Notre Dame 2023-24 Season (merged)

[Dillon77]

38 minutes in first game back? Sounds like a questionable decision to me.

Not going to contest you on that and I'm, ahem, obviously a Domer fan. Ivey can't help herself when it comes to having Soni in, even when Maddy Westbeld is available. However, I thought 24-25 minutes would be the max she'd go that game....

ND has BC on Thursday and Miami on Sunday. Stay tuned.

The Irish will lose three grad students next year (DeWolfe, Obinma, Brown) next year and could lose a number of seniors (Westbeld, Marshall, Watson, Cernugel). Right now they only have Kate Koval coming into the fray. Given all the injuries this year, I suspect they're: 1) pushing very hard for Mackenly Randolph to come to ND in 2024; and, 2) should be looking hard at the portal to get them to the Class of 2025.

 

[Reypl21]

She’ll be 22 in January 2025 and eligible for the WNBA. She might not care about losing a year of eligibility.

I tend to agree. I think she will go to the WNBA in 2025, which is the correct timeline for her 2021 class (remember she was an early enrollee in January 2020). I don't think she'll use the extra year, but I still can't see her coming back this year. She has said that she is in no rush, and wants to be completely healthy.

 

[DallasDomer]

38 minutes in first game back? Sounds like a questionable decision to me.

I guess if you're desperate you do crazy things. If she's out next game it was a bad decision if she plays her typical game with a bit more energy it was a good decision. But either way I'm not going to second guess Coach Ivey, the training staff, and Sonia herself.

 

[DefenseBB]

Re Citron 38 minutes-ND only had 7 healthy players dressed for the game so I am not sure Niele had many options especially with how good Sonia is but yes, that is a LOT of minutes for the 1st game back.

Miles is a wonderful player and when healthy, a valid and probable All-American candidate, however, Ms. Hildago has been superb in her absence. To me, the issues have been zero supporting cast for hera as Sonia Citron has been out for a significant portion and despite Maddy Westbeld missing Sunday, the ND Front-court rotation has not been as strong as needed to truly do damage. This team is flawed in the frontcourt and until those issues are fixed, ND will struggle against other TOP 25 programs.

 

[DallasDomer]

Re Citron 38 minutes-ND only had 7 healthy players dressed for the game so I am not sure Niele had many options especially with how good Sonia is but yes, that is a LOT of minutes for the 1st game back.

Miles is a wonderful player and when healthy, a valid and probable All-American candidate, however, Ms. Hildago has been superb in her absence. To me, the issues have been zero supporting cast for hera as Sonia Citron has been out for a significant portion and despite Maddy Westbeld missing Sunday, the ND Front-court rotation has not been as strong as needed to truly do damage. This team is flawed in the frontcourt and until those issues are fixed, ND will struggle against other TOP 25 programs.

Without Westbeld and Prosper the front court is challenged and can't seem to get into an efficient rhythm. If they come back they draw coverage away from Watson and Marshall plus having the team they are used to helps everyone. But the front court alone doesn't win the big games, the team does. There are very few teams with outstanding players at every position. Write ND off if you want but that's your call.

 

[Dillon77]

Without Westbeld and Prosper the front court is challenged and can't seem to get into an efficient rhythm. If they come back they draw coverage away from Watson and Marshall plus having the team they are used to helps everyone. But the front court alone doesn't win the big games, the team does. There are very few teams with outstanding players at every position. Write ND off if you want but that's your call.

ND received bravura performances from fifth-year centers the last two seasons (Maya Dodson, Lauren Ebo), who heretofore had not been known for the level of scoring and rebounding they showed prior to those years. Had everything clicked? Received good coaching? Working in the right system? Yes, across the board. But then, what's different with Watson this year, even compared to the second half of last regular season? That would be no Olivia Miles. Miles is an absolutely superb floor general who could get the ball to Dodson, Ebo and Watson where they could best capitalize on it. And, right there with her, was Citron, who also knows the value of a good dish in the right place.

