OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread | Page 9 | The Boneyard

OT: Boneyard "Other Football" World Cup Thread

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meyers7

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It doesn't need to be uniform. I doubt Brazil is as uniform as people would imagine, the kids just have a ton of time and space to play tons, they don't need to get in a minivan and go to practice. They just wake up and find a group of kids and copy what their heroes are doing in the alley, or on the patch of dirt out back. It's just part of the culture.
Agreed. We start "teaching" our kids to play soccer at 5-6. In other countries they just play soccer until around 8 when academies start plucking them off the fields. Similar to our inner city hoops, kids are just playing all day, all night, all year around.

Also our kids are paying to play for travel teams. In foreign academies they don't. The academies cover the costs.
 

UConnDan97

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It doesn't need to be uniform. I doubt Brazil is as uniform as people would imagine, the kids just have a ton of time and space to play tons, they don't need to get in a minivan and go to practice. They just wake up and find a group of kids and copy what their heroes are doing in the alley, or on the patch of dirt out back. It's just part of the culture.

Well, now we are talking about two different things. 1) Soccer being a part of a country's culture, and 2)a certain uniform style of soccer being played in a country versus our athletes playing many different styles from their European journeys.

#1 is true, and is a necessity. #2 is false. That's all I'm saying...
 
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Well, now we are talking about two different things. 1) Soccer being a part of a country's culture, and 2)a certain uniform style of soccer being played in a country versus our athletes playing many different styles from their European journeys.

#1 is true, and is a necessity. #2 is false. That's all I'm saying...

Wait, what is false exactly?
 

whaler11

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The US plays Nigeria in the send off correct? If you can't beat a team throwing games who can you beat?
 
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As a participatory sport, soccer is far from niche. It's just that quality instruction is scarce.
I coached youth soccer for 15 years. I went to clinic after clinic, read books, watched videos. I took seriously. I saw many a talent just decide to play football or baseball year round. You know the kids that can do anything. Natural talent, speed, natural athleticism just disappears to other sports. Blideh Wilson was evidently a natural talent in soccer and switched.

You are correct about adequate coaching. Many club coaches discourage participation in high school programs that's how bad it is getting.
 

UConnDan97

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Wait, what is false exactly?

Uggh. You asked the question about three pages ago (or three months ago...who can tell anymore?) as to whether our soccer players playing in a multitude of countries (a.k.a., playing styles) was causing us to play worse than other major soccer powers, who have ascribed to a certain style or philosophy.

To that question, I'm telling you that is NOT the case. We are NOT worse off from some of our players playing in various countries under various philosophies. So....false.... :D
 

UCFBfan

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Sorry to interrupt the flow of conversation but I set up a World Cup Bracket Pool on ESPN. Here's the info:

Get in the action now:
Click Here

Group: The Boneyard Pool
Password: uconn

8716114430_857227bdc1_z.jpg
 
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Uggh. You asked the question about three pages ago (or three months ago...who can tell anymore?) as to whether our soccer players playing in a multitude of countries (a.k.a., playing styles) was causing us to play worse than other major soccer powers, who have ascribed to a certain style or philosophy.

To that question, I'm telling you that is NOT the case. We are NOT worse off from some of our players playing in various countries under various philosophies. So....false.... :D

Actually, I never said that it was making us play worse. I asked the question that if a group of players from eclectic backgrounds was keeping us from developing and American style of play. But after you were done twisting everything around and equivocating you confused me so much that I forgot what the original question was.

I never said anything must be true, so I don't see how anything must be false.

And by the way, your Ghana analogy doesn't work. Ghana has more players that grew up playing in Ghana on their roster than we have players that grew up playing in the States.
 

UConnDan97

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Actually, I never said that it was making us play worse. I asked the question that if a group of players from eclectic backgrounds was keeping us from developing and American style of play. But after you were done twisting everything around and equivocating you confused me so much that I forgot what the original question was.

I never said anything must be true, so I don't see how anything must be false.

And by the way, your Ghana analogy doesn't work. Ghana has more players that grew up playing in Ghana on their roster than we have players that grew up playing in the States.

Holy wow.

