Notre Dame inadvertently shows how difficult 87 straight is

[Carnac]

No doubt Maryland played great, but I would offer that the fourth quarter was more a product of UConn running out of the allowable number of fouls, rather than Maryland "running out of time". At the very least, many of those 4thQ Maryland layups would have been contested had Williams and Collier not been in serious foul trouble.... and the final winning margin might have been quite different.

I posted a comment earlier in the week eluding to this very dynamic. This was not UConn's first rodeo this season. They've already played very good top ranked teams, and have faced adversity in the first 11 games. That experience allowed them the comfort of not panicking, keeping their poise, and playing their way through a very tight and highly contested game. Because of this, Maryland was not able to break their will or resolve.

You're not afraid of entering a pitch black room if you were in there a moment ago when the lights were on. As a species, we don't like the dark (the unknown), we don't like to be in situations that we are not in control of. We always fear the worst when we hear bad news, or when a friend/loved one is missing.

 

[easttexastrash]

I am really surprised that it took this long for UCONN fans, who are very informed and intelligent basketball fans, to see that ND was overrated. I think that having faced them and having lost to them quite a few times that the performance of the past teams was somehow transferred to the opinion of this year's team.

 

[Carnac]

Hey, remember, ND (according to MM) has the best point guard and the best post player in the nation! And didn't they have one of the best recruiting classes this year?

That's why I love the yard. Some of you guys don't miss (or forget) anything. Nothing gets by you. I remember MM saying that too. Perhaps she was off her medication when she made that statement.
When one steps out on a limb, one must be very careful not to go beyond a certain point, otherwise a horrific fate may befall you.

 

[Carnac]

I am really surprised that it took this long for UCONN fans, who are very informed and intelligent basketball fans, to see that ND was overrated. I think that having faced them and having lost to them quite a few times that the performance of the past teams was somehow transferred to the opinion of this year's team.

Hi ET, Happy holidays to you and yours.

Don't be surprised. Some of us are like the late "Will Rogers". Remember what he said: "All I know is what I read in the newspapers". Our version of that is: All we know is what we read here in the BONEYARD. Thank goodness we have a multitude of people all across the country contributing articles, stories, videos, opinions and other assorted comments to the yard.

 

[Rixxx]

The ND board today was hypercritical of the team. If I closed my eyes, I would swear I was on VolNation. Just sayin...

 

[Carnac]

The ND board today was hypercritical of the team. If I closed my eyes, I would swear I was on VolNation. Just sayin...

Notre Dame Nation can tolerate a lot of things, BUT..............one thing they cannot/will not tolerate is a loss, especially to an unranked team of (supposedly) lesser talent.

 

[trb123]

Hey, remember, ND (according to MM) has the best point guard and the best post player in the nation! And didn't they have one of the best recruiting classes this year?

It is not nice to fib during Lent about other teams.
Don't know if you can get a dispensation after Xmas

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Wow!!!!! A UConn win, and a Notre Dame loss (to an unranked team). It doesn't get any better than THAT!!!!!

Bad, bad Carnac ... bad! HeHe. I have been wondering over the course of the last 3 recruiting cycles what Muffet was doing. ND has gotten less athletic/slower. Strange recruiting decisions IMO, but maybe she just could not get who/what she really wanted. It is only one game, but a problem with a loss like this is what it does to your opponents, not to mention the creeping doubt in your players.

 

[mhshuskies]

I thought they were too highly ranked. Where was the improvement from last year? They lost whatever leadership they had so where would it come from this year? Young talent and experience that doesn't step up at crunch time. I can't see their AA playing knocking down crucial shots between running to the sideline to fill the barf bucket. That's leadership! How much longer do we have to hear about 8 McDonalds All Americans. If the talent is so superior why doesn't it transfer to game time.

 

[UcMiami]

I am really surprised that it took this long for UCONN fans, who are very informed and intelligent basketball fans, to see that ND was overrated. I think that having faced them and having lost to them quite a few times that the performance of the past teams was somehow transferred to the opinion of this year's team.

I think ND has earned that 'respect' over the last 7 or so years. MM has succeeded in replacing some seriously good players each year without losing their grove - including last year after Jewell jumped to the WNBA. Compared to the earlier losses, the losses coming into this season didn't seem that significant and the recruits and players returning from injury seemed more than adequate to keep the team rolling. I think there are a number of people that are surprised that they are struggling as much as they are. As there are a number of people who expected Baylor to beat Uconn, and Uconn to end December with 2 or 3 losses.

Most of us probably haven't watched many minutes of ND (or Baylor, or MD) except for the 40 minutes against Uconn and that can be a distorting window on a team. Uconn plays a different kind of defense from pretty much anyone else and it can make teams and individual players look a lot worse than they actual are. We check box scores and maybe read a few articles about specific games, but that only tells you so much with the spotty OOC that teams play. Conference games will give us all a better handle on teams because they should in general be more competitive.

