Ollie's Contract

[huskymagic]

Elite programs or fans don't make excuses or accept mediocrity. This team and some have begun that trend to accept our current and past seasons. YES we are spoiled as a fan base, so what! I'm expecting a strong season year in and out... what's happening now is the opposite of that, it's both sad and disappointing. We all have our opinions and that's great, but for all this program has been through, we are trending in the wrong direction, can't dispute that... don't bring the great recruiting classes, 20 win season blah blah... just win the damn games we are supposed to win and actual play with a purpose, none of which we have shown any consistency with over his tenure and you can't dispute that..

Bro you are absolutely right but you aren't going to convince Fleud as he is one of Ollie's biggest apologists and defenders on here. In the current landscape, he expected D-Ham to be back when he was thinking of leaving for the NBA after his freshman year. Ollie will get a pass this year with 3 fortuitous season ending injuries and another player in Durham coming off 2 years of injuries. That still doesn't excuse the effort and ineptitude we see from our players and team out there. Next year will be judgement day no question about it and there wont be anymore excuses about Brimah or Purvis. Hopefully, this was all a nightmare and we can wake up next year knowing it was just a dream and not our everyday reality.

 

[Brandon86]

Things went south for Kevin Ollie. Surely he planned to have Hamilton back, and then the injuries happend this year. If everything fell into place, we would be contending for a Title probably this year. Wouldn't hear nobody talking about Ollie.

 

[Travelman6]

What are you 3? Go post on the women's board

Calm down. It was a simple question.

 

[ctchamps]

One unifying characteristic of elite institutions (across athletics, business, academics, etc.) is taking pride in being held to high standards and having high expectations.

There's a difference between realism in evaluating the present (what I'm doing) and preemptively lowering expectations for the future (what you're doing).

LOL. You don't even hear yourself do you?
You wrote this: By the way, my expectation level for next year is already lower than it was in this past offseason. This past offseason I expected this year to be Top 25 and Sweet 16, with next year a truly dominant run befitting this program's history. I have pushed that back a year given the circumstances.

I asked you to explain that paragraph and you came up with the cliched statements of pride and realistic evaluation. Nice deflection but this isn't tennis. I can cliche back and say "Pride goeth before a fall".

 

[Travelman6]

Things went south for Kevin Ollie. Surely he planned to have Hamilton back, and then the injuries happend this year. If everything fell into place, we would be contending for a Title probably this year. Wouldn't hear nobody talking about Ollie.

Wishful thinking. Maybe sweet 16, at best, for next year.

 

[David 76]

He told Hamilton (correctly) he should come back. He also had TL and VD as back ups.

 

[cordeodato]

This is very simple. If we are not in a P5 conference and Ollie leaves we become a third world program

 

[mauconnfan]

Elite programs or fans don't make excuses or accept mediocrity. This team and some have begun that trend to accept our current and past seasons. YES we are spoiled as a fan base, so what! I'm expecting a strong season year in and out... what's happening now is the opposite of that, it's both sad and disappointing. We all have our opinions and that's great, but for all this program has been through, we are trending in the wrong direction, can't dispute that... don't bring the great recruiting classes, 20 win season blah blah... just win the damn games we are supposed to win and actual play with a purpose, none of which we have shown any consistency with over his tenure and you can't dispute that..

You've made it to the big time, huskymagic agrees with you!

 

[UConnDan97]

You really are dense. There will be no NCAA tournament for UConn this season. That is obvious to any objective person. Therefore, UConn will have won 1 NCAA tournament game in the last 3 seasons. Is this really so hard to see?

Okay. But if we win the AAC tourney on home soil and punch our ticket, I'm sure you'll agree to delete your Boneyard account, right? Because...I mean...there's no chance of it happening, so you have nothing to lose...

 

[Stainmaster]

This is very simple. If we are not in a P5 conference and Ollie leaves we become a third world program

This. Apparently people think Dan Hurley or Bill Coen would be able to beat Calipari for top-10 recruits and rip off 30-win seasons immediately...bless their hearts.

 

[ctchamps]

More than yours, I've actually coached college ball...recruited, taken the NCAA compliance exam for coaches..you?

Yep more than me. Congratulations.
It still begs the question as to your record? I'm just curious if you have been more successful than KO. Did you coach at the Division 1 level? If so did you bring your team to the NCAA tournament? If so how far did you go in the tournament? How often? If not D1 why not? What stopped you? If not is your criticism towards KO sour grapes?

Maybe you're JC and this is an outlet for you. I want you to know I still have the autograph from the Simon and Garfunkle concert.

I promise you I won't belittle your accomplishments. I'm just curious if you hold yourself accountable to the same standards you insist on others.

 

[UConnDan97]

Yeah like you've never made a mistake in life, thank you Jesus...give it a rest..

Read his response to me and realize that it wasn't a mistake before you comment. Go back to the car wash...

