in North America because the best league in the World is not the MLS. Case in point, Kyle Beckerman has been an MLS All-Star for 7 years running and at 32 Y.O., this is his first World Cup. The inference is not hard to pick up. David Beckham only came to the MLS after he gave his best game to Manchester United and Real Madrid. Americans like to watch the best and think they deserve it.

The article that Conehead linked refers to timing of games and he is absolutely correct. If you ask a baseball fan what time they would typically tune in, they would say 7:00 on weeknights and 1:00 on the weekends. Football? Sunday 1:00, 4:00 or 8:30 and Monday - 9:00. Basketball? 7:00, Hockey? 7:00. College Football? Saturdays at 12:00 or 3:30. Maybe a primetime game at 7:30. The MLS seems to be quite haphazard, to be sure.

The MLS and EPL maybe on the ticker but the talking heads don't cover it. I'm a fan of all teams Boston and New England (except for football. I follow the Pats, but my favorite team has been the Redskins since I was 6), so naturally I listen to WEEI...and because it comes in perfectly on my 40 minute commute to work in SE CT. The Morning Show (which is grating at times to begin with), mocks soccer and their fans. The rest of the "personalities" talk about the World Cup, but you can tell what their knowledge level is and they barely give the Revolution a passing comment. It's the same with Francesa. He doesn't have the first clue about soccer, so it is barely covered on The FAN (I digress, but I don't know how you New York fans deal with him. The Fat Man is insufferable.). Incidentally, I had the same experience with College basketball during tourney time. As with almost anything else, what is not understood is mocked.

No, the connection should not be made from the World Cup every 4 years to MLS or even the EPL. There's a missing step in there. The Connection should be from the World Cup to World Cup qualifying, international friendlies, and other Confederation tournaments first. Then normalize the MLS television schedule so that matches are easy to find.

Soccer fans probably don't listen to the Fan or Francesa. I grew up listening to the Fan and I can't stand it anymore because all they talk about is Derek Jeter and Eli. It's just awful.

 

[Husky25]

I think there is a bit of moving the goalposts with the ball and stick curmudgeons as well. MLS will never surpass the NFL, and the USMNT will probably not win a world cup in my lifetime, but those were not and are not the objectives. I can see how a non-soccer fan would assume that they are, but "having a stable domestic league" doesn't have the same ring to it.

By the way... when is the USA going to win a World Baseball Classic? We haven't even made the finals even though we host the damn thing.

The USA hasn't won an Olympic Gold in Hockey for 34 years, but when the Olympics are said and done, the best players come back to the United States (or Canada) to finish out their "club" season. Same with baseball. The best players in the world want to make the Major Leagues. They don't strive to play for the Hiroshima Toyo Carp. Basketball? You can make a good living over seas but it's the NBA or bust.

 

[ZooCougar]

First things first, I'm not a baseball guy.

Secondly, I've been hearing that soccer is going to be the next big thing since I was a kid. When I was a kid (over 30 years ago), soccer was already the most played youth sport over baseball, football, basketball, hockey, etc. It will never be as popular here as the other major sports leagues. I don't know why soccer fans get so butt hurt over this instead of just enjoying the niche sport that it is.

I don't understand why people like you are so threatened by soccer. You can't even acknowledge the establishment of an enduring professional league that is putting a dent in the attendance of other attractions.

Saying it isn't the next big thing, when it already is a big thing seems ridiculous.

 

[Husky25]

Soccer fans probably don't listen to the Fan or Francesa. I grew up listening to the Fan and I can't stand it anymore because all they talk about is Derek Jeter and Eli. It's just awful.

That's just my point. Soccer is not mainstream because it is not discussed in the mainstream.

 

[Bonehead]

As MLS continues to improve and more players with name recognition come home, the league will have more juice. But MLS has a good problem that other leagues don't have, the in person experience is superior to watching at home. That's been the key to those big attendance figures.

Not being a Richard - but royals avg 21000+ and will go higher now that quality is better on field. The MLS team avg is 19000 and change.

Also agree that MLS is more affordable - that's due to the lack of power among the 4 major sports. As interest in MLS grows so will salaries for named players and stadiums sizes which in turn will raise cost to end user. If neymar and renoldo come play for the KC MLS franchise your costs will rise.

