New XL Center

[TheDoggPound]

This may well be true but the solution would be a new 12,500 seat arena on campus, not a new 16,000 seat arena in downtown Hartford.

A major part of the solution is for Hartford to find a means of increasing foot traffic that does not involve UConn sporting events.

I don't think a new arena in Hartford takes away any more games then it already does from Gampel and the solution is not a 12,500 seat arena in Storrs because UConn's main fan base exist mainly in Hartford county.

 

[TheDoggPound]

A new arena in Hartford and Gampel would compliment one another nicely. Nice 1-2 punch as far as facilities are concerned and we would stack up vs. anybody else in the country.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Agree here. It is going to cost us a ton in taxes whether they renovate or start from scratch. I say build from scratch, start over. State of the art arena, make a push for an NHL team, and at the very least get more events there.

Compared with 2 decades ago when the Whalers left Hartford, it's even more doubtful private investors will jump at the opportunity to build a 2020-competitive arena in a small city with a smaller population and now shrunken corporate culture. Building anew likely makes sense versus putting a dinasaur on CPR again, but it also may make the timing of suggested tax decreases interesting. Where's the beef (money)? Revenue bonds? Tourism taxes?

 

[UConnNick]

I know facilities had nothing to do with us getting boned in CR but could a new arena not help us just the slightest? Actual question as i don't know.

The only facilities upgrade that would help us in CR would be an expansion of Rentschler to 60,000 seats. As tough as it was to get the Conn. legislature to build it in the first place, I don't seen that happening any time soon. In reality, without an invite on the table from a P5 conference, there's no reason to spend the money to do that. We certainly don't have current attendance levels that would justify it.

 

[CL82]

Both have to be better options than a vacant lot.

But maybe not as good as selling the property to someone who'll generate real jobs and pay real estate taxes?

Hartford's already a money hole. That's not saying that I wouldn't mind seeing UConn get a first class downtown facility paid for by some State, City, private company's money. But I don't live in CT so I'm not a stakeholder. If I were I might just want to sensible plan to how the state gets a return on its investment.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I'm having a hard time seeing how a new area, or even a substantial renovation can have a decent ROI absent a pro sports franchise.

Ask U Louisville about the Yum! Center...

 

[DarthGrumpy]

With Bettman in charge of the NHL, Hartford has 0% of getting a NHL team. Even if someone competent ran the NHL, Hartford chances are only slightly better as it is well behind the following cities (in no specific order): Quebec City, Toronto #2/Hamilton, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Seattle.

Let Hartford fix Hartford's issues. Build a 10K arena, which is comparable to similar cities have in the region (Providence, Manchester, Albany, etc.) and solidly the city's slot as a solid AHL team and other events. That will allow UConn to solve it's own needs for a larger on campus basketball (12K) and hockey (6K) arenas or arena. Storrs provides a better environment for the Huskies, anyway. Of course, with Connecticut politics involved, that's a pipedream.

 

[FartMan69]

Compared with 2 decades ago when the Whalers left Hartford, it's even more doubtful private investors will jump at the opportunity to build a 2020-competitive arena in a small city with a smaller population and now shrunken corporate culture. Building anew likely makes sense versus putting a dinasaur on CPR again, but it also may make the timing of suggested tax decreases interesting. Where's the beef (money)? Revenue bonds? Tourism taxes?

The Hartford market has actually increased in population since the Whalers left. The population of the city really doesn't matter

 

[FartMan69]

But maybe not as good as selling the property to someone who'll generate real jobs and pay real estate taxes?

Hartford's already a money hole. That's not saying that I wouldn't mind seeing UConn get a first class downtown facility paid for by some State, City, private company's money. But I don't live in CT so I'm not a stakeholder. If I were I might just want to sensible plan to how the state gets a return on its investment.

Who would they sell it to? The only time downtown Hartford has foot traffic is during events at the XL, No business would survive downtown without an attraction especially with Blue Back and Buckland Hills 10 minutes in away.

 

[FartMan69]

With Bettman in charge of the NHL, Hartford has 0% of getting a NHL team. Even if someone competent ran the NHL, Hartford chances are only slightly better as it is well behind the following cities (in no specific order): Quebec City, Toronto #2/Hamilton, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Seattle.