 

[Mr. French]

I think the hyperbole and, sometimes, entitlement of one side of this arguement lead to hyperbole and defensiveness on the other.

If you aren't worried about UConn basketball, you must not have a pulse.

If you think Ollie should be fired, you are stupid or way too emotional.

I think it is reasonable to expect significant improvement next year and, if not, to start this conversation. And I love KO

Exactly right.

That's the small thing that makes ALL the difference. START the conversation IF that doesn't happen.

 

[ctchamps]

Exactly right.

That's the small thing that makes ALL the difference. START the conversation IF that doesn't happen.

I'd have moved it out one more year, but have no qualms about starting it next season. I'd just choose my jury selectively.

 

[ctchamps]

I think the hyperbole and, sometimes, entitlement of one side of this arguement lead to hyperbole and defensiveness on the other.

If you aren't worried about UConn basketball, you must not have a pulse.

If you think Ollie should be fired, you are stupid or way too emotional.

I think it is reasonable to expect significant improvement next year and, if not, to start this conversation. And I love KO

I can't speak for others but I can explain myself.
First: I thought I'd lower myself and have some fun going toe to toe with a couple of people. After all this is a board about sports. So what if I'm confused and make a sport of things because I'm bored.
Second @UConnDan97 is fighting the good fight alone. @jrazz12 has given up (hopefully temporarily) and so I thought I'd offer Dan my assistance. Now it's two on five and I like our odds.
And D: its exhausting taking the high road all the time. It's much easier being an idiot. You don't have to think before you post. This is like going zone after playing man to man which is ironic given that when I'm calling out individual posters, as opposed to making an astute observation as yours, I'm going mano a mano.

 

[David 76]

.
And D: its exhausting taking the high road all the time. It's much easier being an idiot. You don't have to think before you post. This is like going zone after playing man to man which is ironic given that when I'm calling out individual posters, as opposed to making an astute observation as yours, I'm going mano a mano.

Oh, I've been the idiot plenty of times

 

[metsfan2323]

This is very simple. If we are not in a P5 conference and Ollie leaves we become a third world program

That's a load of crud.

Explain Cincinnati then? They have seen no drop off in the AAC with Cronin at the helm. Cronin must be a freaking genius, put him in the Hall of Fame.

If Ollie leaves our safety coach is Pikiell, at least he wins the games he is supposed to win. No full squad losses to Wagner's or Northeastern's in his year one at Rutgers this year.

 

[ctchamps]

Oh, I've been the idiot plenty of times

I think you're going to have to up your game. To get to the level of some of these guys you have to be an idiot and be totally unaware your acting idiotic. The best idiots are those that never know it. Some of these guys are working on it but I'm holding them to the standard of chief00. That dude is the gold standard of unawareness.

I'm not sure I can attain that level of idiocy so I'm working on the finesse of idiocy. It stands to reason. I loved acing my opponents in tennis, especially the one dude who loved going back and forth with me talking smack. But that satisfaction was nothing compared to when the opponent thought I was going to hit the ball hard to the base line and instead I sliced it just over the net. I received more curses from that type of play then any wicked corner shots I'd hit.

 

[tower1]

Funny how you're not gonna defend that Izzo comment anymore, now that you rememberwho they also lost to.

Here's the point I'm making that some are losing out on. Did Tom Izzo, a hall of fame coach with an exceptional record, get dumb all of a sudden? Or could it be that some years you don't have the pieces that you need to accomplish what you want to? Did Calhoun never go to the NIT? That's rhetorical, so don't answer it.

We lost our starting point guard, or leading scorer, we are incorporating 4 kids into getting major minutes at the college level who have never done it, and we are asking role players to become target players despite all evidence to the contrary that they can do it. And we're doing all of that while changing our core defensive style because we don't have enough warm bodies to play man to man.

Did Ollie forget basketball this year along with Izzo? Or could it just be that this year is spiraling into the toilet and that's leading to a morale-busting situation for the players. Should Ollie expect to get so little production from Adams, Purvis, and Brimah put together like last night?

So this is what I'm choosing to focus on; Vance is getting much better, Vital is getting better in spurts, Enoch was improving before the injury, Facey is SO much better than he has ever been, Durham is showing some nice things around the rim, and Jalen on most nights seems to be developing into a star leader. In this crap fest of a year, I'll at least take that development as a positive sign that next year with the addition of Larrier, Gilbert, and company, that we'll be in much much better shape...

Seems you have fallen in love with him and are not accepting the facts.

 

[Tenspro2002]

This. Apparently people think Dan Hurley or Bill Coen would be able to beat Calipari for top-10 recruits and rip off 30-win seasons immediately...bless their hearts.

I get the practicalities.

But you're effectively saying "KO, even with mediocre results, is the best we can do". In other words, "accept being a second rate program".

