Ohtani, this dude is unreal

[donyell34]

Ohtani is special, trying to poke some holes because we are Yankee fans who love Judge is nonsense. Both are having spectacular, awesome season to be enjoyed.

 

[superjohn]

Ohtani is special, trying to poke some holes because we are Yankee fans who love Judge is nonsense. Both are having spectacular, awesome season to be enjoyed.

I'm a Yankee fan. Judge is incredible and would be the best baseball player during most of the modern history of baseball outside the Bonds years. Ohtani is the best baseball player I've ever seen. If you tried to describe to someone in the past how there will be an awesome pitcher in the future who is going to blow past 50 home runs and 50 steals in a single season nobody would believe you.

 

[navery12]

Then why are sb up 40%. Not 10 or 20…40!

Pitchers can't hold runners on and analytics have changed where teams realize it's advantageous to run. It's up 40% to the past few years, but only slightly up to the 80s and 90s numbers

 

[superjohn]

Didn’t know that. I looked back 10 years and saw 1k less per year on avg

From 1976-2000 there was basically always over 3,000 steals and you have to factor in there was less teams. 24 teams in those early years and then 26.

 

[Dove]

Nah, I think you have this right. He's amazing.

He's okay, I guess.

 

[storrsroars]

DH get published because they don't take the field for WAR, which is ridiculous.

Ask Dodgers GM if they would trade Ohtani for Judge or Lundor straight up, you already know the answer. Ask Dodgers GM if he would trade Ohtani for Judge and Lundor, the answer would still be a big fat no. Dodgers would ask for other players thrown in the deal.

If Ohtani played outfield, I have no doubt he would be a better outfielder than Judge. As far as combination of power, speed, and arm strength, there is no comparison.

Typically DHs get docked -11 dWAR on Fangraphs. So you have a point regarding the NL.

You might be perfectly right regarding teams choosing Ohtani over the field if they had the opportunity to get him. But nobody is even close to Witt's value to the Royals this year, so I'll stick with my argument for the AL.

 

[navery12]

Typically DHs get docked -11 dWAR on Fangraphs. So you have a point regarding the NL.

You might be perfectly right regarding teams choosing Ohtani over the field if they had the opportunity to get him. But nobody is even close to Witt's value to the Royals this year, so I'll stick with my argument for the AL.

Except as it turns out someone is close to as valuable as Witt, and is actually slightly more valuable. And it's Aaron Judge

 

[storrsroars]

Except as it turns out someone is close to as valuable as Witt, and is actually slightly more valuable. And it's Aaron Judge

My metric for MVP, as stated clearly above, is what % of team WAR does that player represent. Witt is 46% of KC's offensive WAR. Judge is nowhere near that.

What's your metric? Just WAR? So you're making this basically a dollar metric as opposed to what the player's team would do without him.

Then create an award for highest WAR. You're never gonna convince me Judge was more valuable to the Yankees this year than Witt was to KC.

Try to stop being a homer.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

While Bobby Witt, Aaron Judge, and Lidor are all having exceptional seasons, none of them can match the sheer dominance and versatility of Shohei Ohtani. Even without his pitching contributions this year, Ohtani's impact on Major League Baseball is unparalleled. No general manager would be foolish enough to trade any of these three players for Ohtani straight up, unless a significant package of additional talent is included.

I know many here are Yankees and Mets fans, it's impossible to deny that Shohei Ohtani is a once-in-a-generation athlete across all sports. His ability to excel at both hitting and pitching at the highest level places him in a league of his own, making any comparison simply inadequate. He is doing things that are historical, and we are just watching living history.

 

[superjohn]

What?!

I assumed it was a drunk post.

 

[The Yakk]

They'll both win MVP but Judge is having a better season and it's not even really that close

Adjusted for ballpark, it's a lot closer than Stankee fans think.

Ohtani plays half his games in a hitter's nightmare, Judge can hit pop up HR's to right field.

