OT: 5 Kentucky Players Declaring for Draft | The Boneyard

OT: 5 Kentucky Players Declaring for Draft

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Davis
MKG
Jones
Lamb
Teague

That's more than I thought. A bit of an overhaul there...

When you factor in Miller was a senior, they lose their 92.3% of their scoring, and their top 6 in:

Minutes
Points
Rebounds
Assists

Wiltjer is the only player who averaged more than 10 rebounds or 1 point.

That is far more of an overhaul than any other year they did. It is worth it for them (title and all), but wow...
 
Its what I expected, Teague played well down the stretch and this is a pretty weak PG draft.
 
They're probably due for a crappy year. It's not uncommon to get a highly touted recruit who doesn't work out, but they have again what would be an insane freshman class coming in(and it's hard to get a dud if you're always getting top 15 players). I'm sure it's like groundhog day to Calipari.
 
only problem this coming year is they go 5...maybe 6 deep. This year they at least had a couple guys who could come in off the bench in wiltjer, miller, and vargas
 
Its what I expected, Teague played well down the stretch and this is a pretty weak PG draft.

Teague took a lot of heat for his early struggles, but he looked pretty darn good to me in the tourney. Played D, unselfish, hit the j's he needed to hit. I hate all things Squidboy but I couldn't help but take a liking to Teague's game. He's a much purer point than Knight. He'd probably struggle on a bad NBA team, but I think he'd be a solid piece on a good team.
 
I don't know what to make of Teague's prospects - he certainly had a lot around him, but he led UK in minutes played and was generally pretty solid.

Lamb's an interesting case - he has decent size, but he really isn't much of a ball-handler and the NBA would expect him to be at his size....but crap, the kid hits 48% of his threes. I think he'll either flame out quickly or be one of those guys who quietly sticks for about a decade.
 
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They did for 3 consecutive seasons - I don't see why they can't do it again.

Nah not that easy......when you have that much talent you win some just because but to win it all there needs to be something special and that was Davis last year. No coubt the will reload and with their talent more than likely will go far but doubt they reach the pinnacle again!
 
D Lamb reminds me of Cuttino Mobley, I can see him hanging around the league for quite awhile just off the strength of his shot making ability.
 
The thing is, they not only loaded up on the best incoming players at key positions, but they always brought meaningful players back:

In Calipari's first year, he still had Paterson.
In his second he had Darius Miller and Liggins who both played over 10 minutes per game.
This past year he brought back Jones, Miller, and Lamb.

Wiltjer is the only player back who played any minutes.

Noel is a step down from Davis (not in ranking, but in fact).
Poythress is the #3 SF and will almost certainly be a step down from MKG (#1)
Goodwin should be good (#5 SG) but will likely be a step down from Lamb.

Even if they get Bennett (#2 PF), they don't have a PG. They'll probably find a way to accumulate wins (SEC blows), but I bet Calipari expected Teague and Lamb to return.
 
The thing is, they not only loaded up on the best incoming players at key positions, but they always brought meaningful players back:

In Calipari's first year, he still had Paterson.
In his second he had Darius Miller and Liggins who both played over 10 minutes per game.
This past year he brought back Jones, Miller, and Lamb.

Wiltjer is the only player back who played any minutes.

Noel is a step down from Davis (not in ranking, but in fact).
Poythress is the #3 SF and will almost certainly be a step down from MKG (#1)
Goodwin should be good (#5 SG) but will likely be a step down from Lamb.

Even if they get Bennett (#2 PF), they don't have a PG. They'll probably find a way to accumulate wins (SEC blows), but I bet Calipari expected Teague and Lamb to return.

Ryan Harrow will be their PG, he should be better than what Teague was this year, which he'll need to be for them to go far because like you said they're a step down at the other positions compared to last year.
 
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I don't know what to make of Teague's prospects - he certainly had a lot around him, but he led UK in minutes played and was generally pretty solid.

