On the "need" for big (ie. tall) post players

[jchusky]

Generally you are right about optimistic expectations but besides Bueckers both 2020 classmates Mühl and Edwards met/exceeded expectations also. And in the 2021 class Ducharme was a question mark and is no more. Fudd couldn't exceed her expectations unless she floated around the court but she did prove her worth so in the last 2 classes there have been 5 freshmen that played significant roles the last 2 years.
It's not farfetched to think that one or both of the incoming freshmen will play a positive role this coming year. It's also likely that either or both will get a clear message from Geno on the sidelines.

And a hoorah to the improved recruiting these last several years.

sorry but that is not true, me and Mdoggie were big on her before the season started. I even said she is more ready than Fudd and I think I was proven right on that.

 

[Alydar]

So if you were on a Baylor WBB message board, and some people there said that "the only reason we lost was the injury to Didi Richards", would you tell them to quit making excuses and acknowledge that the better team on that particular day won the game?

I believe that you expressed the view that UConn fans who noted the injuries to key UConn players during the final 2022 game against South Carolina were making excuses and avoiding the reality that SC was the better team that day.

So it seems that your real view is that when UConn loses, excuses are not to be tolerated, but when other teams lose to UConn, UConn should avoid taking credit for the victory if the other team had any plausible excuse. Right?

You and @jchusky are true soulmates.

The rest of the story: While the loss of Richards was a blow to the entire Baylor team everyone ignores the fact that UConn played the entire game without their starting point guard, Mühl. UConn's offense had sputtered until Mühl started, allowing Bueckers to focus more on scoring.

So, injuries happen and the losing side will look at them while the winning side celebrates. I didn't let Achonwa's injury make that title any less rewarding to me.

 

[Skeets]

@EricLA started this thread and much of the discussion seems to center around the performance of the freshman.
I want to extend this the discussion and ask these questions:

Questions: Did UCONN acquired more talent than it lost this past season? Why?
In: Lou Lopez-Senechal, Ice Brady and Ayanna Patterson
Out: Evina, CW, ONO, Piath


Yes. but it is very close because.....

In Lou Lopez-Senechal UCONN gets a dynamic 3 level consistent scoring thread where as both Evina and Christyn were inconsistent in shooting and scoring. Both Evina and CW could be inspired to play great perimeter defense which is a skill I have not seen displayed by Lou Lopez-Senechal thus far. The other down side is Lou only has 1 year of eligibility remaining and for mere mortals it takes a full year to learn the UCONN system.

In Ice Brady UCONN get a post player that offensively must be accounted for all over the floor with a body that is better equipped to do some of the required rugged work in the paint. Ice Brady will likely not block as many shots nor collect as many rebounds as ONO did but by being an offensive threat from all over the floor this will make UCONN a better team.

In Ayanna Patterson UCONN gets primarily an athlete who can make basketball plays that most other teams cannot match up with. Ayanna is the X factor that firmly puts me in the yes column.

Thoughts?

Coco, talent-wise it's really tough to say, but UConn did lose a ton of experience (as is always the case with graduating senior starters). Lou has 4 years of college BB experience, but zero UConn BB experience. Hopefully her maturity gets her onboard quickly. We know she can put the ball in the hoop, but can she play big time D1 basketball? Maybe yes.

My opinion is if (and that's a big IF) the returning players can get and stay healthy UConn will be a very good team, capable of giving a run at the long-waited NC. Dorka and Edwards can tie down the front court and our guards are the best in college BB. Significant contributions from the newbies will just make the run at the NC easier. And then there's Amari. Come on Amari, I'm pulling for you.

 

[Bone Dog]

Coco, talent-wise it's really tough to say, but UConn did lose a ton of experience (as is always the case with graduating senior starters). Lou has 4 years of college BB experience, but zero UConn BB experience. Hopefully her maturity gets her onboard quickly. We know she can put the ball in the hoop, but can she play big time D1 basketball? Maybe yes.

My opinion is if (and that's a big IF) the returning players can get and stay healthy UConn will be a very good team, capable of giving a run at the long-waited NC. Dorka and Edwards can tie down the front court and our guards are the best in college BB. Significant contributions from the newbies will just make the run at the NC easier. And then there's Amari. Come on Amari, I'm pulling for you.

