OT: Chances of Hartford getting MLS team?

[bc puckett]

I agree that concussions are a concern in soccer. That is a documented fact. but, you provided no facts that soccer is useless in the US. If the TV ratings for the US/Ghana match were 6.2 and BC football's TV average ratings for football in 2013 was a 1.2m what\ does that make BC football? And yes, UConn's ratings were worse, 0.6; but that was still better that several P-5 teams (Cal, Iowa St, Kansas, Maryland, Rutgers, Utah, Virginia, Wake).

I neversaid soccer was "useless" in the United States. I simply pointed out that every 4 years we hear the same thing that soccer is "exploding" and is going to become the next huge sport. Sorry if I don't believe it.

Since hockey is my favorite sport let me use that as an analogy. Forgetting that after 1980 everyone became huge hockey fans and there were going to be rinks on every street corner, which obviously never happened as the interest faded quickly for the bandwagon types let's use the last two Winter Olympics as a comparable to the World Cup. You take the best players in the world playing for their country at the highest level and the sport looks great. The casual fan is drawn in and is interested for a least two weeks. TV ratings go through the roof especially for the U.S /Canada game in 2010. What happens next? The players go back to their own teams most to the NHL. Now even though the NHL is the best league in the world the quality of play drops, (the first post-Olympic break game this year was Carolina-Buffalo and was painful) and the casual fan who tunes in wonders what happen to the game he saw in the Olympics. Interest and ratings return to previous levels for the next 3 plus years. Now how are people watching the best teams/players perform in the World Cup going to react to the MLS which from what I've been told is the 5th or 6th best league in the world?


As for the ratings you're really trying to compare the ratings for a once every 4 year worldwide event to regular season college football? Seriously. Also why in the hell would I care about B.C.'s ratings for anything.

 

[bc puckett]

I would not suggest someone go on the Alabama Tide site with the handle "Auburn Hair," or the UNC site with the handle "Duke of Durham," or the Pitt site with the handle "Mountain Boy" or the WV site with the handle "Brad Pitt" or the Syracuse site with the handle "4 Rings" or the Ohio State site with the handle "Calumet Wolverines" or the UCLA site with the handle "Trojan Magnum."

I'm sorry my name offend you and the flock. It's simply the name of a character in a Dan Jenkins trilogy of very good football novels and one not so great movie which use TCU as a backdrop. So being a TCU fan it was an easy choice. To be honest I never gave the BC part a thought

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I neversaid soccer was "useless" in the United States. I simply pointed out that every 4 years we hear the same thing that soccer is "exploding" and is going to become the next huge sport. Sorry if I don't believe it.

Since hockey is my favorite sport let me use that as an analogy. Forgetting that after 1980 everyone became huge hockey fans and there were going to be rinks on every street corner, which obviously never happened as the interest faded quickly for the bandwagon types let's use the last two Winter Olympics as a comparable to the World Cup. You take the best players in the world playing for their country at the highest level and the sport looks great. The casual fan is drawn in and is interested for a least two weeks. TV ratings go through the roof especially for the U.S /Canada game in 2010. What happens next? The players go back to their own teams most to the NHL. Now even though the NHL is the best league in the world the quality of play drops, (the first post-Olympic break game this year was Carolina-Buffalo and was painful) and the casual fan who tunes in wonders what happen to the game he saw in the Olympics. Interest and ratings return to previous levels for the next 3 plus years. Now how are people watching the best teams/players perform in the World Cup going to react to the MLS which from what I've been told is the 5th or 6th best league in the world?


As for the ratings you're really trying to compare the ratings for a once every 4 year worldwide event to regular season college football? Seriously. Also why in the hell would I care about B.C.'s ratings for anything.

Hate to say it but this is spot on.

 

[bc puckett]

I don't care what his/her affiliation is, he/she is on ignore over what he/she replied to Zoo. Zoo asked a question, this troll answered with "do you still beat your wife?". Our board has had its fair share of fans from other conferences come over here and contribute with no problems. But I've grown exceptionally tired of these okielite types that come over here just to be a d0uche. The key is to identify them early. This particular d0uche made it easy to identify him/her with his/her response to Zoo so on ignore they went. Judging by the amount of comments directed at this troll after I put him/her on ignore, my guess is that the troll is still making similar d0uche comments.

