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- Thread starter The Viking
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Outside of Louisville in what world is newcomer in D1FB UConn more worthy of P-5 than the rest of the schools who all offer something unique (Market,history,cache)to a major conference? Just curious!!It takes more than 10 years of mediocre bigboy football to those conferences outside of our east coast bubble!Some of those hicks couldn't pick Connecticut out on a map!Just look at frankthetanks perception (and he's educated) of us!!
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If Seagoat had said "as worthy" it would have seemed a reasonable post!!But "more worthy"???
Where did he say "more worthy"? You used the phrase "more worthy".
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@I have to reread the post....I absorbed it as "belonging ahead of"?
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I see it now(as worthy)...my mistake jostar !!
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Believe me I certainly think UConn is gonna get the next B1G call if they can find a partner but I think the ACC always changes their standards when it comes to UConn and don't have any faith in them! Nor do I trust them!
I respect PJ as well. He just about always puts things into a good perspective and I respect him for taking a fair minded approach. I just disagree with his opinion on Oklahoma, and this may be due to our different backgrounds. I grew up in Pittsburgh, PA with no NBA team and a couple weak college BB teams. For most of my region (western PA, Eastern OH, WV) it was football, football, football. Football was year round and High Schools football games would routinely draw larger crowds than college BB. I respect that much of CT/NYC/NE and Uconn fans put a larger emphasis on BB than some of the other regions. Uconn's success in BB is why I have followed Uconn and respect the newly developed rivalry between Pitt and Uconn. Maybe it is a cultural difference between myself (and Frank and a few others from the midwest) and many of the Uconn fans that live in the NE, but I honestly think that some of the Uconn posters are short sighted when sighting BB and WBB as the reasons that Uconn will and should be invited to join the P5 while downplaying the importance of football. I agree that BB has had an influence in realignment with the ACC and NBE, but in general football has trumped BB due to the structure of TV contracts (10 to 1, football to BB money). I think many Uconn posters fail to give the Uconn football program the credit it deserves with respect to realignment because they feel BB is a stronger talking point. Uconn took big strides in 10 years of BE football and has put the school in a position to receive and invite to the P5. Without these big strides, Uconn may have considered joining the NBE and dumping football in CUSA, or MAC or DII. Instead we are discussing Uconn joining the B1G and ACC which would have been a pipe dream only 10 years ago, but seems more likely than not today. I would like nothing more than to see Uconn in the ACC because I enjoy watching the BB games. I would also welcome them to the B1G as well, although I would be disappointed personally because they would lose a few rivals in the ACC.
NN,
Read my post - I don't say "more worthy" and I was responding to Bearcat so I was thinking Cincy too. To be clear, if the schools I listed "deserve" a P-5 nod then UConn and Cincy do too. That's it - no more, no less.
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I wasn't stating a value in the sense most here may be thinking of it. Agreed, Oklahoma football is worth a great deal. But how much of B1G expansion decisions are driven by the monetary value of football, and how much by other criteria (contiguity for cultural and geographic stability and rivalries; AAU - collaboration for mutual research support; year-round content for the BTN; large markets to bring increased exposure and value of Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, etc)? The relative weights are not completely clear, but the B1G has made it clear that all of the other factors matter. While other conferences like the ACC, SEC, and B12 seem to value football above all else, the B1G has taken a broader view due to its significant BTN revenues and its emphasis on cultural compatibility and cooperation above and beyond athletics.
Using the stated B1G criteria, Oklahoma as a lone entrant, without Missouri or Kansas to provide geographic continuity, is not a fit for stated B1G criteria. Nebraska is not a good model because it was contiguous to B1G states and also is a stronger research (near-AAU) institution. Moreover, Nebraska has not set the world on fire since joining the B1G. I think you have to wonder if that national football brand may decline with a move from a southern/regional conference with great recruiting grounds to a northern conference with weaker recruiting grounds. Loss of geographical contiguous opponents would certainly diminish rivalries and diminish local Oklahoma fan interest.