You shouldn't be surprised that many fans take pride in having higher expectations than that.

 

[Stainmaster]

I get the practicalities.

But you're effectively saying "KO, even with mediocre results, is the best we can do". In other words, "accept being a second rate program".

You shouldn't be surprised that many fans take pride in having higher expectations than that.

Look at it this way; no matter what false narrative you and others try and superimpose, this season is not the norm under Ollie. It can, and very easily will, become the norm if Ollie is dumped and we have to hire an A10/CAA/mid-major coach, because our non-P5 status takes us down a notch in the eyes of potential HC candidates and means we have less $ to pay them with.

Additionally, looking at how Ollie's post-sanctions recruits (Adams, Jackson, Durham) are starting to develop and poise themselves to replace the Purvises and Brimahs, it's more than fair to assume the team's ability will improve in the coming seasons.

Bottom line, I still find your expectations unrealistic and irrational. And when Ollie's replacement has one tourney birth in his first three years, is pulling in 3-star combo guards as the highlights of his recruiting classes instead of one-offs to round out classes, and is even further from beating Duke and Kentucky on the court and on the recruiting trail than Ollie will be, you'll see why.

 

[Huskybass]

You're conveniently conflating two things. He obviously understands the point of one victory in three seasons (although you cannot be absolutely certain about this season). He's not choosing to weight this observation to the degree you would like. I'm with him.

Respectful reply. I enjoy your posts even if I am on the opposite side of the discussion.

I guess I have grown accustomed to having Nationally ranked, relevant teams for a few decades. These past three seasons have been underwhelming, to say the least. I always feel like we have to way "outtalent" the other team to win, because there will be so many shaky plays and decisions. Some would call it low basketball IQ.

Honestly, I am concerned that a program that reached the status of quasi blueblood will become what it was in the Yankee Conference days.

Sad to think of not having a dog in the fight, I guess. Just being honest.

 

[UConnDan97]

Seems you have fallen in love with him and are not accepting the facts.

A man takes over a program with the endorsement of the greatest basketball coach in ncaa men's history. He then deals with the loss of scholarships due to apr and the defection of key players. He coaches up the players who stay and wins a national championship against the odds. He wins 20 or more games in every season he coaches here. He pulls down multiple top 100 recruits in the process, even while being stuck in the lower profile AAC basketball conference. And even during this aberrant year of injury after injury, most of the young players like Vance, Adams, etc., continue to improve their game.

Not accepting the facts? Son, I seem to be one of the few people on this board willing to accept them...

 

[Tenspro2002]

Look at it this way; no matter what false narrative you and others try and superimpose, this season is not the norm under Ollie. It can, and very easily will, become the norm if Ollie is dumped and we have to hire an A10/CAA/mid-major coach, because our non-P5 status takes us down a notch in the eyes of potential HC candidates and means we have less $ to pay them with.

Additionally, looking at how Ollie's post-sanctions recruits (Adams, Jackson, Durham) are starting to develop and poise themselves to replace the Purvises and Brimahs, it's more than fair to assume the team's ability will improve in the coming seasons.

Bottom line, I still find your expectations unrealistic and irrational. And when Ollie's replacement has one tourney birth in his first three years, is pulling in 3-star combo guards as the highlights of his recruiting classes instead of one-offs to round out classes, and is even further from beating Duke and Kentucky on the court and on the recruiting trail than Ollie will be, you'll see why.

I never claimed that this season was the norm, you have to admit that's a pretty disingenuous strawman.

I also agree that recruiting is on the upswing. That said, we have to start seeing results on the court.

Let me ask without judgment: what are your minimum expectations for next year and/or the year after, and what changes, if any, would you demand to see if they are not met?

 

[David 76]

I think you're going to have to up your game. To get to the level of some of these guys you have to be an idiot and be totally unaware your acting idiotic. The best idiots are those that never know it. Some of these guys are working on it but I'm holding them to the standard of chief00. That dude is the gold standard of unawareness.

I'm not sure I can attain that level of idiocy so I'm working on the finesse of idiocy. It stands to reason. I loved acing my opponents in tennis, especially the one dude who loved going back and forth with me talking smack. But that satisfaction was nothing compared to when the opponent thought I was going to hit the ball hard to the base line and instead I sliced it just over the net. I received more curses from that type of play then any wicked corner shots I'd hit.

Well, I may be an idiot, but I'm no Chief.

 

[Matrim55]

Respectful reply. I enjoy your posts even if I am on the opposite side of the discussion.

I guess I have grown accustomed to having Nationally ranked, relevant teams for a few decades. These past three seasons have been underwhelming, to say the least. I always feel like we have to way "outtalent" the other team to win, because there will be so many shaky plays and decisions. Some would call it low basketball IQ.

I don't understand how people can feel this way and then not marry it to the context of "hey we had crappy or patchwork recruiting classes for 4 straight years, so this is the result."

