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Olympic women's basketball tournament (5x5) (SPOILER ALERT)

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Cat's point about Stewie playing out of position is a good one. I hope she can get untracked. I'd like to see Dee be even more aggressive. A'ja was successful in taking contact and scoring plus getting to the FT line--her career M.O. It's hard to tell what a foul is. Nika Muhl was right--the American game calls most contact, whereas borderline muggings last night were not called. The U.S. needs to adjust to that. I think the worst stat was 25 turnovers. We passed poorly and weren't strong with the ball. We need to improve, especially the newcomers. In Rio, Sue missed the semi-finals against France, and we struggled. Last night, we needed her record 13 assists to win. She is the key to this team right now.
 
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I just didn't see any flow on offense or defense for most of the game - no help defense, bad rotation, slow or no switching and seeming unawareness of where and what others were doing.

It felt like the team on offense were completely lost - few and bad ball screens, off ball screens seemed non-existent. Often two people moving into the same position at the same time.

To me the biggest issue is coaching - both sides of the ball. When this level of players both talent and experience-wise look lost the coach is screwing up. Either trying too hard to complicate things, or trying to impose something that doesn't fit the players.

(Except for a few minutes Tina Charles looked lost, slow, and out of sync, which is hard to believe given the kind of WNBA season she has been having.)

I remember the first days of Geno coaching the NT when either DT or Sue told him 'you aren't teaching us how to play, just tell us what to do - we got the rest of it down.' or words to that effect.
 
UcMiami said:
I remember the first days of Geno coaching the NT when either DT or Sue told him 'you aren't teaching us how to play, just tell us what to do - we got the rest of it down.' or words to that effect.
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It was on a Zach Lowe podcast where Geno told the story of Dee telling him in 2010 that the WNBA players weren't going to get the read and react offense with different options. Dee told him that the players needed set plays, told where to go and what to do and that the plays needed a name. That's it.
 
MilfordHusky said:
Cat's point about Stewie playing out of position is a good one. I hope she can get untracked. I'd like to see Dee be even more aggressive. A'ja was successful in taking contact and scoring plus getting to the FT line--her career M.O. It's hard to tell what a foul is. Nika Muhl was right--the American game calls most contact, whereas borderline muggings last night were not called. The U.S. needs to adjust to that. I think the worst stat was 25 turnovers. We passed poorly and weren't strong with the ball. We need to improve, especially the newcomers. In Rio, Sue missed the semi-finals against France, and we struggled. Last night, we needed her record 13 assists to win. She is the key to this team right now.
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This is not a well-constructed roster to begin with, but Staley’s lineup decisions are nonsensical. She’s currently playing the best player in the world out of position.
 
UConn990411 said:
This is not a well-constructed roster to begin with, but Staley’s lineup decisions are nonsensical. She’s currently playing the best player in the world out of position.
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That's also because there is no real 3 position player on this team. Pheesa is supposed to be a swing but she is lost out there and out of her depth. You either run a set with 3 bigs with Stewie at the 3 or a 3 guard offense with a 2 guard at the 3. It's ridiculous. If we win the Gold, Sue and D have to control the team, not Dawn.
 
BBallF said:
That's also because there is no real 3 position player on this team. Pheesa is supposed to be a swing but she is lost out there and out of her depth. You either run a set with 3 bigs with Stewie at the 3 or a 3 guard offense with a 2 guard at the 3. It's ridiculous. If we win the Gold, Sue and D have to control the team, not Dawn.
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The questionable roster construction with no real natural SF's has left Dawn with choices exactly as you mentioned. If you are going to play 3 bigs, the obvious choice to slide over to the 3 is Stewie. She has the most perimeter skills, otherwise you are playing three guards with the closest to a big guard perhaps being Atkins, but she is too far down the depth chart.

So with the roster she has, I think Stewie at the 3 might be the best among less than favorable choices. First I think our bigs relatively speaking are much better than our guards, and the two natural 4's, Stewart and Wilson might be the two best players on the team, and it is a shame to have one of them sitting for major portions of the game.

For this tournament it is what it is, but next time we need at least one great natural player at each position.
 
