Northwestern players win right to unionize

[G0UCONN]

If this ruling stands --- it is the beginning of the end of college sports as we know it.

Awful and wrong ruling.

 

[UConnDan97]

I don't want to jump in on either side of the debate because I want to see where this thing goes and what shape it takes. However, I find it hilarious that some of you have said that you "are done with college sports" if it happens. Like hell you are! I'll see you here 5 years from now, no matter what happens...

 

[uconntailgater]

I don't want to jump in on either side of the debate because I want to see where this thing goes and what shape it takes. However, I find it hilarious that some of you have said that you "are done with college sports" if it happens. Like hell you are! I'll see you here 5 years from now, no matter what happens...

This is a showstopper for me. I have battled unions and have seen the destruction they have caused in the Northeast and the Rust Belt states for 20 plus years. I have been physically assaulted, threatened, spat at, had vehicles egged, tires slashed, and have been prevented from entering facilities due to erroneous picket lines. I have seen their actions add up to thousands and thousands of dollars of additional cost to my customers due to her arcane rules and regulations. I have been escorted out of many facilities for violating the most minor union rules, thus costing the customer and companies thousands of additional dollars. I have seen them protect the worst of the worst of employees have no business being employed. There is a reason heavily unionized Northeastern and Rust Belt states are losing population. I really enjoy watching college football. I already cut the cable cord because of what ESPN (I'm from Bristol ) has done to us concerning our conference realignment situation. I won't support ESPN why we are in conference purgatory. I simply will not support college football if it goes to a union pay system. Student athletes receive tens of thousands of dollars a year in compensation in the form of tuition, room and board, full medical, academic support, and numerous other benefits. I have no problem with student athletes receipt of a small stipend. Everything that unions get involved with they simply destroy. It's no surprise this started in Chicago.

 

[UConnDan97]

This is a showstopper for me. I have battled unions and have seen the destruction they have caused in the Northeast and the Rust Belt states for 20 plus years. I have been physically assaulted, threatened, spat at, had vehicles egged, tires slashed, and have been prevented from entering facilities due to erroneous picket lines. I have seen their actions add up to thousands and thousands of dollars of additional cost to my customers due to her arcane rules and regulations. I have been escorted out of many facilities for violating the most minor union rules, thus costing the customer and companies thousands of additional dollars. I have seen them protect the worst of the worst of employees have no business being employed. There is a reason heavily unionized Northeastern and Rust Belt states are losing population. I really enjoy watching college football. I already cut the cable cord because of what ESPN (I'm from Bristol ) has done to us concerning our conference realignment situation. I won't support ESPN why we are in conference purgatory. I simply will not support college football if it goes to a union pay system. Student athletes receive tens of thousands of dollars a year in compensation in the form of tuition, room and board, full medical, academic support, and numerous other benefits. I have no problem with student athletes receipt of a small stipend. Everything that unions get involved with they simply destroy. It's no surprise this started in Chicago.

Wow. Where to begin....well, I guess let me just say this: if you are a big UConn fan (which both your name and your presence on a UConn internet chat site suggest), then I will be shocked if you aren't back after finding out that the kids are getting a 2k or 3k stipend. Literally shocked. I mean, for , grad students in the chemistry department get a free education AND about a 20k stipend (with TA duties), and THEY CAN'T EVEN ZONE BLOCK!!!

EDIT: Just in case people don't believe me about grad TA's getting a free education and a $20,000 stipend:
http://chemistry.uconn.edu/graduate/financial-aid.html

 

[ecasadoSBU]

I don't mind labor unions. Its the only way for the little people, the worker, the producer to fight for their share of the pie vs. the top which has money and power to influence just about everything in their favor. Unless you are a business owner, a big time executive, or wealthy individual I don't see how you can honestly go against labor unions.

The college athletics problem is representative of the bigger problem that this country is currently facing: Those at the top of the pyramid care very little about giving a fair share to those at the bottom, yet they fail to realize that the success of those at the top largely depends on the success of the majority at the bottom. money gets recycled and ends at the top again eventually, so wtf is the big deal?