Don't you care about context?

Honestly, I am concerned that a program that reached the status of quasi blueblood will become what it was in the Yankee Conference days.

I just can't imagine how you can come to that conclusion after having a top 10 recruiting class last year and a top 20 coming for 2017.

Is there no ability to have a perspective? To understand that because of the sanctions/CR/scholarship reduction of the first half of this decade, we're now suffering for a year or two on the back half and won't be able to put together a "typical" UConn team until we string together a couple of full classes and let them grow for a year or two?

I simply don't understand this.

 

[7774]

More than yours, I've actually coached college ball...recruited, taken the NCAA compliance exam for coaches..you?

Damn if your ability to think as a coach was anywhere near the level of thinking you've displayed in this thread, whoever hired you should have been inducted into the Bad Decision Making Hall of Fame immediately.

 

[ctchamps]

Respectful reply. I enjoy your posts even if I am on the opposite side of the discussion.

I guess I have grown accustomed to having Nationally ranked, relevant teams for a few decades. These past three seasons have been underwhelming, to say the least. I always feel like we have to way "outtalent" the other team to win, because there will be so many shaky plays and decisions. Some would call it low basketball IQ.

Honestly, I am concerned that a program that reached the status of quasi blueblood will become what it was in the Yankee Conference days.

Sad to think of not having a dog in the fight, I guess. Just being honest.

Love your honesty. You're concerns are reasonable. I think everyone in this forum has similar concerns. I know I do.

There just is a camp that finds it difficult to accept that we all have concerns if we don't go ballistic about things or if we tend to factor things differently or weigh them differently. As soon as I see someone say x is making excuses or being an apologista I know that individual is doing two things. The first is he's relating his opinion about an issue. Those opinions might even have some merit or lots of merit. The second is he's not interested in rational debate even if the posts appear rational. He needs to be right. He's come up with a conclusion and creates the narrative to fit the conclusion and any difference of an opinion is not just a difference of an opinion. It's personal.

No one knows all of the factors involved over any event. So we're already at a disadvantage in making projections. But we can start with the factors we know. And then we can decide how much weight we assign to those factors. And even if everyone was in agreement there is no way to know if the conclusion based on discussion would result into the outcome we project. Those of us that are reasonable go through this process automatically and know the future is not predictable. The best we can do is assign probable outcomes.

The less reasonable believe that they know the future with certainty.

 

[7774]

I don't understand how people can feel this way and then not marry it to the context of "hey we had crappy or patchwork recruiting classes for 4 straight years, so this is the result."

Don't you care about context?


I just can't imagine how you can come to that conclusion after having a top 10 recruiting class last year and a top 20 coming for 2017.

Is there no ability to have a perspective? To understand that because of the sanctions/CR/scholarship reduction of the first half of this decade, we're now suffering for a year or two on the back half and won't be able to put together a "typical" UConn team until we string together a couple of full classes and let them grow for a year or two?

I simply don't understand this.

You say you don't understand, but really you do. They're idiots. We're talking about a bunch of people who think our main problem is injuries or coaching, when our main problem is exactly what you outlined in this post.

Calhoun's last 3 years were NIT, Kemba Walker, and worse version of last year. We then transitioned to a new/worse coach that hadn't had time to build up an advanced recruiting network, while having a tournament ban and all the recruiting/scholarship restrictions you mentioned.

That killed a couple of recruiting classes, which are now last year's senior class, this year's senior class, and this year's junior class. They're nice people but not even in the ballpark in terms of the consistency needed to lead a high level team, which is what we've always relied on from our juniors and seniors.

Our freshman and sophomore players are good, but they are freshman and sophomores, and half of them got injured, so now we're here.

And in the face of all this, the response you'll get from the people you're talking about is "We're UConn so blah, blah, blah".

That's sadly the most advanced level on which they are capable of thinking.

 

[huskymagic]

It's hilarious how anybody who is concerned about Ollie's coaching product for the last 3 years with his own players is immediately attacked for stating the obvious, but nobody is really surprised. Here is a reality wake up call for the usual characters: Ollie is a 1 percenter in earnings and wealth($3 million per year), in a 1 percenter job(high major D1 coaching job) at a 1 percenter basketball university(UCONN) with a 1 percenter name recognition(Kevin Ollie) with a 1 percenter geographic location(NYC metro and Boston metro area) and yet not finishing ahead of Tulsa or SMU or Cincinnati yearly in the AAC is somehow way to high of a bar for Ollie. I mean what do these crazy people think that expecting UCONN to be at the top of the AAC regular season is easy.

PS: Kevin Ollie deserves the criticism he is getting, but no wants to see him fail as some are implying. We want to see UCONN be at least Cincinnati or SMU during the regular season, which is the least that should be expected for a program of our stature.