Both deserve MVP, obviously. There's a good argument Ohtani's season is better, at least for neutral observers.

 

[storrsroars]

I assumed it was a drunk post.

My hours for drunk posts are generally 7-9pm.

 

[Spaceman213J]

The funny thing is.that if Ohtani was pitching, he doesn't have a 50/50 season. He would be rested more often. We get to witness this miraculous season because of the injury. What would be more impressive; this season from the plate or a 40/40 season with a Cy Young award. He is talented to do the later in the next couple of seasons.

Still, I'll root for the Dodgers to lose in the first round. It's nothing against Ohtani. I think Betts, Freeman and Ohtani are likeable personalities. It's just the spending by some of the teams is out of hand. I'd like to see a system in place where if you draft a guy, develop him and he becomes a big part of your organization, their contract doesn't count as much towards the cap as bringing in an outside guy. I also think even if money is deferred, the total value of the contract should be split over the length of the playing contract.

 

[navery12]

My metric for MVP, as stated clearly above, is what % of team WAR does that player represent. Witt is 46% of KC's offensive WAR. Judge is nowhere near that.

What's your metric? Just WAR? So you're making this basically a dollar metric as opposed to what the player's team would do without him.

Then create an award for highest WAR. You're never gonna convince me Judge was more valuable to the Yankees this year than Witt was to KC.

Try to stop being a homer.

You nailed it, me, the Mets fan, is a homer by saying Aaron Judge is the MVP

 

[storrsroars]

You nailed it, me, the Mets fan, is a homer by saying Aaron Judge is the MVP

New Yawkers gonna New Yawk.

If you want to simply go by WAR, there's an "Outstanding Player" award that exists.

Simple question - Is Witt more important to KC's success this season than Judge is to NYY's, or not?

 

[navery12]

New Yawkers gonna New Yawk.

If you want to simply go by WAR, there's an "Outstanding Player" award that exists.

Simple question - Is Witt more important to KC's success this season than Judge is to NYY's, or not?

No. They're both incredibly important and neither team is a playoff team without Judge and Witt Jr's seasons. The Yankees lineup is awful and Judge has carried them all year

 

[CONN78SEJ]

Ohtani, this dude is unreal. He was one of the top pitchers and top power hitters in baseball, can't pitch this year. Every other pitcher who has elbow surgery you don't see him until the next season. He already did stuff we haven't seen since Ruth and then without being able to pitch this year he becomes the first player ever in MLB history to go for 50/50. Still 10 games left and he goes 6 for 6 with 17 total bases, 3 homeruns, 2 steals, and is thrown out at third to just miss hitting for the cycle. That's the best hitting game I've ever seen and he did it in his 50/50 game. Dude, is a cheat code. He's going to win his third MVP in six MLB seasons he actually played enough to do it. His other season he played 44 games. I never want to be accused of being a creature of the moment but this is the best baseball player we've ever seen.

My buddy was asking me last night, has anyone ever lived up to the hype like this and way exceeded it? All I could come up with was Lebron but i'm not sure it's the same. Some people like Bobby Knight knew what Jordan was but Sam Bowie was picked over him, there wasn't this kind of hype. Brady, nobody knew about.

Comparing him to Ruth is a joke. Let me know when Ohtani goes 18-5 pitching against the Yankees lifetime, hits 714 HR’s, has 2214 RBI’s, and finishes his career with a 342 lifetime batting average, during a time when the pitchers mound was 5 inches higher than it is today and the ball was much less lively.

 

[uconnfan68]

He’s not getting 60/60. There’s only 8 games left.

Too bad. He’s going to get fewer chances if he’s pitching again.

 

[John]

My buddy was asking me last night, has anyone ever lived up to the hype like this and way exceeded it? All I could come up with was Lebron but i'm not sure it's the same. Some people like Bobby Knight knew what Jordan was but Sam Bowie was picked over him, there wasn't this kind of hype. Brady, nobody knew about.