Let Hartford fix Hartford's issues. Build a 10K arena, which is comparable to similar cities have in the region (Providence, Manchester, Albany, etc.) and solidly the city's slot as a solid AHL team and other events. That will allow UConn to solve it's own needs for a larger on campus basketball (12K) and hockey (6K) arenas or arena. Storrs provides a better environment for the Huskies, anyway. Of course, with Connecticut politics involved, that's a pipedream.

Better chance of the NHL returning than UConn building a new on campus bball facility. Seriously though a 10k seat arena? What?

 

[CL82]

Who would they sell it to? The only time downtown Hartford has foot traffic is during events at the XL, No business would survive downtown without an attraction especially with Blue Back and Buckland Hills 10 minutes in away.

No idea, but I know we have at least one poster, who could speculate much more accurately than I can. I leave to him to do so if he wants.

My point is the XL is bleeding $3M right now, so renovations have to cause a sufficient increase in revenue to be able to cover that, plus debt service, plus increased RE tax, plus return the capital invested over a reasonable time frame. That's a pretty tall order.

 

[Deepster]

A new facility in Hartford? For a few UConn hoop and hockey games each year? Are you people all on drugs? How could that come even close to being economically feasible?

 

[Hoophound]

People need an attitude adjustment regarding Hartford. It is not a small market. It is a larger market than Indianapolis, for instance. It is simply located between huge markets. Hartford supported the Whalers, it supports multi show concert runs and many other events. Hartford proper is geographically tiny, this creates the misperception that it is a small market. Add in East Hartford, West Hartford, Wethersfield, Glastonbury, Windsor, Bloomfield, even New Britain, and you have a typical city footprint. That market needs an arena that makes sense for the area and that is a building that you'd find in a major city. As a state, Connecticut needs to start thinking forward with aggressiveness and optimism. You can't keep giving in to the inevitable compaction of a once great city. The move to put the ball park downtown is great. Now, build an arena that we all take pride in and you'll have two major draws downtown.

The next move is to continue to grow the education scene downtown any way you can. Bring and keep students downtown. I continue to believe that the key is an expanded and collaborative school of fine arts downtown that has an emphasis on popular music and production along with classic music and drama studies. This school could be a group effort of the state university system, UHart, community colleges and Connecticut School of a Broadcasting. It seems to me to be the most viable and tasteful way to get interesting and talented young people to spend time downtown.

I find it very frustrating that people are so willing to give up on Hartford's place as a major hub of activity, culture and entertainment in this region. The area has too many people and resources to let it just disappear as a major center of commerce.

 

[pnow15]

Doesn't Montville have a pretty good stadium that comes equipped with restaurants and slot machines.

 

[ktuck911]

I don't think a new arena in Hartford takes away any more games then it already does from Gampel and the solution is not a 12,500 seat arena in Storrs because UConn's main fan base exist mainly in Hartford county.

I disagree....fan base might've been that way when I was there back in the late 80's to early 90's...its expanded... You should hope the Four time MBB National Championship not to mention the WBB plethora of National championships expanded the fan base beyond that tiny geographical area...

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

The Hartford market has actually increased in population since the Whalers left. The population of the city really doesn't matter

Find that surprising with the Hartford-area's reported shrinking corporate base, rapidly aging population, etc., but will go with your view. Given mass rushes to the 'burbs each rush hour, sadly appearances whenever in Hartford suggest the city itself is on CPR despite recent efforts to inspire growth. As other messages suggest, perhaps not, yet it's challenging at best to believe anyone rationally believes an NHL franchise will return to Hartford. With only some UCONN games (hoops, hockey, and women's basketball), a struggling AHL team, some ice show, concerts, etc., what's the economic justification to build a large enough, 2020-competitive arena to potentially entice the NHL? Tough sell to other areas of CT too ...

