Off-season threads

[Ozzie Nelson]

The rule they just added in the WNBA is the defensive 3-second rule (I haven't seen details).

The 3-second rule is generally only called on (offensive) players who are posting up waiting for the ball, or loitering in the lane but have not yet received the ball. Technically they are supposed to either A) exit the lane completely or touch their feet (foot?) outside the paint within 3 seconds before going back in, or B) receive the ball and make a field goal attempt, or at least a move toward an attempt. If not, they are called for a violation. In practice, players will often be in the lane for 3 seconds or longer, then receive the ball, then attempt to pivot, dribble, pick the ball back up, etc. before shooting or driving to the hoop. Only a shot or a move toward the hoop is supposed to 'suspend' the 3 second count, not the other stuff.

In reality, 3 seconds is rarely called unless a post player is lingering for a noticably long time without receiving the ball. Very rarely, if a player is trying to get a shot off around the basket but is really being defended well so that they have to pump fake several times, or pivot several times, etc., they will get whistled for 3 seconds. That hardly ever happens. More often, like the person you heard said, when the player gets the ball and is at least doing something with it, the refs are very unlikely to call 3 seconds.

Loitering won't suffice...it has to be lollygagging to be called.

 

[pinotbear]

"..how'd we ever win eight!?!"

 

[UcMiami]

The rule they just added in the WNBA is the defensive 3-second rule (I haven't seen details).

The 3-second rule is generally only called on (offensive) players who are posting up waiting for the ball, or loitering in the lane but have not yet received the ball. Technically they are supposed to either A) exit the lane completely or touch their feet (foot?) outside the paint within 3 seconds before going back in, or B) receive the ball and make a field goal attempt, or at least a move toward an attempt. If not, they are called for a violation. In practice, players will often be in the lane for 3 seconds or longer, then receive the ball, then attempt to pivot, dribble, pick the ball back up, etc. before shooting or driving to the hoop. Only a shot or a move toward the hoop is supposed to 'suspend' the 3 second count, not the other stuff.

In reality, 3 seconds is rarely called unless a post player is lingering for a noticably long time without receiving the ball. Very rarely, if a player is trying to get a shot off around the basket but is really being defended well so that they have to pump fake several times, or pivot several times, etc., they will get whistled for 3 seconds. That hardly ever happens. More often, like the person you heard said, when the player gets the ball and is at least doing something with it, the refs are very unlikely to call 3 seconds.

I thought the 3 second count was supposed to 'restart' only when both feet of an offensive player leave the lane, or when an offensive player receives the ball in the lane. Are you sure of the 'move toward an attempt' language?
But on the issue - refs are watching for so many things that identifying 3 seconds of time and whether a posting player has left the lane and reentered and thus restarted the clock is almost impossible. In most cases it is based on really egregious violations where a player camps in the lane for a much longer time than just 3 seconds. And very often it is the defensive coach complaining against repeated violations that focuses a ref on the issue with or without a resulting call.
Once it gets called once in game it is much more likely to be called more often and on either team.

 

[UcMiami]

Actually it's an epidemic.

Jay bilas and others have been complaining about it in MCBB as well. He says about 90% of charges are actually blocks.

I think the creation of the inner circle was a very good idea to restrict the worst of the calls, but it could maybe be expanded just a little. And the charge calls made when the player is well into their shooting motion with one or both feet off the ground before the defensive player gets their position set are the ones that bother me most. The calls on the floor seem to be more consistent.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

"..how'd we ever win eight!?!"

Great get PB...imagine, using that word in that context.

Maybe The Natural should be rewritten…“Didja ever Lollygag Max?”

 

[Zorro]

Personally, I'm looking forward to the first "Who will the starting point guard be?" thread.

Well, one thing is certain; Conlon is too short and too slow to ever be an effective point guard for UConn!

 

[rocky rococo]

I'll fess up, no way did I expect an NC this year. I thought the Huskies were still a year away, and that Baylor and ND just had too much for a soph-frosh heavy Husky squad to handle. The regular season confirmed all my doubts to me. But kudos to the Huskies who (with a nice spot of help from Louisville) overcame the obstacles and triumphed in the end!

 

[reno tony]

IMHO based how the season went, UConn stole this years Championship and it makes up for the one they lost two years ago. I say they stole it because the overall dominating favorite at the end of the Regular Season was Baylor would win the Championship. Even after Baylor was eliminated many "Experts" thought Notre Dame was now in the Driver's Seat. How wrong they were. As the tournament progressed, many "Experts" started to change their opinion and UConn started to become a slight favorite. Still many were surprised on how easily UConn dominated Notre Dame and knew UConn would win after that happened. Through the Regular Season, Big East Tournament and the NCAA tournament only "Tony C" and some other UConn fans knew without a shadow of a doubt that UConn would win it all. I was one of the doubtful until the team beat Notre Dame.

I say this makes up for the one they lost two years ago, because then UConn was the Overwhelming Favorite especially when Baylor was eliminated. Even if Baylor wasn't eliminated, the "Experts" had UConn as the overwhelming favorite because of Maya being the best player in the country.