I agree it's growing and Seattle MLS avg is a whopping 40000 - that was the only MLS city I found outdrawing MLB using league avg numbers from MLS.com and MLB.com.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think there is a bit of moving the goalposts with the ball and stick curmudgeons as well. MLS will never surpass the NFL, and the USMNT will probably not win a world cup in my lifetime, but those were not and are not the objectives. I can see how a non-soccer fan would assume that they are, but "having a stable domestic league" doesn't have the same ring to it.

By the way... when is the USA going to win a World Baseball Classic? We haven't even made the finals even though we host the damn thing.

Another thing most of the stick and ball curmudgeons don't get is that the MLS's long term strategy was to establish franchises in medium to major markets, build soccer specific stadiums that seat 15-20,000 people and grow the fan base.

All of that has happened and more. MLS will continue to expand intelligently. It's major shortcoming remains tv ratings, other than that it has surpassed nearly everyone's expectations.

They never set out to surpass the NFL... That would be an absurd objective.

 

[ZooCougar]

Not being a Richard - but royals avg 21000+ and will go higher now that quality is better on field. The MLS team avg is 19000 and change.

Also agree that MLS is more affordable - that's due to the lack of power among the 4 major sports. As interest in MLS grows so will salaries for named players and stadiums sizes which in turn will raise cost to end user. If neymar and renoldo come play for the KC MLS franchise your costs will rise.

I agree it's growing and Seattle MLS avg is a whopping 40000 - that was the only MLS city I found outdrawing MLB using league avg numbers from MLS.com and MLB.com.

That may be this year's figures. But last year Sporting KC outdrew the Royals. And living here I can tell you that the soccer franchise has more juice than the baseball club.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Soccer fans probably don't listen to the Fan or Francesa. I grew up listening to the Fan and I can't stand it anymore because all they talk about is Derek Jeter and Eli. It's just awful.

Francesca will talk about what people want to hear. He'd talk about soccer if his consumers demanded it.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

That may be this year's figures. But last year Sporting KC outdrew the Royals. And living here I can tell you that the soccer franchise has more juice than the baseball club.

Dude, I like you too, but you have a weird soccer inferiority complex.

 

[ZooCougar]

Not being a Richard - but royals avg 21000+ and will go higher now that quality is better on field. The MLS team avg is 19000 and change.

Also agree that MLS is more affordable - that's due to the lack of power among the 4 major sports. As interest in MLS grows so will salaries for named players and stadiums sizes which in turn will raise cost to end user. If neymar and renoldo come play for the KC MLS franchise your costs will rise.

I agree it's growing and Seattle MLS avg is a whopping 40000 - that was the only MLS city I found outdrawing MLB using league avg numbers from MLS.com and MLB.com.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11976443/1/5-major-league-soccer-teams-that-outdraw-baseball.html

You might find this interesting.

 

[bc puckett]

The problems with the "Next big thing" argument is multifaceted. Puckett likens the World Cup phenomenon with Olympic hockey and he has a point, except that not only is the NHL indeed the best league, it also resides in North America. Fans with means have a deep attachment to their local teams because 1) they've been there for 75 years, and the game is played locally at the highest skill level.

My point wasn't about the fans with deep attachments to their local teams it was about the casual fans who tune into special events such as the Olympics or World Cup see a game played at the highest level then decide to watch a regular season game and are disappointed at the level of play which doesn't approach what they have just seen.

In some respects the NHL sending it's players to the Olympics actually works against it. People see the best hockey in the world for two weeks and two days later they get Carolina-Buffalo. The fans with deep attachments watch but the fan from the Olympics tunes in and it's barely the same game. I'm sure the curious soccer fan would feel the same way tuning into an MLS game following the World Cup

 

[Bonehead]

That may be this year's figures. But last year Sporting KC outdrew the Royals. And living here I can tell you that the soccer franchise has more juice than the baseball club.

I can't disagree with the juice part - I don't live there. But this year there is only 1 MLS team outdrawing their MLB counterpart by city. And I don't watch baseball just saying that those figures of outdrawing 6-7 teams I am not seeing. I searched it because I found it impressive but not happening in 2014.

Hartford chance to me - 50/50 depending on where the $ is supposed to come from and Krafts sign off.

 

[Waquoit]

Well he is being a but I kinda agree with him too. We hear this every 4 years now with the World Cup.