 

[CTMike]

People need an attitude adjustment regarding Hartford. It is not a small market. It is a larger market than Indianapolis, for instance. It is simply located between huge markets. Hartford supported the Whalers, it supports multi show concert runs and many other events. Hartford proper is geographically tiny, this creates the misperception that it is a small market. Add in East Hartford, West Hartford, Wethersfield, Glastonbury, Windsor, Bloomfield, even New Britain, and you have a typical city footprint. That market needs an arena that makes sense for the area and that is a building that you'd find in a major city. As a state, Connecticut needs to start thinking forward with aggressiveness and optimism. You can't keep giving in to the inevitable compaction of a once great city. The move to put the ball park downtown is great. Now, build an arena that we all take pride in and you'll have two major draws downtown.

The next move is to continue to grow the education scene downtown any way you can. Bring and keep students downtown. I continue to believe that the key is an expanded and collaborative school of fine arts downtown that has an emphasis on popular music and production along with classic music and drama studies. This school could be a group effort of the state university system, UHart, community colleges and Connecticut School of a Broadcasting. It seems to me to be the most viable and tasteful way to get interesting and talented young people to spend time downtown.

I find it very frustrating that people are so willing to give up on Hartford's place as a major hub of activity, culture and entertainment in this region. The area has too many people and resources to let it just disappear as a major center of commerce.

I agree with almost everything you wrote but for the life of me can't think of a reason why a new state of the art arena helps further any of that. We need an arena because other cities have one? That doesn't make sense.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Seriously though a 10k seat arena? What?

Excluding the big Northeast cities and assuming that Hartford will not get an AHL team, a 10K arena appears to be preferable size venue (hockey seating) for a mid-size metro areas in the region in conjunction with AHL average annual attendance (2014/5).

1) Portland ME (625,000): Cross Insurance 6,700...Attendance: 2,800 (AHL)
2) Manchester MH (400,000): Verizon Wireless 9,800; Attendance: 5,000 (AHL)
3) Worcester MA (900,000): DCU 12,200; Attendance: 3,500 (AHL)
4) Springfield MA (700,000): MassMutual 6,900; Attendance: 3,000 (AHL)
5) Providence RI (1,600,000): Dunkin Donuts 11,100; Attendance: 8,000 (AHL)
6) Hartford CT (1,500,000): XL 15,600; Attendance: 4,000 (AHL)
7) Bridgeport CT (900,000): Webster 8,500; Attendance: 4,500 (AHL)
8) Albany NY (1,100,000): Times Union 14,200; Attendance: 3,200 (AHL)
9) Syracuse NY (740,000): On center 6,100; Attendance: 6,200 (AHL)
10) Rochester NY (1,200,000): Blue Cross 10,700; Attendance: 6,100 (AHL)
11) Buffalo NY (1,200,000): First Niagara 19,000; Attendance: 18,400 (NHL)
12) Newark NJ (part of NYC) Prudential 16,700; Attendance: 15,100 (NHL)
13) Scranton/WB PA (560,000): Mohegan Sun 8,000...Attendance: 5,300 (AHL)
14) Allentown PA (830,000): PPL 9,000...Attendance: 8,000 (AHL)

I just don't see an economical reason for an arena in Hartford of higher than 10K based on these numbers. Does UConn draw more? Of course. But, UConn's needs are different that Hartford's.
14) Pittsburgh PA (2,700,000): Consul 18,300; Attendance: 18,600 (NHL)

 

[Hoophound]

I agree with almost everything you wrote but for the life of me can't think of a reason why a new state of the art arena helps further any of that. We need an arena because other cities have one? That doesn't make sense.

You need an arena to maintain the features found in a major market. One of those is first class entertainment. There are 6 things that drive people to cities:

1. Business/government
2. Health care
3. Education
4. Food
5. Entertainment/culture
6. Shopping

Of those things, 4-6 are inextricably interconnected. In order to have any of those things succeed fully you need the other two. By drawing lots of major league entertainment and possibly hockey back, you add customers for the other two. You don't want one night of One Direction concerts in Hartford, you want three. It's all a big expensive puzzle, but you need to complete the puzzle to succeed. Different cities have different pillars to build on. Providence has education, Hartford needs to focus on entertainment because it is the only one you can help put in place and grow easily.

Of course, low state tax burden would give all of this a shot in the arm by drawing people and business to the state, but that is another issue.