 

[Plebe]

I am really surprised that it took this long for UCONN fans, who are very informed and intelligent basketball fans, to see that ND was overrated. I think that having faced them and having lost to them quite a few times that the performance of the past teams was somehow transferred to the opinion of this year's team.

More than one person on the board had already observed that ND was underachieving this year (i.e., not playing like the #2 team in the country). More than one person had opined that Baylor should be ranked ahead of ND. But I don't think anyone, yourself included, predicted a NC State victory.

 

[Carnac]

Bad, bad Carnac ... bad! HeHe. I have been wondering over the course of the last 3 recruiting cycles what Muffet was doing. ND has gotten less athletic/slower. Strange recruiting decisions IMO, but maybe she just could not get who/what she really wanted. It is only one game, but a problem with a loss like this is what it does to your opponents, not to mention the creeping doubt in your players.

Rocky, you know the Irish have no love for us. They would revel like it was 11:59 pm (and the ball was descending) on new year's eve, if we were to lose a game. So pardon me if I do a jig for a moment, and raise a toast to North Carolina State for a job well done. I don't like to hold on to grudges BUT.............................I have not forgotten Muffet's tirades 2 year's ago during the NCAA finals, when she deliberately went off on Geno during several press conferences, saying that "the civility has been lost at the top of WCBB, and that she really lost respect for, and has no use for Geno". I think we can all remember his answer to her comments.

She put the spotlight on herself (which may have been her intent), and it back fired on her. I remember Doris Burke making it a point to reference her remarks during the TV broadcast, totally disagreeing with her, saying that Geno (and staff) has been cordial and gracious every time she has encountered him. Sorry, it may take me a few more years to get THAT memory out of my consciousness. Right now, I'm a happy man, hoping for more ND losses..................soon!

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Rocky, you know the Irish have no love for us. They would revel like it was 11:59 pm (and the ball was descending) on new year's eve, if we were to lose a game. So pardon me if I do a jig for a moment, and raise a toast to North Carolina State for a job well done. I don't like to hold on to grudges BUT.........I have not forgotten Muffet's tirades 2 year's ago during the NCAA finals, when she deliberately went off on Geno during several press conferences, saying that "the civility has been lost at the top of WCBB, and that she really lost respect for, and has no use for Geno". I think we can all remember his answer to her comments.

She put the spotlight on herself (which may have been her intent), and it back fired on her. I remember Doris Burke making it a point to reference her remarks during the TV broadcast, totally disagreeing with her, saying that Geno (and staff) has been cordial and gracious every time she has encountered him. Sorry, it may take me a few more years to get THAT memory out of my consciousness. Right now, I'm a happy man, hoping for more ND losses...soon!

I'm sorry, but our time is up for today. Made me laugh. I share your Schadenfreude and relish anything that brings pain to the Mother Sourpuss for the reasons you mentioned. Doris's partner in the booth was perhaps even more pointed in calling Muffet out. Still, this loss could be the Arse Kicking ND needs to get with it and be a threat come NCAAs time.

 

[DefenseBB]

Hey, remember, ND (according to MM) has the best point guard and the best post player in the nation! And didn't they have one of the best recruiting classes this year?

We are supposed to be magnanimous when winning however when it comes to MM and her sense of entitlement for her and her program, watching them stumble does force me to crack a smile. I do think both her AA's are overrated. Turner just seems to come up small in big spots. Mabry had a big game last night though while the rest of the team seemed to be out of sync. Remember that is a team with 8 HS AAs on it. I think MW chose wisely!

 

[bballnut90]

NOTRE DAME is a deep talented team. If Geno was their coach, they'd be number one AND undefeated. They have so many horses, the barn can't hold them all. That said, Muffet has to take charge, stop baking cookies and kick their talented butts. Allen should be the primary quarterback, the true point guard, dishing to Agunbawale, Maybry, and the emerging freshmen. The loss to NCstate could be their wakeup call or they could choose to wait, but they need to get Arike off the dribble and let Allen find the open shooters of which they have too many to count. I would be happy to have Muffet remain clueless, and lose early in the tournament so as not to see them again because, on paper, they are a sleeping giant.

I don't think it's likely Gene has them as the #1 team at this point in the year if he coaches them starting at the beginning of year. Notre Dame's struggles are due to incoming freshmen taking time to adjust to the college game, and Turner not being an improved player from a year ago. Having Geno wouldn't change that.

And Muffett is far from clueless. She has established herself as the clear #2 coach in the country behind Geno with her ability to develop players and put together teams that play great basketball. Rocky start, but don't count her out. I still think Notre Dame makes their 6th Final Four in seven seasons, but I also think UCONN wins their 5th straight title.

