Notre Dame (according to ESPN)

[businesslawyer]

I believe this has been Swofford's plan all along. His vision is to lock up the East coast (ND is essentially an east coast school in culture, alumni, fans, etc.) with the highest caliber combination of academic and athletic programs available. Grab Pitt and Cuse, destabilize the Big East and UConn will be waiting for a 16th team to make the jump.

Obviously, if you have a Texas or a PSU or a Notre Dame expressing interest you grab them but overall he is going to grab the 16 best schools / athletic programs available on the east coast and UConn with the lastest USNWR ranking and unbelievable athletic success of the past 15 – 20 years fits that mold perfectly. If he cannot grab ND he will fall back to RU which is exactly what he is telling ND. They will not have their olympic sports stuck in a conf with the Catholic schools plus KS, IA St, Baylor, USF, Louisville, UWV, RU, etc.

Also, ND has never wanted to join the Big 10 despite their long term rivalries with MSU, UM, Purdue, etc. They would feel right at home with BC, UNC, Duke, UVA, GT, etc. This is the first stage of the process of vetting the media, alumni, and big donors and getting them on board with the idea of joining a conference. Next step for ACC is to make sure Texas and PSU are not going to come, which is probably already done. Then start leaking additional information about potentially adding ND yada yada. Followed by an announcement that ND and UConn are joining the ACC as the final 2 teams along with a huge new contract from ESPN. I believe within 2 weeks we will see this come to fruition. We are not getting an invitation from the Big 10 so this is the best outcome for UConn at this point.

The only scenario in which it makes sense for the Big Ten to take us is along with ND and Rutgers, creating an eastern cluster that allows the big name midwestern schools to combine with RU and UConn and become the primary player in the New York market. Otherwise, we make little sense for the Big Ten.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

If by chance we do go to the Big 10 maybe we can share Gillette with UMass for our Big 10 games.....Just kidding but we would have to figure something out. At least that would cement us as New England's College Team!

 

[uconndogs]

I have to believe that we are ahead of Rutgers in the ACC selection process with or without ND for one simple reason. Everything UCONN has done with its athletic department has been successful on a national level. Rutgers is still nowhere with this, and at this point there has to be serious doubts about Schiano and the football program. At some level I think you have to go with the much better managed program. Not to mention that NJ is a fiscal mess......

 

[LRock34]

ND is devious. Don't buy this for a second. They are trying to throw a wrench into further ACC expansion because they probably believe the BE can add a couple schools and stay together.

This is exactly what they are thinking.

I believe you're spot on with this. I thought the exact same thing when I heard it this morning. This is nothing more than a stalling tactic by ND and possibly even leadership in Providence. The ACC will wait and ND will hope they can force UConn and RU into staying. I hope the ACC isn't stupid enough to fall for this.

 

[alexd]

If by chance we do go to the Big 10 maybe we can share Gillette with UMass for our Big 10 games.....Just kidding but we would have to figure something out. At least that would cement us as New England's College Team!

what's funny is, Storrs is 25 miles closer to Gillette than Amherst is.

 

[jpm25]

1. The Big Ten wants Notre Dame, and Notre Dame's first choice is the Big Ten, but in each case it will depend on the terms. Not inconceivable that the ACC offers ND better terms and not inconceivable the Big Ten won't match them and ND goes south.

2. I am very concerned, very concerned, that if ND is negotiating with the ACC they would prefer Rutgers to us to play in the Meadowlands (which are fan base so brilliantly went ballistic about) and help their New Jersey recruiting base. Big problem.

3. On the other hand, ND's first preference is to keep the Big EAst alive, the remaining football schools aligned with the Catholics, so it doesn't have to change. If the ACC wants to force ND's hand, the move is to take UConn. That so harms men's hoops on top of Pitt and Syracuse gone, kills womens hoops, harms baseball, soccer, track, field hockey, .... Then, the ACC tells ND in thirty days if we don't have you lined up as #16 we're offering Rutgers.

4. Swofford has played this dead on correctly from the beginning. He is forcing everyone's hand, and knows with unlimited time he loses because the SEC and Big Ten have stronger hands to play. But this strategy is the win-win for him, in that either he forces ND in or at worst he guaranties that the ACC will be as strong in the Northeast going forward as the Big Ten (which he has not yet accomplished).

That would be my hope. As I said the other day, I think ND knows it's done as an independent in football. What you're watching now is a play being acted out to shield the administration from the alumni when they join somewhere.

#1 - how do you know ND wants the Big 10?

#2 - You don't think Herbst would agree to play ND at the Meadowlands if the stakes are in the ACC or in the Big 1East2? You think the message boards have a say here?

 

[LRock34]

ND isn't going to the Big 10 either. This isn't a negotiating tactic. ND wants to stay independent and keep it's sweet deal with the BE. What ND is attempting to do right now is keep the BE together. ND is located in Indiana but it is an East Coast school with an East Coast student population. ND does not want to join the Big 10. They want to maintain their National presence but play as many games as possible in the northeast. Joining a conference doesn't do this for them.

