New XL Center

[FartMan69]

82/83: Bruins were 11th, Whalers were 19th out of 21 teams.
83/84: Bruins were 15th, Whalers were 18th.
84/85: Bruins were 15th, Whalers were 19th.
85/86: Whalers were 15th, Bruins were 18th
86/87: Whalers were 13th, Bruins were 18th
87/88: Whalers were 13th, Bruins were 16th
88/89: Bruins were 16th, Whalers were 18th

And then the bottom completely fell out of the Whalers fan base. They latched onto a winning bandwagon for a couple years and flamed right out of town. Boston and Chicago are in the original 6. To even mention Whaler attendance with either franchise is ridiculous.

If anything comparing them strengthens my point. Even OG6 fan bases don't show up for losers. We had a fan base that was young and had seen star after star traded or let go. Should the Penguins have moved in the early 2000's? How about moving the Isles and Devils out of the NY area? This is the largest market without a pro franchise and no ownership took advantage of that. With today's revenue sharing and salary cap a team could definitely work with the right people in place.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

As a person who loves cities and mixed use activity, Hartford frankly sucks. It has none of the energy that cities that are coming up fast have. (New Haven - for instance; Providence for sure)

Would a $500m Sports centered development change things? I have not seen that the City has any idea how to create the great things that are going on elsewhere or even aligning with groups that do that well. Look at the LWLP program at the old Coliseum site in NH. Transformative. I have little confidence that Hartford will ever pull that together. I see political crap and same ol'. The history across many US cities is about graft & corruption often. The answer is a Residential Walkable city focused on a demand driver like a large medical center (Yale New Haven again) or an urban University. With great dining and entertainment.

If one could role back the clock, Connecticut should have established one major city instead of 3 mid-major cities (Hartford, New Haven, Bridgeport), likely New haven would be it as its centrally located (east west) no too close to one of the borders and can still be linked by rail to New York. The state is too small in terms of populations and resources to support 3 mid-majors and a host of secondary cities (New Britain, New London, Waterbury, Norwalk, Stamford). A 'super' New Haven with East Haven, West Haven, and most of Hamden added to it would have the people and resources to rival Boston and there would be no question on it hosting major sport teams. All well.

New Haven was (and parts still are) a mess in the late 80's and most of the '90s'. The big change happened when Yale realized that it could not live behind its Ivy walls while the city fell apart and expect to survive. Thus, it partnered with New Haven and over the 20 years has truly transformed downtown. Hartford's downfall is that its downtown was built for business and only business so when globalization pulled many of the company's big corporate partners out of the city before the urban trend to pull residential dwelling back into the urban core in the 2000's. Corporations can move with relative ease. Universities can't.

PS - Providence is a lot like New Haven. Really nice downtown and up on Federal Hill and College Hill (Brown); but, parts are a mess, such as the neighborhood around Providence College.

 

[The Funster]

Move MSG up to Hartford

 

[Pudge]

I can tell you that the City of New Haven fears the power that Yale exerts. Having said that, this creates a unique opportunity for third party private developers. New Haven has gone through a recent period of swinging for the fences ... And I think they've got an interesting mix.

It doesn't hurt to be a mid-sized city where the Medical Center can grow to one of the largest & most important in the world. That has attracted great Capital.

 

[sledog]

BUT. the staff of the med center has deteriorated in past few years. The reason I've heard is the predictable: who wants to live in NH vs other (Ivy League) towns???

 

[DarthGrumpy]

BUT. the staff of the med center has deteriorated in past few years. The reason I've heard is the predictable: who wants to live in NH vs other (Ivy League) towns???

If that statement was from 20 years ago, I would not be surprised. Today, after all the money that Yale and others have put into downtown New Haven, it would fin that surprising. Not everyone will want to work in the middle of nowhere (Cornell, Dartmouth) or wants/afford a major city (Penn, Columbia, Harvard), while Princeton is a great small college town, it has no medical school. That leaves Brown and Yale as the Ivies in a midsize city that allows for a slower pace at a much lower cost, compared to Boston and NYC respectively, and still provides world class education.

 

[Palatine]

Check your facts. Hartford didn't support the Whalers for a long time. From 91 to 95 they were bottom 3 in NHL attendance. In 93/94, they trailed only
Ottawa in attendance and only bumped it up their final year in a toothless attempt to keep a team that was already gone.

The Whalers won one play off series in their NHL existence in Hartford. ONE!! They still averaged close to 14,000 a game in their last season. That is phenomenal support for a crappy product.

 

[FartMan69]

The Whalers won one play off series in their NHL existence in Hartford. ONE!! They still averaged close to 14,000 a game in their last season. That is phenomenal support for a crappy product.

Also Karmanos refused to count the skybox's in the attendance numbers. No franchise had a worst string of ownership than the Whale.

 

[August_West]

The Whalers won one play off series in their NHL existence in Hartford. ONE!! They still averaged close to 14,000 a game in their last season. That is phenomenal support for a crappy product.

And we threw them a parade. They are the Syracuse t shirt of hockey.


Problem was 1/2 the crowd were b's and ranger fans at heart

 

[whaler11]

This might come as news but this market doesn't support bad teams.

You couldn't fill the HCC with the crowds that saw the end of the season at Rentschler.

The NHL isn't coming back so it's not worth worrying about but it's a better market than some cities that have teams. Not a ton of them, but some.

