Non-Key Tweets

[Pat125]

I’m not an expert on Title IX, but been to a few lectures on it. While there are clear issues with conferences becoming more super regional and national, such as travel, I don’t believe Title IX is one of them.

If things tilt more in the favor of football regarding travel, than women’s sports that compete mostly on weekends. Or differences between men’s and women’s basketball and other sports, then there would be a Title IX concern.

 

[billybud]

This thread is becoming a mansplaining parody.

Ohh...so you refute logic by pedantic man-woman simplifications...sooo...what about all of the voluntary non conference travel of women's teams ? Got a thought ?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Ohh...so you refute logic by pedantic man-woman simplifications...sooo...what about all of the voluntary non conference travel of women's teams ? Got a thought ?

It is a Title IX problem. You may not care that it is a Title IX problem, and the schools may pay off the female athletes somehow with traveling professors or something, but you are wrong and I am right on this. Any time the argument is that the defendant will pay more to make the plaintiff's lives more unpleasant, the defendant has a losing case. I honestly don't even know why a college would defend a case like this given the terrible press that it would generate.

 

[businesslawyer]

It is a Title IX problem. You may not care that it is a Title IX problem, and the schools may pay off the female athletes somehow with traveling professors or something, but you are wrong and I am right on this. Any time the argument is that the defendant will pay more to make the plaintiff's lives more unpleasant, the defendant has a losing case. I honestly don't even know why a college would defend a case like this given the terrible press that it would generate.

I don't understand why you are having trouble discerning between crappy treatment and disparate treatment. It is crappy that a men's football team or a women's crew squad has to go from New Brunswick to L.A. to compete over a weekend. Schools should not allow it. And whether they are willing to take political hit for it is another issue (although I doubt there are material adverse political consequences but neither of us knows that today). But unless there are more facts, and schools should be able to avoid creating them, the treatment is not disparate.

And yes, Title IX is complicated and schools, even if they've done nothing wrong, don't want to defend a case. But that's classic Muntz goalpost moving. That's an issue with or without football driven realignment.

 

[billybud]

Oh ...what I do not believe is that NelsonMuntz is the end all-be all of law and Title IX.

Just because others may not have your devout belief, you tend to denigrate them..."old lawyer"..responding to Business Lawyer. And declare them wrong and you to be right.

I certainly have no experience in Title IX or tort cases.

 

[Dizzy21]

It is a Title IX problem. You may not care that it is a Title IX problem, and the schools may pay off the female athletes somehow with traveling professors or something, but you are wrong and I am right on this. Any time the argument is that the defendant will pay more to make the plaintiff's lives more unpleasant, the defendant has a losing case. I honestly don't even know why a college would defend a case like this given the terrible press that it would generate.

So your argument is to cut women's travel budgets by having them play less nationally relevant teams? That seems like you are actually trying to violate Title IX in a big way.

 

[billybud]

I do know how administrative hearings before a judge work...

My process (simplified here) in sevaral thousand decisions as an Administrative Law Judge was ...schedule and notify parties of a hearing...arrange for the enrollment of evidence....take sworn testimony and question parties to obtain facts, and issue decisions based on found facts and points of law.

The law is always the basis for the determinanation....the more specific the law, rule, regulation...the more the clarity of the decision is enhanced... in terms of points of law vs found facts.

 

[billybud]

Title IX states: “No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

This is fairly broad language and will be developed by precedence over time.

As an example...

Federal court decision favors limited application of Title IX

Federal appeals court ruling sets narrow standard for what institutions are expected to do when students commit sexual misconduct.

www.insidehighered.com

 

[billybud]

While the language in Title IX does not mention equity in athletics or sports, the United States Department of Health, Education and Welfare (now the U.S. Department of Education) in 1975 published a set of regulations extending Title IX’s protection to athletics, requiring recipients to provide equal athletic opportunity for members of both sexes. While these regulations and policy interpretations do not have the force of law, they are intended to provide the courts and others a more robust explanation of the law.

Court case example

Supreme Court won't hear case that could have changed Title IX's impact on college sports

The case stems from Michigan State's decision in October 2020 to eliminate its men’s and women’s swimming and diving teams at end of 2020-21 season.

www.usatoday.com

 

[businesslawyer]

Oh ...what I do not believe is that NelsonMuntz is the end all-be all of law and Title IX.

