Ollie's Contract | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Ollie's Contract

UConnDan97 said:
He's got 7 scholarship players to use right now. 7. I wish I knew what the hell it is that people think Tom Izzo could do with this team?? Or Coach K? Or Calipari? Or you fill in the blank with whomever you want.

Are the underclassmen getting better? YES. undeniably yes.
Players like Facey and Adams getting better? By leaps and bounds.
And all of this under the very worst of conditions with no bench. He's mixing zones to mask it, and he has a 7 foot center who can't stay on the court for more than 5 minutes a game.

Honestly, what the hell do you want him to do?!?
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The no depth, only 7 players mantra only goes so far. There are teams playing 5 and 6 deep that can play and do play at a high level. We supposedly have talented, high level players and while not all starters should be able to compete. Poor execution, no intensity, lapses in concentration ... all point towards a poorly coached squad. We see glimpses of what they can do, it's just not repeatable or sustainable. I have little doubt under JC this squad would be over 500(still struggling but winning more than losing) because he demanded that level of execution and commitment to high level play. I hope KO gets his act together. I really do. We can't afford another program crashing and burning.
 
BlueDogs said:
The no depth, only 7 players mantra only goes so far. There are teams playing 5 and 6 deep that can play and do play at a high level. We supposedly have talented, high level players and while not all starters should be able to compete. Poor execution, no intensity, lapses in concentration ... all point towards a poorly coached squad. We see glimpses of what they can do, it's just not repeatable or sustainable. I have little doubt under JC this squad would be over 500(still struggling but winning more than losing) because he demanded that level of execution and commitment to high level play. I hope KO gets his act together. I really do. We can't afford another program crashing and burning.
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Okay, I'm fine with this. Feel free to provide the name of the aforementioned high level schools, along with their box scores showing that they only used 5 to 6 players, and then I'll be done with the argument, even if we aren't able to use our best 6. Sound good?
 
BlueDogs said:
The no depth, only 7 players mantra only goes so far. There are teams playing 5 and 6 deep that can play and do play at a high level. We supposedly have talented, high level players and while not all starters should be able to compete. Poor execution, no intensity, lapses in concentration ... all point towards a poorly coached squad. We see glimpses of what they can do, it's just not repeatable or sustainable. I have little doubt under JC this squad would be over 500(still struggling but winning more than losing) because he demanded that level of execution and commitment to high level play. I hope KO gets his act together. I really do. We can't afford another program crashing and burning.
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Ridiculous to compare the 6-7 man teams you are thinking of vs this team which is playing 2-3 guys who would have gotten less than 10 minutes of burn with a full healthy roster.

Exectution - isn't good but if you know basketball you need players who can execute to make that happen. They don't enough f them
Intensity - not sure what you're watching they play hard don't mix that up with no being that talented or good.
Lapses in concentration - again is it that or is just they're not that good?

When the team is healthy KO will have "his act together" just be sure to show up and applaud when they are good next year ok?
 
UConnDan97 said:
Okay, I'm fine with this. Feel free to provide the name of the aforementioned high level schools, along with their box scores showing that they only used 5 to 6 players, and then I'll be done with the argument, even if we aren't able to use our best 6. Sound good?
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I'm not discounting what you are saying. What I'm saying is you can find schools that can run deep in March with one or two key players and plenty of holes and majorly thin benches with talent that drops off significantly after no. 6. I don't expect miracles, but I am having trouble understanding how badly they perform with kids that are probably innately more talented and athletic than say kids at Northeastern.
 
BlueDogs said:
I'm not discounting what you are saying. What I'm saying is you can find schools that can run deep in March with one or two key players and plenty of holes and majorly thin benches with talent that drops off significantly after no. 6. I don't expect miracles, but I am having trouble understanding how badly they perform with kids that are probably innately more talented and athletic than say kids at Northeastern.
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Like I said, I'm fine with your point of high-level teams that use 5 to 6 players only. Just provide them for me. Unless of course you were exaggerating a little. That seems to be going around nowadays...
 
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Athlete94 said:
Doubt it, if that were the case he'd be playing in the NBA now instead of the D-League... decent talent, yes, but if he catches on in the NBA it will be a while... Not my favorite UCONN player, too much of a one on one guy... but good chat
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You realize that DHam is averaging 15/8/5 against higher level competition, right? He would undoubtedly be averaging a double-double for us and would create a mismatch that other teammates like Adams could exploit.

My goodness. Now, we aren't sure if last year's best player could help us this year? This board...
 
UConnDan97 said:
You realize that DHam is averaging 15/8/5 against higher level competition, right? He would undoubtedly be averaging a double-double for us and would create a mismatch that other teammates like Adams could exploit.

My goodness. Now, we aren't sure if last year's best player could help us this year? This board...
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You're doing yeoman's work here my man. I've given up, the dumb portion of the board is running rampant to the point where it would be a full time job combatting the Chicken Littles here. Logic and context are a lost concept.
 
mauconnfan said:
Ridiculous to compare the 6-7 man teams you are thinking of vs this team which is playing 2-3 guys who would have gotten less than 10 minutes of burn with a full healthy roster.