The loss/gain calculus can yield different results depending on how we value experience, raw talent, and character. In Evina, we lost someone who led with the heart, who came up huge in the big games and was content to play a role the rest of the time. That’s an awesome virtue and we’ll miss her. Olivia had a ton of defensive talent, was quick up and down the floor, but may not have been bulky enough to push someone like Boston around in the paint. She rebounded well and blocked shots with the best, and got a ton of assists from the high post. But sometimes the ball seemed like an alien object in her hands. Christyn was creative on the offensive end and could be a lockdown defender. She played with a ton of heart, which sometimes let her down, and her confidence could falter. This was an impressive trio, when you add it all up.

I think we lose something on all these fronts, and gain some other things in compensation. Just talking about the core starting 6 (lol) we don’t lose any D among the guards and maybe have more consistent scoring threats all around. A lot depends on the conditioning of Aaliyah and Dorka, but IF they can go 30 mins at the level of their best efforts from last season, we still have to be considered favorites for a 14th final four, with a good shot at the NC.

The primary IF concerns Aaliyah and Dorka, then. The secondary IFs are 1) can Aubrey return to her best form, 2) can Lou learn our D and retain her shooting magic, 3) can Amari raise her game intensity and become a regular rotation player, and 4) can the new kids make a substantial contribution the way Aaliyah did her freshman year?

I think we should be ranked #2 just on the basis of the core 6 we’re returning. The rest of the IFs only concern how much better than that we’ll be, and I’m confident at least some of those IFs will break in our favor.

 

[Bone Dog]

Another reflection on the need for more Bigs: I rewatched the UCLA game yesterday, because we went with a BIG lineup for much of that game. It was mainly due to injury, since Paige, Azzi and Nika were out. There were some stretches with Olivia, Dorka, Aaliyah on the floor together. We floundered in this configuration because we were too slow. But we dominated the boards. Christyn and Caroline struggled offensively in the first half and Evina totally carried the team. A last second 3 from Carolina cut the deficit at the end of the half.

In the second half, we played 3 guards and shut down UCLA’s offense. It was impressive. And Christyn found her shot. We eventually built a 14 pt lead and it looked like the game was over in the closing minutes. But we got tired and they went on a scoring run, closing the gap to 2pts. We struggled with free throws — possibly another sign of fatigue — but Aaliyah and Evina came up with huge steals and we held on for the win.

And one other interesting indicator of the value of medium sized bigs: I’Imari Thomas was a dominant factor for UCLA at no taller than 6’2”. She plays rather like Aneesah Morrow on DePaul, a strong position player with a really quick set of post moves. Even against our 3 Big lineup, Thomas was still a force.

This was a huge game for us, by the way. Paige’s injury was still fresh in our minds, and they’d just lost to GT in a shocker. There’d been almost no practice time since the injury, so we were trying to figure out what the team was in a live game. We missed a ton of layups, I think because of the hit we’d just taken to our confidence and the general disarray of kids who had to fill all the gaps on the fly. Evina was huge for us in this game — without her I doubt we could have even kept the game close.

Also, even though we were desperate for speed in this game, Mir didn’t play at all. We needed more guards that day — we only had 3 — and she’s not a guard, but we also needed more team speed. I suspect this game contributed to Mir’s decision to transfer.

 

[hoophuskee]

Generally you are right about optimistic expectations

It all depends how you define expectations. SO many different perceptions of what to expect can apply.

Not saying the poster you replied to is wrong but that poster's expectations of when Azzi came in- is her or her own- and he or she is assuming everyone has the same perception as his or her. Frankly, I seriously doubt that poster is a UCONN fan - same with the other poster who also appears lives on west coast. So they are going to look at things negatively toward UCONN as much as possible.

For me, my perception of any player is celling/floor. My perception of Azzi was a floor of being a good basketball player that eventually starts early in her career and capable of scoring. I just didn't lock into "superstar automatic etc." So when the poster you are replied to you spoke of "hype" and "Use caution" that was his or her perception of Azzi coming out. Not mine.

As a result, I can only surmise right now that when he or she is speaking of hype and caution right now - if that is what he or she is saying- again that's not my perception of the two young frosh. I have a perceived floor that at least one of them will be able to provide capable backup minutes,. Does this mean in some posters point of view that my perception is that I'm over-hyping the two players? Or would they think based on their recruiting of being numbers 4 and 5 nationally that if they aren't; starting or being near Honorable Mention A/a by the end of the year then it means "they were over-hyped?"