Give the student-athletes a fair share and the game will continue to thrive and make everyone richer. Resist and avoid change and the athletes may bring the entire system down.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

Wow. Where to begin....well, I guess let me just say this: if you are a big UConn fan (which both your name and your presence on a UConn internet chat site suggest), then I will be shocked if you aren't back after finding out that the kids are getting a 2k or 3k stipend. Literally shocked. I mean, for , grad students in the chemistry department get a free education AND about a 20k stipend (with TA duties), and THEY CAN'T EVEN ZONE BLOCK!!!

EDIT: Just in case people don't believe me about grad TA's getting a free education and a $20,000 stipend:
http://chemistry.uconn.edu/graduate/financial-aid.html

I don't know if I should laugh or cry. The fact that a Chemistry TA is compared to a basketball player who after all plays game for nothing more than entertainment of others results in mixed emotions. I know the system values money above all (an a Uconn baller probably brings in a lot more money than that Chemistry TA) but the contributions of Chemistry as a science and as an academic field at the University should not be compared to collegiate athletics. Lets not make those comparisons please

 

[UConnDan97]

I don't know if I should laugh or cry. The fact that a Chemistry TA is compared to a basketball player who after all plays game for nothing more than entertainment results in mixed emotions. I know the system values money above all (an a Uconn baller probably brings in a lot more money than that Chemistry TA) but the contributions of Chemistry as a science and as an academic field at the University should not be compared to collegiate athletics. Lets not make those comparisons please

Settle down, killer. I'm a product of UConn Chemistry, so don't pretend to lecture me on the.....well, on the lecturers. The comparison was made in order to show others that a stipend ON TOP of a free education is not a foreign concept. In fact, it's standard for most graduate programs across the country. And the research efforts of a first-year chemistry grad do not amount to crap. Literally. (and I won't go into a rant about the fact that undergraduates are paying tuition to be instructed by professors, not kids who just got done reading "English for Dummies").

The chemistry grad student's skill is chemistry. The football player's (or basketball player, etc.) skill is on the field. Both work toward the enrichment of the university. A stipend is NOT that weird of an idea, whether someone agrees with it or not...

 

[Dizzy21]

I don't mind labor unions. Its the only way for the little people, the worker, the producer to fight for their share of the pie vs. the top which has money and power to influence just about everything in their favor. Unless you are a business owner, a big time executive, or wealthy individual I don't see how you can honestly go against labor unions.

The college athletics problem is representative of the bigger problem that this country is currently facing: Those at the top of the pyramid care very little about giving a fair share to those at the bottom, yet they fail to realize that the success of those at the top largely depends on the success of the majority at the bottom. money gets recycled and ends at the top again eventually, so wtf is the big deal?

Give the student-athletes a fair share and the game will continue to thrive and make everyone richer. Resist and avoid change and the athletes may bring the entire system down.

What if I'm a poor person, not in a union and have to pay 20% more for all my union made products? Would I still support the union? Not saying I support or don't support unions, that's not an easy argument for now, but certainly one could easily make the argument that not only do big executives suffer, but everyone who is not in the union may be paying a cost for the unions' benefit, in fact, one could easily argue that the only ones who benefit are those who belong to the union.

I also fail to understand how universities are getting rich off of the football players? Is there a magic executive making tons of bonus money from the University making a ton of money off of football? In fact, quite the opposite, doesn't a lot of the money basically go to fund sports that would not be supported otherwise, and other student activities?

 

[zls44]

Unions arguably being out of control over the last 50 years does nothing to change the fact that they unequivocally have helped improve the lives of every single working-class American in every walk of life.

Indiana football/basketball generates $40 million in TV revenue, once the new Big Ten deal is done. Hell yes, the athletes who are the reason absolutely deserve AT LEAST a stipend.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

What if I'm a poor person, not in a union and have to pay 20% more for all my union made products? Would I still support the union? Not saying I support or don't support unions, that's not an easy argument for now, but certainly one could easily make the argument that not only do big executives suffer, but everyone who is not in the union may be paying a cost for the unions' benefit, in fact, one could easily argue that the only ones who benefit are those who belong to the union.