Exectution - isn't good but if you know basketball you need players who can execute to make that happen. They don't enough f them
Intensity - not sure what you're watching they play hard don't mix that up with no being that talented or good.
Lapses in concentration - again is it that or is just they're not that good?

When the team is healthy KO will have "his act together" just be sure to show up and applaud when they are good next year ok?
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I'm only interested in seeing our guys do well. No axe to grind. I'm more curious as to why KO can't get them playing better. You see glimpses of really high level play but then it just falls apart. Immaturity of players is a factor, but that should wane as you get enough reps and get deeper into the season. I have hope every time they hit the floor that it will click.
 
UConnDan97 said:
Like I said, I'm fine with your point of high-level teams that use 5 to 6 players only. Just provide them for me. Unless of course you were exaggerating a little. That seems to be going around nowadays...
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Let me be clear - teams that can play at a high level against top competition with incomplete squads..... I could throw Butler, Dayton, Crieghton, an Ivy League Champion, Davidson, VCU,etc.. out there at different times to make the point. I'll do some checking...
 
BlueDogs said:
Let me be clear - teams that can play at a high level against top competition with incomplete squads..... I could throw Butler, Dayton, Crieghton, an Ivy League Champion, Davidson, VCU,etc.. out there at different times to make the point. I'll do some checking...
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Okay, I'll wait for you to check. Again it's much different to say you're winning with an incomplete team vs. you're winning with 5 to 6 players like you've claimed. Winning with 5 players means you never make a substitution all game, which I hope you understand is absurd, right??
 
UConnDan97 said:
Okay, I'll wait for you to check. Again it's much different to say you're winning with an incomplete team vs. you're winning with 5 to 6 players like you've claimed. Winning with 5 players means you never make a substitution all game, which I hope you understand is absurd, right??
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Of course it's absurd. That wasn't what I was saying but the key is the box score on production.
 
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UConnDan97 said:
Then I'm sure he should have said 2 years instead of exaggerating to try to further his agenda...
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You really are dense. There will be no NCAA tournament for UConn this season. That is obvious to any objective person. Therefore, UConn will have won 1 NCAA tournament game in the last 3 seasons. Is this really so hard to see?
 
UConnDan97 said:
You realize that DHam is averaging 15/8/5 against higher level competition, right? He would undoubtedly be averaging a double-double for us and would create a mismatch that other teammates like Adams could exploit.

My goodness. Now, we aren't sure if last year's best player could help us this year? This board...
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You realize he's in the D League right.. You're right about one thing, people on the board like you live in the past... DHam isn't on this team, so who gives a rats .... about if he could help this team! That's like saying "Man, if I only that girl went to the prom with me instead of that other guy, I could have been King...
 
UConnDan97 said:
Then I'm sure he should have said 2 years instead of exaggerating to try to further his agenda...
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Yeah like you've never made a mistake in life, thank you Jesus...give it a rest..
 
mauconnfan said:
When the team is healthy KO will have "his act together" just be sure to show up and applaud when they are good next year ok?
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I'm just curious: what level of success would you consider adequate for next year?

If the team falls short of that success, should KO be on the hot seat going into the following year?
 
Athlete94 said:
You realize he's in the D League right.. You're right about one thing, people on the board like you live in the past... DHam isn't on this team, so who gives a rats .... about if he could help this team! That's like saying "Man, if I only that girl went to the prom with me instead of that other guy, I could have been King...
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It's relevant. The classes were recruited with Vance being a back up to DHam and not a player the team had to rely on. Vance is doing well right now, but the loss of DHam and the injury to Terry required some development time for a player not counted on to provide significant minutes. That time contributed to losses.
 
Huskybass said:
You really are dense. There will be no NCAA tournament for UConn this season. That is obvious to any objective person. Therefore, UConn will have won 1 NCAA tournament game in the last 3 seasons. Is this really so hard to see?
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You're conveniently conflating two things. He obviously understands the point of one victory in three seasons (although you cannot be absolutely certain about this season). He's not choosing to weight this observation to the degree you would like. I'm with him.
 
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Tenspro2002 said:
I'm just curious: what level of success would you consider adequate for next year?

If the team falls short of that success, should KO be on the hot seat going into the following year?
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I'd be more critical next season than I'm going to be because there are/were a lot of factors that were beyond his control prior to this season and during this season that I cannot ignore and which I believe strongly factor into the success versus failure equation next year.

If Durham entered the program as the same player when he was recruited by KO, if Alterique did not get hurt over the summer and reinjure himself resulting in missing practically all of this season, ditto with Terry's injury, if Zach Brown did not self destruct and had his scholarship revoked or even if he self destructed at the beginning of his recruitment to give KO time to emphasize recruitment of a different five, if the APR were not a factor forcing him to have to recruit Steve, a player with little experience in the game then yes I'd have a different critical eye to the development of the team's play.

