Ollie and staff have done the impossible

[tzznandrew]

And I think your point of view and opinion are fair. But there's nothing wrong with riding out threads, either, in my opinion. Look, some of the posts may be wrong, but not all the criticizing posts are gibberish. What seems to happen here is that people start to label everything negative as gibberish - that's what I think is/would be a dangerous precedent.

Well, there can be. I won't get into the debate about this thread, but players, parents, coaches, recruits, etc. read this site. So this isn't going into the ether. Hell, @mauconnfan got called out by Calhoun (not by name) for the criticism he gave Taliek. So while the mods here let a lot go, rock is right in that it can't just be an anonymous venting board.

 

[JMick]

Well, there can be. I won't get into the debate about this thread, but players, parents, coaches, recruits, etc. read this site. So this isn't going into the ether. Hell, @mauconnfan got called out by Calhoun (not by name) for the criticism he gave Taliek. So while the mods here let a lot go, rock is right in that it can't just be an anonymous venting board.

Maybe we're from a different generation then, but imo anything online that isn't illegal is fair game. Mods/Admins have the right to remove whatever they please but let's be honest - it's not my fault or your fault that someone connected to the program reads a post here.

 

[UCweCONN]

Would he have beaten himself like KO did this very season?

Not sure, but he'll be in the NCAA tournament while we're mailing it in and going out in the first round of the NIT. Speaking of the NIT, we shouldn't accept invites to the NIT anymore. Our players have no interest in being there. The NIT is great for programs on their way up.

 

[tzznandrew]

Maybe we're from a different generation then, but imo anything online that isn't illegal is fair game. Mods/Admins have the right to remove whatever they please but let's be honest - it's not my fault or your fault that someone connected to the program reads a post here.

If something you say online even tangentially affects the team, you have to actually think about it, and not post gibberish.

In "my generation" if you wouldn't say something to someone's face, you shouldn't say it. That's pretty much the definition of cowardice. We all cross that line from time to time on the Boneyard, but keeping it in mind is important.

This place isn't your sounding board. That's what a diary is for.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Maybe we're from a different generation then, but imo anything online that isn't illegal is fair game. Mods/Admins have the right to remove whatever they please but let's be honest - it's not my fault or your fault that someone connected to the program reads a post here.

Holding standards of discourse transcends generational barriers. You, individually, simply don't value the application of standards.

 

[JMick]

If something you say online even tangentially affects the team, you have to actually think about it, and not post gibberish.

In "my generation" if you wouldn't say something to someone's face, you shouldn't say it. That's pretty much the definition of cowardice. We all cross that line from time to time on the Boneyard, but keeping it in mind is important.

This place isn't your sounding board. That's what a diary is for.

Eh that's what the internet is. Whether you're right or wrong, that's reality.

 

[Lefty2one]

Was at the game today. While Ollie has his issues on the sideline it was very apparent that the collective talent in the program isn't close to what it use to be. Not that we didn't already know that but it was really eye-opening to see it first hand. It looked like two evenly matched teams out there.

Again, not to excuse KO - better coaching would have given us a few more wins at the moment - but outside of Adams we don't have difference makers, we don't have guys who are either more athletic, more skilled or tougher than the opposition anymore. No one on the current roster has a prayer at making an NBA roster besides Adams (maybe Hamilton given that his skill set will fit in perfectly with today's NBA). Even as a raw freshman PG Adams stands out like crazy in-person. He makes his mistakes and will shoot a poor % as all frosh PG do but he can do things that no one else can do on this team. He's also the only PG on the roster, Gibbs sure as hell isn't a playmaker. Having one PG is going to make things rough on any college team.

Every single player on the team besides Miller is wildly inconsistent. Gibbs was a complete non-factor today. Same with Purvis - just like Gibbs it's an exercise in futility any time he puts the ball on the floor. If their shot is off then they'll be providing a lot of empty minutes - though at least Purvis can defend. Omar looked like he was in a rush and out of control every time he touched the ball in his limited minutes. Brimah's rim protection can be great but then he has days like this where he goes for too many unblockable shots and we get hurt on the boards.

