Ohio st recap

[paisan]

Agree ...lack of rebounding, interior defense, and guard penetration were alarming. Camarra and Ono’s lack of performance was really a disappointment. Ohio state is not a very good team, missed a boatload of bunnies and turned the ball over a lot.

 

[Bama fan]

Someone who watched the Ohio State-South Florida game described both teams as "bad D-2 teams."

Well, since UConn gave up more points to OSU in Storrs than USF did in Columbus, does that mean UConn's defense is at a bad D-3 level?

No

 

[Vowelguy]

top recruits wanted no part of tOSU.

Yeah, no one, like #23 Steph Mavunga, #4 Linnae Harper, #16 Sierra Calhoun, #10 Tori McCoy, #24 Kiara Lewis, #31 Jensen Caretti

 

[oldude]

Yeah, no one, like #23 Steph Mavunga, #4 Linnae Harper, #16 Sierra Calhoun, #10 Tori McCoy, #24 Kiara Lewis, #31 Jensen Caretti

How many of those recruits showed up in the last few years when it was clear that McGuff had basically turned the team over to Mitchell? The cupboard is bare in Columbus, and it’s not going to get much better next season when the 5 hired guns McGuff brought in as RS Seniors all move on.

 

[Vowelguy]

How many of those recruits showed up in the last few years when it was clear that McGuff had basically turned the team over to Mitchell? The cupboard is bare in Columbus, and it’s not going to get much better next season when the 5 hired guns McGuff brought in as RS Seniors all move on.

I'm not your stat boy; do your own research. And perhaps before you say something not true.

 

[oldude]

I'm not your stat boy; do your own research. And perhaps before you say something not true.

OK, here's the data for tOSU recruits from Hoopgurlz top 100 over the past 4 years:

• 2015 - 0 top 100 recruits
• 2016 - McCoy (16), Lewis (24) & Caretti (31) - Only Caretti is still a Buckeye
• 2017 - 0 top 100 recruits
• 2018 - Crooms (62)

I stated that the situation at tOSU with Mitchell and her father affected both recruits as well as existing players (transfers), and I continue to stand by that assessment.

If you're going to present alternative facts, I suggest you present relevant ones.

 

[Vowelguy]

Mavunga, Harper, and Calhoun all transferred in AFTER Mitchell was there, so they weren't scared off by her.
The 2016 recruits all signed AFTER Mitchell was there, so they weren't scared off by her.
Potential 2017 & 2018 recruits all would've started AFTER Mitchell left, so they weren't scared off by her.

No, perhaps the problem was/is McGuff and his failure to do more with his ample talent.

The notion that players avoided Ohio St _because_ of Mitchell is not supported by any facts.

 

[Ozimoto]

From reading all the replies it sounds like this year is going to be just like last year and the year before that...

As usual, sloppy play in games that start at noon...

Didn't seem to take care of the ball all that well at times.

Won by 32 points.

 

[CBus13]

OK, here's the data for tOSU recruits from Hoopgurlz top 100 over the past 4 years:

• 2015 - 0 top 100 recruits
• 2016 - McCoy (16), Lewis (24) & Caretti (31) - Only Caretti is still a Buckeye
• 2017 - 0 top 100 recruits
• 2018 - Crooms (62)

I stated that the situation at tOSU with Mitchell and her father affected both recruits as well as existing players (transfers), and I continue to stand by that assessment.

If you're going to present alternative facts, I suggest you present relevant ones.

Not that it changes much, but 2015 they recruited Kaylan Pugh who did show up but ended up transferring to Georgia Tech, but I don't see her on their roster anymore either. I also can't imagine Kelsey Mitchell's appearance on the OSU team would have that much affect on the 2015 class when most of those players were committed in the early signing period to teams. But this Ohio State team also had 6 freshmen, two highly regarded transfers (Shayla Cooper and Kianna Holland [who sadly never got back to her old form after a knee injury]) and two juniors (Craft and Alston) who had been starters for a year already and no seniors graduating. So there just wasn't much in terms of roster space available for recruits.

The 2015-2016 OSU roster had 15 players on it. Only two were finishing up their playing eligibility. Until Lisa Blair transferred to Kansas (which that may have been a suggestion) to make room for the 2016 class and then Pugh transferred mid-season. Going into the 2016-2017 season, OSU had roster at 14 players, and only one player, Cooper, expected to finish their playing career. I believe this is also the season the Joy Cheek moved to Vanderbilt. So, any connections Cheek had made with recruits needed to be re-connected with a new Assistant Coach or team. Ohio State was probably also being more critical about who to recruit since roster space was limited, but then Theresa Ekhelar, Kiara Lewis, and Tori McCoy transferred and Kianna Holland medically retired from play. So, Ohio State went from expecting to lose one player to losing 5.