 

[FartMan69]

This might come as news but this market doesn't support bad teams.

This is the UConn football board right? You couldn't fill the HCC with the crowds that saw the end of the season at Rentschler.

The NHL isn't coming back so it's not worth worrying about but it's a better market than some cities that have teams. Not a ton of them, but some.

Nah this is the basketball board but but not supporting a bad team isn't exclusive to this market. Name a team and they've had bad stretches of attendance at some point in time.

 

[whaler11]

Nah this is the basketball board but but not supporting a bad team isn't exclusive to this market. Name a team and they've had bad stretches of attendance at some point in time.

It let me edit my misstep. Thx.

It isn't exclusive to this market... but we are severe and a bit ahead of the curve. Today people seem to understand it better but that general acceptance is newer.

 

[MattMang23]

Forgot where I saw it in this thread, but yes, the arena should be near the convention center. In fact, it should BE the convention center. That center was a mistake. The arena should have been built there, or at least an arena/convention center one on top of the other, akin to MSG's arena/theater setup. The parking garage next door is fine, but could have added a few extra levels to accommodate arena parking. And the proximity to the highway is perfect.

 

[specialisthusky]

Forgot where I saw it in this thread, but yes, the arena should be near the convention center. In fact, it should BE the convention center. That center was a mistake. The arena should have been built there, or at least an arena/convention center one on top of the other, akin to MSG's arena/theater setup. The parking garage next door is fine, but could have added a few extra levels to accommodate arena parking. And the proximity to the highway is perfect.

I wouldn't call the convention center a mistake. Its been successful in bringing people to the city and sparking development in the Adrian's Landing area.

The original plan included the NFL stadium Kraft "considered" so no one is going to disagree that the location is ideal, just the timing has passed. The two options i see possible downtown other than the current location is in the downtown north area that broke ground yesterday or near the capital building where there is an abundance of parking lots. A third option may be corner of Morgan and main, where dirt lot and a parking garage sit.

 

[CTMike]

Hartford would be much better off investing in the burying of 84 and 91 than in sponsoring an elaborate arena. At least with 84 they actually have a chance to do it and they'll blow it.

 

[TheDoggPound]

The new facility will be constructed with NHL in mind. Those hoping for a scaled back arena will be severely disappointed. CRDA will be making it's presentation tmrw 6pm @ the Convention Center.

 

[CTMike]

Tell us more, DoggPound...

 

[superjohn]

The new facility will be constructed with NHL in mind. Those hoping for a scaled back arena will be severely disappointed. CRDA will be making it's presentation tmrw 6pm @ the Convention Center.

I hope you are right, I'm so sick of Connecticut thinking small time.

 

[FartMan69]

Still not convinced the state isn't just going to slap even more lipstick on this pig to create the illusion of saving money. If they keep dressing this thing up they'll have to send it to senior prom, wouldn't get laid though.

 

[Waquoit]

The Whalers won one play off series in their NHL existence in Hartford. ONE!! They still averaged close to 14,000 a game in their last season. That is phenomenal support for a crappy product.

The actually drew more those last two years. Those Compuware pr!cks did not include the Skybox and club seats in their attendance figures.

 

[FartMan69]

Hartford would be much better off investing in the burying of 84 and 91 than in sponsoring an elaborate arena. At least with 84 they actually have a chance to do it and they'll blow it.

Whoever's idea it was to put an interstate through the middle of the city should have been shot.

 

[TheDoggPound]

I hope you are right, I'm so sick of Connecticut thinking small time.

Just read what Friemuth is saying and has said. "We know the building needs to be NHL-ready" "We know the building can't be a barrier for a professional team" "I believe the market exist".

Then the simple fact is they consulted SCI who writes the facility standards for the NHL and their buildings, that alone speaks for itself + there's the 2-3 investor groups who are likely waiting for the dust to settle on the arena front before formally announcing their intentions.

Hartford is getting back in the game. Tomorrow will be the first step.

 

[FartMan69]

Just read what Friemuth is saying and has said. "We know the building needs to be NHL-ready" "We know the building can't be a barrier for a professional team" "I believe the market exist".

Then the simple fact is they consulted SCI who writes the facility standards for the NHL and their buildings, that alone speaks for itself + there's the 2-3 investor groups who are likely waiting for the dust to settle on the arena front before formally announcing their intentions.

Hartford is getting back in the game. Tomorrow will be the first step.

I still don't understand why they needed to hire a consulting firm to tell them you need a new building for the NHL. Like did they not know what type of dynamite to use?

 

[whaler11]

I still don't understand why they needed to hire a consulting firm to tell them you need a new building for the NHL. Like did they not know what type of dynamite to use?

Because the person who had the ability to approve paying the consultants might someday need a favor from the consultants.

 

[The Viking]

No. A Whalers fan, and realistic to know that Hartford didn't support that team and doesn't deserve another one.

You've said before you are a Whalers fan and I don't buy it. Bruins? Rangers? Islanders?
I find it hard to believe an actual Whalers fan would say CT doesn't "Deserve" another pro team, as if we were given some great teams to root for but didn't show up. The Whale sucked for 85-90% of the seasons they were here.

Pittsburg was a disgrace attendance-wise for many years. Then Mario Lemieux skated into town and the entire city became big into hockey.

I'm not saying we need Mario Lemieux to come here to save pro-hockey but how about, oh I don't know, making the playoffs more than 2 or 3 times in 2 decades???