Hidalgo has matched (and then some) Miles in scoring and even rebounding to some degree (not to mention swipes. However, it takes some time to get the intricacies of half-court movement down.

Not sure Miles is coming back at this point and the walking boot Cass Prosper is in concerns me. In addition to individual technical skills, Citron and Westbeld bring a level of I/We to the mix and makes sure the team plays better. It would be even better if Miles was here, but I'll take what we can get with Soni and Maddy, teaming up with Hannah, Anna & crew.

 

[Dillon77]

ND Beats BC 98-48 in South Bend

Maddy Westbeld returns after one game and has a 15 pt/15 rebound night, while Hidalgo goes for 27 pts. and 10 rebounds.
KK Bransford with 13 and Sonia Citron, Anna DeWolfe and Kylee Watson all score 11.

First time Irish have started Hidalgo-DeWolfe-Citron-Westbeld-Watson since the Northwestern game in early November during which Citron was hurt. Still getting the kinks out, but rounding back into form. Miami up next on Sunday in South Bend.

 

[DallasDomer]

ND Beats BC 98-48 in South Bend

Maddy Westbeld returns after one game and has a 15 pt/15 rebound night, while Hidalgo goes for 27 pts. and 10 rebounds.
KK Bransford with 13 and Sonia Citron, Anna DeWolfe and Kylee Watson all score 11.

First time Irish have started Hidalgo-DeWolfe-Citron-Westbeld-Watson since the Northwestern game in early November during which Citron was hurt. Still getting the kinks out, but rounding back into form. Miami up next on Sunday in South Bend.

Watson was much better with Westbeld on the floor to feed her and open space. She's not the next Ruth Riley but if she catches cleanly her spin move is excellent.

Still too many turnovers but that goes for the whole team. There's a need to push the ball but there's also pushing too far. The silly drops are what must stop then once the balance point is reached I'll quit complaining. Next up Miami who lost to BC by 4 so it's a winnable game.

 

[Dillon77]

Watson was much better with Westbeld on the floor to feed her and open space. She's not the next Ruth Riley but if she catches cleanly her spin move is excellent.

Still too many turnovers but that goes for the whole team. There's a need to push the ball but there's also pushing too far. The silly drops are what must stop then once the balance point is reached I'll quit complaining. Next up Miami who lost to BC by 4 so it's a winnable game.

I brought this up on Romper Room during the game and The Bench afterwards: yes, there were a lot of turnovers, but 11 of the 19 were in the first half (6 or 7 in the first quarter alone). In the second half, that number dropped to 8 (still a tinge too much), but the Irish also had 14 assists.

For me, a number of the first-quarter T/O's had to do with forcing the issue down low, but Maddy and crew got better at reading BC's swarming defense as the game went on. As you noted, ND is always going to push the envelope on the break and I recall a few Anna/Hannah passes sailing over the end line like askew field goal attempts. Can take a few of those.....BC wasn't coming back at that point.

This personnel grouping is the one I saw at NJIT -- plus KK, who played one of her best gams of the year -- so I think they'll be fine against Miami once they get a read on the Hurricanes.

 

[Frankus]

Pretty lackluster win vs Miami, with a very sloppy 4th quarter. A win’s a win though.

Soni doesn’t appear 100% healthy movement-wise, but the team is still better with her on the floor.

Westbeld really struggled finishing around the rim. She’s better as a mid range jumper player, but the team is better rotating Watson/Marshall. So, she’s got to finish around the bucket better if we’re going to beat better teams.

It’s too bad we don’t have another guard to spell Hidalgo /DeWolfe. Bransford is a slightly more agile version of Westbeld, but isn’t a guard who can keep the pace of Hidalgo/DeWolfe.

Marshall has a decent midrange jumper, but like all ND players except Hidalgo, struggles to finish at the rim.

DeWolfe is an assassin at the free throw line. Her outside shot appears to be declining, perhaps due to the heavy minutes she has to play.