 

[DefenseBB]

When teams of equal talent hit the field or court, with coaches of virtually equal measure, for me, it almost always comes down to character. Who wants it more, and what are they willing to do to win.

I respect you and your team more than any other in CBB, men or women's. The numbers you've quoted clearly show exemplary assist to FG numbers.

Having coach HS kids for 20+ years I politely disagree that it comes down to character. There have been plenty of "poor" character teams that have won championships. Considering Geno recruited virtually all of those kids on ND, I think their character is pretty strong. I just think ND coaching staff has more work to do for them to utilize their skills as a team. They are similar to adjusting your coaching to your players like Geno is doing this year.

 

[DefenseBB]

I am really surprised that it took this long for UCONN fans, who are very informed and intelligent basketball fans, to see that ND was overrated. I think that having faced them and having lost to them quite a few times that the performance of the past teams was somehow transferred to the opinion of this year's team.

Me, as a UConn fan did think ND was overrated and am usually dumbfounded at both the writers and other coaches who continually vote them higher even when the results don't warrant it. Just a bit of research by them would show ND to be #7-9 rank.

 

[JordyG]

Having coach HS kids for 20+ years I politely disagree that it comes down to character. There have been plenty of "poor" character teams that have won championships. Considering Geno recruited virtually all of those kids on ND, I think their character is pretty strong. I just think ND coaching staff has more work to do for them to utilize their skills as a team. They are similar to adjusting your coaching to your players like Geno is doing this year.

Well considering my conceit: teams of equal talent with coaches of virtually equal measure, basically all things being equal, then from what I've experienced I may be wrong. I don't think so. I've also seen many teams with a lack of character win championships. But those teams won because of more talent, bad coaching decisions, poor refereeing, bad bounces, injuries etc. But that is not all things being equal. That is something else tipping the scales. Please if you will, name a championship team that won under my auspices that had the lesser character? No one says this ND team is lacking in character, and I certainly didn't say they lost because of it. Certainly though the Baylor game is a prime example of my premise, as was the Maryland game. So, I too must politely, and respectfully, considering your coaching experience dwarfs mine, disagree.

 

[JordyG]

Having coach HS kids for 20+ years I politely disagree that it comes down to character. There have been plenty of "poor" character teams that have won championships. Considering Geno recruited virtually all of those kids on ND, I think their character is pretty strong. I just think ND coaching staff has more work to do for them to utilize their skills as a team. They are similar to adjusting your coaching to your players like Geno is doing this year.

As an addendum, I've also seen many teams with lesser all around talent and the lesser character win because they've had the transcendent player such as the Jordan team's vs the Celtic team's. But again, that's hardly all things being equal. I think I'm coming over as a jerk. In the long view your experience totally trumps mine, so I'll agree to your opinion over mine. And have a good New Year.

 

[Carnac]

Me, as a UConn fan did think ND was overrated and am usually dumbfounded at both the writers and other coaches who continually vote them higher even when the results don't warrant it. Just a bit of research by them would show ND to be #7-9 rank.

I join in your amazement and bewilderment. The same rating system or criteria they used to rank UConn #6, they should have used for ND. Clearly, they WERE NOT the #1 team in the country they were thought to be in the preseason.

 

[PhillyCoach]

With the ND loss and South Carolina's loss thrown in, I have to agree with a poster who said "We have reached parity in WBB." Yes, every one is equaling fighting to join UConn in the final four. Last year, didn't we have three new teams expand the group of title contenders. Oh yea, all the others-- Cudda been a contender. That's cause UConn is the Champion for now. Seems like we might get a few new teams to contend this year again. Florida State and Kansas State are two new dangerous teams--relatively speaking.
On another issue, last year we had three teams with the "Character" to win as JordyG said. Washington, Syracuse and Oregon State had the character to overcome odds and make the illusive final four. I might call JordyG's "Character"--mental toughness, strong Belief, or iron mind-set, or relentless pursuit of perfection, or Hungriest team, or positive expectancy, or plain old wantsitmore. One word.
I know what you are saying JordG. And I have to agree that "Character" is less obvious in many endeavors of life these days. Not just basketball. Those few who have character in high doses usually succeed at a higher rate--IMHO. That's in basketball or life in general.

 

[easttexastrash]

I keep seeing K-State being listed as a "dangerous" team. I just don't see this one. I know they played UCONN pretty well but Baylor ran roughshod over the Wildcats and could have beaten them by 40 - 50 had Kim not given the bench almost 50% of the playing time. Not that it is a bad bench.

 

[easttexastrash]

"the civility has been lost at the top of WCBB, and that she really lost respect for, and has no use for Geno".

I remember her saying that the civility had been lost, but I don't remember her saying that she has lost resepect for and has no use for Geno. Is that an actual quote or are you adding some color to her comment?