1) You don't need to say anything must be true for me to say that the answer to a question is false. I've twisted nothing.

2) You are getting too hung up on where a player grew up, what style of system he learned where he grew up, or even what his primary language is. You may not believe this, but there are some extremely awesome club soccer teams made up of people who don't speak the same language!!! (Real Madrid, Manchester United, etc.) THAT'S why the answer to #1 is "false".

That is all...
 
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Holy wow.

1) You don't need to say anything must be true for me to say that the answer to a question is false. I've twisted nothing.

2) You are getting too hung up on where a player grew up, what style of system he learned where he grew up, or even what his primary language is. You may not believe this, but there are some extremely awesome club soccer teams made up of people who don't speak the same language!!! (Real Madrid, Manchester United, etc.) THAT'S why the answer to #1 is "false".

That is all...

Yes, and there are some differences between club soccer where players play as a unit far more regularly and far more stable rosters and international soccer with less regularity and more fluid rosters.
 
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I think that's exactly what LRock was talking about. What that blog shows is that there is HIGH demand for elite soccer at youth levels - there is no doubt, otherwise these kinds of programs that charge so much money and are selective and put so much drain on parents - and are not available to the lower income neighborhoods and families - none of it would exist. That youth program in the pacific northwest by my guestimation is probably one of thousands that exist around the country in affluent communites. There is a lot of money to be made in youth soccer. Always follow the money. Good rule when looking at stuff.

There is very little organization it seems to me nationally for youth soccer down to the levels discussed here. It seems to be all locally controlled, and driven by the best and most motivated local coaches who are also good recruiters and business people.

Play a mental game - Say there are two kids in Seattle area - hypothetical both have the potential to develop as adults into world class players. One is that kid in the story that the coaches were trying to get the mom to bring to practice, but the kid never makes the program because of socioeconomic problems around fees, travel, transportation, etc. Another is in mom's kid in the program, but the parents get fed up, followed by the kid gets fed up with the insanity of it, and the kid changes to a different sport (football) as they reach 13-14-15 high school age that is more convenient for everyone and most importantly, the kid sees his football idols on TV every weekend in the fall.

How do those two hypothetical kids stay interested in soccer, and develop? To me, and my experience with sports, those kids wherever they come from, and whatever they do, need to have idols in the game they love to emulate and want to be like when they grow up. It's that simple. If you look at common threads among highest level athletes and their backgrounds they almost all can point back to a time very early on when they would play and pretend to be somebody they idolized.

I think we have hit some kind of social critical mass with soccer though, because more and more people everyday seem to know who the players are, where they play, and who is the best.

The reality as I see it, is that all a 10 year old kid with the ability needs, is direction and motivation and purposeful, directed coaching with a common end goal in mind. Elite programs that have the best facilities and equipment and clothing and costs thousands of dollars can produce the same exact results as a coach with a group of kids playing barefoot in the dirt with a rag ball, and therein lies the fundamental difficulty of getting organized. Conflict of interests at the basic levels. There are many ways to attack that kind of problem, but one of the easiest ways to bridge those differences, is by having a very strong national team program U18, U19, U20, senior team.... that kids from every background can all want to be part of.

It's going to be slow change, if it ever takes hold and does change, but I don't think anyone has ever really tried with a plan and effort that makes sense until very recently with Klinsmann in charge.

What will really help, also, is a lot of dedicated sports coverage and television coverage of the sport, both the US national team programs, and the U.S.A. professional leagues.
 
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UConnDan97

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Yes, and there are some differences between club soccer where players play as a unit far more regularly and far more stable rosters and international soccer with less regularity and more fluid rosters.

The big clubs all change players like most change underwear. I know that you want your idea to be profound, but it doesn't make it true...
 
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http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/...ncrease-brand-awareness-united-states?cc=5901

Also related - sort of.

Why would a guy like Beckenbauer be interested in promoting and building the brand name of Bayern Munich in the United States?