Thankfully, Hidalgo is a consistent star. This team would be in trouble without her.

 

[DallasDomer]

Pretty lackluster win vs Miami, with a very sloppy 4th quarter. A win’s a win though.

Soni doesn’t appear 100% healthy movement-wise, but the team is still better with her on the floor.

Westbeld really struggled finishing around the rim. She’s better as a mid range jumper player, but the team is better rotating Watson/Marshall. So, she’s got to finish around the bucket better if we’re going to beat better teams.

It’s too bad we don’t have another guard to spell Hidalgo /DeWolfe. Bransford is a slightly more agile version of Westbeld, but isn’t a guard who can keep the pace of Hidalgo/DeWolfe.

Marshall has a decent midrange jumper, but like all ND players except Hidalgo, struggles to finish at the rim.

DeWolfe is an assassin at the free throw line. Her outside shot appears to be declining, perhaps due to the heavy minutes she has to play.

Thankfully, Hidalgo is a consistent star. This team would be in trouble without her.

I'm wondering if the mask bothered Westbeld. It didn't last game but I recall Jackie Young tearing it off during a game.

Suppose it could have just been a bad shooting game. Even Hidalgo was 9-19! Bad shooting sometimes seems like a disease that spreads quickly as does good shooting.

 

[Frankus]

I'm wondering if the mask bothered Westbeld. It didn't last game but I recall Jackie Young tearing it off during a game.

Suppose it could have just been a bad shooting game. Even Hidalgo was 9-19! Bad shooting sometimes seems like a disease that spreads quickly as does good shooting.

She said it didn’t bother her at the BC post game press conference, but could be. We need someone to score inside and she’s our best bet.

 

[Dillon77]

She said it didn’t bother her at the BC post game press conference, but could be. We need someone to score inside and she’s our best bet.

@DallasDomer

Some information for you and some thoughts on your posts:

- Coach Carlos Knox was interviewed post-game and said Maddy was bothered in shooting in this game. No, it didn't seem to bother her against BC but each game is different. Maybe the condensation was worse? I remember Jackie Young going through this in 2018 when she had a nose injury and eventually dumped the mask.

- Maddy doesn't go 2-14 unless something is bothering her.

- A win is a win, particularly against a team that is trying to make you play ugly, which is what Coach Katie does at Miami.
She's always tried/tries to discombobulate ND's downhill attack and the half-court offense.

- Sure, it wasn't smooth, but the Irish also slowed Miami down, causing a huge amount of turnovers.

- Lastly, this team is rounding back into form and I, for one, have the patience to let them do so. Players are relearning their roles and some are getting back into form. I think KK Bransford is one of those. She was asked, coming off an injury, to do a litany of things to make up for (fill in the blank) no Soni, no Cass Prosper, even no Maddy. She'll get back doing what she can do which is being a primarily inside-out guard. A bulkier version of Anaya Peoples, who hits her free throws.

-

 

[Dillon77]

Hidalgo Continues To Win ACC Rookie of Week Awards

...after performances versus Boston College, Miami

 

[DefenseBB]

The good news is since the loss at home to UNC, the Irish have rallied nicely and helped by the return of Maddy Westbeld. To be fair the blowout was against BC (NET 80) and an ok if not overrated Miami team. This is the soft part of the Domers schedule so they do need to rake hay here (UVA, WF, Home against Syracuse in the payback game). Then at 10,167 screaming UConn fans and the 2004/2014 Title teams at Gampel. Then 2 more patsies in Georgia Tech and Pitt, then a murderers row of ACC teams-@Louisville, @FSU, NC State, @Duke then Clemson and BC before ending with Virginia Tech and Louisville.
My point is, the best win that ND currently has is NET 44 Miami, so this team is still largely untested. Losses to NET 36/45 do not help ND. Losing To #1 SC is perfectly logical and acceptable.
This team is good on paper even without Miles and they do have the FOY in Hildago (yes, she’s better than Watkins and the games score stats prove it, by a lot). They just have to beat a few teams inside the top 25 NETto justify their #11 NET.