But another thing is the senior class that just left had 5 players, who saw major minutes and then a junior who started. So that may have deterred players as well from coming in the 2017 year. But recruits may have also been paying attention to the lack of development of that class during their time at Ohio State. But I also think McGuff isn't a super personable coach. From local players I know around Columbus, a lot of them actually enjoyed Coach Mitchell as a person and recruiter more than McGuff. So, while I think the playing style "implemented" by Coach McGuff probably didn't appeal to front court players, it seemed like those who played with Kelsey enjoyed playing with her. They were all good friends off the court. I also think that Joy Cheek was the primary recruiter in the beginning and helped get the players (minus Mitchell) on board with being a Buckeye and when she left...they struggled even more so.

 

[oldude]

Mavunga, Harper, and Calhoun all transferred in AFTER Mitchell was there, so they weren't scared off by her.
The 2016 recruits all signed AFTER Mitchell was there, so they weren't scared off by her.
Potential 2017 & 2018 recruits all would've started AFTER Mitchell left, so they weren't scared off by her.

No, perhaps the problem was/is McGuff and his failure to do more with his ample talent.

The notion that players avoided Ohio St _because_ of Mitchell is not supported by any facts.

I agree that McGuff has done a poor job with talented players. But all of the transfers you mention, as well as the 2016 recruits all signed up to come to tOSU before Mitchell had played a single game during her sophomore year.

We can disagree on this, but the die wasn't cast yet imo. Mitchell was considered a freshman phenom. McGuff was building a powerhouse around her. Once all that talent got to Columbus, the situation was much different. The next two years, McGuff brought in one player, Janai Crooms, ranked 62nd in her class.

I don't know if you watched tOSU's 2nd round game vs Central MI last year in Columbus. I did, and what I saw was C MI blow open a close game as the Buckeyes quit in the 2nd half. To her credit, Mitchell played hard the whole game, but her teammates threw in the towel. There are several ways to interpret that performance, but it seemed obvious to me that tOSU was not a team, but a collection of individuals who were ready for the season to be over.

 

[Vowelguy]

So let me get this straight: players were scared off going to Ohio St because of Mitchell. But not after seeing her 1 year, only those who saw her for 2 years. lol

 

[CBus13]

I agree that McGuff has done a poor job with talented players. But all of the transfers you mention, as well as the 2016 recruits all signed up to come to tOSU before Mitchell had played a single game during her sophomore year.

We can disagree on this, but the die wasn't cast yet imo. Mitchell was considered a freshman phenom. McGuff was building a powerhouse around her. Once all that talent got to Columbus, the situation was much different. The next two years, McGuff brought in one player, Janai Crooms, ranked 62nd in her class.

I don't know if you watched tOSU's 2nd round game vs Central MI last year in Columbus. I did, and what I saw was C MI blow open a close game as the Buckeyes quit in the 2nd half. To her credit, Mitchell played hard the whole game, but her teammates threw in the towel. There are several ways to interpret that performance, but it seemed obvious to me that tOSU was not a team, but a collection of individuals who were ready for the season to be over.

In regards to the C Mi game, I was in attendance and to say all the players gave up is incorrect. Linnae Harper still played hard and determined and was working to encourage her teammates and Mavunga finished with 15 rebounds and 16 points, scoring zero in the second quarter. McGuff just had no defensive answers for C. Michigan's 3 point scoring efficiency, which the 14 made was their season high. Ohio State scored more points in the 3rd quarter than they did in the entire first half and their fourth quarter was their highest scoring quarter of the game, with 32.

I think C. Michigan's defense made the Ohio State offense uncomfortable in the second quarter and it rattled them, but by then they were too far down and had no defensive plan to get them back in the game after halftime. C. Michigan was also 25-27 from the FT line while OSU was 9-14 from the FT. Mitchell only got to the line once, which is where she makes most of her points. So C. Mi, studied and followed scouting report well. If anything, I think players were frustrated with the way things were going, but weren't ready for their seasons (and some careers) to be over.

 

[HopJim]

Just got a chance to see the replay. What really pops out is our difficulties rebounding. If I am ONO, I figure out how to get on the floor. The opportunities are glaring and we need her to have some impact

I got to admit, I really like seeing Kyla play. If only she had some real athleticism (or a few more inches) but she is always in position. Geno desperately wants to give her more playing time.

