Notre Dame 2024-25 Season

[Dillon77]

Top Ten Scorers in ND WBB History

When the team you root for is hot, articles, interviews, posts start dropping from everywhere.

Here's one of those on the Top Ten scorers in ND WBB history, as of this moment.
I have a feeling a certain guard on the current team might displace more than a few of the players on this list.

The names at the very top of this list shouldn't surprise anyone, but it does get interesting after that....

MSN

 

[Bone Dog]

Tough loss to NC St just now. Double OT. Zoe Brooks scored 33 — hadn’t realized until this game that Zoe and Hannah were childhood rivals. But you could really see it today.

Also, it looks like Koval has mainly fallen out of the rotation. Is that just today or has it been the case for a while now?

 

[HuskyNan]

Rebounding, rebounding, rebounding…

 

[cancontent]

Rebounding, rebounding, rebounding…

And by the slimest of margins too. NC State had an advantage of 2 total rebounds (ND - 49, NC State - 51).

While ND won on the offensive side with 17, NC State did a great job defending their end as they had 42 defensive rebounds to ND's 32. That's a lot of extra opportunities they prevented ND from having.

 

[Reypl21]

I hope this is a good wake up call to the players and staff. Our offense is too much ISO. There were so many poor shot attempts by Hannah and Olivia in the first half. Hannah has spurts where she can score 5-8 quickly, but then take 5 shots on 5 possessions. Olivia's fallen in love with taking tough 3's, and her percentages are rounding out after a hot start. Those two are dominating the ball too much.

Westbeld, Citron, and King need to be involved in the offense earlier than the second half. Westbeld in particular they really need to figure out how to incorporate better. The ISO offense doesn't make that easier.

I also think the moment got them too. They've had some rather easy games in the ACC. Hannah, Olivia, and Niele have done tons of interviews. We became the #1 team in the country. Hannah is pressing recently because of the NPOY race. They were at Unrivaled and were treated very kindly over there. They have moments where they play good team ball, but tonight was so much hero ball. And tbh, if Miles didn't have that double dribble I think they would've stole the win.

 

[Reypl21]

Tough loss to NC St just now. Double OT. Zoe Brooks scored 33 — hadn’t realized until this game that Zoe and Hannah were childhood rivals. But you could really see it today.

Also, it looks like Koval has mainly fallen out of the rotation. Is that just today or has it been the case for a while now?

Koval is pretty much out of the rotation against good competition. Unless maybe they have a big post like her.

 

[JellyBean]

That was a great game. Tough loss for Notre Dame but nothing to worry about. Just poor shot selection and a few mistakes here and there. Notre Dame will see Nc State again in the ACC tournament. ND will be okay.

 

[Jumper33]

I watched this whole thing. Very entertaining. Funny how they kept putting the graphic up showing what a poor FT shooting team NC State is, and they just kept making them. James is the real deal and I think she could make a very solid WNBA player, although she’s not the tallest.

I would hate to have to watch this film back if I was one of the ND players or coaches. Seems like Hidalgo and Miles usually have everything going their way, certainly not this time.

 

[DallasDomer]

That was a great game. Tough loss for Notre Dame but nothing to worry about. Just poor shot selection and a few mistakes here and there. Notre Dame will see Nc State again in the ACC tournament. ND will be okay.

There was some poor shot selection but imo the larger issue was how ND could be called for 21 fouls and NC State only 9? Which impacted who could play and how they could play not to mention 16 more points from free throws.

I hate to complain about refs but then I can't recall this extreme of a difference before.

 

[Blueballer]

There was some poor shot selection but imo the larger issue was how ND could be called for 21 fouls and NC State only 9? Which impacted who could play and how they could play not to mention 16 more points from free throws.

I hate to complain about refs but then I can't recall this extreme of a difference before.

When you beat Stanford on Feb. 6 the fouls We’re 20-11 which was close.

 

[Ladeeeeda]

There was some poor shot selection but imo the larger issue was how ND could be called for 21 fouls and NC State only 9? Which impacted who could play and how they could play not to mention 16 more points from free throws.

I hate to complain about refs but then I can't recall this extreme of a difference before.

In Duke's loss to Louisville on Thursday.fouls were 22 (Duke) vs 11 (Louisville), free throws were 25 (L made 22) vs 4 (D made 4).
I"I'll have to look to see who the refs were......

 

[Frankus]

A few thoughts about the NC State loss:

We cannot stop talented bigs with Maddy Westbeld. I wonder what NI is going to do.

That was one clutch shot by Sonia. The offense needs to revolve more around her.

Hannah is in an outside shooting slump at the same time she slumped last year. NI has to make a decision whether to let her keep trying to shoot her way out of it.

OM is too much "show time" oriented. NI needs to put the breaks on that.