Is being "ignored by you supposed to be some kind of punishment ?

 

[upstater]

Hate to say it but this is spot on.

Sorry is increasing rapidly in popularity right now. The ratings for pro soccer leagues (not MLS) are higher. MLS teams are becoming more popular. Development is ramping up.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I neversaid soccer was "useless" in the United States. I simply pointed out that every 4 years we hear the same thing that soccer is "exploding" and is going to become the next huge sport. Sorry if I don't believe it.

Since hockey is my favorite sport let me use that as an analogy. Forgetting that after 1980 everyone became huge hockey fans and there were going to be rinks on every street corner, which obviously never happened as the interest faded quickly for the bandwagon types let's use the last two Winter Olympics as a comparable to the World Cup. You take the best players in the world playing for their country at the highest level and the sport looks great. The casual fan is drawn in and is interested for a least two weeks. TV ratings go through the roof especially for the U.S /Canada game in 2010. What happens next? The players go back to their own teams most to the NHL. Now even though the NHL is the best league in the world the quality of play drops, (the first post-Olympic break game this year was Carolina-Buffalo and was painful) and the casual fan who tunes in wonders what happen to the game he saw in the Olympics. Interest and ratings return to previous levels for the next 3 plus years. Now how are people watching the best teams/players perform in the World Cup going to react to the MLS which from what I've been told is the 5th or 6th best league in the world?


As for the ratings you're really trying to compare the ratings for a once every 4 year worldwide event to regular season college football? Seriously. Also why in the hell would I care about B.C.'s ratings for anything.

In game average attendance for MLS in 2013 was 18,500, which is on par with both the NBA and NHL. So there is definitely sustained interest. The challenge has been TV viewership for MLS ,which has been horrendous, unlike viewership for the World Cup and several qualifiers (USA/Mexico had a 1.9 rating). The article linked below addresses that issue better than I can.

http://thebiglead.com/2013/11/12/mls-tv-ratings-are-lower-than-the-wnbas-can-the-league-do-anything-to-improve-them/

By the way, when is Kraft going to finally move forward with a soccer only stadium for the Revs? Boston is a very good soccer market and the Revs have a solid following; but, playing at the Razor both in terms of size and location are horrendous. Revere and Somervile have been begging for a soccer only stadium now for 3 or so years. MLS wants it. What’s Kraft’s problem?

 

[bc puckett]

In game average attendance for MLS in 2013 was 18,500, which is on par with both the NBA and NHL. So there is definitely sustained interest. The challenge has been TV viewership for MLS ,which has been horrendous, unlike viewership for the World Cup and several qualifiers (USA/Mexico had a 1.9 rating). The article linked below addresses that issue better than I can.

http://thebiglead.com/2013/11/12/mls-tv-ratings-are-lower-than-the-wnbas-can-the-league-do-anything-to-improve-them/

By the way, when is Kraft going to finally move forward with a soccer only stadium for the Revs? Boston is a very good soccer market and the Revs have a solid following; but, playing at the Razor both in terms of size and location are horrendous. Revere and Somervile have been begging for a soccer only stadium now for 3 or so years. MLS wants it. What’s Kraft’s problem?

Like anyone else I think he would like somebody else to pay for it or a least contribute and so far he's found no takers.

 

[ZooCougar]

Hate to say it but this is spot on.

It's really not.

Since 2002 there have been many soccer specific stadiums built for MLS and other Leagues in the US.

We get MLS, EPL and other league scores on the bottom of screens on every sports network.

10 years ago you might be hard pressed to find soccer on TV, they were on niche networks on Fox Soccer Channel, now it's on ESPN, NBC Sports, FOX, Time Warner Sports.

MLS outdraws MLB in 6-7 cities now, including Kansas City.

MLS just signed major new TV contract with two networks, forgot the $ value but it wasn't insignificant.

I hjave been to many MLS games. They are fun and affordable. I can take my girlfriend and her son to see Sporting KC for less than a hundred bucks and sit in a beautiful world class stadium that doesn't have a bad seat in the house.... that's if I can even get tickets. The place is always packed.