Lamb's an interesting case - he has decent size, but he really isn't much of a ball-handler and the NBA would expect him to be at his size....but crap, the kid hits 48% of his threes. I think he'll either flame out quickly or be one of those guys who quietly sticks for about a decade.
I think he handles at least as good if not better than our Lamb don't you think?
 
only problem this coming year is they go 5...maybe 6 deep. This year they at least had a couple guys who could come in off the bench in wiltjer, miller, and vargas

They were 6.5 deep last year. Miller played a lot, Wiltjer played a little, Vargas played when Jones or Davis were in foul trouble.

They'll be just fine, but I wonder if they have anybody like Kidd-Gilchrist in the current crop. It's one thing to have a whole bunch of talented guys like Terrance Jones who may or not may not show up everyday. It's another thing to have a tough as nails guy like MKG who'll scratch and claw for 12 rebounds and play lock down D even if he isn't scoring.
 
Ryan Harrow will be their PG, he should be better than what Teague was this year, which he'll need to be for them to go far because like you said they're a step down at the other positions compared to last year.
That's what I missed--Harrow. I totally forgot they had a guy coming in who could play the position well.
 
What a tasteless dig at bunch of young men. It must suck being you.
 
There are levels in reloading and I believe Kentucky is on a 2 year reloading plan right now. As mentioned, they are bringing in a crew of 5 * players to replace the departing 5*, but there is a huge difference in a top 5 overall player in his class, and the 5 * which are ranked 12-25, which is what Kentucky is bringing in, save Noel. Davis, MKG, Teague were all the elite, top players at their positions in their class - as were Cousins, Wall, Knight etc. Cal has done a very good job with the slightly lower ranked guys like Bledsoe and Lamb but they have greatly benefited by thy bevy of talent around them. We can expect to see a more inconsistent UK team next year who is probably a 3 or 4 seed and I only expect Noel to be a one and done. That said, they following year could be their best team yet with an absolutely loaded 2013 class where the top guys at their positions like Randle, Parker and the Harrison twins are all high on UK.

Cauley is super raw and Wiltjer will always be a defensive liability to an extent - Bennett committing would be huge for them at the 4 spot. A lineup of Harrow, Goodwin, Poythress, Bennett and Noel will be very good but their depth will lack and they will be younger and less talented than usual. Who knows though, it looks like an even more down year for the NCAA next year when I see team like UNC projected to be top 10 - a team which I wouldn't be surprised to see end up on the bubble.
 
.-.
The thing is, they not only loaded up on the best incoming players at key positions, but they always brought meaningful players back:

In Calipari's first year, he still had Paterson.
In his second he had Darius Miller and Liggins who both played over 10 minutes per game.
This past year he brought back Jones, Miller, and Lamb.

Wiltjer is the only player back who played any minutes.

Noel is a step down from Davis (not in ranking, but in fact).
Poythress is the #3 SF and will almost certainly be a step down from MKG (#1)
Goodwin should be good (#5 SG) but will likely be a step down from Lamb.

Even if they get Bennett (#2 PF), they don't have a PG. They'll probably find a way to accumulate wins (SEC blows), but I bet Calipari expected Teague and Lamb to return.

Othern than Nerlens who is a step down from Anthony Davis, everyone else that Calipari got is better than what he had this year. Ryan harrow is a better version of teague. Archie Goodwin is a quicker more athletic version of doron lamb.

Poythress is a physical specimen at the small forward spo and is a quicker, stronger, and more athletic version of MKG. Poythress also has good technique on his jumper and can hit outside shots.

Other than losing Davis, he got upgrades at every position from what he had this year which sucks because he will have a legit shot to repeat this year. If we are not allowed in the tourny I will be rooting for Louisville or Indiana to stop them in the NCAA tournament.
 
Othern than Nerlens who is a step down from Anthony Davis, everyone else that Calipari got is better than what he had this year. Ryan harrow is a better version of teague. Archie Goodwin is a quicker more athletic version of doron lamb.

Poythress is a physical specimen at the small forward spo and is a quicker, stronger, and more athletic version of MKG. Poythress also has good technique on his jumper and can hit outside shots.

Other than losing Davis, he got upgrades at every position from what he had this year which sucks because he will have a legit shot to repeat this year. If we are not allowed in the tourny I will be rooting for Louisville or Indiana to stop them in the NCAA tournament.

I would say Ryan Harrow is about the same as Teague so far. He might be better because he should be a sophomore/junior version as opposed to a freshman version, but just from a prospect POV he's fairly similar.

