New League Proposal | Page 2 | The Boneyard

New League Proposal

Rappin'Rodney said:
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This is basically what a lot of us have been saying. The P2 path football is on will annihilate the sport. Splitting football off, implementing at least some level of revenue sharing, and organizing it into coherent divisions would increase fan interest and improve the value of the overall product.

Or Michigan, Ohio State, Georgia and Alabama can shrink college sports to a 4 team league where they just play themselves over and over, and see how many people watch that product.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Football splitting off will still probably result in a P# and G# split. I don't see how G5 and even some P4 schools will be able to or want to compete with a $20 or $40 million annual payroll for a Michigan or USC or Alabama. There is no point to trying.
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Who says everyone wants to compete annually? Get in, make sure the check clears, and hope a good coach hits on a strong recruiting cycle once in awhile. It works for the small market mlb baseball teams. If I am northwestern, I get in, receive payment, and try to be good once a decade.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
This is basically what a lot of us have been saying. The P2 path football is on will annihilate the sport. Splitting football off, implementing at least some level of revenue sharing, and organizing it into coherent divisions would increase fan interest and improve the value of the overall product.

Or Michigan, Ohio State, Georgia and Alabama can shrink college sports to a 4 team league where they just play themselves over and over, and see how many people watch that product.
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Also, look at NFL rosters. They are full of non-P2 players, and more and more are going to look like they are P2, but are really just one year transfers after succeeding at a lower level. Unless the P2 ups their rosters to 250 players (in which case hundreds/thousands won't even play) there are going to be plenty of good players outside of their league.
 
Been looking at that article a bit more closely to make some maps. So Army and Air Force are listed in the Group of 8 regions graphic (without being tied to a region), but they get to "play up" every year from that group. So who is missing from this list......Tulane! That's gotta make the Green Wave seeing red. However if you count all the G8 schools and add Army, , and Tulane, you'll get 64. Wonder their fanbase is thinking at the graphical omission.

Honestly, these (G8) are the teams we're currently comparable with, but by no means is the list we should be content with being stuck with. If those Power12 regions expand to 7 teams each (84 total teams), I gotta think we get slotted assuming that East bracket reflects more of a Northeast with Army, BC (dammit, I didn't want to include them), UConn, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, and Syracuse. Throw in Maryland and West Virginia, and you got a solid athletic conference, which won't happen, but it's nice to dream.
 
KryHavok said:
Been looking at that article a bit more closely to make some maps. So Army and Air Force are listed in the Group of 8 regions graphic (without being tied to a region), but they get to "play up" every year from that group. So who is missing from this list......Tulane! That's gotta make the Green Wave seeing red. However if you count all the G8 schools and add Army, , and Tulane, you'll get 64. Wonder their fanbase is thinking at the graphical omission.

Honestly, these (G8) are the teams we're currently comparable with, but by no means is the list we should be content with being stuck with. If those Power12 regions expand to 7 teams each (84 total teams), I gotta think we get slotted assuming that East bracket reflects more of a Northeast with Army, BC (dammit, I didn't want to include them), UConn, Rutgers, Penn State, Pitt, and Syracuse. Throw in Maryland and West Virginia, and you got a solid athletic conference, which won't happen, but it's nice to dream.
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If that was UConn's actual fate, football would be over within 10 years. No way an annual diet of those G8 schools alone would keep fans engaged. Frankly, I'm bored just thinking about playing those teams in our division every year (and having to play Liberty ad infinitum is just awful). It's just not a fair setup, because you can never graduate to a more interesting schedule no matter how much the program improves. It's always gonna be G8 teams, most of whom feel like small colleges compared to UConn. There has to be a way to move up at some point, instead of permanently taking a back seat to even long-term Power 8 dregs, plus the military academies, who automatically get slotted into the Play-Up group every season. Even the format is bogus - moving teams up for the following season doesn't mean those teams will be as good the following season. A lot of them will just get pounded, while currently good teams have to wait a year and maybe wither on the vine.

Hate it. Hate everything about it and everyone who screwed UConn over to put us here.
 