The sad part is that if the ACC offered ND the option to play their olympic sports in the ACC, ND would drop the BE like a stone.

My HATRED for ND is at an ALL TIME high right now.

 

[uconnric]

I believe you're spot on with this. I thought the exact same thing when I heard it this morning. This is nothing more than a stalling tactic by ND and possibly even leadership in Providence. The ACC will wait and ND will hope they can force UConn and RU into staying. I hope the ACC isn't stupid enough to fall for this.

I'd like to call the ACC a number of things, but stupid isn't one of them. This fiasco has the fingerprints of the morally challenged Gene Di all over it. I don't think the ACC is going to wait for anyone unless it fits into their own agenda. Of all the conferences in this reorganization mess, they have been the least likely to tip their hand.

 

[businesslawyer]

#1 - how do you know ND wants the Big 10?

#2 - You don't think Herbst would agree to play ND at the Meadowlands if the stakes are in the ACC or in the Big 1East2? You think the message boards have a say here?

As to your first point, because we know the ND administration decided to join the Big Ten a number of years ago before they let the alumni veto the idea.

As to your second, I have no idea what Herbst would do. But do I think fan reaction was part of the Notre Dame contract never been signed? Yes, I do.

 

[The Funster]

ND would only go to the ACC because they'd have more control than if they'd go to the Big 10. They want to wag the dog. I also don't see the egos at the Golden Dome giving up football independence as long as Texas has it's own network. I expect ND to stay with the existing BE non-football schools for all sports and retaining football independence.

 

[gars44]

ND would only go to the ACC because they'd have more control than if they'd go to the Big 10. They want to wag the dog. I also don't see the egos at the Golden Dome giving up football independence as long as Texas has it's own network. I expect ND to stay with the existing BE non-football schools for all sports and retaining football independence.

My point exactly. ND will never have a reason to join a conference unless football independence becomes unmanageable. It's not even close. Way too much institutional resistance to giving up independence.

 

[gars44]

As to your first point, because we know the ND administration decided to join the Big Ten a number of years ago before they let the alumni veto the idea.

As to your second, I have no idea what Herbst would do. But do I think fan reaction was part of the Notre Dame contract never been signed? Yes, I do.

BL, you may be right as to the first point but demographics have changed in the last 10 years, making them reconsider a long term sign up with the decaying rust belt conference. The ACC demographic is growing by leaps and bounds. Be that as it may, conference affiliation with any conference is way second to independence, and independence is not in any serious jeopardy in the near term. I think Notre Dame passes on this round of re-alignment. This means that if the ACC moves forward, it looks good for CT and RU. I really don't think ND cares.

Btw, FSU is not in love with further dilution of the football product by adding Uconn and Rutgers. Pitt and Syracuse was bad enough. FSU poobahs are wondering to themselves right now, "what else does Duke and North Carolina want, for God's sake." That's a problem.

 

[UCDaveD]

Notre Dame can kiss my ass.

 

[freescooter]

My point exactly. ND will never have a reason to join a conference unless football independence becomes unmanageable. It's not even close. Why too much institutional resistance to giving up independence.

One thing that is hard to quantify here, though is the reaction of the Notre Dame Alumni. I'm thinking that they would grudingly accept a move to the Big 10, but might well view a move to the ACC as more of a step down than they are willing to accept. Now the administration might be able to position it to work, but I'm not so sure about that. As far as football prestige is concerned, in no known universe are Florida State, Clemson and Virginia Tech as prestigious as Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State and it doesn't really matter who would win a matchup.

 

[huskeynut]

ND is playing two sides against the middle with the hope of maintaining their football independence while finding a place for their other sports teams. I don't think the ACC is going to wait more than a week or two on ND. If ND continues to play this game, they may be the ones on the outside looking in.

I think we are next in the ACC with what we bring to the table in terms of academics and athletics. The question remains who with be the 16th - ND, Rutgers, WVU or someone else?

 

[jrazz12]

Possible scenario for us to go B1G:
At this point, everyone is really just waiting on TX. Once Texas makes its move west (disintegrating the Big 12), Baylor will need to drop its petty lawsuit and face the music.

SEC can then take A&M and move on its 14th team. If that is WVU, that has to spell the end of the Big East. UConn and RU have further cover for announcing their intentions to leave, and ND has their hand forced. Assuming they want B1G, and B1G wants to lock in a strong presence in the NYC/Eastern market, they take UConn, ND, and RU, adding Mizzou as 16.

I still think ACC is more likely, but this B1G move could really take shape here as soon as Texas goes.

 

[upstater]

1. The Big Ten wants Notre Dame, and Notre Dame's first choice is the Big Ten, but in each case it will depend on the terms. Not inconceivable that the ACC offers ND better terms and not inconceivable the Big Ten won't match them and ND goes south.

2. I am very concerned, very concerned, that if ND is negotiating with the ACC they would prefer Rutgers to us to play in the Meadowlands (which are fan base so brilliantly went ballistic about) and help their New Jersey recruiting base. Big problem.