Just because others may not have your devout belief, you tend to denigrate them..."old lawyer"..responding to Business Lawyer. And declare them wrong and you to be right.

I certainly have no experience in Title IX or tort cases.

Yes, I was very very hurt by that reference. Probably won't sleep tonight. LOL.

 

[CTMike]

This thread is becoming a mansplaining parody.

Not for the reasons you think!

 

[CoastAtlantic]

 

[billybud]

Yes, I was very very hurt by that reference. Probably won't sleep tonight. LOL.

Sleep sometimes eludes the aged...LOL

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I don't understand why you are having trouble discerning between crappy treatment and disparate treatment. It is crappy that a men's football team or a women's crew squad has to go from New Brunswick to L.A. to compete over a weekend. Schools should not allow it. And whether they are willing to take political hit for it is another issue (although I doubt there are material adverse political consequences but neither of us knows that today). But unless there are more facts, and schools should be able to avoid creating them, the treatment is not disparate.

And yes, Title IX is complicated and schools, even if they've done nothing wrong, don't want to defend a case. But that's classic Muntz goalpost moving. That's an issue with or without football driven realignment.

It is disparate treatment when the two teams are impacted differently by the same travel. Not that complicated.

 

[billybud]

a. Some aspects of athletic programs may not be equivalent for men and women because of unique aspects of particular sports or athletic activities. This type of distinction was called for by the "Javits' Amendment" 5 to Title IX which instructed HEW to make "reasonable (regulatory) provisions considering the nature of particular sports" in intercollegiate athletics.

Generally, these differences will be the result of factors that are inherent to the basic operation of specific sports. Such factors may include rules of play, nature/replacement of equipment, rates of injury resulting from participation, nature of facilities required for competition, and the maintenance/ upkeep requirements of those facilities. For the most part, differences involving such factors will occur in programs offering football, and consequently these differences will favor men. If sport-specific needs are met equivalently in both men's and women's programs, however, differences in particular program components will be found to be justifiable.

Modes of travel for men's and women's teams travelling to the same or similar locations should be the same. Accomodations should be similar...etc. etc.

 

[billybud]

We knew Oregon would be the leader...UConn boosters gave more than UCF and Cincinnati..

I do wonder about validity...Bama and Ohio State lower than I would have thought..

 

[CoastAtlantic]

 

[GoConn]

our favorite non-key.

I do wonder if the ACC going west, does now pressure the Big 12 going more East though.

 

[phillionaire]

our favorite non-key.

I do wonder if the ACC going west, does now pressure the Big 12 going more East though.

Yeah they’ll take Memphis, USF, and UMass

 

[JeepCSC]

Why would BY's plans for phase 2 revolve around the ACC's plans? Is the Big XII still holding out hope for Stanford/Cal?

 

[Rufus]

Everyone who feels bad for Washington State and Oregon State, I look at it like this.......

Those two schools benefited tremendously from the lack of major college sports in the Pacific Time Zone. They were in the PAC and PCC prior because there were no other plausible options for the conference to add teams. If those two schools were located in Ohio/Michigan/Indiana, they would have been charter members of the Mid-American Conference and likely still in the MAC today just like the Ohio Bobcats. The Cougars and Beavers are now going to the level they would have been at from day one had they not been located on the west coast.

 

[hoopsfan22]

Everyone who feels bad for Washington State and Oregon State, I look at it like this.......

Those two schools benefited tremendously from the lack of major college sports in the Pacific Time Zone. They were in the PAC and PCC prior because there were no other plausible options for the conference to add teams. If those two schools were located in Ohio/Michigan/Indiana, they would have been charter members of the Mid-American Conference and likely still in the MAC today just like the Ohio Bobcats.

They are like most "power" schools - freeloaders hitching a free ride thanks to being grandfathered in and collecting those fat checks for basically doing nothing other than being a doormat. I do not feel bad for schools getting shown the door from the club.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

 

[CoastAtlantic]

 

[Fairfield_1st]

IF (Gigantic IF) what MHVER says is true (highly unlikely), doesn't that once again confirm that our resident internal parasite ESPN is in fact pulling the strings on expansion and again doing nothing for us?