The B1G has been very cautious about expansion that might jeopardize its culture. I think to take Oklahoma, they would need Kansas or Texas, maybe Missouri, but that's doubtful. Whereas to take UConn, they only need a good #16 from anywhere in the country. AAU is the only major hurdle for us, and even that would probably not be necessary if our football program were stronger.
Yes, Oklahoma is an attractive school no doubt, in the right mix of additions. But Oklahoma + Oklahoma State - Kansas/Texas/Missouri is not a good add for the B1G. Oklahoma alone without Kansas Texas or Missouri is not a good add according to the B1G's stated criteria.
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Basketball isn't that valuable under current arrangements. But:
- Basketball is extremely valuable to networks. ESPN was built on basketball. Basketball is extremely valuable to the BTN. It is especially valuable for penetrating the northeast, eg NYC. Other conferences don't value basketball because they don't have a network. The B1G will value it more than any other conference. It's likely the BTN becomes a larger share of B1G revenue in the next conference.
- We know the D4 breakaway is in the works. Once D4 forms for football, they will break away in basketball. At that point, basketball revenue is no longer split 330 ways and becomes split 64 ways, it is much larger per school. It becomes of the same order as football. It becomes extremely valuable for your conference to have a top basketball brand and to get a larger share of the tourney/playoff shares, which goes with success. Commissioners like Delany are planning ahead and they want to put the pieces in place for their conference to dominate in the new D4 environment.
So the money is going to shift from something like 3:1 football:basketball currently (not 10:1; the ACC $20 mn/yr is probably about $7 mn basketball and $13 mn football, and that's not counting ACC NCAA tourney revenue; ACC is basketball is far more valuable than new Big East/C7 basketball which got $3 mn/year, so the $7 mn could be an underestimate) to 2:1 or 1:1.
And it will shift the most for the B1G. Delany knows this. And that is why UConn can be passed over multiple times by the ACC and be a top target of the B1G.
But I do agree with one thing: UConn's situation would be far better if our football program were stronger. A lot of people do place a lot of weight on football.
I believe basketball is currently undervalued by networks. I agree 10:1 may not be realistic , but 5:1 or even 8:1 are realistic. The contract that the BE turned down was for 130 million/year. The offer was for $13.8 million for full time members, $2.43 million for BB only, and $11.37 million for FB only. Under this contract the football was worth 82% and the BB was worth 18% and the remaining sports were of little value. Thats puts FB:BB ratio at 5.5:1 for the best basketball league in the country vs the lowest BCS football league. A league such as the ACC may see a similar ratio, but I suspect the stronger football leagues get a higher ratio of revenue from football. Going forward, especially with concussion revelations, basketball value can only increase with respect to football. You are also dead on that conference networks and the interenet will change the game. Conference network channels and internet conference streaming will increase the value of BB and other non revenue sports. But, we are all just speculating as to future worth of BB, TV contracts, network channels, etc. It's just too hard to predict what will happen. 10 years ago, no one would have predicted you could watch sports on your phone.
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Basketball is selectively important in that it gives ESPN and other networks content for otherwise weak periods of time during the year. From the post-Super Bowl (and preceeding two-week gap between championship games) to the end of the Final Four, there's very little else interesting going on in sports outside of mid-season NBA and NHL games which generally are snoozefests, and the playoff push for them isn't really in full swing until NCAA tournament time. IF you were to remove CBB, ESPN's live sports programming during January, February, and March would be a wasteland of NBA games. Certainly basketball doesn't bring in nearly the TV revenue of football, but it provides four-plus primetime hours of content on multiple networks four nights during the week, and all day on Saturday and potentially Sunday. Football is (realistically) a two or three-day sport that is getting increasingly weaker as the NFL moves into the weeknights.
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Agreed. Regarding the old BE contract: I believe ESPN only got a limited number of basketball games under that contract, not all of them; that contract proposal was rejected by the league as inadequate, in part because of the low compensation for basketball onlys; and it neglects the NCAA bball tourney credits which added ~$4 mn per team per year, which would make the FB:BB ratio closer to 2:1. But as I said, you can look at other leagues for different numbers. I don't think ACC football is valued at 5:1 over ACC basketball in its current media deal. 2:1 might be a good estimate. ACC basketball is worth a heck of a lot more than C7/nBE basketball which got $3 mn/year.