I've said before that NI needs to work the refs more. Wes Moore did and got rewarded.

If NC State can play like that every game they can beat anybody. Or, their big had a career game because we play a player at the 5 who can't defend a quality big. We'll see.

We have a big hole defensively. I hope it gets filled.

 

[FanInNC]

There was some poor shot selection but imo the larger issue was how ND could be called for 21 fouls and NC State only 9? Which impacted who could play and how they could play not to mention 16 more points from free throws.

I hate to complain about refs but then I can't recall this extreme of a difference before.

To be fair State shot 6 free throws in the final minute of regulation when ND was fouling on purpose and 6 more in the final minute of the 2nd over time when ND was down by multiple possessions and fouled. Thats 12 of the 26 attempts. Take those purposeful fouls away and it’s 14 to 10 on attempts.

State also leads the nation in fewest fouls. It’s part of Wes’s philosophy - they don’t press up on teams usually, typically play drop coverage, and he’s often quoted as saying they preach to let the other team make or miss a tough shot rather than give them 2 free throws.

Being at the game there was obviously some missed calls. In my red tinted glasses HH was very handsy and aggressive and yet went into the 4th quarter with 1 foul. Azaiah James left the game after knocking heads with king when king reached in for a steal that led to a lay up without a foul call. I feel like both coaches had things they could pick out they would want called the other way at times. But that’s pretty typical for every game.

At times I thought ND settled for a contested 3 they could have got at any point. I thought they should have tried to feature Citron and King more. Miles and HH are fantastic, but a few times it just looked like HH was trying to do too much. Kings quickness against Tilda could have been exploited more IMO.

It was a high level game in a raucous atmosphere and at the end of the day, if Olivia Miles doesn’t double dribble on a semi fast break up 2 with under a minute in over time, the Irish very likely win the game.

 

[Reypl21]

There was some poor shot selection but imo the larger issue was how ND could be called for 21 fouls and NC State only 9? Which impacted who could play and how they could play not to mention 16 more points from free throws.

I hate to complain about refs but then I can't recall this extreme of a difference before.

ND has a large portion of their fouls at the end of regulation and in the second OT. Aside from that the free throws weren't that uneven. Hannah gets away with a ton of contact playing defense, if those were all called she would have played way less. The fouls were hardly the issue.

The issue was coaching, gameplan, offense, whatever.. things that are in ND's control. For as bad as we played, we still could've won. That's promising. It is discouraging seeing Koval get 4 minutes in a game where the other freshman bug had a field day inside. We need her presence down low against teams with a good center. We let their young big look like an AA. Imagine when we actually face an AA center. I hope we don't matchup with Beers before the FF.

 

[HuskyNan]

ND has a large portion of their fouls at the end of regulation and in the second OT. Aside from that the free throws weren't that uneven. Hannah gets away with a ton of contact playing defense, if those were all called she would have played way less. The fouls were hardly the issue.

The issue was coaching, gameplan, offense, whatever.. things that are in ND's control. For as bad as we played, we still could've won. That's promising. It is discouraging seeing Koval get 4 minutes in a game where the other freshman bug had a field day inside. We need her presence down low against teams with a good center. We let their young big look like an AA. Imagine when we actually face an AA center. I hope we don't matchup with Beers before the FF.

ND was gassed late in regulation and in the OTs. Some fouls were due to fatigue

 

[DallasDomer]

When you beat Stanford on Feb. 6 the fouls We’re 20-11 which was close.

The score was 96-47 not the same kind of game.

 

[DallasDomer]

To be fair State shot 6 free throws in the final minute of regulation when ND was fouling on purpose and 6 more in the final minute of the 2nd over time when ND was down by multiple possessions and fouled. Thats 12 of the 26 attempts. Take those purposeful fouls away and it’s 14 to 10 on attempts.

State also leads the nation in fewest fouls. It’s part of Wes’s philosophy - they don’t press up on teams usually, typically play drop coverage, and he’s often quoted as saying they preach to let the other team make or miss a tough shot rather than give them 2 free throws.

Being at the game there was obviously some missed calls. In my red tinted glasses HH was very handsy and aggressive and yet went into the 4th quarter with 1 foul. Azaiah James left the game after knocking heads with king when king reached in for a steal that led to a lay up without a foul call. I feel like both coaches had things they could pick out they would want called the other way at times. But that’s pretty typical for every game.

At times I thought ND settled for a contested 3 they could have got at any point. I thought they should have tried to feature Citron and King more. Miles and HH are fantastic, but a few times it just looked like HH was trying to do too much. Kings quickness against Tilda could have been exploited more IMO.

It was a high level game in a raucous atmosphere and at the end of the day, if Olivia Miles doesn’t double dribble on a semi fast break up 2 with under a minute in over time, the Irish very likely win the game.