What we hear every 4 years is soccer haters becoming soccer experts with their proclamations on how soccer will never make it in America. Soccer HAS made it in America and it's going to keep growing. I agree with my brother who said he was done trying to explain soccer to the those who don't want to like it. The bashers now all sound like those old guys who brag about never being on the internet. Fine, but you don't sound amusing or cute anymore. You just sound old and out-of-touch.

 

[ZooCougar]

Francesca will talk about what people want to hear. He'd talk about soccer if his consumers demanded it.

Yeah, his degenerate fan base probably doesn't want to hear about it, and soccer fans aren't interested in Francesa's take on soccer.

I love listening to Jim Rome, he hates soccer, that's ok by me.

 

[ZooCougar]

Dude, I like you too, but you have a weird soccer inferiority complex.

Not really. I'm just stating fact.

 

[ZooCougar]

I can't disagree with the juice part - I don't live there. But this year there is only 1 MLS team outdrawing their MLB counterpart by city. And I don't watch baseball just saying that those figures of outdrawing 6-7 teams I am not seeing. I searched it because I found it impressive but not happening in 2014.

Hartford chance to me - 50/50 depending on where the $ is supposed to come from and Krafts sign off.

It wouldn't surprise me it baseball is cooking their books. When those figures were announced last season, they were pretty embarrassing to Bud Selig. Cowherd had a field day with his response. Selig actually said that baseball never really was the most popular sport so it was no big deal.

 

[ZooCougar]

As a Republican, the soccer haters sound like the people on Fox News that were actually surprised that Romney lost, surprised that people younger than the age of 25 actually exist, surprised that people actually use twitter and don't get that Facebook is for old people. It's like they are perpetually three steps behind.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

What we hear every 4 years is soccer haters becoming soccer experts with their proclamations on how soccer will never make it in America. Soccer HAS made it in America and it's going to keep growing. I agree with my brother who said he was done trying to explain soccer to the those who don't want to like it. The bashers now all sound like those old guys who brag about never being on the internet. Fine, but you don't sound amusing or cute anymore. You just sound old and out-of-touch.

LOL. OK.

 

[Bonehead]

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11976443/1/5-major-league-soccer-teams-that-outdraw-baseball.html

You might find this interesting.

Ok - fair enough but they aren't comparing by teams in the same city - which is a fair comparison as having the draw of same demographics. And all of the MLB teams have higher attendance figures so far this year. Some will drop as team plays bad. Houston's numbers are extremely better this year.

I could outdraw the Marlins and Rays by using my Facebook page and having a kegger. Move either of those teams to Columbus and I am sure they out draw the MLS team in same city.

Also fans are fair weather - if the KC soccer team sucked as bad as the Royals did for the same length of time I would expect an attendance drop - you??

I am impressed at the stadium percentage full figures in MLS - except NE NY and couple other east coast teams. But again they are mostly all playing in 20000 seat stadiums - that's why it's still affordable. If KC continues to have juice they expand stadium or play elsewhere which will increase costs.

 

[ZooCougar]

Ok - fair enough but they aren't comparing by teams in the same city - which is a fair comparison as having the draw of same demographics. And all of the MLB teams have higher attendance figures so far this year. Some will drop as team plays bad. Houston's numbers are extremely better this year.

I could outdraw the Marlins and Rays by using my Facebook page and having a kegger. Move either of those teams to Columbus and I am sure they out draw the MLS team in same city.

Also fans are fair weather - if the KC soccer team sucked as bad as the Royals did for the same length of time I would expect an attendance drop - you??

I am impressed at the stadium percentage full figures in MLS - except NE NY and couple other east coast teams. But again they are mostly all playing in 20000 seat stadiums - that's why it's still affordable. If KC continues to have juice they expand stadium or play elsewhere which will increase costs.

I don't think Sporting KC's attendance would drop as far as you think. When I lived here the last time for school, I went to games when they were still the Wizards, and they sucked. They played in a minor league baseball park and filled the place and then some. The had these field level seats that were awesome. We bought those for the LA Galaxy game when Donovan and Beckham came to town. The minor league park is also next to Legends which has entertainment and shopping, so most people made an evening of it.

Again, they are playing in 20,000 seat stadiums, the league picked that number for a reason. For one, soccer is better for spectators in a soccer specific stadium, secondly they weren't foolish enough to out NFL the NFL. I don't even think that they expected to beat out MLB in certain sectors.