Football drives revenue because the major programs have 80k-100k stadiums and charge ungodly amounts for tickets. In terms of media rights, basketball has considerable value, especially if the D4 break away from the NCAA tourney.
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Yes I absolutely agree when I reread your post Seagoat!I read it too fast and just woke up lol! I think I already made a retraction here earlier!My apologies sir!!
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Please continue Brother Bluto, and don't leave out the part where the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor. . .
Actually I'm with you, there's still one more BCS AQ Bowl, I say UCONN surprises this year.
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- The Dude of WV
@theDudeofWV1h - It doesn’t make me happy to say it, but Texas has something up Dodd’s 10-gallon hat. Texas thinks it can get out of the GoR. I HOPE NOT.
- Jacob Bumgarner
@JakeBumgarner1h @theDudeofWV where do they think they will go
- Jacob Bumgarner
- The Dude of WV
@theDudeofWV1h
@JakeBumgarner B1G. This is real and it scares the shit out of me.
- The Dude of WV
@theDudeofWV51m - Also a factor. With a GoR in place the B12 would have one helluva case of torturous inference against the B1G.
- Chris A. Curtis
@Iamgrizzly197443m @theDudeofWV Why would that be if UT approached the B1G? UT has had serious negotiations with B1H before. This does surprise me! WOW!
- Chris A. Curtis
- The Dude of WV
@theDudeofWV41m
@Iamgrizzly1974 Because the B1G approached Texas.
The Dude of WV
CL82
James Breeding sucks
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Well happier anyway. If we end up the B1G, I'd be happy. I'm okay but not thrilled with the ACC. We are not a great fit in the Big 12 , but ...any port will do in a storm, right?
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If Texas were to leave the big 12, the conference would fall apart quickly. OU would be looking for a partner to join the Pac 12 and Kansas would be on its way to the B1G. The Big12 would try by adding cincy and USF/UCF but the conf would not be in the national picture any longer
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Would the B12 poach the American or would the American poach the B12? Not sure how contracts etc would work.
I would think that the B12, MWC and AAC heavyweights could create a couple good leagues.
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Limbo Land
Pounding Down the Doors!
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Texas is like Notre Dame... they are out for themselves. I just don't see them being part of the pack in the B1G. That being said I would say this is a great power move for the B1G if it happens. Are we to believe that we are #16. I doubt it though a big football team would help pave the way for our school with less griping. The bigger question sfor Uconn fans is whether this alleged back door Texas may have can work for other schools. That will play a huge role in whether Uconn gets an invite or keeps waiting by the punch bowl. But if this to come to pass here are the options as I see it for the B1G and Big 12...
1. B1G goes to 16 with either Uconn and Vandy as the only non-GOR schools who fits the majority of the B1G profile.
2. B1G could take #16 of Uconn, Oklahoma, Kansas, or Vandy if GOR off the table for Big 12
3. B1G goes 18 with a combination of 3 of these 4 schools Vandy least likely since in good position with SEC. 9 team divisions good for football scheduling witha more clear east west divisional split)
4. Big 12 loses Oklahoma and Kansas to Pac12 for their own conference security
5. Big 12 takes a combo of teams from Cincy, UCF, USF, and even Temple (or a Uconn if not already taken to get to 12) They wont go more then 12.
6. ACC could but would never bring in West Virginia... unless they turn in what shred of soul they still have left.
It could work for us but what do I know... we keep getting screwed!
1. B1G goes to 16 with either Uconn and Vandy as the only non-GOR schools who fits the majority of the B1G profile.
2. B1G could take #16 of Uconn, Oklahoma, Kansas, or Vandy if GOR off the table for Big 12
3. B1G goes 18 with a combination of 3 of these 4 schools Vandy least likely since in good position with SEC. 9 team divisions good for football scheduling witha more clear east west divisional split)
4. Big 12 loses Oklahoma and Kansas to Pac12 for their own conference security
5. Big 12 takes a combo of teams from Cincy, UCF, USF, and even Temple (or a Uconn if not already taken to get to 12) They wont go more then 12.