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oldhuskie said:
The questionable roster construction with no real natural SF's has left Dawn with choices exactly as you mentioned. If you are going to play 3 bigs, the obvious choice to slide over to the 3 is Stewie. She has the most perimeter skills, otherwise you are playing three guards with the closest to a big guard perhaps being Atkins, but she is too far down the depth chart.

So with the roster she has, I think Stewie at the 3 might be the best among less than favorable choices. First I think our bigs relatively speaking are much better than our guards, and the two natural 4's, Stewart and Wilson might be the two best players on the team, and it is a shame to have one of them sitting for major portions of the game.

For this tournament it is what it is, but next time we need at least one great natural player at each position.
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Next cycle, I would like to get pure PG Vandersloot and much needed 3pt killer Quiqley with Jewell as the three main quard rotation
 
UConnCat said:
Vandersloot is ineligible, Quigley is . . . This is a joke, right?
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Yes, my attempt at humor thinking we might have room for a real 3pt threat who actually moves without the ball. :oops::oops::oops:

Why is Vandersloot ineligible?
 
eebmg said:
Yes, my attempt at humor thinking we might have room for a real 3pt threat who actually moves without the ball. :oops::oops::oops:

Why is Vandersloot ineligible?
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A shooter who would be 36 years old in her first ever USA Basketball game (next World Cup) or a 38-year old first time Olympian? I don't think so.

Vandersloot chose to become a Hungarian citizen and has played for Hungary's WNT in a FIBA event. She did that for financial reasons as Hungary is no threat to make a World Cup or Olympics.
 
UConnCat said:
A shooter who would be 36 years old in her first ever USA Basketball game (next World Cup) or a 38-year old first time Olympian? I don't think so.

Vandersloot chose to become a Hungarian citizen and has played for Hungary's WNT in a FIBA event. She did that for financial reasons as Hungary is no threat to make a World Cup or Olympics.
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Yes, I did not take into account her age. Good point.

Thanks on the Vandersloot background. That is a shame.
 
The thing that stood out to my wife and I (amongst other things) was the physicality. Unreal. Throw in some pocket knives and we could redo West Side Story on an international stage. Dee Kanter would be on her third whistle by half time.
 
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oldhuskie said:
The questionable roster construction with no real natural SF's has left Dawn with choices exactly as you mentioned. If you are going to play 3 bigs, the obvious choice to slide over to the 3 is Stewie. She has the most perimeter skills, otherwise you are playing three guards with the closest to a big guard perhaps being Atkins, but she is too far down the depth chart.

So with the roster she has, I think Stewie at the 3 might be the best among less than favorable choices. First I think our bigs relatively speaking are much better than our guards, and the two natural 4's, Stewart and Wilson might be the two best players on the team, and it is a shame to have one of them sitting for major portions of the game.

For this tournament it is what it is, but next time we need at least one great natural player at each position.
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To your point, such as Sue, D, Maya, and Griner in 2016 with Charles starting at the 4, Augustus coming in at the 3 and Della Donne just coming in as a multiple position player. You have at least 4 starters at their natural positions and arguably the best in the world (Griner or Fowles was a tough call as best in 2016). Now, 3 natural positions, 4 if you count Wilson at the 4, and no 3s. That is a scoring position on this team with Bird and DT throwing fast break passes but it is now the shutdown position for the world's best forward.

I don't get the absent 3 on the team or the no back up pure point guard or the lack of at least 2 great 3 point shooters. I don't care about percentages, I care about getting the shots off, moving to do so, and making them in crunch time. Comparing Atkins, Collier, Gray, Loyd, and Skylar to their counterparts in 2016 is a real drop down. To win this, we will have to rely on a 41 year old point guard and a 39 year old 2 guard to control the team and get it done.
 
Canada led from start to finish and defeated South Korea, 74-53.

Leading scorers for Canada were B. Carleton (18), N. Achonwa (14), K. Alexander (10), K. Nurse (9) and S. Colley (9). Nurse and Carleton were the minutes leaders (34 and 32); no one else played more than 23.

Much like in the first game, Aaliyah Edwards played sparse seconds and had no stats.