Why did NC State have 20 fouls in their loss to UNC? I wish there was a way to track home, away, refs, timing etc but I can't track the data. There's no doubt many of your points are true and there's no doubt the home crowd impacted players and refs. I've seen so many rotten calls going both ways by ACC refs I no longer think anyone gets a fair game especially in close games where a smaller number of calls can change the game.

I haven't watched enough other games to say whether it is the ACC or all conferences. Unfortunately I don't see any efforts by the ACC to resolve the problem and I know being a ref is a thankless under paid job, which is likely part of the problem. MLB uses a lot of immediate feedback and umps still miss calls because they are human. But baseball has a measurement system to improve, is there one for basketball? Not on any level to my knowledge.

Some say Ivey doesn't work the refs as well as Wes or others. To my mind no one should have to work them. They shouldn't need working. Another item I forgot, they were letting the teams get away with a lot in the first half but tightened up later. I think that's a problem too, call it both ways the same throughout. Someone else pointed out that going to the Unrivaled games broke the normal pattern and might have impacted the team, I don't know but I hope they don't do it again.

I'll quit now. This game will probably help ND in the long run. If they can come as close as they did vs all the factors the next game will be different, maybe they win maybe they don't but different.

 

[HuskyNan]

Why did NC State have 20 fouls in their loss to UNC? I wish there was a way to track home, away, refs, timing etc but I can't track the data. There's no doubt many of your points are true and there's no doubt the home crowd impacted players and refs. I've seen so many rotten calls going both ways by ACC refs I no longer think anyone gets a fair game especially in close games where a smaller number of calls can change the game.

I haven't watched enough other games to say whether it is the ACC or all conferences. Unfortunately I don't see any efforts by the ACC to resolve the problem and I know being a ref is a thankless under paid job, which is likely part of the problem. MLB uses a lot of immediate feedback and umps still miss calls because they are human. But baseball has a measurement system to improve, is there one for basketball? Not on any level to my knowledge.

Some say Ivey doesn't work the refs as well as Wes or others. To my mind no one should have to work them. They shouldn't need working. Another item I forgot, they were letting the teams get away with a lot in the first half but tightened up later. I think that's a problem too, call it both ways the same throughout. Someone else pointed out that going to the Unrivaled games broke the normal pattern and might have impacted the team, I don't know but I hope they don't do it again.

I'll quit now. This game will probably help ND in the long run. If they can come as close as they did vs all the factors the next game will be different, maybe they win maybe they don't but different.

The epitome of bad reffing happened a couple years ago to UConn. Two UConn players were going for a rebound, no opponents were close, and one Husky got called for fouling her own teammate. It was the strangest thing I’ve seen in a basketball game

 

[yhun89]

The epitome of bad reffing happened a couple years ago to UConn. Two UConn players were going for a rebound, no opponents were close, and one Husky got called for fouling her own teammate. It was the strangest thing I’ve seen in a basketball game

There was a similar call this season I believe, where a girl on another BE team got called for fouling her own teammate. Refs are strange.

 

[Blueballer]

The score was 96-47 not the same kind of game.

No because the foul discrepancy was in your favor that time. I see big foul discrepancies happen a lot. Of course it’s usually unjustified but generally the team that loses is the one that complains as opposed to when you win.

 

[FanInNC]

Why did NC State have 20 fouls in their loss to UNC? I wish there was a way to track home, away, refs, timing etc but I can't track the data. There's no doubt many of your points are true and there's no doubt the home crowd impacted players and refs. I've seen so many rotten calls going both ways by ACC refs I no longer think anyone gets a fair game especially in close games where a smaller number of calls can change the game.

I haven't watched enough other games to say whether it is the ACC or all conferences. Unfortunately I don't see any efforts by the ACC to resolve the problem and I know being a ref is a thankless under paid job, which is likely part of the problem. MLB uses a lot of immediate feedback and umps still miss calls because they are human. But baseball has a measurement system to improve, is there one for basketball? Not on any level to my knowledge.

Some say Ivey doesn't work the refs as well as Wes or others. To my mind no one should have to work them. They shouldn't need working. Another item I forgot, they were letting the teams get away with a lot in the first half but tightened up later. I think that's a problem too, call it both ways the same throughout. Someone else pointed out that going to the Unrivaled games broke the normal pattern and might have impacted the team, I don't know but I hope they don't do it again.

I'll quit now. This game will probably help ND in the long run. If they can come as close as they did vs all the factors the next game will be different, maybe they win maybe they don't but different.

Well as a State fan I’m obligated to say the refs are always on the side of UNC.

I can’t answer why it was the case in reality. Thats the most fouls State has had called on them all season, and the final one cost them the game. They average 11 fouls per game and nearly doubled that number in that game without ever fouling on purpose in a late game situation.