On Sunday, there will be 20,000 people in KC Power and Light district watching the game. It's huge here. Nobody even gives a crap about the Royals anymore!




That's just for starters. Sorry Jimmy, I like you, but you stick and ball curmudgeons are wrong on this.

 

[ZooCougar]

In game average attendance for MLS in 2013 was 18,500, which is on par with both the NBA and NHL. So there is definitely sustained interest. The challenge has been TV viewership for MLS ,which has been horrendous, unlike viewership for the World Cup and several qualifiers (USA/Mexico had a 1.9 rating). The article linked below addresses that issue better than I can.

http://thebiglead.com/2013/11/12/mls-tv-ratings-are-lower-than-the-wnbas-can-the-league-do-anything-to-improve-them/

By the way, when is Kraft going to finally move forward with a soccer only stadium for the Revs? Boston is a very good soccer market and the Revs have a solid following; but, playing at the Razor both in terms of size and location are horrendous. Revere and Somervile have been begging for a soccer only stadium now for 3 or so years. MLS wants it. What’s Kraft’s problem?

As MLS continues to improve and more players with name recognition come home, the league will have more juice. But MLS has a good problem that other leagues don't have, the in person experience is superior to watching at home. That's been the key to those big attendance figures.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

It's really not.

Since 2002 there have been many soccer specific stadiums built for MLS and other Leagues in the US.

We get MLS, EPL and other league scores on the bottom of screens on every sports network.

10 years ago you might be hard pressed to find soccer on TV, they were on niche networks on Fox Soccer Channel, now it's on ESPN, NBC Sports, FOX, Time Warner Sports.

MLS outdraws MLB in 6-7 cities now, including Kansas City.

MLS just signed major new TV contract with two networks, forgot the $ value but it wasn't insignificant.

I hjave been to many MLS games. They are fun and affordable. I can take my girlfriend and her son to see Sporting KC for less than a hundred bucks and sit in a beautiful world class stadium that doesn't have a bad seat in the house.... that's if I can even get tickets. The place is always packed.

On Sunday, there will be 20,000 people in KC Power and Light district watching the game. It's huge here. Nobody even gives a crap about the Royals anymore!




That's just for starters. Sorry Jimmy, I like you, but you stick and ball curmudgeons are wrong on this.

All good to disagree Zoo. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that soccer isn't more popular than it was in the US 10 years ago.

Looking forward to 2018 when you tell me that soccer is the next big thing.

 

[junglehusky]

I think there is a bit of moving the goalposts with the ball and stick curmudgeons as well. MLS will never surpass the NFL, and the USMNT will probably not win a world cup in my lifetime, but those were not and are not the objectives. I can see how a non-soccer fan would assume that they are, but "having a stable domestic league" doesn't have the same ring to it.

By the way... when is the USA going to win a World Baseball Classic? We haven't even made the finals even though we host the damn thing.

 

[ZooCougar]

All good to disagree Zoo. Keep in mind that I'm not arguing that soccer isn't more popular than it was in the US 10 years ago.

Looking forward to 2018 when you tell me that soccer is the next big thing.

I am not saying it's the next, because it already is.

 

[Husky25]

Hate to say it but this is spot on.

The problems with the "Next big thing" argument is multifaceted. Puckett likens the World Cup phenomenon with Olympic hockey and he has a point, except that not only is the NHL indeed the best league, it also resides in North America. Fans with means have a deep attachment to their local teams because 1) they've been there for 75 years, and the game is played locally at the highest skill level.

The MLS has been in operation for just under 20 years and when the best players disperse back to their club teams after the World Cup is done, those teams are in Europe and South America. The best players in the world do not end up in North America because the best league in the World is not the MLS. Case in point, Kyle Beckerman has been an MLS All-Star for 7 years running and at 32 Y.O., this is his first World Cup. The inference is not hard to pick up. David Beckham only came to the MLS after he gave his best game to Manchester United and Real Madrid. Americans like to watch the best and think they deserve it.

The article that Conehead linked refers to timing of games and he is absolutely correct. If you ask a baseball fan what time they would typically tune in, they would say 7:00 on weeknights and 1:00 on the weekends. Football? Sunday 1:00, 4:00 or 8:30 and Monday - 9:00. Basketball? 7:00, Hockey? 7:00. College Football? Saturdays at 12:00 or 3:30. Maybe a primetime game at 7:30. The MLS seems to be quite haphazard, to be sure.