I also fail to understand how universities are getting rich off of the football players? Is there a magic executive making tons of bonus money from the University making a ton of money off of football? In fact, quite the opposite, doesn't a lot of the money basically go to fund sports that would not be supported otherwise, and other student activities?

Simple solution (not really...). Every employee should advocate for a union at their workplace so you can also get a 20% boost in your salary by cutting from the ever growing profit margins your employer keeps. there should be absolutely no reason why working class and middle class Americans fight against and ridicule one another for participating in a labor union. Its like they are fighting against each other when they should all be fighting for a unified cause against the widening gap between the "haves" and the "have nots". There is a ton of money in America still, the problem is that it is staying more and more at the top. Corporations and wealthy individuals never stop bargaining (lobbying) for their interest, why should middle class and poor americans do so?

I work in the private sector, no union, but I'm not foolish to bash MTA employees, and other public sector unionized employees. If anything I should be fighting to be like them

 

[BlueMAB]

IMO, giving the players a stipend and allowing the athletes to unionize are two different discussions. The former could work, the latter will probably end college sports as we know it. Because whatever the simplest, most likely to succeed plan that exists; you can be almost certain that the NCAA won't adopt it, choosing instead to do whatever they can to keep as much money in their bureaucracy as they can.

With Title IX, the women will likely suffer the most. If school have to pay play players to compete, they will make that money up by slashing scholarships elsewhere, which means fewer opportunities for people.

That's just my opinion, it's possible I'm way off, but I don't think today's ruling will benefit most scholarship athletes, only football and basketball players at the expense of others.

 

[metsfan2323]

The NCAA makes 11 BILLION dollars off March Madness alone but yeah the players are the greedy ones. (not that you're saying that, I'm summarizing the general attitude of those opposed to players get paid.)

And no, I haven't seen a perfect solution proposed yet but it boggles my mind that everyone jumps to a doom and gloom scenario, when the money IS there, just for everyone but the athletes.

As soon as they go to a pro model there will be far less money available. Minor league sports is not a big revenue producer.

The players aren't forced to participate and they do get paid with a free education and free professional tutelage in their athletic craft. Most importantly top athletes (the ones who are supposedly cheated) gain fame which can be monetized when they leave school.

The moment recruiting involves lawyers and contracts college athletics dies, the free market (ticket buyers) will kill it.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

interesting comment in the NYT:

"Why stop at athletes? Highly skilled student-musicians provide concerts at their school, allowing other students to sample "culture" at affordable prices -- it's part of the college experience. Ticket prices are about $10 for students and $20-25 for community members. Why not acknowledge the most accomplished of the student-musicians and charge $50 a ticket? It would bring in more for the school which could then pay the musician a professional fee. And if peers can't afford that, they don't need to experience these things, let them listen to the radio in their dorm room. Now, what about science students who contribute to the development of new technology from their lab work? Yes, they are learning, but shouldn't they get wages like in the med-tech industry? Their work could lead to lucrative patents for the school . . . and even stuff for humanity, like whatever.

does he have a point?

 

[metsfan2323]

in the open market what would 4 years of basketball training from Jim Calhoun cost? Have his basketball students benefited financially? The idea that these "kids are getting cheated" is asinine.

and to just focus on revenues produced is crazy, many schools barely break even.

 

[Jimdish255]

I have been escorted out of many facilities for violating the most minor union rules, thus costing the customer and companies thousands of additional dollars.

Many facilities? Disregard for the rules you consider to be minor could get one escorted out of plenty non-union entities too. Last I checked the "union"rules are actually rules negotiated and agreed upon by both parties.

 

[BlueMAB]

http://www.kevinolliebasketballcamp.com/camp-sessions-and-fees/

A resident pays $509 for 4 days (and 3 nights) that's about $127/day.

If a player spends 200 days working with coaches, that's nearly $26,000. Less $7000 for room and board (which is already covered in the scholarship) = $19,000 (rounded) x 4 years = $76,000.

http://financialaid.uconn.edu/cost/
Out of state students (including meal plans and housing) pay $45,000/year.