Also, in-person it was very clear that the chemistry on this team is really lacking. This team hasn't gelled and it's plain as day. Bickering, confusion, finger-pointing, etc. I don't know if it made it on TV but in the 2nd half after Hamilton tried to throw that long pass up-court to Gibbs and it got picked off, Gibbs threw a tantrum and didn't get back on D. Not what you want from your 5th (6th?) year senior.

 

[JMick]

Holding standards of discourse transcends generational barriers. You, individually, simply don't value the application of standards.

Not sure why, once again, I'm being personally attacked on "values" or "morals" for a personal opinion. I might be a D#$K sometimes in the chat but never on the boards

 

[tzznandrew]

Eh that's what the internet is. Whether you're right or wrong, that's reality.

Well, it is or it isn't, right, since each site gets its own rules and standards.

And, as a longstanding member and (somehow) a moderator, I can say we have them. So, not to be a dck, but here it isn't really the internet.

Again, if you want to just blow off steam without the thought of consequences, buy a diary. We let a lot go, but we won't let it all go.

 

[JMick]

Well, it is or it isn't, right, since each site gets its own rules and standards.

And, as a longstanding member and (somehow) a moderator, I can say we have them. So, not to be a dck, but here it isn't really the internet.

Again, if you want to just blow off steam without the thought of consequences, buy a diary. We let a lot go, but we won't let it all go.

So once again, you're kind of attacking me. I don't think I've said anything "damaging" or out of the realm of reality - but for some reason you're latching onto my posts in particular. I just don't get it. Go see me on the football board if you want to see me posting about rainbows.

 

[Leebo]

So once again, you're kind of attacking me. I don't think I've said anything "damaging" or out of the realm of reality - but for some reason you're latching onto my posts in particular. I just don't get it. Go see me on the football board if you want to see me posting about rainbows.

You were defending the other posts, not just your own, presumably, when you laid your cards down on how the board should be run.

 

[JMick]

You were defending the other posts, not just your own, presumably, when you laid your cards down on how the board should be run.

Wow talk about taking what I said out of context. I didn't say every post here should stay. I said that it's a slippery slope to start removing anything negative about the program. I bleed blue as much as anyone else here - 4 years at UConn, huge sports fan, lived in CT all my life, etc. You played a straw man and you can stick to it as much as you'd like but it's not the truth.

 

[Leebo]

Wow talk about taking what I said out of context. I didn't say every post here should stay. I said that it's a slippery slope to start removing anything negative about the program. I bleed blue as much as anyone else here - 4 years at UConn, huge sports fan, lived in CT all my life, etc. You played a straw man and you can stick to it as much as you'd like but it's not the truth.

All I said was that when you made your comment, you were defending more than your own posts, which is why his posts weren't "singling" your posts out.

 

[tzznandrew]

@JMick It's not so much you, as the line of thought. It's not a slippery slope to say that this isn't a place where anything goes.

Also, nothing says you can't be negative. I hate that canard that when people are called out for ridiculousness, everyone else wears rose glasses.

To be clear, these two seasons have not been great. But this season, much to the surprise of some posters, isn't done yet.

KO can and needs to get better at a number of things. The program is in a transition that hasn't been what we'd want, but is better than most programs have experienced. We went from a Top 5 all time coach to a guy who never coached a game in his life. And the program was banned from the NCAAs while also being unable to recruit at full strength. Taking over for JC is easy. It's like riding a bike. Except the bike is on fire and you're on fire and everything is on fire and you're in hell.

And in the process, have never won fewer than 20 games while also winning a Championship. Find me another program that transitioned from an all time great that well.

 

[JMick]

All I said was that when you made your comment, you were defending more than your own posts, which is why his posts weren't "singling" your posts out.

Once again, completely taking what I said out of context.

 

[JMick]

@JMick

And in the process, have never won fewer than 20 games while also winning a Championship. Find me another program that transitioned from an all time great that well.

Like I said earlier, winning 20 games in the AAC is nothing special. If we were in the old Big East the last two years or a P5 conference we wouldn't have 4 years of 20 wins.

 

[Leebo]

Once again, completely taking what I said out of context.

Rock expressed the idea that this thread is "over his threshold" for what we should have on the board. You disagreed with "this" (presumably, the idea of having a threshold at all?)