Bottomline is he or she is not right or wrong about the expectations for these two freshmen coming in. It all depends what your personal expectations are. And from quite a few of the posts I see from this particular poster, I would almost always expect it to be negative. To further that - for some - if UCONN doesn’t win a championship - then I believe many that think of "title or bust" -of course might believe that there is a ton of "over-hype." But what if "South Carolina" is just better? Still "over-hype/expectations too high etc?"

 

[sun]

I agree that Amari is a sleeper that has the potential to make major contributions at opportune times.
Her legs may be slow but her arms and mind are quick.
As she practices her moves she'll improve the quickness of her feet and ability to make quick passes.
And then there's her ability to sky up to the rim.
She won't be able to do it all alone without help from her teammates with boxing out.
But they'll all need to work together, and if Amari can draw fouls in the process then so much the better.
She can leap high & has a big wingspan that will help with rebounding.
Edwards may get the most PT, but Amari may actually be able to out rebound her in the pure sense.
Amari can probably out rebound just about anyone on the UConn team.
I'll bet that she's working on proving it too.

Also, if Amari shows reliable mid and short range scoring and passing, she may become more of an offensive threat than Dorka.
She may have stronger hands than Dorka too.
Most teams won't have two 6'5" bigs able to play at the same time.
I don't expect it right away but I do expect it to happen eventually.
She basically only needs to be able to make smart decisions.
It's only a matter of time.

 

[Bone Dog]

Most teams won’t even have a 6’5” playing next to a 6’3” player.

 

[socal613ws]

Generally you are right about optimistic expectations but besides Bueckers both 2020 classmates Mühl and Edwards met/exceeded expectations also. And in the 2021 class Ducharme was a question mark and is no more. Fudd couldn't exceed her expectations unless she floated around the court but she did prove her worth so in the last 2 classes there have been 5 freshmen that played significant roles the last 2 years.
It's not farfetched to think that one or both of the incoming freshmen will play a positive role this coming year. It's also likely that either or both will get a clear message from Geno on the sidelines.

And a hoorah to the improved recruiting these last several years.

they exceeded expectations because there were no expectations. I don't think anyone had any idea of what that team was going to be. I don't think many thought Paige was a lock to start her 1st game either. That season I think most Uconn fans were satisfied, alltho some wouldn't let go the loss to a 20 pt underog Arizona.

 

[hoophuskee]

they exceeded expectations because there were no expectations. I don't think anyone had any idea of what that team was going to be. I don't think many thought Paige was a lock to start her 1st game either. That season I think most Uconn fans were satisfied, alltho some wouldn't let go the loss to a 20 pt underog Arizona.

You mean "you" had no idea. You know UCONN was ranked 3rd preseason, right? And what did they end up? Three or Four, right? SO how can you say that there were no expectations?

You choose to doubt things - it doesn’t make you right or wrong but that's what you choose to do. It doesn't mean though that overall that there were no expectations. There were. It's just that you chose to doubt them just as you generally do with UCONN often, correct?

Is UCONN a top 4 team this upcoming year or not? Will they make the Final Four, or not? Make the call "UCONN Husky fan."

 

[Alydar]

they exceeded expectations because there were no expectations. I don't think anyone had any idea of what that team was going to be. I don't think many thought Paige was a lock to start her 1st game either. That season I think most Uconn fans were satisfied, alltho some wouldn't let go the loss to a 20 pt underog Arizona.

I think I was talking about expectations for incoming new players, not another rehash of the team losses in the NCAA's.

I don't think another player has ever entered college with the level of expectation there was for Bueckers. Even people who don't follow girl's basketball had heard of her. She was the first woman HS player to make the cover of friggin SLAM Magazine. They had to expand the ceiling on the meaning of hype. I expected to see what I saw. But I'd watched many many hours of her play for Hopkins and USA and her unique blend of talent, IQ and attitude were well known to me.

 

[rvwsleep]

Watched a part of the France-Argentina FIBA U16 game Saturday morning.
France has a 6'6" center (Dominique Malonga) who is VERY impressive.
Slim but not weak, athletic enough to guard players effectively away from the basket. Good looking form (and results)
on her mid range shot.
Would be a definite player of interest for UConn, but I doubt that she'll go to an American college. Looks like the type of player that will play professionally at an early age.