But these things happened and none of them were within KO's control. And all of them have a significant impact on the development of the team. So no I'm not looking at next year with the same lens as you.
 
fleudslipcon said:
I'd be more critical next season than I'm going to be because there are/were a lot of factors that were beyond his control prior to this season and during this season that I cannot ignore and which I believe strongly factor into the success versus failure equation next year.

If Durham entered the program as the same player when he was recruited by KO, if Alterique did not get hurt over the summer and reinjure himself resulting in missing practically all of this season, ditto with Terry's injury, if Zach Brown did not self destruct and had his scholarship revoked or even if he self destructed at the beginning of his recruitment to give KO time to emphasize recruitment of a different five, if the APR were not a factor forcing him to have to recruit Steve, a player with little experience in the game then yes I'd have a different critical eye to the development of the team's play.

But these things happened and none of them were within KO's control. And all of them have a significant impact on the development of the team. So no I'm not looking at next year with the same lens as you.
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So we're already crafting excuses for next year? Do we still consider ourselves an elite program or no?

By the way, my expectation level for next year is already lower than it was in this past offseason. This past offseason I expected this year to be Top 25 and Sweet 16, with next year a truly dominant run befitting this program's history. I have pushed that back a year given the circumstances.
 
fleudslipcon said:
It's relevant. The classes were recruited with Vance being a back up to DHam and not a player the team had to rely on. Vance is doing well right now, but the loss of DHam and the injury to Terry required some development time for a player not counted on to provide significant minutes. That time contributed to losses.
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Cry me a river, more excuses, stop already, getting old... it's called college sports, college recruiting... all on the coaching staff..
 
Tenspro2002 said:
So we're already crafting excuses for next year? Do we still consider ourselves an elite program or no?

By the way, my expectation level for next year is already lower than it was in this past offseason. This past offseason I expected this year to be Top 25 and Sweet 16, with next year a truly dominant run befitting this program's history. I have pushed that back a year given the circumstances.
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Did the events that I list happen? Do you think they have little or no impact on team development? Why should I omit them or reduce them to reach your conclusion?

And your last sentence almost seems to contradict the snarky retort you made to me. What are the circumstance you allude to? How are they not excuses while the points I make happen to be?

I guess I'm entitled to answer your second question with a little snark of my own: We are still an elite program but with less than elite fans.
 
At the very least, for those against firing Ollie (and I am on the fence), surely you must admit he/someone needs to make some changes to the coaching staff below him starting in 2017-2018. Maybe not a Blaney type, but at least somehow who specializes in coaching certain things, certain fundamental like rebounding or, uh, conditioning, as some of these players look dead out there at the end of games, still.

Or like a "big man" coach. I don't know, I do not know the extent of the coaching staff or different roles each one plays but I assume they have a lot of coaches under Ollie who work on different things.
 
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fleudslipcon said:
Did the events that I list happen? Do you think they have little or no impact on team development? Why should I omit them or reduce them to reach your conclusion?

And your last sentence almost seems to contradict the snarky retort you made to me. What are the circumstance you allude to? How are they not excuses while the points I make happen to be?

I guess I'm entitled to answer your second question with a little snark of my own: We are still an elite program but with less than elite fans.
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One unifying characteristic of elite institutions (across athletics, business, academics, etc.) is taking pride in being held to high standards and having high expectations.

There's a difference between realism in evaluating the present (what I'm doing) and preemptively lowering expectations for the future (what you're doing).
 
fleudslipcon said:
Did the events that I list happen? Do you think they have little or no impact on team development? Why should I omit them or reduce them to reach your conclusion?

And your last sentence almost seems to contradict the snarky retort you made to me. What are the circumstance you allude to? How are they not excuses while the points I make happen to be?

I guess I'm entitled to answer your second question with a little snark of my own: We are still an elite program but with less than elite fans.
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Elite programs or fans don't make excuses or accept mediocrity. This team and some have begun that trend to accept our current and past seasons. YES we are spoiled as a fan base, so what! I'm expecting a strong season year in and out... what's happening now is the opposite of that, it's both sad and disappointing. We all have our opinions and that's great, but for all this program has been through, we are trending in the wrong direction, can't dispute that... don't bring the great recruiting classes, 20 win season blah blah... just win the damn games we are supposed to win and actual play with a purpose, none of which we have shown any consistency with over his tenure and you can't dispute that..
 
fleudslipcon said:
Of course it is. Just curious what's your record as a coach?
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More than yours, I've actually coached college ball...recruited, taken the NCAA compliance exam for coaches..you?
 
I think the hyperbole and, sometimes, entitlement of one side of this arguement lead to hyperbole and defensiveness on the other.

If you aren't worried about UConn basketball, you must not have a pulse.

If you think Ollie should be fired, you are stupid or way too emotional.

I think it is reasonable to expect significant improvement next year and, if not, to start this conversation. And I love KO
 
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