If you would simply draw the line in a different place rather than having no line, maybe you just didn't explain your position well.

 

[JMick]

Rock expressed the idea that this thread is "over his threshold" for what we should have on the board. You disagreed with "this" (presumably, the idea of having a threshold at all?)

If you would simply draw the line in a different place rather than having no line, maybe you just didn't explain your position well.

Did I make a post saying that this exact thread was ok? I was making a point that banning discourse is foolish.

 

[tzznandrew]

Like I said earlier, winning 20 games in the AAC is nothing special. If we were in the old Big East the last two years or a P5 conference we wouldn't have 4 years of 20 wins.

I'm not sure that's true. Look at that 2013 team again and tell me how it is more impressive than the last two UConn teams. And that was in the Big East in a year when the Big East won the NC.

 

[tzznandrew]

I was making a point that banning discourse is foolish.

And that's what @Leebo and I are disagreeing with, and I think have clearly disagreed with from the beginning, and what those even higher up than me agree with.

You're not a mod, you don't see the graveyard of posts that I do. It's not as big as it might be, but after a win it's there.

 

[JMick]

I'm not sure that's true. Look at that 2013 team again and tell me how it is more impressive than the last two UConn teams. And that was in the Big East in a year when the Big East won the NC.

The 2013 team would win the AAC this year.

 

[tzznandrew]

The 2013 team would win the AAC this year.

Wait, a team that gave 15 minutes per game to RJ Evans and 14 minutes per game to Enosch Wolf would win this league? Junior Bazz was pretty good, but

You are sadly mistaken, sir. You're upset that this team got swept by Temple and Cincy, but that team got swept by 12-19 USF.

 

[JMick]

Wait, a team that gave 15 minutes per game to RJ Evans and 14 minutes per game to Enosch Wolf would win this league?

You are sadly mistaken, sir.

Respectfully disagree. I think that team wins the AAC this year, even if by a small margin.

 

[tzznandrew]

Respectfully disagree. I think that team wins the AAC this year, even if by a small margin.

Fair enough.

I think you are overestimating a team that went to 2OT with Quinipiac and underestimating the talent of SMU, Cincy, and a couple of other teams.

I wonder if other people agree? I'd certainly suggest the 2013 team was more fun to watch in the abstract--we had no expectations for them and so every win was joyous. But I think the 2016 team is better than them, even though I would never ever bet on this team if it were a close game near the end.

 

[JMick]

Fair enough.

I think you are overestimating a team that went to 2OT with Quinipiac and underestimating the talent of SMU, Cincy, and a couple of other teams.

I wonder if other people agree? I'd certainly suggest the 2013 team was more fun to watch in the abstract--we had no expectations for them and so every win was joyous. But I think the 2016 team is better than them, even though I would never ever bet on this team if it were a close game near the end.

I personally don't think Cincy, SMU, Temple, Houston, or Tulsa are anything special - at this point the committee and people putting brackets together don't, either. Go look at SMU's wins - the fact they're a top 25 team is kind of laughable. Their best win is Colorado. It's good for us with the win against them, but I personally don't think the 2013 team would have an issue beating them.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Not sure why, once again, I'm being personally attacked on "values" or "morals" for a personal opinion. I might be a D#$K sometimes in the chat but never on the boards

Not an attack at all, and I am not touching morals at all. I'm simply coming to rational, logical conclusions based on what you have said. I argue for the curtailing of redundant and cringe-worthy gibberish on this website by applying some standard of quality to the due criticism of this year's team. I value an application of standards regarding the dialogue that takes place here.

You do not, and to you, who stands in opposition to me, all legal utterances are fair game, and family members and team members can just close their eyes and plug their ears if they don't like it "it's not my fault or your fault that someone connected to the program reads a post here". I don't know how one could conclude in any way other than determining that you do not value the idea of placing a standard on our conduct here (beyond sheer legality).