The MLS and EPL maybe on the ticker but the talking heads don't cover it. I'm a fan of all teams Boston and New England (except for football. I follow the Pats, but my favorite team has been the Redskins since I was 6), so naturally I listen to WEEI...and because it comes in perfectly on my 40 minute commute to work in SE CT. The Morning Show (which is grating at times to begin with), mocks soccer and their fans. The rest of the "personalities" talk about the World Cup, but you can tell what their knowledge level is and they barely give the Revolution a passing comment. It's the same with Francesa. He doesn't have the first clue about soccer, so it is barely covered on The FAN (I digress, but I don't know how you New York fans deal with him. The Fat Man is insufferable.). Incidentally, I had the same experience with College basketball during tourney time. As with almost anything else, what is not understood is mocked.

No, the connection should not be made from the World Cup every 4 years to MLS or even the EPL. There's a missing step in there. The Connection should be from the World Cup to World Cup qualifying, international friendlies, and other Confederation tournaments first. Then normalize the MLS television schedule so that matches are easy to find.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think there is a bit of moving the goalposts with the ball and stick curmudgeons as well. MLS will never surpass the NFL, and the USMNT will probably not win a world cup in my lifetime, but those were not and are not the objectives. I can see how a non-soccer fan would assume that they are, but "having a stable domestic league" doesn't have the same ring to it.

By the way... when is the USA going to win a World Baseball Classic? We haven't even made the finals even though we host the damn thing.

Pretty much, and soccer will probably never be popular with the gigantic pick up truck with the bone collector sticker crowd.

But it's already pretty popular with the straight teet and SUV crowd and they have more money.

Honestly, if these curmudgeons went to a KC, LA, Portland or Seattle game they would immediately feel stupid and ridiculous.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I think there is a bit of moving the goalposts with the ball and stick curmudgeons as well. MLS will never surpass the NFL, and the USMNT will probably not win a world cup in my lifetime, but those were not and are not the objectives. I can see how a non-soccer fan would assume that they are, but "having a stable domestic league" doesn't have the same ring to it.

By the way... when is the USA going to win a World Baseball Classic? We haven't even made the finals even though we host the damn thing.

First things first, I'm not a baseball guy.

Secondly, I've been hearing that soccer is going to be the next big thing since I was a kid. When I was a kid (over 30 years ago), soccer was already the most played youth sport over baseball, football, basketball, hockey, etc. It will never be as popular here as the other major sports leagues. I don't know why soccer fans get so butt hurt over this instead of just enjoying the niche sport that it is.

 

[ZooCougar]

The problems with the "Next big thing" argument is multifaceted. Puckett likens the World Cup phenomenon with Olympic hockey and he has a point, except that not only is the NHL indeed the best league, it also resides in North America. Fans with means have a deep attachment to their local teams because 1) they've been there for 75 years, and the game is played locally at the highest skill level.

The MLS has been in operation for just under 20 years and when the best players disperse back to their club teams after the World Cup is done, those teams are in Europe and South America. The best players in the world do not end up in North America because the best league in the World is not the MLS. Case in point, Kyle Beckerman has been an MLS All-Star for 7 years running and at 32 Y.O., this is his first World Cup. The inference is not hard to pick up. David Beckham only came to the MLS after he gave his best game to Manchester United and Real Madrid. Americans like to watch the best and think they deserve it.

The article that Conehead linked refers to timing of games and he is absolutely correct. If you ask a baseball fan what time they would typically tune in, they would say 7:00 on weeknights and 1:00 on the weekends. Football? Sunday 1:00, 4:00 or 8:30 and Monday - 9:00. Basketball? 7:00, Hockey? 7:00. College Football? Saturdays at 12:00 or 3:30. Maybe a primetime game at 7:30. The MLS seems to be quite haphazard, to be sure.