Goodwin is quicker and more athletic than Lamb but Lamb had a lot of savvy and was a heck of a shooter. Not sure this is an upgrade for the team, just very different players. It is an athletic upgrade, that I will agree on.

Poythress is a fine player and could be better than MKG, but the big question is the motor. MKG had a fantastic motor that is going to be hard to replace by anyone, even a better prospect, like Poythress.

The big downgrade will be at the PF position, with Jones gone. There is some talk of them signing Bennett/Jefferson but currently this is a huge downgrade to Wiltjer.

The second big downgrade is at Center. Noel is a fantastic player but he is not as good as Davis on either side of the court from what I have seen.

The third downgrade is the bench. They lose Wiltjer to the starting 5, they lose Miller and Vargas to graduation. They replace them with Cauley, who is a great pickup but raw. If they get Bennet/Jefferson then they gain back Wiltjer on the bench but still lose Miller.

Miller is a huge lose (assuming all 5 starters are gone) because they have no backup guards. Miller was able to come in and back up the 2 which shifted Lamb to the 1 and gave Teague a rest. Unless they can get something out of the blue or can pull something from their stiffs, they are in trouble in the backcourt.

If they that is their lineup that will be younger than this past year and not as deep.
 
Losing Anthony Davis is all that matters in bringing them back down to earth. He was a once every ten years type of college player, set them apart. I have no doubt they will be formidable next year, but it will be much different from this year
 
Doesn't really matter they still have the #1 recruiting class coming in. Cal and all the players knew they were all leaving after this year. UK is a basketball business. they have a 1 year pit stop then they have to bounce specially after a national championship. The NCAA will take a step back from this year with alot of teams losing alot of talent. This team is way better then a 3/4 seed like someone said. If they get Anthony Bennett with all signs saying he will come. there starting 5 is stacked city! look for them to cruise thew the season get a #1 seed go for a deep run and try to repeat. Then its judgement day and they all go to the pros and they reload again. If they get Bennett they should be preseason #1 they should be a#1 seed They should be atleast a final 4 team. only schools they should worry about is ucla, nc state, Indiana.But right now i will still put my $$$ on Kentucky to win it all come 2013.
 
With the addition of these 5, how far does this push Drummond and Lamb [Jeremy] down the draft board?
 
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With the addition of these 5, how far does this push Drummond and Lamb [Jeremy] down the draft board?

JMO (with the caveat being the draft order is unknown)

Drummond gets pushed out of the #1 spot, because that is obviously going to Davis now. Correspondingly, this moves Lamb down a spot.

I'm not sure if Michael Kidd-Gilchrist pushes Drummond down or not, but I think he does move Lamb down a spot. I don't see Doron Lamb, Marquis Teague or Terrance Jones moving Lamb or Drummond down. They could be drafted ahead of Drummond and/or Lamb but I can't see why.

Before the five UK players I would guess it would go something like this:

1-3: Beal, Drummond, Robinson
4-9: Sullinger, Lamb, Barnes, Henson, Jones III, Zeller
10-12: Lillard, Rivers, Leonard

IMO 4-9 are all fairly equal.

Davis obviously moves someone out of the top 3, MKG may also move someone out of the top 3. Terrence Jones is probably a top 10 pick, but could be higher depending on workouts (his tweener status hurts him, unless he proves agile enough to man the 3). Teague could move ahead of Lillard, but shouldn't go in the top 10, unless a team drafts by need (New Orleans needs a PG badly and they do have 2 picks). Doron Lamb is a nice player, but he will need a very nice workout to move up, his athletic ability is questionable at best (he was blocked by Kemba in the final four on a fast break, Kemba may be an athletic freak, but Lamb supposedly has 4-5 inches on him).

So I guess this could move Drummond to #5 at worst and Lamb to #12. Personally, I wouldn't take Sullinger that high unless he's 6'10 or taller. He seems too much like a Big Baby player to be a lottery pick. Robinson is also a huge question mark, if he's 6'7, I don't take him until the late lottery. He seems to have trouble with taller players and IMO is more Milsap then Kemp. I know people are in love with Beal, but I just don't see the Ray Allen comparisons at all. Henson scares me with his weight.