 

[triaddukefan]

Hidalgo Continues To Win ACC Rookie of Week Awards

...after performances versus Boston College, Miami

No offense, but... I'm tired of her winning this award.

 

[GoChips20]

I’ve seen enough from Hidalgo at this point to believe she’s Notre Dame’s #1 option regardless of who they do and don’t have playing. For as incredibly gifted and fun to watch as Miles is, Hidalgo is just as good a rebounder and a more dynamic scorer.

It might be salt in the wound for ND fans right now, but the Irish are a full healthy season away from a Final Four run or better. Outside of maybe UConn, there’s not a team in the land with a better backcourt trio.

 

[DallasDomer]

The good news is since the loss at home to UNC, the Irish have rallied nicely and helped by the return of Maddy Westbeld. To be fair the blowout was against BC (NET 80) and an ok if not overrated Miami team. This is the soft part of the Domers schedule so they do need to rake hay here (UVA, WF, Home against Syracuse in the payback game). Then at 10,167 screaming UConn fans and the 2004/2014 Title teams at Gampel. Then 2 more patsies in Georgia Tech and Pitt, then a murderers row of ACC teams-@Louisville, @FSU, NC State, @Duke then Clemson and BC before ending with Virginia Tech and Louisville.
My point is, the best win that ND currently has is NET 44 Miami, so this team is still largely untested. Losses to NET 36/45 do not help ND. Losing To #1 SC is perfectly logical and acceptable.
This team is good on paper even without Miles and they do have the FOY in Hildago (yes, she’s better than Watkins and the games score stats prove it, by a lot). They just have to beat a few teams inside the top 25 NETto justify their #11 NET.

Actually the NET is a calculation based on games played by each team. There is no justifying a NET ranking it just is. And ND's current NET is #11 not 14 but it changes daily so this is my basis:

DI Women's Basketball Rankings - NCAA Women's Basketball NET Rankings | NCAA.com

Get NCAA women's college basketball rankings from the Associated Press, USA Today/WBCA and NCAA committee.

www.ncaa.com

 

[Dillon77]

I’ve seen enough from Hidalgo at this point to believe she’s Notre Dame’s #1 option regardless of who they do and don’t have playing. For as incredibly gifted and fun to watch as Miles is, Hidalgo is just as good a rebounder and a more dynamic scorer.

It might be salt in the wound for ND fans right now, but the Irish are a full healthy season away from a Final Four run or better. Outside of maybe UConn, there’s not a team in the land with a better backcourt trio.

Re: your paragraph. First, I'm a big believer in Hidalgo and luckily have had the chance to see her in person at the high school and, now, the collegiate level. What's amazing is that she plays with enthusiasm and competence at such a tender age and exudes enjoyment. Great combination.

ND's forwards and centers can do a good job of boxing out other team's bigs, which is one reason why Hidalgo, Citron, Bransford and Miles grab so many rebounds on defense. Miles, who has long arms on top of her 5'11" height, was very adept at this. Hidalgo is a more adept scorer but Miles' strongest element is the reason why she'll take over the point upon her return: passing. Miles has the ability to get the ball to a person not just in the right area, but where that person can get her best shot off, whether on a break or in half-court sets.
I think it separates her from the vast majority of other PG's.

Re: your second paragraph. No salt in the wound. I was dubious about 'Liv coming back this year and if the Irish enter February without her, I wouldn't bother. You're right: the Irish would bring back Miles, Hidalgo and Citron to start, with KK Bransford and Emma Risch. Plus, Kate Koval is joining them inside, who will benefit from playing with all of them. (Apparently, Maddy Westbeld is still undecided about whether to use her Covid year...)

 

[Frankus]

I’ve seen enough from Hidalgo at this point to believe she’s Notre Dame’s #1 option regardless of who they do and don’t have playing. For as incredibly gifted and fun to watch as Miles is, Hidalgo is just as good a rebounder and a more dynamic scorer.