6. ACC could but would never bring in West Virginia... unless they turn in what shred of soul they still have left.
It could work for us but what do I know... we keep getting screwed!
The Dude of WV@theDudeofWV8h
I have the details on why Texas wants out and how they plan to get out of the GoR.
The Dude of WV@SportsNut1979 UT contends if B12 payouts decline the GoR is void.
The Dude of WV@theDudeofWV5h
@SportsNut1979 B12 revenues will decrease if 2 more are added. A min of 12 members & a ccg will be required in D4.
The Dude of WV@theDudeofWV4h
@cjcase All B12 schools will be D4 & therefore safely in the money. KU is high on B1G’s wish list.
The Dude of WV@theDudeofWV3h
@cjcase Hoops. They want KU for many reasons. Hoops is just one. KU is AAU.
I have the details on why Texas wants out and how they plan to get out of the GoR.
The Dude of WV
The Dude of WV
The Dude of WV
The Dude of WV
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If the Big12 falls apart, Uconn may be stuck in a slightly better league made up of the Big12 leftovers not going to BIG or Pac... Iowa St., K-State, Baylor, Texas Tech, TCU, and WVU...
At that point, its Big4 and the 5th should just grab the best programs:
BYU, Boise, Houston, TCU, WVU, Cincy, Temple, Uconn, USF, UCF, Memphis, K-State, Baylor and Texas Tech...
At that point, its Big4 and the 5th should just grab the best programs:
BYU, Boise, Houston, TCU, WVU, Cincy, Temple, Uconn, USF, UCF, Memphis, K-State, Baylor and Texas Tech...
SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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UConn and KU to the B1G would please me greatly.
UConn and UVa just as good.
So would UConn and UNC or UConn and Texas, or UConn and Miss Porters School for Girls. I don't think that last one is AAU but you get the point.
But I would like going in with Kansas. I think the PR would be better than when RU and MD. "Two BB heavyweights that have also have functional FB programs with BCS appearances." I think it'd sell very well.
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UConn and UVa just as good.
So would UConn and UNC or UConn and Texas, or UConn and Miss Porters School for Girls. I don't think that last one is AAU but you get the point.
But I would like going in with Kansas. I think the PR would be better than when RU and MD. "Two BB heavyweights that have also have functional FB programs with BCS appearances." I think it'd sell very well.
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Maybe but believe me I was shocked at the midwestern teams lack of sophistication or knowledge of teams outside there footprint and RU had 3 teams AD's lobbying for them for years!Whatever happened to east coast bias?lol!I wouldn't be surprised by a backlash but that would be expected in the B1G unless your a Texas,ND or Oklahoma!!I guess now with Md,RU and PSU being in/for (for the most part) you guys it might ease the angst!!I can't wait for it to happen speaking for most RU fan's!
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Thing is UConn is a much better school than Kansas (21 v 51 among public schools in USNWR, 140 v 390 in Forbes, etc.). But Kansas entered the AAU club during the Taft administration.
Sort of annoyed that the academic side of UConn didn't push for AAU status decades ago. There's no reason why the school should have allowed itself to be viewed as inferior to its peers. But perhaps they had "we're just a small state"-itis and felt more in common with URI, UMass, UNH, and Delaware than with the AAU crew.
Of course, I also probably wouldn't care about AAU status at all if it wasn't affecting our sports teams now, so I guess I'm not the right person to complain about that.
Sort of annoyed that the academic side of UConn didn't push for AAU status decades ago. There's no reason why the school should have allowed itself to be viewed as inferior to its peers. But perhaps they had "we're just a small state"-itis and felt more in common with URI, UMass, UNH, and Delaware than with the AAU crew.
Of course, I also probably wouldn't care about AAU status at all if it wasn't affecting our sports teams now, so I guess I'm not the right person to complain about that.
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