Upcoming games:
Thu. 4:20 a.m. ET: Spain vs. Serbia
Thu. 9:00 p.m. ET: Belgium vs. Puerto Rico
Fri. 12:40 a.m. ET: United States vs. Japan
 
The 2016 Olympic team was possibly the greatest team ever. Everyone was a future 1st ballot Naismith Hall of Famer at or near the peak of her career, other than Tamika Catchings, who is already in the HOF. The end of the bench consisted of Catch, Stewie, and EDD. Yikes!

Bird #1 pick, GOAT
Taurasi #1 pick, MVP, GOAT
Moore #1 pick, MVP
Charles #1 pick, MVP
Griner #1 pick
Fowles #2 pick, MVP
Whalen #4 pick
Augustus #1 pick
McCoughtry #1 pick
DelleDonne #2 pick, 2x MVP
Stewart #1 pick, MVP
Catchings #3 pick, MVP

11 of the 12 players were the #1 overall pick and/or a past or future WNBA MVP. These were the best of the best.
 
MilfordHusky said:
The 2016 Olympic team was possibly the greatest team ever. Everyone was a future 1st ballot Naismith Hall of Famer at or near the peak of her career, other than Tamika Catchings, who is already in the HOF. The end of the bench consisted of Catch, Stewie, and EDD. Yikes!

Bird #1 pick, GOAT
Taurasi #1 pick, MVP, GOAT
Moore #1 pick, MVP
Charles #1 pick, MVP
Griner #1 pick
Fowles #2 pick, MVP
Whalen #4 pick
Augustus #1 pick
McCoughtry #1 pick
DelleDonne #2 pick, 2x MVP
Stewart #1 pick, MVP
Catchings #3 pick, MVP

11 of the 12 players were the #1 overall pick and/or a past or future WNBA MVP. These were the best of the best.
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The 2016 team IMO was the greatest ever, no doubt, but not because of their individual bona fides, impressive as they are. It was the combination of experience and chemistry that really set them apart from all other teams in history.

Nine out of the 12 were returning Olympians, and 2 of the 3 Olympic rookies (Griner and EDD) were already multi-time WNBA All-Stars by 2016.

The cohesiveness, chemistry and flow was far and away the best I've ever seen on any team. The coaching staff implemented effective systems for both offense and defense, and all the players knew and excelled in their roles.

Not only is this year's team 50% rookies, but it just can't be overstated what a huge net negative the turnover at guard and wing has been. Spots vacated by Whalen, Augustus, Moore, McCoughtry and Delle Donne are now held by Diggins, Gray, Loyd, Atkins and Collier. There's just no sugar-coating what a collective downgrade that is.

Even for those partisans inclined to doubt Dawn's coaching, the coaching staff also includes two of the greatest coaching minds of our time in Cheryl Reeve and Dan Hughes. (I'll refrain from including Rizzotti in that league.) I keep thinking that surely, from all that experience and knowledge on the bench, must emerge something better than what we've seen thus far.
 
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Plebe said:
Canada led from start to finish and defeated South Korea, 74-53.

Leading scorers for Canada were B. Carleton (18), N. Achonwa (14), K. Alexander (10), K. Nurse (9) and S. Colley (9). Nurse and Carleton were the minutes leaders (34 and 32); no one else played more than 23.

Much like in the first game, Aaliyah Edwards played sparse seconds and had no stats.

Upcoming games:
Thu. 4:20 a.m. ET: Spain vs. Serbia
Thu. 9:00 p.m. ET: Belgium vs. Puerto Rico
Fri. 12:40 a.m. ET: United States vs. Japan
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Carleton was a stud. Tough drives, rebounds and defense all over the place
 
Cazorla with 3 big 3's to turn a 9 pt deficit to 2. Fun game.
 
Plebe said:
The 2016 team IMO was the greatest ever, no doubt, but not because of their individual bona fides, impressive as they are. It was the combination of experience and chemistry that really set them apart from all other teams in history.

Nine out of the 12 were returning Olympians, and 2 of the 3 Olympic rookies (Griner and EDD) were already multi-time WNBA All-Stars by 2016.