8 fouls were called on State’s freshman bigs that game (Awou had 4 in 4 minutes!) UNC was actively posting up their 5 and there was a lot of jockeying for position down there. That was not the case against ND. I don’t recall a ND player posting up once all game. So perhaps that’s part of the reason, totally different styles of offense being run.

I agree that no should have to work the refs. And I also agree that refs in college women’s basketball are on another level of bad at times compared to the men’s.

I’d be very nervous to play ND again on a neutral court, I doubt the Irish shoot so poorly from 3 again next time and without the home court advantage it will take a special effort to beat yall again. Ultimately this loss won’t hurt ND. Still will win the regular season conference and still on pace for a 1 seed in the big dance.

 

[LETTERL]

There was some poor shot selection but imo the larger issue was how ND could be called for 21 fouls and NC State only 9? Which impacted who could play and how they could play not to mention 16 more points from free throws.

I hate to complain about refs but then I can't recall this extreme of a difference before.

State was constantly in attack mode while Hidalgo and Miles, the main ball handlers and shooters, settled mostly for long jump shots and THREEs. There was little need for State to try fouling on those long shots until Notre Dame showed they could make them reliably...and they didn't yesterday.

 

[Reypl21]

ND was gassed late in regulation and in the OTs. Some fouls were due to fatigue

I agree they were really gassed. Thought Koval and Prosper could've helped out more either in regulation second half or in either OTs.

 

[Dillon77]

My eldest son and I attended the U.S. National Indoor Championships on Staten Island, which was exactly at the same time as the ND game. I had "taped" it and watched in late afternoon after the meet. Had no idea about the outcome but did note the game was way longer than two hours so it gave me an idea that this was no ordinary game. Caught the post-game Ivey presser, as well.

Wide range of responses, impressions, suggestions, etc. on McGraw's Bench and here. I'll comment on a few things that linger with me and note what could be done going forward.

- Starting with the obvious, ND is still in control of its ACC and overall seeding destiny, They're still one of the best teams in the country -- it took a very, very good NC State team -- which probably played its best game all year (at home) -- to pull off the upset. (Shooting near-perfect free throws until the end certainly helped.)

As former ND player and Ivey teammate, Kelly Siemon Dayo inferred on "Nothing But Net" afterwards, no coach want to lose, but if you do, this one wasn't a bad one. It will give an opportunity for a reset. And the loss doesn't end a season.
Heck, if ND hit a few more wide open three's, they probably win this game in regulation. But all power to the Wolfpack.

Going forward: For the players, the loss should sting. The coaches will/should use this to get ready for FSU and Louisville.

- Ivey thought the shot selection could've been a lot better at times and the ball was turned over at crucial times.
Plus, one thread noted our end of quarter plays largely get down to Hannah or Olivia trying to create, mostly without success.

Thoughts:

• During games, I'd like to see Coach Ivey use a few more time outs to settle the team and suggest some sets or variations that could work. I know she loves to give our guards freedom, but everyone can use some guidance at times. It's different, but I sat in front of area where the long jumpers' coaches stood. After every attempt, jumpers and coaches would meet -- sometimes showing the jump on computer or sometimes just talking. If Ivey and staff that needs fixing or see something....use the TO.
• Planning. I'm still stymied as to how/why Maddy Westbeld is not being used as the key high-screen setter after being a weapon last year with Hannah. She sets a great screen and knows how to roll or pop to an open area for a jumper. It's simply not King's strength. Westbeld needs to get into rhythm shooting-wise or this kind of upset could happen.

- Halftime changes. This is the second time against NC-based schools (Duke, too) that Sonia had a slow first half and it was obvious plans were made for her to let loose in the second: Citron went into aggressive mold by herself and with assists from screens.
Thought: In a similar vein, why not tinker to get the ball to Westbeld? It's a waste of a resource.

- The whole Koval-Westbeld-King Thing. I have learned to appreciate King more and more, Not only does she have quickness and perfect timing on the boards, she has strong hands to keep the ball. And her timing on going back up against smaller NC State guards yesterday was excellent.
However, I's still not sure ND is utilizing these three individual talents to maximize collective talent.

• NC State played four guards yesterday so it behooved Ivey to keep King in to guard one of them if the Irish played man.
• But Koval could've been used to clog the middle against the drives and keep Trygger (who went 8-9) from shooting layups. Maddy's not tall enough to guard lob passes. Kate is.

Thoughts: Be open to playing the combination that works against specific teams. FSU is not a tall team either, so defensive match-ups will be key and ND's height could come in very handy.

- On the positive end, I think Soni Citron is playing her best overall basketball of the year at the right time and Liatu King is superb now, too. Just need to get the shot selection (the "I/We" equilibrium) a bit more in sync to utilize collective strengths. Plus, play Koval more.