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noeynox said:
Am i missing something? Where are Army and Air Force slotted to play?
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Army and Air Force would play every season as a G8 team with a "Play Up" schedule, which fluctuates from year to year depending on where G8 teams finished the year before. (I couldn't figure out exactly how it all gets determined, though, in terms of G8 playoffs and the CFP slots, and exactly when any G8 team gets to play a P8 team. It felt convoluted. I think it's really a relegation model with very little cross-pollination at all in terms of scheduling.)

Tulane isn't on there either. I'm assuming they'd be in the G8.
 
ninety-nine said:
Army and Air Force would play every season as a G8 team with a "Play Up" schedule, which fluctuates from year to year depending on where G8 teams finished the year before. (I couldn't figure out exactly how it all gets determined, though, in terms of G8 playoffs and the CFP slots, and exactly when any G8 team gets to play a P8 team. It felt convoluted. I think it's really a relegation model with very little cross-pollination at all in terms of scheduling.)

Tulane isn't on there either. I'm assuming they'd be in the G8.
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Except its a relegation model where P12 would never get relegated. That has to be DOA.
 
noeynox said:
Except its a relegation model where P12 would never get relegated. That has to be DOA.
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Oh, yes, let me clarify. It's a permanent relegation model for all G8 teams, with essentially an upper and lower G8 league that programs can "play up" into and then fall out of. P8 teams are locked into permanent upper-class status. Proposed by our friends from the ACC, I understand.

Seems like there might be two spots in the playoff for G8 teams, and that those might be the only games in which a G8 team ever plays a P8 team. It's not super clear, as they don't seem to have put much thought into the lower-tier schools (as evidenced by them leaving Tulane off the graphic).
 
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ninety-nine said:
Army and Air Force would play every season as a G8 team with a "Play Up" schedule, which fluctuates from year to year depending on where G8 teams finished the year before. (I couldn't figure out exactly how it all gets determined, though, in terms of G8 playoffs and the CFP slots, and exactly when any G8 team gets to play a P8 team. It felt convoluted. I think it's really a relegation model with very little cross-pollination at all in terms of scheduling.)

Tulane isn't on there either. I'm assuming they'd be in the G8.
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It is only a real proposal if teams on the upper level can drop to the G8 level if they have a bad year. Same for teams currently in the G8 level that can move up with a good year.

This permanent staying in the upper level for some teams is a complete BS. There are many teams deemed in the upper level that are much lesser brand name than UConn with smaller athletic budget. Putting those teams in the upper level over UConn is a non-starter.
 
WestCoastHusky said:
It is only a real proposal if teams on the upper level can drop to the G8 level if they have a bad year. Same for teams currently in the G8 level that can move up with a good year.

This permanent staying in the upper level for some teams is a complete BS. There are many teams deemed in the upper level that are much lesser brand name than UConn with smaller athletic budget. Putting those teams in the upper level over UConn is a non-starter.
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I am not sure why anyone is getting upset about which team is in which bucket or the rules between the upper and lower levels. There is so much that needs to happen before we get to that point, that it is certain to be completely different by the time we get there.

The two big points are:

1) Recognition by major programs that college football is facing an existential problem, and
2) A willingness to break football off from the rest of sports.

These are two really, really big developments in UConn's favor. There is no point in getting worked up about someone's prediction of the future details, because those are going to change.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
This is a really big deal. Two school Presidents are going on the record predicting the "implosion of FBS". This means that they don't think this is something that may happen someday, they think this is imminent.

This is UConn's best hope for a conference solution.
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If Gordon Gee wasn't one of the names associated with this I would give the idea some credibility. He's spent the past two decades being an attention whore, spewing alarmist notions about college football (beginning when he claimed Vanderbilt would leave the SEC and reruit Duke, Tulane, Rice, Wake & Emory to form southern ivy league).

He's the only school president I know of who in two consecutive moves stepped down in quality of school he was leading.
 