It might be salt in the wound for ND fans right now, but the Irish are a full healthy season away from a Final Four run or better. Outside of maybe UConn, there’s not a team in the land with a better backcourt trio.

As good as a point guard HH, Miles is better. She sees the court better and is a better distributor. When Miles comes back I think HH will be in many more favorable situations to score.

While I agree with Dillon above that our bigs focus on blocking out. They do a poor job of ball recognition to go and grab the rebound after the blockout.

 

[Dillon77]

As good as a point guard HH, Miles is better. She sees the court better and is a better distributor. When Miles comes back I think HH will be in many more favorable situations to score.

While I agree with Dillon above that our bigs focus on blocking out. They do a poor job of ball recognition to go and grab the rebound after the blockout.

When you refer to "bigs," who are you referring to? Centers? Forwards?
Maddy Westbeld, ND's starting forward, is the third-leading rebounder in the ACC, tied with Alyssa Ustby of UNC, at 9.6 rpg. I think she's upped her rebounding game in the absence of Ebo and Dodson, grabbing the ball more like she did frosh year.

Are you referring to Kylee Watson and Nat Marshall? If so, I could be able to see what you mean, particularly with Watson, who does block out her opponent, but often doesn't snare the rebound. Still, the two of them collectively grab 9.1 rebounds per game.

Collectively, it's a strange mixed bag: ND is fourth at grabbing rebounds, but third in giving them up. They're fifth in grabbing defensive rebounds, but third in offensive rebounds, which shows they do have ball (and/or space) recognition. And after all of that, they're #1 in rebounding margin, just over NC State.

Many Irish fans were frustrated with Syracuse and Pitt forwards grabbing offensive rebounds during those games. Whether that's ball recognition, where the player is, playing zone or just not quickly enough, who knows? ND will play both Pitt and 'Cuse again, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out. Plus, Having Citron back -- who just tidies everything up for the Irish -- will help.

I

 

[DallasDomer]

When you refer to "bigs," who are you referring to? Centers? Forwards?
Maddy Westbeld, ND's starting forward, is the third-leading rebounder in the ACC, tied with Alyssa Ustby of UNC, at 9.6 rpg. I think she's upped her rebounding game in the absence of Ebo and Dodson, grabbing the ball more like she did frosh year.

Are you referring to Kylee Watson and Nat Marshall? If so, I could be able to see what you mean, particularly with Watson, who does block out her opponent, but often doesn't snare the rebound. Still, the two of them collectively grab 9.1 rebounds per game.

Collectively, it's a strange mixed bag: ND is fourth at grabbing rebounds, but third in giving them up. They're fifth in grabbing defensive rebounds, but third in offensive rebounds, which shows they do have ball (and/or space) recognition. And after all of that, they're #1 in rebounding margin, just over NC State.

Many Irish fans were frustrated with Syracuse and Pitt forwards grabbing offensive rebounds during those games. Whether that's ball recognition, where the player is, playing zone or just not quickly enough, who knows? ND will play both Pitt and 'Cuse again, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out. Plus, Having Citron back -- who just tidies everything up for the Irish -- will help.

I

The two problems at Syracuse that ND had were Latham 5 Oreb, 7 Dreb and Wood 5&5. Wood increased her rebounds from 3 to ~8 this year and Latham is a Freshman. So Syracuse has done something to focus on rebounding.

Maddy got 3&7 but that's just an average performance for her. Watson and Bransford got near their averages as well.

If I ignore the refs, which is hard for me to do because they were true homers, I think it wasn't rebounding that cost ND the game but shooting % was just a bit low (45% vs 47%) that was enough to give Syracuse a 5 PT win. Who do you want to blame for that? Well Bransford was 2-8 and Marshall 2-6. Which moves the blame from the Watson Westbeld bigs to a guard and a high post. (I admit I ignored the turnovers which would swing blame back to W&W but Syracuse knew they could get away with anything and no foul would be called. So I just can't ignore the refs, sorry.)