3. On the other hand, ND's first preference is to keep the Big EAst alive, the remaining football schools aligned with the Catholics, so it doesn't have to change. If the ACC wants to force ND's hand, the move is to take UConn. That so harms men's hoops on top of Pitt and Syracuse gone, kills womens hoops, harms baseball, soccer, track, field hockey, .... Then, the ACC tells ND in thirty days if we don't have you lined up as #16 we're offering Rutgers.

4. Swofford has played this dead on correctly from the beginning. He is forcing everyone's hand, and knows with unlimited time he loses because the SEC and Big Ten have stronger hands to play. But this strategy is the win-win for him, in that either he forces ND in or at worst he guaranties that the ACC will be as strong in the Northeast going forward as the Big Ten (which he has not yet accomplished).

That would be my hope. As I said the other day, I think ND knows it's done as an independent in football. What you're watching now is a play being acted out to shield the administration from the alumni when they join somewhere.

What I don't understand about your initial point, however, is that ND's bid to keep its TV package would be met enthusiastically by B10. Oh, you say you don't want to participate in Big10 TV revenue sharing? You'd rather join and keep your own package? Well, yes, be our guest!! We'll pay ut $30 million a year per team on our end, you can stick with your $8-12 million.

 

[upstater]

Also, ND has never wanted to join the Big 10 despite their long term rivalries with MSU, UM, Purdue, etc. They would feel right at home with BC, UNC, Duke, UVA, GT, etc.

This statement totally conflicts with the facts. ND elected to join the BigTen about a decade ago. They were in. Only a last minute powow in a French chalet by alumni who wanted to remain independent put the kibbosh on it. AD, President, trustees, etc., all said yes to the Big10. Alumni brought the hammer down.

I wonder if alumni are sick of what's been going on at ND by now.

 

[upstater]

I'd like to call the ACC a number of things, but stupid isn't one of them. This fiasco has the fingerprints of the morally challenged Gene Di all over it. I don't think the ACC is going to wait for anyone unless it fits into their own agenda. Of all the conferences in this reorganization mess, they have been the least likely to tip their hand.

But they do have FSU, VT and Clemson clamoring for more football. That would be ND.

 

[businesslawyer]

What I don't understand about your initial point, however, is that ND's bid to keep its TV package would be met enthusiastically by B10. Oh, you say you don't want to participate in Big10 TV revenue sharing? You'd rather join and keep your own package? Well, yes, be our guest!! We'll pay ut $30 million a year per team on our end, you can stick with your $8-12 million.

I'm not sure what you think I said, but we both new that, in the current marketplace, ND's contract with NBC is under market and will go up when it expires. Despite the Irish's mediocrity on the field, its market power is still there. There is no way, long term, ND's TV rights aren't worth more than the average Big Ten game (what would a 6 versus 7 game be -- Iowa versus Michigan State).

 

[upstater]

My point exactly. ND will never have a reason to join a conference unless football independence becomes unmanageable. It's not even close. Way too much institutional resistance to giving up independence.

I agree with this. But if ever forced into it, I can't see why they'd pick the ACC over the Big10.

 

[upstater]

I'm not sure what you think I said, but we both new that, in the current marketplace, ND's contract with NBC is under market and will go up when it expires. Despite the Irish's mediocrity on the field, its market power is still there. There is no way, long term, ND's TV rights aren't worth more than the average Big Ten game (what would a 6 versus 7 game be -- Iowa versus Michigan State).

It would have to triple for it to be worth as much, and even then, what would it gain by demanding its own deal? The money would be even steven. unless it's envisioning $40 million a year.

I wonder, where in the world is all this money coming from?

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Nothing will force Notre Dame's hand with the current BCS set-up. They will remain an independent because they have no reason to join a conference. Why would they join a 16 team conference which: a) gives up their independence b) takes away their scheduling freedom c) makes it a lot harder to qualify for the BCS. The olympic sports here are such an afterthought it doesn't even make sense to mention them. At worse they end up aligned with catholic basketball schools. In addition, (according to quick google search) Notre Dame's endowment is $5.5 billion. A few million dollars extra in a tv contract is not going to break the bank for them.

IF a few years down the road the 4 16 team superconferences becomes a reality, like everyone is predicting, and a playoff is instituted, then ND will join a conference.

You really think any conference wouldn't expand to 17 teams to let Notre Dame in?

 

[businesslawyer]

But they do have FSU, VT and Clemson clamoring for more football. That would be ND.

They would love ND, and that isn't limited to the southern football first schools. I do believe, however, that the ACC knows that its best chance of getting ND is to force a decision -- not engage in a waiting game. ND will always win a waiting game because it prefers the status quo. ACC's chance of getting the Irish is by saying "Status quo is dead and we're moving on with or without you -- which way would you prefer it."

 

[businesslawyer]

It would have to triple for it to be worth as much, and even then, what would it gain by demanding its own deal? The money would be even steven. unless it's envisioning $40 million a year.

I wonder, where in the world is all this money coming from?

The last comment is perfectly fair, but can be applied to any of the contracts being signed up over the last year.