My answer is because people around the world, know exactly what kind of potential the U.S.A. has a soccer power and producing world class athletes - and it's all untapped.
The answer/reason as to why is in the article, which is the reason why most clubs/corporations make any big move...money. "Our objective is to increase awareness of the Bayern Munich brand name around the world," Rummenigge said. "Furthermore, we naturally wish to gain a financial benefit from this step." Therer is money in the U.S. Bayern is not capitalizing on and the Man U's, Arsenal's, Chelsea's, Barca, and Real's are raking in.

On another note, didn't realize Rummenigge was CEO of Bayern. When I was very young, used to love watching "Soccer Made in Germany" hosted by Toby Charles, and hear him yell out Rummenigge's name after showing some ridiculous highlights of his goals for Bayern and West Germany (for the younger audience, there was a period of some 40 or so years where Germany was two countries, East and West). This was the only real soccer highlights you could get back in the day, and was also around the time of the aging foreign invasion into the NASL 70's to early 80's, where the older stars came to play in the NASL as they could no longer compete for club and country back home. Of course everyone remembers Pele, but having season tickets to Strikers games, loved seeing Georgie Best, Brian Kidd, Gerd Muller, Nene Cubillas, Gordon Banks, Rocky Ray Hudson for the home team, as well as visiting stars Pele, Oscar, Beckenbauer, Chinaglia, Carlos Alberto, Johan Cryuff, Granitza, to name a few when they visited Lockhardt Stadium (sp?). Good times.
 
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The answer/reason as to why is in the article, which is the reason why most clubs/corporations make any big move...money. "Our objective is to increase awareness of the Bayern Munich brand name around the world," Rummenigge said. "Furthermore, we naturally wish to gain a financial benefit from this step." Therer is money in the U.S. Bayern is not capitalizing on and the Man U's, Arsenal's, Chelsea's, Barca, and Real's are raking in.

On another note, didn't realize Rummenigge was CEO of Bayern. When I was very young, used to love watching "Soccer Made in Germany" hosted by Toby Charles, and hear him yell out Rummenigge's name after showing some ridiculous highlights of his goals for Bayern and West Germany (for the younger audience, there was a period of some 40 or so years where Germany was two countries, East and West). This was the only real soccer highlights you could get back in the day, and was also around the time of the aging foreign invasion into the NASL 70's to early 80's, where the older stars came to play in the NASL as they could no longer compete for club and country back home. Of course everyone remembers Pele, but having season tickets to Strikers games, loved seeing Georgie Best, Brian Kidd, Gerd Muller, Nene Cubillas, Gordon Banks, Rocky Ray Hudson for the home team, as well as visiting stars Pele, Oscar, Beckenbauer, Chinaglia, Carlos Alberto, Johan Cryuff, Granitza, to name a few when they visited Lockhardt Stadium (sp?). Good times.

I agree, there are very few things that happen in way shape or fashion or scale, that don't reduce down to money. That's why I wrote 'related - sort of' posting the link. I do think that the more that professional franchises like Bayern, Real, Arsenal, Man U, etc. promote themselves in the U.S., that there will be the kind of trickle down effect to kids and create that kind of motivation and environment I've been blathering about in other posts, and I do think that will help the game develop in the U.S.

Don't underestimate the power of simply human personal interaction though to motivate things. Klinsmann poached a Bayern Munich 18 year old prospect dual citizen from the German national team to play on the U.S. national team.
 

Waquoit

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When I was very young, used to love watching "Soccer Made in Germany" hosted by Toby Charles, and hear him yell out Rummenigge's name after showing some ridiculous highlights of his goals for Bayern and West Germany (for the younger audience, there was a period of some 40 or so years where Germany was two countries, East and West).

Toby Charles was a trip, maybe more enjoyable when the play was ridiculously bad. I remember a horrible pass to kill a tremendous build-up and all he said was "dreadful".
 

meyers7

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http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/...ncrease-brand-awareness-united-states?cc=5901

Also related - sort of.

Why would a guy like Beckenbauer be interested in promoting and building the brand name of Bayern Munich in the United States?

My answer is because people around the world, know exactly what kind of potential the U.S.A. has a soccer power and producing world class athletes - and it's all untapped.
My answer.....$$$$$. Lot's of money to be had here in the states. Same reason some teams travel to the Far East preseason, lot's of potential customers to buy their jerseys, etc.
 