Simply a difference in values. I'd appreciate you not trying to further turn this in to some victimhood claiming. You're putting a slippery slope in where there is none; nobody is, as you construct a strawman to create a two-pronged fallacious argument, labeling all criticism as gibberish. Any rational person (I believe our mods are as such) can see the difference between civil, non-redundant, constructive criticism, and the gibberish from idiots with a few dozen posts who come out of the woodwork after every loss. And they have also demonstrated that they can see when, as unfortunately has happened with 100+ page recruiting threads, once civil conversations can quickly turn in to burning train wrecks by a few of our less-desirable members and ought to be shut down.

 

[80shusky]

You want to hang your hat on three 20 win seasons? I went back and counted actually 20 cupcake games they scheduled (as teams usually do) over the past three seasons. They won 19 of them (loss to Yale).

And I've seen NOTHING out of Ollie to suggest he's got what it takes to coach a team he's built and compete at an elite level.

Remember: no Napier, no National Championship. That was Calhoun's team, and frankly, JC's fingerprints were all over it.

"Idiot".

#HotTake, brah!

I apologize for calling you an idiot. That is not my usual character and I shouldn't have done that. That said, I disagree with your premise. It takes players to win and win consistently. It takes recruiting to get the players to win and win consistently. How many major programs can you name that retired a long time hall of fame coach and continued with the same level of success? There aren't many. I think maybe people have forgotten that KO was not a head coach at any level prior to taking this job. Think hard on this, who would you (meaning anyone not you in particular) advocate replacing him with?
In 2012 he coached a team who had no possibility of making the postseason to 20 wins. The only legitimate pro prospect on that team was Daniels and I believe he is still languishing in the D league. In 2013 he won the national championship with almost the same team and did so by beating Jay Wright, Billy Donovan, Tom Izzo and Calipari to name a few. His legitimate pro was still Daniels and Napier who is barely hanging on to a NBA job. It takes players to win, and we just don't have enough players this year. His signing of Gibbs and Miller are the only reason we are even remotely relevant this year. Otherwise this post wouldn't exist because we would be in a rebuilding mode and probably pretty bad.
KO is only starting his head coaching career and only starting to build his own program. Next year will really be his first I think with his own troops. Do you think Golden State won the NBA championship last year because of Steve Kerr? Or the Miami Heat because of Spoelstra? Or Boston because of Doc Rivers? No, they won because they had really good or the best players.
We are incredibly spoiled fans because of how good our teams have been in the last 25 years. When I first went to UConn Cliff Robinson was probably our best player and we weren't ever sniffing the level we are at now. By the time I graduated we had won the Big East Championship, Tate made "The Shot" and our fortunes had changed. In under four years. It remains to be seen whether KO can build and coach a team to consistent trips to the NCAA tournament but I think we are very lucky to have him and can't think of another coach I would rather have. He has warts, but they all do. But, he can only win with great players. So, don't run off the dock.

 

[mauconnfan]

Well, there can be. I won't get into the debate about this thread, but players, parents, coaches, recruits, etc. read this site. So this isn't going into the ether. Hell, @mauconnfan got called out by Calhoun (not by name) for the criticism he gave Taliek. So while the mods here let a lot go, rock is right in that it can't just be an anonymous venting board.

C'mon tzz I don't believe it was solely me JC was looking at ... there were a few who also were open about their thoughts on Taliek.

 

[tzznandrew]

C'mon tzz I don't believe it was solely me JC was looking at ... there were a few who also were open about their thoughts on Taliek.

Just giving you a hard time.

 

[mauconnfan]

You want to hang your hat on three 20 win seasons? I went back and counted actually 20 cupcake games they scheduled (as teams usually do) over the past three seasons. They won 19 of them (loss to Yale).

And I've seen NOTHING out of Ollie to suggest he's got what it takes to coach a team he's built and compete at an elite level.

Remember: no Napier, no National Championship. That was Calhoun's team, and frankly, JC's fingerprints were all over it.

"Idiot".

#HotTake, brah!

Since you're mentioning people lets try these names: Deandre Daniels, Niels Giffey, Ryan Boatright.

What did Deandre do under JC? How much better did Niels and Boat play that year under KO's tutelage than JC's? And throw in Lasaan Kromah and how he fit the winning puzzle? Listen I love JC, he is the man, but that wasn't "his team" it was KO's. JC had a hand in it but KO waved the wand.