I would be more apt to draft on potential, even if it bit me in the butt, because you can't win in the NBA without star power. If I have a star (NO/Washington) I would be more OK drafting a secondary player who I know will not bust. If I don't have a star (Charlotte) I reach for one (Drummond/Lamb/Beal/Barnes/Jones III).
 
I would say Ryan Harrow is about the same as Teague so far. He might be better because he should be a sophomore/junior version as opposed to a freshman version, but just from a prospect POV he's fairly similar.

Goodwin is quicker and more athletic than Lamb but Lamb had a lot of savvy and was a heck of a shooter. Not sure this is an upgrade for the team, just very different players. It is an athletic upgrade, that I will agree on.

Poythress is a fine player and could be better than MKG, but the big question is the motor. MKG had a fantastic motor that is going to be hard to replace by anyone, even a better prospect, like Poythress.

The big downgrade will be at the PF position, with Jones gone. There is some talk of them signing Bennett/Jefferson but currently this is a huge downgrade to Wiltjer.

The second big downgrade is at Center. Noel is a fantastic player but he is not as good as Davis on either side of the court from what I have seen.

The third downgrade is the bench. They lose Wiltjer to the starting 5, they lose Miller and Vargas to graduation. They replace them with Cauley, who is a great pickup but raw. If they get Bennet/Jefferson then they gain back Wiltjer on the bench but still lose Miller.

Miller is a huge lose (assuming all 5 starters are gone) because they have no backup guards. Miller was able to come in and back up the 2 which shifted Lamb to the 1 and gave Teague a rest. Unless they can get something out of the blue or can pull something from their stiffs, they are in trouble in the backcourt.

If they that is their lineup that will be younger than this past year and not as deep.
With any young team, you never know how well their chemistry will come together and how soon they will be ready to handle the big moments. Usually it takes at least 2 years. Last year was unique though they did have one Senior who was a solid contributor and two juniors that had some F-4 experience from the year before as well.

The addition of Harrow to run the point is huge. Arguably the most important position and they get a kid who has some D1 experience.

As for missing Davis, his contribution was mainly on the defensive end of the floor though his offense continued to improve as the season went on. If Noel can learn to stay on the floor for long stretches, UK might not have that much of a drop off at the 5. They also have Willie Cauley, ranked #9 (Scout) and #15 (Rivals) at the center position. Granted you're talking about 2 freshman manning the point. Freshman Bigs quite often give you 10 minutes of PT before fouling out. Hopefully for them both will learn to play D with their feet and not their hands.

Goodwin will give them a better all around 2G, but again, he'll be just a freshman compared to the battle tested Lamb who struggled his first season, but really came up big this past one. Goodwin really impressed me with his all around game. On a side note, I was not impressed the first time I saw Purvis, but wow, he was awesome during the All-Star game I watched a few weeks ago. It stung a bit when I heard that we came a close 2nd. It sounded like if not for the tournament ban, he might not have had the hesitations he had and just might have pulled the trigger for the Huskies. Oh, well. We move on.

I really like Poythress. He's a true combo guard that can give them minutes at the 3 and the 4. He has ridiculous range for a kid his size and can put it on the floor. He also looks like a kid who's not afraid to bang under the basket and should be a very good rebounder. As good as Jones was, I think he'll exceed his production this coming season. Just seems like a kid who has a lot of confidence in his abilities, something that Jones struggled with at times. I realize that Jones slide over from the 3 to the 4 this past season and that MKG was UK's primary wing. If UK is able to add Bennett at the 4, then he's the true replacement for Jones, which I think will be an upgrade since Bennett is a more true 4-man while Jones was a 3/4 combo. As for Poythress vs MKG, it looks like a wash, though MKG was very good at attacking the basket and finishing in transition. I think many under value how good and how important MKG was for this team.