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http://www.espnfc.com/news/story/_/...ncrease-brand-awareness-united-states?cc=5901

Also related - sort of.

Why would a guy like Beckenbauer be interested in promoting and building the brand name of Bayern Munich in the United States?

My answer is because people around the world, know exactly what kind of potential the U.S.A. has a soccer power and producing world class athletes - and it's all untapped.


For the same reason the Lakers promote their name everywhere. Man U and many other clubs have been promoting their clubs here for years.
 
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I think that's exactly what LRock was talking about. What that blog shows is that there is HIGH demand for elite soccer at youth levels - there is no doubt, otherwise these kinds of programs that charge so much money and are selective and put so much drain on parents - and are not available to the lower income neighborhoods and families - none of it would exist. That youth program in the pacific northwest by my guestimation is probably one of thousands that exist around the country in affluent communites. There is a lot of money to be made in youth soccer. Always follow the money. Good rule when looking at stuff.

Yes this is exactly what I was talking about. As it exists today soccer is a middle, upper middle and wealthy class sport. The one exception is hispanic (particularly west coast hispanic) neighborhoods where soccer is the favorite sport over football and basketball. They lack the programs that you find in wealthier neighborhoods but their kids are playing. As popularity and demand increase we will begin to see soccer programs in lower income neighborhoods but that is a long ways away....if ever. Soccer programs would have to come at the expense of other programs in lower income neighborhoods and I just don't see a shift away from Football and Basketball.
 
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Yes this is exactly what I was talking about. As it exists today soccer is a middle, upper middle and wealthy class sport. The one exception is hispanic (particularly west coast hispanic) neighborhoods where soccer is the favorite sport over football and basketball. They lack the programs that you find in wealthier neighborhoods but their kids are playing. As popularity and demand increase we will begin to see soccer programs in lower income neighborhoods but that is a long ways away....if ever. Soccer programs would have to come at the expense of other programs in lower income neighborhoods and I just don't see a shift away from Football and Basketball.

At the "elite" youth level, this is absolutely true in the U.S., and is an obstacle to getting a system in place to develop players from youth all the way to the national team. Why would a top level coach choose to build a program in, for example - an inner city community that is low on socioeconomic totem pole as opposed to charging $2500 a head for the same program in an affluent suburb? No easy solution, and I agree that popularity and demand are the only real driving forces to make it spread, that's kind of what I've been trying to say.

Another way to look at it, is that say you've got a really talented and athletic kid (like the one that was described in that blog article that the coaches wanted the mom to drive in addition to her own kid), but that kid never makes it to the program as a 10 year old. I'm talking about the kind of kid that is the fastest in his gym classes at school, the most athletic kid in school - every school has one - regardless of community socioeconomic status. By the time he reaches age 12-13, he still loves soccer and however the coins fall, gets the opportunity to try out for the program, but by then, he's behind the other kids in skills and ability that have been practicing year round since they were 10 and paying $2500 for it. He chooses a different sport b/c he doesn't make the team.

Chances are, that kid, which I bet is something that probably does happen a lot, if he had still been given the opportunity to play, with lesser skills at a young age, but better speed and general athletic ability than other kids that have better skill from just practicing more - would make a better adult player - but they've fallen through the cracks an dlead to the concept that the 'best athletes" play different sports.

There are more than enough athletes in the USA - even with all the sports - that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!! :)

These are the kinds of problems that make it difficult for building a national team for USA Soccer from natural born full blooded Americans.
 
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Leave it to America to make a cheap thing absurdly expensive.

Yup - it wouldn't surprise me at all if the best youth programs that have coaching that could actually develop world class players from a young age, are more likely to accept lesser talented kids and go out and recruit lesser talented kids that have the parents that can pay top dollar, vs. simply looking for the best young players.

For anyone that thinks this is nuts, google: Leonel Coira He's 9 now.
 

SubbaBub

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5 minutes in and Johnson is playing too far forward. Of course we want him too, but it's leaving a huge space that Turkey has already exploited 3 times. So far, nothing happening down the left side. Getting possession in the final third is much more difficult than the last game.
 
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