The cohesiveness, chemistry and flow was far and away the best I've ever seen on any team. The coaching staff implemented effective systems for both offense and defense, and all the players knew and excelled in their roles.

Not only is this year's team 50% rookies, but it just can't be overstated what a huge net negative the turnover at guard and wing has been. Spots vacated by Whalen, Augustus, Moore, McCoughtry and Delle Donne are now held by Diggins, Gray, Loyd, Atkins and Collier. There's just no sugar-coating what a collective downgrade that is.

Even for those partisans inclined to doubt Dawn's coaching, the coaching staff also includes two of the greatest coaching minds of our time in Cheryl Reeve and Dan Hughes. (I'll refrain from including Rizzotti in that league.) I keep thinking that surely, from all that experience and knowledge on the bench, must emerge something better than what we've seen thus far.
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I think they will improve because they are practicing and playing more together and because of D and Sue leading them but there are not a lot of coaching moves that can solve this horrible team selection. The biggest issue is to unleash Stewie and if that means sliding her to the 4 with Wilson or someone else at the 5 and playing 3 guards then it had to be tried as it was against Nigeria. The problem is who is the third guard? None of the non-starters were suitable as a 3 in my mind so you are weakening that position if you move Stewie out of it. How did they not figure this out when picking this team?
 
Bald Huskie said:
Sabrina and Paige would be pretty impressive, although they might save Paige for 2028 at which time Azzi would be ready.
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Don't think so. By 2024 Paige will be 3 years older and better and of "Jordanesque" type stature in 1984. I also expect Clark, Plum, Sabrina and Aliisha Gray to be in the running for guard spots. Azzi will be a rising senior but anything is possible with her shot.
 
eebmg said:
Cazorla with 3 big 3's to turn a 9 pt deficit to 2. Fun game.
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Didn't watch this game in the dead of night, but I see that Serbia led by as much as 9 in the 3rd quarter before Spain came roaring back, apparently with significant help from Cazorla, and ended up winning by 85-70.

Spain's scoring was led by Torrens (25), Ndour (20) and Cazorla, who came off the bench to score 17. Great game from the former Oregon Duck.
 
Plebe said:
Didn't watch this game in the dead of night, but I see that Serbia led by as much as 9 in the 3rd quarter before Spain came roaring back, apparently with significant help from Cazorla, and ended up winning by 85-70.

Spain's scoring was led by Torrens (25), Ndour (20) and Cazorla, who came off the bench to score 17. Great game from the former Oregon Duck.
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Actually NDour was the real hero imo. Challenging hard on the boards and concerting multiple and ones. Just a beast. Just like game 1
 
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Disappointed in the guard play outside of Sue, Diana, and Jewell. They can't play 40 minutes at 2 positions between the 3 of them.

Against a Nigerian team that was supposed to be way overmatched, the guard subs were just not good.

Will be very interesting to see how they do going forward.
 
I did believe that A. Edwards would be more of a force on Team Canada. Anyone else surprised?
 
Stymie said:
I did believe that A. Edwards would be more of a force on Team Canada. Anyone else surprised?
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Yes and even Geno must be going "What?" when she could net get a few minutes at the end of the game up 20 but Amihere showed a more offensive driving game in the games leading up and Canada needs offense . I am sure this will fuel her to get better
 
eebmg said:
Yes and even Geno must be going "What?" when she could net get a few minutes at the end of the game up 20 but Amihere showed a more offensive driving game in the games leading up and Canada needs offense . I am sure this will fuel her to get better
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I first thought she might get significant time because Achonwa was recovering from injury, but she recovered. Playing behind Amihere, however, is pretty disappointing, I didn't expect that, and it hurts even more when she is a player on perhaps our biggest challenger this year.
 
oldhuskie said:
I first thought she might get significant time because Achonwa was recovering from injury, but she recovered. Playing behind Amihere, however, is pretty disappointing, I didn't expect that, and it hurts even more when she is a player on perhaps our biggest challenger this year.
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Amihere had that "aha" moment in the Brazil game where she just went bonkers on drives facing the basket from the post and her confidence has clearly not diminished. Aaliyah will get there but it will be more gradual
 
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