The one player that would put them over the top is Bennett. He already has the body to play at the next level and has a ton of game to go along with it. As noted above he'd be an upgrade over Jones due to being a better position fit at the 4, and IMO, would make them a major threat for reaching -4. I haven't really surveyed the field to see if there are any top tier teams returning many of their key players. If much of the big boys are at a minimum doing some retooling, then a young talented UK team might just come together and make another run for the title, especially if Noel is able to stay on the floor and take away the paint. Our young team two years ago wasn't exactly an offensive juggernaut, but we had enough offense thanks to Kemba and an impressive team defense that came together at just the right time. If Harrow can come in and lead this team with some level of maturity, note that I know very little about him, he could be the glue guy and voice of calm to shepherd this young team deep into March. One thing to keep in mind though, who is their back-up PG? Harrow is not going to be able to play 40 minutes every game and they could find themselves in a lot of trouble if Harrow gets into foul trouble. Maybe Goodwin can slide over to the 1 and hold down the ship for whatever minutes they need.

They just look like a very talented but young and thin (depth wise) team. Unlike this past season, where I stated that they had the right pieces to win it all with a team lead primarily by Freshman and Sophomores, I'm not so sure about this group, even if they get Bennett. I think their youth and inexperience won't carry them 6 consecutive games in March. Someone will trip them up. Last season, they didn't have any one or even two players to rely on for scoring. They really did a nice job of spreading it around, but those they spread it to were very good offensive players. I just don't think the new group has nearly as much offensive fire power. I can see them relying a lot of Goodwin against teams that are able to shut down their inside game and young scores have a long history of shooting their teams right out of the tournament. Knight against us two years ago, is case in point. I would not be shocked if the Squid makes it back-to-back-to-back F4s, but until I see how this team looks on the floor, I say a back-to-back NC is unlikely. If that's the case and he can manage to keep most of these young players for a second season, then who wouldn't sign of for that? If he has to reload again and doesn't sniff an NC for a long time, then Cal and the UK program will face a lot of expectation pressure. Having to rebuild just about every year and only getting to -4 will eventually not be good enough. If he sprinkles in an NC every 2 to 3 years, then again, who wouldn't sign up for that. It will be very interesting to see how UK does over the next 2 to 4 years.
 
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I can't disagree with most of that.

Bennett or Jefferson will dictate the potential of this coming UK team.

If they can get one of those, their starting five will be pretty darn good again and they will have two bench players. They still won't have a backup PG or SG, but will have a very solid frontcourt. If Bennett they likely start Poythress, Bennett, Noel with Cauley coming in for Noel and Wiltjer for Poythress. Either Poythress or Noel could shift to the 4 to take out Bennett. If it's Jefferson then I'm not sure who the 3 is and who the 4 is between him and Poythress, but it shouldn't make a difference.

If they can't get one of those two (or someone like Pollard) they go 6 deep. I'm not sure if Cauley or Wiltjer starts in this case. Either way they only have the other as a "reliable" player coming off the bench. I would guess Wiltjer starts and Cauley comes off the bench. Solid starting five but nowhere near as good as the last 3 teams. If Wiltjer starts, Noel could shift to the four and take Poythress out or Poythress shifts to the 3 with Noel at the 4 and Wiltjer comes out.

I'm not sure either Wiltjer or Poythress or anyone they are recruiting can defend the 2G position, let alone the PG. I'm a bit surprised UK isn't going after a 2G in this class, not that there are many left, after they missed on Shabazz. They could use a backup guard as they are relying on 2 guards playing all year. If one goes down or gets in foul trouble, they are going to be hurting.
 
I can't disagree with most of that.

Bennett or Jefferson will dictate the potential of this coming UK team.

If they can get one of those, their starting five will be pretty darn good again and they will have two bench players. They still won't have a backup PG or SG, but will have a very solid frontcourt. If Bennett they likely start Poythress, Bennett, Noel with Cauley coming in for Noel and Wiltjer for Poythress. Either Poythress or Noel could shift to the 4 to take out Bennett. If it's Jefferson then I'm not sure who the 3 is and who the 4 is between him and Poythress, but it shouldn't make a difference.

If they can't get one of those two (or someone like Pollard) they go 6 deep. I'm not sure if Cauley or Wiltjer starts in this case. Either way they only have the other as a "reliable" player coming off the bench. I would guess Wiltjer starts and Cauley comes off the bench. Solid starting five but nowhere near as good as the last 3 teams. If Wiltjer starts, Noel could shift to the four and take Poythress out or Poythress shifts to the 3 with Noel at the 4 and Wiltjer comes out.