Curious about your comments since they seem to conflict. I agree in part - ONO needs playing time and I love Kyla's commitment to play to best of her ability. Unfortunately, one will likely not happen unless the other sits more. Have to disagree on Kyla always being in position. At times her lack of athleticism allows bigger or faster players to make plays Kyla cant even get to. ONO looked awkward at times, but with her height and wingspan likely has at least a 6 inch advantage in reach. That can make up for a lot of inexperience.

 

[HopJim]

OK, here's the data for tOSU recruits from Hoopgurlz top 100 over the past 4 years:

• 2015 - 0 top 100 recruits
• 2016 - McCoy (16), Lewis (24) & Caretti (31) - Only Caretti is still a Buckeye
• 2017 - 0 top 100 recruits
• 2018 - Crooms (62)

I stated that the situation at tOSU with Mitchell and her father affected both recruits as well as existing players (transfers), and I continue to stand by that assessment.

If you're going to present alternative facts, I suggest you present relevant ones.

Yikes in terms of Ohio's immediate future.

 

[oldude]

So let me get this straight: players were scared off going to Ohio St because of Mitchell. But not after seeing her 1 year, only those who saw her for 2 years. lol

I never suggested they were scared off, but you are really missing my point. The environment that McGuff allowed to exist at tOSU didn't fully take hold Mitchell's first year. It's not that players were afraid of Mitchell. It was simply that players did not want to play with her once they understood the system, or lack thereof, that McGuff was running.

The biggest problems occurred during the past two years. When top recruits could have reasonably anticipated PT by their sophomore or freshmen years, only 1 top 100 recruit signed a NLI with tOSU. Certainly in 2018, with all of the seniors graduating from tOSU, you would have expected a strong recruiting class. tOSU got one top 100 recruit and 5 RS senior transfers.

Unless he has an assistant coaching gig to offer a recruit's parent, maybe McGuff just isn't that good a recruiter.

 

[HopJim]

Agree ...lack of rebounding, interior defense, and guard penetration were alarming. Camarra and Ono’s lack of performance was really a disappointment. Ohio state is not a very good team, missed a boatload of bunnies and turned the ball over a lot.

Saw multiple comments regarding Camera's play. While she wasn't in long enough to draw much of a conclusion, I was happy to see several plays where guards tried to use their quickness to drive and she had enough foot speed to stop their progress. In the few cases she got the opportunity to box out, no one was able to get to basket. I'd rate her performance as "incomplete" but saw some areas where UConn needs help to build on.

 

[oldude]

In regards to the C Mi game, I was in attendance and to say all the players gave up is incorrect. Linnae Harper still played hard and determined and was working to encourage her teammates and Mavunga finished with 15 rebounds and 16 points, scoring zero in the second quarter. McGuff just had no defensive answers for C. Michigan's 3 point scoring efficiency, which the 14 made was their season high. Ohio State scored more points in the 3rd quarter than they did in the entire first half and their fourth quarter was their highest scoring quarter of the game, with 32.

I think C. Michigan's defense made the Ohio State offense uncomfortable in the second quarter and it rattled them, but by then they were too far down and had no defensive plan to get them back in the game after halftime. C. Michigan was also 25-27 from the FT line while OSU was 9-14 from the FT. Mitchell only got to the line once, which is where she makes most of her points. So C. Mi, studied and followed scouting report well. If anything, I think players were frustrated with the way things were going, but weren't ready for their seasons (and some careers) to be over.

I appreciate your comments. Of course I wasn't at the game. Watching it at home, I did not see a very strong defensive effort by the Buckeyes. Now that might not be saying much, because MCGuff's teams at tOSU have been characterized by inconsistent defense. But I would have thought that facing a determined C MI team at home in Columbus, in the NCAA tournament, tOSU would have played much harder, or maybe just a little smarter.

 

[hugefan]

Anyone else find it funny Geno put Katie Lou back in halfway through the 4th quarter to get her some extra stats? Her stat line was very average before he got her those extra 5 points before pulling her again.

LMAO I think it was UCMiami who pointed it out that she replaced Crystal as the PG until they got into his comfort garbage time. You must be so disappointed that she hit 2 shots. But you must also think that leading in every category is average. True colors.

 

[eebmg]

Curious about your comments since they seem to conflict. I agree in part - ONO needs playing time and I love Kyla's commitment to play to best of her ability. Unfortunately, one will likely not happen unless the other sits more. Have to disagree on Kyla always being in position. At times her lack of athleticism allows bigger or faster players to make plays Kyla cant even get to. ONO looked awkward at times, but with her height and wingspan likely has at least a 6 inch advantage in reach. That can make up for a lot of inexperience.