Total compensation after 4 years: $256,000, or $64,000/year to attend school, get job training potentially worth millions, or a college degree as a back up plan. Without much for expenses since housing and food is covered for most (not all) of the year.

I said earlier, stipends I can support. Allowing college kids to unionize is not going to end well for college sports.

 

[weyuo]

I can't get behind this line of thinking when Nick Saban at Alabama is making what 7 million? Delany as Big Ten Commish gets what 3 million? Big Time college sports are a big business and there are business men getting rich off cheap/free labor. Do the right thing and give these kids a stipend already.

cheap/ free labor? Education, how much does that cost the non scholarship student a year at UConn? Transportation around the country, hell with the women's basketball team that could be around the planet, how much is air fare costing you these days? Free meals, what's your grocery bill a year? And by the way these guys aren't just eating cheese burgers and pizza. How much is it costing you in health care insurance and how much out of pocket money do you spend a year on your health care? And not just visit the family PCP kind of healthcare. Do you have a doctor or EMT literally sitting feet away from you while you perform your work duties? Scholarship athletes get that paid for. Housing...how much does that cost a year, not a dime for the football team. If you add it all up a scholarship athlete is being compensated pretty good when you figure in what it would cost him/her out of pocket for what they get as part of their scholarship. Oh.. and by the way I keep forgetting about private study rooms, tutors, private training facilities(Shenkman). I can't just walk in there and get state of the art training. How much does something like that cost in the real world?

 

[1husky]

Unions arguably being out of control over the last 50 years does nothing to change the fact that they unequivocally have helped improve the lives of every single working-class American in every walk of life.

Indiana football/basketball generates $40 million in TV revenue, once the new Big Ten deal is done. Hell yes, the athletes who are the reason absolutely deserve AT LEAST a stipend.

Does anyone really believe it will end with a stipend?

 

[CTMike]

I don't agree with the unionized employee model for college athletes, but students should have some say in the framework they are playing under.
I'm OK with stipends, but I believe student athletes should be able to profit however they see fit via their personal likeness/autographs/marketing/etc.

 

[Stinger92860]

This is a showstopper for me. I have battled unions and have seen the destruction they have caused in the Northeast and the Rust Belt states for 20 plus years. I have been physically assaulted, threatened, spat at, had vehicles egged, tires slashed, and have been prevented from entering facilities due to erroneous picket lines. I have seen their actions add up to thousands and thousands of dollars of additional cost to my customers due to her arcane rules and regulations. I have been escorted out of many facilities for violating the most minor union rules, thus costing the customer and companies thousands of additional dollars. I have seen them protect the worst of the worst of employees have no business being employed. There is a reason heavily unionized Northeastern and Rust Belt states are losing population. I really enjoy watching college football. I already cut the cable cord because of what ESPN (I'm from Bristol ) has done to us concerning our conference realignment situation. I won't support ESPN why we are in conference purgatory. I simply will not support college football if it goes to a union pay system. Student athletes receive tens of thousands of dollars a year in compensation in the form of tuition, room and board, full medical, academic support, and numerous other benefits. I have no problem with student athletes receipt of a small stipend. Everything that unions get involved with they simply destroy. It's no surprise this started in Chicago.

Extremism of any kind is typically not good for one side. Have you seen working conditions where unions did not exist? Remember child labor or the Triangle fire? Not a big fan of unions or big companies. There has to be a middle ground. When you find please let me know.

 

[noeynox]

cheap/ free labor? Education, how much does that cost the non scholarship student a year at UConn? Transportation around the country, hell with the women's basketball team that could be around the planet, how much is air fare costing you these days? Free meals, what's your grocery bill a year? And by the way these guys aren't just eating cheese burgers and pizza. How much is it costing you in health care insurance and how much out of pocket money do you spend a year on your health care? And not just visit the family PCP kind of healthcare. Do you have a doctor or EMT literally sitting feet away from you while you perform your work duties? Scholarship athletes get that paid for. Housing...how much does that cost a year, not a dime for the football team. If you add it all up a scholarship athlete is being compensated pretty good when you figure in what it would cost him/her out of pocket for what they get as part of their scholarship. Oh.. and by the way I keep forgetting about private study rooms, tutors, private training facilities(Shenkman). I can't just walk in there and get state of the art training. How much does something like that cost in the real world?