I'm not sure either Wiltjer or Poythress or anyone they are recruiting can defend the 2G position, let alone the PG. I'm a bit surprised UK isn't going after a 2G in this class, not that there are many left, after they missed on Shabazz. They could use a backup guard as they are relying on 2 guards playing all year. If one goes down or gets in foul trouble, they are going to be hurting.
I know UK is on Jefferson, as was UConn, but I've not been all that impressed by his game. Seen him a couple times and my reaction is, ehh. He looks like a 3/4 tweener which often works fine at the D1 level depending on the program. Bennett IMO puts UK over the top. Bennett is the type of player that could make a good team dangerous. Jefferson seems like just a nice piece and a likely 3 to 4 year player, but maybe I'm underselling him.

With Noel, Pothress and Goodwin all possible one-and-doners, adding Bennett who also looks like a one-hit-wonder would set them up for another NC run if they mature quick enough and the chemistry works. Now that gets them into a yearly reloading cycle. If they add someone like Jefferson, I'm not so sure they have the horses to win it again. They would likely end up losing Noel, Pothress & Goodwin. The players that would return would be good ones, but not great and they'd have to reload with some bit time talent again to make another run at the championship, but I don't know if that combination would have the horses to do so. But Cal is very good at developing under-the-radar kids as well as those 2nd tier type talent, Doron Lamb for example. Although Doron was highly ranked he was far from a complete player but really developed a more versatile game this past season. Maybe Jefferson is a tier 2 or even better talent that if he stays would blow up big time in his second year. Maybe a bumper crop of talent from 2013 class, along with along with another year of Jefferson, Harrow (I'm assuming he's got at least 2 years of eligibility) , Cauley and whatever other returning players would get the job done.

I must admit. As much as I dislike UK and Cal, I'm fascinated to see how this plays out. My biggest concern was once Cal was able win an NC with a young team that was lead completely by freshman and sophomores, that the flood gates would open for him to reload every year and win bunch of NCs that way. Not saying it will happen every year, but as I mentioned before, who wouldn't want to root for a program that will make -4 just about every season and win a few NCs along the way? I'm not saying winning it all on a regular basis with young players will happen. It has to be the right mix of players and it helps when there aren't many or any elite teams around that given year that are led by few upperclassmen.

Many of us remember the Fab-5 back in the day. As much as I wasn't a UM fan, it was fascinated to see how far they could go. I don't like that a program like UK could end up standing in UConn's way to the championship. That happened 2 years ago and we all know who came out on top. We thought we were going to get a rematch, and if we did, I don't think we would have fared all that well, but it would have been fun to see what would have happened.

I don't know about you guys, but I think I'd be conflicted if what was happening at UK was happening here at UConn. I enjoy getting to know and watching our players grow as long as our team develops into a F-4 and NC contender every few years. I'd feel a tad cheated if we were losing our best players after just one season. I enjoy watching players develop before our eyes into NBA hopefuls. I enjoy beating teams comprised of Burger AAs with a team that is led by less heralded players such as Lamb, Emeka, Hilton, Boone, Ray, etc. Even some of our more heralded players excelled beyond what was expected such as Donyell, Rip and Kemba. Two of those 3 ended up runner up for NPOY.

I'm sure most of us would welcome a Fab-5 hear and watch with wonder how far they could go as youngsters. There's something special about that sort of group, but if UK does this year after year I bet it will lose it's specialness. In fact, I didn't sense all that much wonder with UK's team last season even though they were made up of a group of highly ranked freshman and sophomores. I actually found KU a more compelling story of a team that had zero McD AAs making it all the way to the final game. If they hadn't come out of the gate so poorly in that game, maybe they could have nipped UK in the end if the score was a lot closer.

Now do I want UK to land Bennett or Jefferson? No! I was happy to see Shabazz Muhammad end up at UCLA, which by the way has put together a very nice class of their own. I was surprised he didn't drink the Cal-lade and try to repeat what the prior UK class accomplished. But even missing out on him, if they land Bennett, it would be another impressive back-to-back #1 by a long shot recruiting class for UK.
 
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