 

[FartMan69]

Excluding the big Northeast cities and assuming that Hartford will not get an AHL team, a 10K arena appears to be preferable size venue (hockey seating) for a mid-size metro areas in the region in conjunction with AHL average annual attendance (2014/5).

1) Portland ME (625,000): Cross Insurance 6,700...Attendance: 2,800 (AHL)
2) Manchester MH (400,000): Verizon Wireless 9,800; Attendance: 5,000 (AHL)
3) Worcester MA (900,000): DCU 12,200; Attendance: 3,500 (AHL)
4) Springfield MA (700,000): MassMutual 6,900; Attendance: 3,000 (AHL)
5) Providence RI (1,600,000): Dunkin Donuts 11,100; Attendance: 8,000 (AHL)
6) Hartford CT (1,500,000): XL 15,600; Attendance: 4,000 (AHL)
7) Bridgeport CT (900,000): Webster 8,500; Attendance: 4,500 (AHL)
8) Albany NY (1,100,000): Times Union 14,200; Attendance: 3,200 (AHL)
9) Syracuse NY (740,000): On center 6,100; Attendance: 6,200 (AHL)
10) Rochester NY (1,200,000): Blue Cross 10,700; Attendance: 6,100 (AHL)
11) Buffalo NY (1,200,000): First Niagara 19,000; Attendance: 18,400 (NHL)
12) Newark NJ (part of NYC) Prudential 16,700; Attendance: 15,100 (NHL)
13) Scranton/WB PA (560,000): Mohegan Sun 8,000...Attendance: 5,300 (AHL)
14) Allentown PA (830,000): PPL 9,000...Attendance: 8,000 (AHL)

I just don't see an economical reason for an arena in Hartford of higher than 10K based on these numbers. Does UConn draw more? Of course. But, UConn's needs are different that Hartford's.
14) Pittsburgh PA (2,700,000): Consul 18,300; Attendance: 18,600 (NHL)

UConn is never leaving Hartford. Do you not get that? They're not building an arena smaller than Gampel, there is no sense to that.

 

[Dooley]

Just me dreaming, but if the state is going to build a new arena (something that I doubt will happen soon), I'd love to see it located near the Rent and designate that area as a "sports complex" (similar to Philadelphia). I'm sure the downtown Hartford businesses, especially the bars and restaurants, will fight tooth and nail to keep any new arena downtown. But as far as convenience of getting in and out go, having a sports complex located a stone's throw away from a major CT artery is a good idea. They could then build up that area with restaurants/bars/shopping/hotels similar to Patriot Place around Gillette. But to do all of this would probably require more land to be donated/sold by UTC.

 

[FartMan69]

Find that surprising with the Hartford-area's reported shrinking corporate base, rapidly aging population, etc., but will go with your view. Given mass rushes to the 'burbs each rush hour, sadly appearances whenever in Hartford suggest the city itself is on CPR despite recent efforts to inspire growth. As other messages suggest, perhaps not, yet it's challenging at best to believe anyone rationally believes an NHL franchise will return to Hartford. With only some UCONN games (hoops, hockey, and women's basketball), a struggling AHL team, some ice show, concerts, etc., what's the economic justification to build a large enough, 2020-competitive arena to potentially entice the NHL? Tough sell to other areas of CT too ...

Well the alternative is to knock it down and watch downtown be overrun with tumbleweeds. The building is literally falling apart and needs to be replaced. I get it you don't like Hartford but it has potential and a new arena is essential to keep people coming downtown. New Haven had the luxury of colleges, arts and restaurants and could afford to lose sports and entertainment, Hartford however is reliant on entertainment money and if taken away prepare to subsidize the city even more.

 

[CL82]

Well the alternative is to knock it down and watch downtown be overrun with tumbleweeds. The building is literally falling apart and needs to be replaced. I get it you don't like Hartford but it has potential and a new arena is essential to keep people coming downtown. New Haven had the luxury of colleges, arts and restaurants and could afford to lose sports and entertainment, Hartford however is reliant on entertainment money and if taken away prepare to subsidize the city even more.