Gretzky

 

[storrsroars]

Gretzky

I think a few top draft picks in hockey have lived up to the hype. McGregor, Crosby, Lemieux in addition to Gretzky over past 50 years. Might be others I'm not thinking of.

 

[August_West]

Gretzky

Great call. And true.

 

[knicksin7]

I think it's great that we are talking about him. I was listening to Russillo yesterday, and it was hilarious. He basically said "we don't pay attention to Ohtani not because of baseball's decline, but rather due to the fast information cycle." He then proceeds to spend ten minutes talking about Ben Simmon's lastest workout video. The focus on the NFL and NBA over MLB is what it is, but as a kid growing up loving the Yankees in the 1990s, it's a bit sad. I am also a huge Knicks fan, and giants guy, but I loved Yankees. $5 bleacher tickets, loved that team when we were terrible, Pat Kelly, Roberto Kelly, Steve Sax, Kevin Maas, Sanderson, Pascual Perez, all those guys. And the fact that Ohtani is doing what he's doing, and we are focused on how maybe Jamal Murray isn't focused on the upcoming season. Sad

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Ohtani, this dude is unreal. He was one of the top pitchers and top power hitters in baseball, can't pitch this year. Every other pitcher who has elbow surgery you don't see him until the next season. He already did stuff we haven't seen since Ruth and then without being able to pitch this year he becomes the first player ever in MLB history to go for 50/50. Still 10 games left and he goes 6 for 6 with 17 total bases, 3 homeruns, 2 steals, and is thrown out at third to just miss hitting for the cycle. That's the best hitting game I've ever seen and he did it in his 50/50 game. Dude, is a cheat code. He's going to win his third MVP in six MLB seasons he actually played enough to do it. His other season he played 44 games. I never want to be accused of being a creature of the moment but this is the best baseball player we've ever seen.

My buddy was asking me last night, has anyone ever lived up to the hype like this and way exceeded it? All I could come up with was Lebron but i'm not sure it's the same. Some people like Bobby Knight knew what Jordan was but Sam Bowie was picked over him, there wasn't this kind of hype. Brady, nobody knew about.

We can amicably disagree about LeBron’s standing all time, but his hype and subsequent deliverance certainly surpassed Ohtani IMO. Baseball GOAT is weird though, people thought Trout was the GOAT like 8 seasons in. The analytics nerds seem to run the show way more than any other sport.

 

[Travelman6]

He’s not getting 60/60. There’s only 8 games left.

55/55 still in play

 

[CONN78SEJ]

My buddy was asking me last night, has anyone ever lived up to the hype like this and way exceeded it? All I could come up with was Lebron but i'm not sure it's the same. Some people like Bobby Knight knew what Jordan was but Sam Bowie was picked over him, there wasn't this kind of hype. Brady, nobody knew about.

Nicklaus……and no one else in any sport is even close, with the possible exception of Serena Williams, but it’s debatable.

“At the 1960 U.S. Open, twenty-year-old Nicklaus shot a two-under-par 282, finishing in second place two strokes behind winner Arnold Palmer. This score remained the lowest ever by an amateur in the U.S. Open, until Viktor Hovland beat the record in 2019. Nicklaus played the final 36 holes with Ben Hogan, who later remarked that he had just played 36 holes with a kid who should have won by 10 shots. During the final 36 holes, Nicklaus was two-under-par; he had shot every round of the tournament at or below par and was the only entrant to do so. Nicklaus had led by two shots with six holes to play.”

……Jacks records will never be broken and the amazing thing is his record as a loser. He had 19 2nd place finishes, with 5 of those finishes being by 1stroke or in a playoff.

As a young amateur Nicklaus finished inside the top ten at 3 major championships, and finished 2nd twice.

At the 1965 Masters he played the front nine in 12 under par for the week.