 

[Dillon77]

The two problems at Syracuse that ND had were Latham 5 Oreb, 7 Dreb and Wood 5&5. Wood increased her rebounds from 3 to ~8 this year and Latham is a Freshman. So Syracuse has done something to focus on rebounding.

Maddy got 3&7 but that's just an average performance for her. Watson and Bransford got near their averages as well.

If I ignore the refs, which is hard for me to do because they were true homers, I think it wasn't rebounding that cost ND the game but shooting % was just a bit low (45% vs 47%) that was enough to give Syracuse a 5 PT win. Who do you want to blame for that? Well Bransford was 2-8 and Marshall 2-6. Which moves the blame from the Watson Westbeld bigs to a guard and a high post. (I admit I ignored the turnovers which would swing blame back to W&W but Syracuse knew they could get away with anything and no foul would be called. So I just can't ignore the refs, sorry.)

Syracuse is a tough place to play for a variety or reasons, but most players/coaches cite the fact that you're shooting in a multi-purpose stadium and there's a lot of air (space) there. Depth perception difficulty?

As for refs, I hear you . When I learned the sport of soccer, I took courses and got my licenses in both coaching and...reffing. I only reffed when our town leagues were short, but the reasons I took it was to learn the game and realize what a ref goes through (and what calls may/may not matter in the end game). It helped me focus (a bit) on the things I might control. Of course, we had not replay options, so a lot of ref-interaction was to "advise" what to look for....

 

[Frankus]

When you refer to "bigs," who are you referring to? Centers? Forwards?
Maddy Westbeld, ND's starting forward, is the third-leading rebounder in the ACC, tied with Alyssa Ustby of UNC, at 9.6 rpg. I think she's upped her rebounding game in the absence of Ebo and Dodson, grabbing the ball more like she did frosh year.

Are you referring to Kylee Watson and Nat Marshall? If so, I could be able to see what you mean, particularly with Watson, who does block out her opponent, but often doesn't snare the rebound. Still, the two of them collectively grab 9.1 rebounds per game.

Collectively, it's a strange mixed bag: ND is fourth at grabbing rebounds, but third in giving them up. They're fifth in grabbing defensive rebounds, but third in offensive rebounds, which shows they do have ball (and/or space) recognition. And after all of that, they're #1 in rebounding margin, just over NC State.

Many Irish fans were frustrated with Syracuse and Pitt forwards grabbing offensive rebounds during those games. Whether that's ball recognition, where the player is, playing zone or just not quickly enough, who knows? ND will play both Pitt and 'Cuse again, so it will be interesting to see how that plays out. Plus, Having Citron back -- who just tidies everything up for the Irish -- will help.

I

I’m talking about Watson and Marshall as the bigs.

I agree that Citron brings quickness which will help with rebounding going forward. I wish Westbeld could be more of a mid range perimeter player for her future, but we need her to be inside more and rebound.

 

[VA Huskie]

Syracuse is a tough place to play for a variety or reasons, but most players/coaches cite the fact that you're shooting in a multi-purpose stadium and there's a lot of air (space) there. Depth perception difficulty?

As for refs, I hear you . When I learned the sport of soccer, I took courses and got my licenses in both coaching and...reffing. I only reffed when our town leagues were short, but the reasons I took it was to learn the game and realize what a ref goes through (and what calls may/may not matter in the end game). It helped me focus (a bit) on the things I might control. Of course, we had not replay options, so a lot of ref-interaction was to "advise" what to look for....

Dillon, I’m interested in what you thought of the refs in the UVA/ND game on Thursday. It was an ugly game (I was there), but the refs seemed to be very inconsistent. I think ND had over 40 foul shots, seemingly missing multiple ND fouls. But I’m biased. Would appreciate your thoughts.
BTW, Citron was easily the best player on the floor. HH was good, but didn’t overly impress me.