If the viability of Hartford is based entirely on building a new state of the art arena without any sort of sensible projection that their will be some meaningful ROI then the buldozers should take out more than just the XL. I don't believe that to be true, however.

The notion that if I get what I want everything will suddenly turn out to be alright, not because of any logical reason but because I fervently want to it turn out that way is commonly called "magic thinking." It is more common in 3 year olds than in investors or city planners. Unfortunately is also fairly common in politicians, notably so in Hartford.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Well the alternative is to knock it down and watch downtown be overrun with tumbleweeds. The building is literally falling apart and needs to be replaced. I get it you don't like Hartford but it has potential and a new arena is essential to keep people coming downtown.

Reasonably, I may question what the state government or some one-time Whalers' fans may be smoking, but it's more pity than dislike for the city itself. Even if funded by some crazy investor deluded by visions of an NHL return, no doubt a new arena may help Hartford a bit. Tough sell for public funding, especially outside of Hartford County.

 

[Mr. Hand]

Reasonably, I may question what the state government or some one-time Whalers' fans may be smoking, but it's more pity than dislike for the city itself. Even if funded by some crazy investor deluded by visions of an NHL return, no doubt a new arena may help Hartford a bit. Tough sell for public funding, especially outside of Hartford County.

I agree. We're going to spend how much to benefit a few bars downtown?

 

[superjohn]

With Bettman in charge of the NHL, Hartford has 0% of getting a NHL team. Even if someone competent ran the NHL, Hartford chances are only slightly better as it is well behind the following cities (in no specific order): Quebec City, Toronto #2/Hamilton, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Seattle.

Let Hartford fix Hartford's issues. Build a 10K arena, which is comparable to similar cities have in the region (Providence, Manchester, Albany, etc.) and solidly the city's slot as a solid AHL team and other events. That will allow UConn to solve it's own needs for a larger on campus basketball (12K) and hockey (6K) arenas or arena. Storrs provides a better environment for the Huskies, anyway. Of course, with Connecticut politics involved, that's a pipedream.

10,000 seat arena, ummm no.

 

[uconnfan68]

Just me dreaming, but if the state is going to build a new arena (something that I doubt will happen soon), I'd love to see it located near the Rent and designate that area as a "sports complex" (similar to Philadelphia). I'm sure the downtown Hartford businesses, especially the bars and restaurants, will fight tooth and nail to keep any new arena downtown. But as far as convenience of getting in and out go, having a sports complex located a stone's throw away from a major CT artery is a good idea. They could then build up that area with restaurants/bars/shopping/hotels similar to Patriot Place around Gillette. But to do all of this would probably require more land to be donated/sold by UTC.

Put a tarp over the Rent and flood the field.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Just me dreaming, but if the state is going to build a new arena (something that I doubt will happen soon), I'd love to see it located near the Rent and designate that area as a "sports complex" (similar to Philadelphia). I'm sure the downtown Hartford businesses, especially the bars and restaurants, will fight tooth and nail to keep any new arena downtown. But as far as convenience of getting in and out go, having a sports complex located a stone's throw away from a major CT artery is a good idea. They could then build up that area with restaurants/bars/shopping/hotels similar to Patriot Place around Gillette. But to do all of this would probably require more land to be donated/sold by UTC.

What about next to the convention center? Can be used for convention events,too, and would help grow that part of the city into an entertainment district.

 

[Marty Jackson]

From a UConn perspective, I'm not sure what's the right answer.

If Connecticut builds a new arena, there is going to be an ass ton of pressure for UConn to put every possible basketball and hockey game in that building - and that's not a good thing for us.

of course it is... somehow UofL has done very well with the YUM center.
bring that guy in to work the numbers for Uconn. reported revenues could surpass Texas.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

of course it is... somehow UofL has done very well with the YUM center.
bring that guy in to work the numbers for Uconn. reported revenues could surpass Texas.

The Yum! Center is only about 5 miles from campus compared to 30 or so between Stores and the XL. As for revenue, it's all smoke and mirrors. The Cardinals got a sweetheart deal whee then keep most of ticket and confession revenue while the city gets stuck with all of the debt service. If the city lets the Yum controlling entity go into bankruptcy, the University's glowing revenue will take a major hit.