Maybe you don't realize how offensive your remarks are. "UCONN stole this years Championship?" Who was "the overall dominating favorite at end of the Regular Season?" The overall dominating team does not lose to a number five seed and then have the coach blame the refs. What a joke. The overall dominating team beats unranked opponents by 35 points per game and ranked opponents by 20 points per game like the 08/09/10 UCONN teams did. The only other team that did that was... oh yeah... UCONN with Tarausi, Cash, Bird, Svet, etc.

Baylor fans have the luxury of thinking like you do. They can live in fantasy land and believe Baylor would have defeated UCONN for the N.C. instead of playing UCONN and having the Huskies end those fantasies. Give Walz a call and get his opinion which was the better team. Better yet, ask his players. If you truly are a WBB fan you should realize you must prove it on the court. Give Texas A&M(two years ago) and UCONN the respect they deserve and stop trying to give the N.C. to a team that couldn't take care of business when they had to. And the way UCONN was playing during the tournament I really wish they could have played Baylor so we wouldn't have to listen to this kind of ridiculousness....either yours or mine.

 

[sarals24]

I don't think it's offensive...Baylor, other than the fluke loss to Stanford without Sims, was the dominant team all year. They beat Notre Dame, Tennessee and oh yeah, UConn. Now, towards the end of the season it started unravelling a bit, much like it did two years ago when they lost to A&M. I was at that game and the body language and behavior of Mulkey was similar to that of this year's Louisville game.

But it's not offensive to say that it was a surprise that UConn won the NC. I knew they could do it, and hoped they would, but they had not beaten ND this year, and also lost to Baylor. Now, they peaked at the right time and Baylor fell apart. So I wouldn't say they "stole" it, but they did start playing their best basketball at the end of the season, which is what we had all hoped. But after the second loss to ND, I don't think anyone would have said that UConn was the odds-on favorite to win the NC.

So for everyone who thinks that Baylor was the dominant team all year, well...that's because they were. And they fell apart at the end and I don't respect the way Mulkey "comported" herself during and after the Louisville game, but until that point I think most people assumed they would at least be in the Final Four, based on their performance all year.

 

[reno tony]

I appreciate your opinion but "stole" is just offensive to me. UCONN earned it, just like Texas A&M did two years ago. I guess I have a different definition of dominant team. They certainly did not dominate UCONN or N.D. this year. Heck, even OKST pushed them at Baylor. The loss to Stanford showed just how vulnerable the rest of the team was without Sims. And Mulkey blaming the loss to number five seed Louisville on the refs was beyond pathetic. I stand by my post but understand your points.

 

[pap49cba]

And Mulkey blaming the loss to number five seed Louisville on the refs was beyond pathetic. I stand by my post but understand your points.

I agree with the comments about KM. Clearly she couldn't blame herself so it had to be the officials' fault.

 

[UcMiami]

I appreciate your opinion but "stole" is just offensive to me. UCONN earned it, just like Texas A&M did two years ago. I guess I have a different definition of dominant team. They certainly did not dominate UCONN or N.D. this year. Heck, even OKST pushed them at Baylor. The loss to Stanford showed just how vulnerable the rest of the team was without Sims. And Mulkey blaming the loss to number five seed Louisville on the refs was beyond pathetic. I stand by my post but understand your points.

I do not think the intent of the original post was to be insulting and the reference to Uconn having one 'stolen' from them wasn't either. But I do agree in both cases that 'stolen' is not a very good choice of world as it implies that the team that won and the other teams involved in the end did not deserve what they won.
And I think most Baylor fans while berating the refs, also agree that there was something 'not right' with the team in that game and for reasons of coaching or prep or the pre-game food, or whatever - the team played poorly and by doing so allowed the outcome to come down to the last shot. They acknowledge (if not credit) what Jeff said - it was not the Louisville defense that won the game - Baylor scored their season average - it was the Louisville offense that did. (and conversely the Baylor defense that lost it.)

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I appreciate your opinion but "stole" is just offensive to me. UCONN earned it, just like Texas A&M did two years ago. I guess I have a different definition of dominant team. They certainly did not dominate UCONN or N.D. this year. Heck, even OKST pushed them at Baylor. The loss to Stanford showed just how vulnerable the rest of the team was without Sims. And Mulkey blaming the loss to number five seed Louisville on the refs was beyond pathetic. I stand by my post but understand your points.

I just want to point out that WBBfan1 to the best of my knowledge reading the board is a serious UConn fan. I don't think he was trying to be offensive, or mean anything by stole other than "win a championship that they were not originally expected to".

Baylor was the dominate favorite in the book of all but a few UConn fans (as WBB noted in his post), and he correctly identifies that once UConn dominated Notre Dame, they did become the favorite in the championship game.

The real world doesn't always make UConn a favorite just because they know they are capable of winning - Baylor and ND both had some supporters, but the general fans are certainly realistic enough to have UConn as the overwhelming favorite for next year, I think. I know I do.

 

[reno tony]

Okay, I withdraw my irritation with the WBBfan1 post. All of you know him much better than I do and I will accept that he meant nothing mean in his post. I guess we all have our buttons and he hit one of mine. If you are out there, WBB, I will look forward to your future posts.

Kelly Faris is Superwoman in disguise!!​