 

[easttexastrash]

Certainly though the Baylor game is a prime example of my premise, as was the Maryland game.

Maybe I read that wrong, but it sounds like you just said that Baylor and Maryland are lacking in character.

 

[UcMiami]

I keep seeing K-State being listed as a "dangerous" team. I just don't see this one. I know they played UCONN pretty well but Baylor ran roughshod over the Wildcats and could have beaten them by 40 - 50 had Kim not given the bench almost 50% of the playing time. Not that it is a bad bench.

Baylor should beat them easily, though I suspect the return match-up on their home court may be a little tighter - while Baylor has generally risen above the pack in terms of their road performance, a lot of lesser teams really struggle on the road, especially teams on the rise. It is a learning curve that I remember Baylor going through early in the Griner years - figuring out that consistency regardless of location, getting a travel routine down.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Rocky, you know the Irish have no love for us. They would revel like it was 11:59 pm (and the ball was descending) on new year's eve, if we were to lose a game. So pardon me if I do a jig for a moment, and raise a toast to North Carolina State for a job well done. I don't like to hold on to grudges BUT.........I have not forgotten Muffet's tirades 2 year's ago during the NCAA finals, when she deliberately went off on Geno during several press conferences, saying that "the civility has been lost at the top of WCBB, and that she really lost respect for, and has no use for Geno". I think we can all remember his answer to her comments.

She put the spotlight on herself (which may have been her intent), and it back fired on her. I remember Doris Burke making it a point to reference her remarks during the TV broadcast, totally disagreeing with her, saying that Geno (and staff) has been cordial and gracious every time she has encountered him. Sorry, it may take me a few more years to get THAT memory out of my consciousness. Right now, I'm a happy man, hoping for more ND losses...soon!

I, too, would do a jig over ND's loss, but my jig muscles were to so rom all my jigging over the Maryland results.

 

[easttexastrash]

Baylor should beat them easily, though I suspect the return match-up on their home court may be a little tighter - while Baylor has generally risen above the pack in terms of their road performance, a lot of lesser teams really struggle on the road, especially teams on the rise. It is a learning curve that I remember Baylor going through early in the Griner years - figuring out that consistency regardless of location, getting a travel routine down.

Well, their two best players are seniors, so if they curve anymore they will be curving right into graduation. It's not as if this is a team lead by a bunch of underclassmen.

 

[Oldbones]

Wow!!!!! A UConn win, and a Notre Dame loss (to an unranked team). It doesn't get any better than THAT!!!!!

Thank goodness. We can finally drop Norte Dame to a more deserving ranking. I still am confused as to how they lost to UCONN at home and didn't drop ANY.

I presume MD won't drop any, either.

ETT, I believe that Baylor is the #2 team in the country. I believe that they were dropped by the pollmeisters after their loss to UCONN because UCONN was suspect off their graduation losses, and Baylor's loss coming just after a suspect UCONN performance against a suspect team(FSU) . FSU has shown they are a good team, and with each UCONN victory there is less if any of the punishment like that meted out to Baylor for UCONN's more recent vanquished opponents. I posted back then that Baylor was #2, and that neither team should be punished for scheduling UCONN.

As a relative newcomer, I am happy to see you and other out-of-towners supporting the BY dialog. Like those very rare immigrants to Tristan da Cunha, you improve the bloodlines here.
.

 

[easttexastrash]

ETT, I believe that Baylor is the #2 team in the country. I believe that they were dropped by the pollmeisters after their loss to UCONN because UCONN was suspect off their graduation losses, and Baylor's loss coming just after a suspect UCONN performance against a suspect team(FSU) . FSU has shown they are a good team, and with each UCONN victory there is less if any of the punishment like that meted out to Baylor for UCONN's more recent vanquished opponents. I posted back then that Baylor was #2, and that neither team should be punished for scheduling UCONN.

As a relative newcomer, I am happy to see you and other out-of-towners supporting the BY dialog. Like those very rare immigrants to Tristan da Cunha, you improve the bloodlines here.
.View attachment 18134

Thanks for the kind words.

And I think you are 100% correct that Baylor was punished more by the pollsters because Baylor was expected, by many, to win that game, not knowing how good UCONN really is. So when Baylor lost to UCONN it looked like a "bad" loss for Baylor, as if there is ever a bad loss to UCONN. By the time Notre Dame and Maryland played UCONN, UCONN was the favorite so a loss by those two teams didn't seem like a "bad" loss.

 

[trb123]

Some questions:

1. How are the duties divided among the ND asst coaches? I guess Ivey is heavily involved in recruiting. How about post players and guard development?
2. Before the 2016-17 season started, Tara made a comment about the UConn team - how surprised she would be if the team goes beyond a certain point in the NCAA tournament. I cannot recall it. Please help. She might have been responding to some questions put to her by the media.