The MLS and EPL maybe on the ticker but the talking heads don't cover it. I'm a fan of all teams Boston and New England (except for football. I follow the Pats, but my favorite team has been the Redskins since I was 6), so naturally I listen to WEEI...and because it comes in perfectly on my 40 minute commute to work in SE CT. The Morning Show (which is grating at times to begin with), mocks soccer and their fans. The rest of the "personalities" talk about the World Cup, but you can tell what their knowledge level is and they barely give the Revolution a passing comment. It's the same with Francesa. He doesn't have the first clue about soccer, so it is barely covered on The FAN (I digress, but I don't know how you New York fans deal with him. The Fat Man is insufferable.). Incidentally, I had the same experience with College basketball during tourney time. As with almost anything else, what is not understood is mocked.

No, the connection should not be made from the World Cup every 4 years to MLS or even the EPL. There's a missing step in there. The Connection should be from the World Cup to World Cup qualifying, international friendlies, and other Confederation tournaments first. Then normalize the MLS television schedule so that matches are easy to find.

Soccer fans probably don't listen to the Fan or Francesa. I grew up listening to the Fan and I can't stand it anymore because all they talk about is Derek Jeter and Eli. It's just awful.

 

[Husky25]

I think there is a bit of moving the goalposts with the ball and stick curmudgeons as well. MLS will never surpass the NFL, and the USMNT will probably not win a world cup in my lifetime, but those were not and are not the objectives. I can see how a non-soccer fan would assume that they are, but "having a stable domestic league" doesn't have the same ring to it.

By the way... when is the USA going to win a World Baseball Classic? We haven't even made the finals even though we host the damn thing.

The USA hasn't won an Olympic Gold in Hockey for 34 years, but when the Olympics are said and done, the best players come back to the United States (or Canada) to finish out their "club" season. Same with baseball. The best players in the world want to make the Major Leagues. They don't strive to play for the Hiroshima Toyo Carp. Basketball? You can make a good living over seas but it's the NBA or bust.

 

[ZooCougar]

First things first, I'm not a baseball guy.

Secondly, I've been hearing that soccer is going to be the next big thing since I was a kid. When I was a kid (over 30 years ago), soccer was already the most played youth sport over baseball, football, basketball, hockey, etc. It will never be as popular here as the other major sports leagues. I don't know why soccer fans get so butt hurt over this instead of just enjoying the niche sport that it is.

I don't understand why people like you are so threatened by soccer. You can't even acknowledge the establishment of an enduring professional league that is putting a dent in the attendance of other attractions.

Saying it isn't the next big thing, when it already is a big thing seems ridiculous.

 

[Husky25]

Soccer fans probably don't listen to the Fan or Francesa. I grew up listening to the Fan and I can't stand it anymore because all they talk about is Derek Jeter and Eli. It's just awful.

That's just my point. Soccer is not mainstream because it is not discussed in the mainstream.

 

[Bonehead]

As MLS continues to improve and more players with name recognition come home, the league will have more juice. But MLS has a good problem that other leagues don't have, the in person experience is superior to watching at home. That's been the key to those big attendance figures.

Not being a Richard - but royals avg 21000+ and will go higher now that quality is better on field. The MLS team avg is 19000 and change.

Also agree that MLS is more affordable - that's due to the lack of power among the 4 major sports. As interest in MLS grows so will salaries for named players and stadiums sizes which in turn will raise cost to end user. If neymar and renoldo come play for the KC MLS franchise your costs will rise.

I agree it's growing and Seattle MLS avg is a whopping 40000 - that was the only MLS city I found outdrawing MLB using league avg numbers from MLS.com and MLB.com.

 

[ZooCougar]

I think there is a bit of moving the goalposts with the ball and stick curmudgeons as well. MLS will never surpass the NFL, and the USMNT will probably not win a world cup in my lifetime, but those were not and are not the objectives. I can see how a non-soccer fan would assume that they are, but "having a stable domestic league" doesn't have the same ring to it.

By the way... when is the USA going to win a World Baseball Classic? We haven't even made the finals even though we host the damn thing.

Another thing most of the stick and ball curmudgeons don't get is that the MLS's long term strategy was to establish franchises in medium to major markets, build soccer specific stadiums that seat 15-20,000 people and grow the fan base.

All of that has happened and more. MLS will continue to expand intelligently. It's major shortcoming remains tv ratings, other than that it has surpassed nearly everyone's expectations.

They never set out to surpass the NFL... That would be an absurd objective.