My comment about Kyla's defense is more geared to her help defense which I think is very good. Also, her man defense is improving imo I saw her cut off the sideline multiple times and she is moving her feet much better. Of course, she can get out muscled or blown by at times but keeping with the theme that her athletic gifts are limited, she can be pretty successful in certain(but not all) situations


I also understand the rebounding deficiencies which brings me to ONO who we need to give us valuable minutes
against teams with size and athleticism I thought she did some good things with rim protection but he needs alot of work.

I think both can coexist and get some good minutes in the early part of the season but I agree that if Kyla is our better option in the post over ONO deep into the season, we are in trouble.

 

[Bama fan]

Anyone else find it funny Geno put Katie Lou back in halfway through the 4th quarter to get her some extra stats? Her stat line was very average before he got her those extra 5 points before pulling her again.

I think she came back in because Danger was bleeding from a shot to the nose. Geno wanted a mature player out there to help manage the bench players. She did increase her points, but I doubt that was coach's reason for putting her back in the game. IMO.

 

[CBus13]

I appreciate your comments. Of course I wasn't at the game. Watching it at home, I did not see a very strong defensive effort by the Buckeyes. Now that might not be saying much, because MCGuff's teams at tOSU have been characterized by inconsistent defense. But I would have thought that facing a determined C MI team at home in Columbus, in the NCAA tournament, tOSU would have played much harder, or maybe just a little smarter.

I think your perspective on things from an at home viewer are probably correct from the lack of defensive intensity and what not for a team that is hosting an NCAA tourney game. It was more frustrating as a fan because the C. Mich. fans were loud and engaged the whole game. They almost drowned out an OSU fan presence that may have popped up. But I still think majority of that lose goes on McGuff's inability to teach strong team defense. He also lacks creativity in offensive schemes so it's easy for other team defenses to stifle things unless Mitchell or any other player just went "rogue" and created on their own. It was a very disheartening way to see those seniors go out, considering the high expectations and Columbus being the host for the Final Four, not that I expected that to be their final destination haha.

 

[oldude]

I think your perspective on things from an at home viewer are probably correct from the lack of defensive intensity and what not for a team that is hosting an NCAA tourney game. It was more frustrating as a fan because the C. Mich. fans were loud and engaged the whole game. They almost drowned out an OSU fan presence that may have popped up. But I still think majority of that lose goes on McGuff's inability to teach strong team defense. He also lacks creativity in offensive schemes so it's easy for other team defenses to stifle things unless Mitchell or any other player just went "rogue" and created on their own. It was a very disheartening way to see those seniors go out, considering the high expectations and Columbus being the host for the Final Four, not that I expected that to be their final destination haha.

Given your comments about McGuff's challenges coaching defense and offense, along with his recent difficulties bringing in top recruits, is it time for tOSU to make a change in your opinion?

 

[CBus13]

Given your comments about McGuff's challenges coaching defense and offense, along with his recent difficulties bringing in top recruits, is it time for tOSU to make a change in your opinion?

Everyone I talk to when at the games agrees it's his time to go. I, however, believe he will be safe this season regardless of results since expectations are so low. He got lucky last year that Maryland slipped up at the end of the season and gave OSU the Big Ten title. The guy who sits next to me, had printed out old newspaper articles about incoming recruits for NEXT season and started reading that during the Detroit Mercy game because "I can't drink like you can so this is how I can escape." There is a lot of unrest with the fans at OSU currently, no one has faith in him leading this program. I wish we could drop him and see if Megan Duffy from Miami would be interested in the gig. BUT they don't listen to me.

 

[oldude]

Everyone I talk to when at the games agrees it's his time to go. I, however, believe he will be safe this season regardless of results since expectations are so low. He got lucky last year that Maryland slipped up at the end of the season and gave OSU the Big Ten title. The guy who sits next to me, had printed out old newspaper articles about incoming recruits for NEXT season and started reading that during the Detroit Mercy game because "I can't drink like you can so this is how I can escape." There is a lot of unrest with the fans at OSU currently, no one has faith in him leading this program. I wish we could drop him and see if Megan Duffy from Miami would be interested in the gig. BUT they don't listen to me.

Hope springs eternal. McGuff's got 3 top 50 recruits committed, and if by some miracle he steals Aliyah Boston from UConn or ND, tOSU might just have the top recruiting class in the nation.

 

[CBus13]

Hope springs eternal. McGuff's got 3 top 50 recruits committed, and if by some miracle he steals Aliyah Boston from UConn or ND, tOSU might just have the top recruiting class in the nation.

Which...hopefully would just be a way to keep the cupboards full for a new coach on the horizon??? haha But I'd be surprised if she went to Ohio State. I was surprised to see them in her final four.