Simple question. Are you okay with athletice administrators who over see conferences, and schools as well as coaches making "millions" at their profession? Cripes, look at UNC. There was no effort to educate the players. It was pretty much a system set up to keep players eligible. Why work so hard to keep players eligible and not normal students? So that they can keep doing what they do, and perform for the school. You really think UNC is an isolated incident? Somehow I think guys like Saban and Calipari could afford to rake in a few less million a year if it meant the players getting some trivial compensation for the service they provide.

 

[BG79]

I can't get behind this line of thinking when Nick Saban at Alabama is making what 7 million? Delany as Big Ten Commish gets what 3 million? Big Time college sports are a big business and there are business men getting rich off cheap/free labor. Do the right thing and give these kids a stipend already.

Those people are at the tops of their respective careers. The college athlete is more akin to an intern than those you listed. Many internships are not paid, I know I wasnt when I interned at the state capital. Should I of demanded the same wage as the Governor was getting?

The highest paid NFL salaries make those you cherry picked look like chump change. The players right now are interning for those NFL jobs. In the meantime they're compensated handsomely in ways I only wish I was. Must be a hard life being the man on campus and on the football team with no student loan debt to worry about and girls falling over themselves to get at you. Poor saps.

 

[Johnny Mac]

IMO, giving the players a stipend and allowing the athletes to unionize are two different discussions. The former could work, the latter will probably end college sports as we know it....

Is this a bad thing, ending college sports as we know it? IMHO, college sports could use a shake up and I'm OK with labor doing the shaking.

 

[UConn Insider]

I also fail to understand how universities are getting rich off of the football players? Is there a magic executive making tons of bonus money from the University making a ton of money off of football? In fact, quite the opposite, doesn't a lot of the money basically go to fund sports that would not be supported otherwise, and other student activities?

Yeah some administrators at Ohio State don't make money of the football players, just off the WRESTLERS: http://deadspin.com/ohio-state-ad-gets-18-000-because-a-wrestler-won-a-tit-1551289573

So do you think the AD is more deserving of that $18K compared to the athlete?

 

[noeynox]

ex

Those people are at the tops of their respective careers. The college athlete is more akin to an intern than those you listed. Many internships are not paid, I know I wasnt when I interned at the state capital. Should I of demanded the same wage as the Governor was getting?

The highest paid NFL salaries make those you cherry picked look like chump change. The players right now are interning for those NFL jobs. In the meantime they're compensated handsomely in ways I only wish I was. Must be a hard life being the man on campus and on the football team with no student loan debt to worry about and girls falling over themselves to get at you. Poor saps.

Except, as an intern, and I am going to make an assumption here, you weren't the fuel in the engine that generated millions upon millions, heck billions of dollars in revenue. People will counter that most schools lose money on sports, yet there are real millions being generated by these college athletics. No one ever tuned in to CBS on a friday night to watch you perform your intern duties. No one is paying astronimical prices to be at the Garden this Friday to see Delany, Saban or Pitino. All this money is being paid to watch these kids do what they do.

I understand that unionization and stipends are two different ball games. The real problem is that these kids aren't stupid. They see what basically amounts to five cartels band together and call themselves the "Power 5". (Heck the ACC basically acted like the Sinaloa Cartel in how they systematically destroyed the Beltran Leyva Cartel/The Big East, with the help of the Government/Espn, kidding of course) They see Delany and others talk about projections of up to 40 million per school annually in TV rights alone. So all of this increased revenue and players are supposed to be happy with the scholarship, room and board and the "education".

Dexter Manley sure got an education at OK State back in the day. Some of those kids that would struggle to do the work at the local community college are used for their athletic ability plain and simple. There are millions of dollars generated off the backs of these kids that go directly into the pockets of old, rich, men. I realize this threatens college sports as I have loved it, but the real problem is the greed exhibited in this gigantic money grab of TV dollars.