 

[ZooCougar]

Not being a Richard - but royals avg 21000+ and will go higher now that quality is better on field. The MLS team avg is 19000 and change.

Also agree that MLS is more affordable - that's due to the lack of power among the 4 major sports. As interest in MLS grows so will salaries for named players and stadiums sizes which in turn will raise cost to end user. If neymar and renoldo come play for the KC MLS franchise your costs will rise.

I agree it's growing and Seattle MLS avg is a whopping 40000 - that was the only MLS city I found outdrawing MLB using league avg numbers from MLS.com and MLB.com.

That may be this year's figures. But last year Sporting KC outdrew the Royals. And living here I can tell you that the soccer franchise has more juice than the baseball club.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Soccer fans probably don't listen to the Fan or Francesa. I grew up listening to the Fan and I can't stand it anymore because all they talk about is Derek Jeter and Eli. It's just awful.

Francesca will talk about what people want to hear. He'd talk about soccer if his consumers demanded it.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

That may be this year's figures. But last year Sporting KC outdrew the Royals. And living here I can tell you that the soccer franchise has more juice than the baseball club.

Dude, I like you too, but you have a weird soccer inferiority complex.

 

[ZooCougar]

Not being a Richard - but royals avg 21000+ and will go higher now that quality is better on field. The MLS team avg is 19000 and change.

Also agree that MLS is more affordable - that's due to the lack of power among the 4 major sports. As interest in MLS grows so will salaries for named players and stadiums sizes which in turn will raise cost to end user. If neymar and renoldo come play for the KC MLS franchise your costs will rise.

I agree it's growing and Seattle MLS avg is a whopping 40000 - that was the only MLS city I found outdrawing MLB using league avg numbers from MLS.com and MLB.com.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/11976443/1/5-major-league-soccer-teams-that-outdraw-baseball.html

You might find this interesting.

 

[bc puckett]

The problems with the "Next big thing" argument is multifaceted. Puckett likens the World Cup phenomenon with Olympic hockey and he has a point, except that not only is the NHL indeed the best league, it also resides in North America. Fans with means have a deep attachment to their local teams because 1) they've been there for 75 years, and the game is played locally at the highest skill level.

My point wasn't about the fans with deep attachments to their local teams it was about the casual fans who tune into special events such as the Olympics or World Cup see a game played at the highest level then decide to watch a regular season game and are disappointed at the level of play which doesn't approach what they have just seen.

In some respects the NHL sending it's players to the Olympics actually works against it. People see the best hockey in the world for two weeks and two days later they get Carolina-Buffalo. The fans with deep attachments watch but the fan from the Olympics tunes in and it's barely the same game. I'm sure the curious soccer fan would feel the same way tuning into an MLS game following the World Cup

 

[Bonehead]

That may be this year's figures. But last year Sporting KC outdrew the Royals. And living here I can tell you that the soccer franchise has more juice than the baseball club.

I can't disagree with the juice part - I don't live there. But this year there is only 1 MLS team outdrawing their MLB counterpart by city. And I don't watch baseball just saying that those figures of outdrawing 6-7 teams I am not seeing. I searched it because I found it impressive but not happening in 2014.

Hartford chance to me - 50/50 depending on where the $ is supposed to come from and Krafts sign off.

 

[Waquoit]

Well he is being a but I kinda agree with him too. We hear this every 4 years now with the World Cup.

What we hear every 4 years is soccer haters becoming soccer experts with their proclamations on how soccer will never make it in America. Soccer HAS made it in America and it's going to keep growing. I agree with my brother who said he was done trying to explain soccer to the those who don't want to like it. The bashers now all sound like those old guys who brag about never being on the internet. Fine, but you don't sound amusing or cute anymore. You just sound old and out-of-touch.

 

[ZooCougar]

Francesca will talk about what people want to hear. He'd talk about soccer if his consumers demanded it.

Yeah, his degenerate fan base probably doesn't want to hear about it, and soccer fans aren't interested in Francesa's take on soccer.

I love listening to Jim Rome, he hates soccer, that's ok by me.

 

[ZooCougar]

Dude, I like you too, but you have a weird soccer inferiority complex.

Not really. I'm just stating fact.