KryHavok said:
Whoa there partner, I agree with most of what you wrote except one tiny part. The mafia have some sense of honor and respect (as twisted as it seems, and not like I'm a card carrying member), whereas the BIGSEC doesn't. Thing is though, the rabid fansbases are right in BIGSEC territory, so the TV eyes aren't going to precipitously drop, unfortunately.

Ahhh, Syracuse was involved...that would be another reason why UConn was kept out of the Group of 12. No bias there, nope.
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You got that right! They hate our success, pure and simple!

Remember, they were part of the BB royalty in the old BE and we completely eclipsed them. In football. they haven't won a Natty since the 50's (same decade Princeton last won a Natty in football)!

Speaking of football, when we got hosed conference wise, in 2011 and 2012, we were in the midst of a 6 game winning streak vs. Syracuse. In BB, it hasn't been close for decades - 6 Natty's in the last 25 years to their 1 more than 20 yrs ago!

In addition, it is a $90k/yr, second-tier, private institution in the hell-hole city of Syracuse. The only thing Syracuse is rated number 1 in is having the worst weather of any college in the U.S. They are envious of our better academic standing, attractiveness and relative bargain cost. They despise us for our great success in BB and our current dominance of the MSG market. OTOH, they haven't done much in their own conference and don't really move the needle.

As was noted, I do believe they are working to organize something so they don't get left behind. They remind me of the guy who tried to organize a men's league team (you pick the sport), so he could guarantee himself a place to play. They can't get there on merit or value. They figure they'll do the leg work and the important participants will toss them a bone in the form of a slot.

People say we should be nice so they may help our cause. Don't count on it - I believe UConn is considered a threat to them. They may say this or that but expect it to be BS. On the bright side, a reckoning is coming. Eventually, all will be judged by their relative merit and value or lack thereof.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
If Gordon Gee wasn't one of the names associated with this I would give the idea some credibility. He's spent the past two decades being an attention whore, spewing alarmist notions about college football (beginning when he claimed Vanderbilt would leave the SEC and reruit Duke, Tulane, Rice, Wake & Emory to form southern ivy league).

He's the only school president I know of who in two consecutive moves stepped down in quality of school he was leading.
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Never heard that about a Southern Ivy.
 
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Sea Goat said:
You got that right! They hate our success, pure and simple!

Remember, they were part of the BB royalty in the old BE and we completely eclipsed them. In football. they haven't won a Natty since the 50's (same decade Princeton last won a Natty in football)!

Speaking of football, when we got hosed conference wise, in 2011 and 2012, we were in the midst of a 6 game winning streak vs. Syracuse. In BB, it hasn't been close for decades - 6 Natty's in the last 25 years to their 1 more than 20 yrs ago!

In addition, it is a $90k/yr, second-tier, private institution in the hell-hole city of Syracuse. The only thing Syracuse is rated number 1 in is having the worst weather of any college in the U.S. They are envious of our better academic standing, attractiveness and relative bargain cost. They despise us for our great success in BB and our current dominance of the MSG market. OTOH, they haven't done much in their own conference and don't really move the needle.

As was noted, I do believe they are working to organize something so they don't get left behind. They remind me of the guy who tried to organize a men's league team (you pick the sport), so he could guarantee himself a place to play. They can't get there on merit or value. They figure they'll do the leg work and the important participants will toss them a bone in the form of a slot.

People say we should be nice so they may help our cause. Don't count on it - I believe UConn is considered a threat to them. They may say this or that but expect it to be BS. On the bright side, a reckoning is coming. Eventually, all will be judged by their relative merit and value or lack thereof.
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I literally pictured them laughing amongst themselves as they assigned UConn -- permanently -- to the kiddie table with UMass and Delaware. BC consultants were probably on speakerphone egging them on and shouting out the names of the most obscure directional schools and FCS call-up candidates they could think of. I get that this is essentially a draft proposal and a jumping-off point for discussions, but still, starting us out in the lower tier makes it easier for the powers-that-be to simply overlook us in future negotiations, ratifying UConn's previous near-misses with the Big 12 and ACC. It creates a presumption that we belong in the lower decks, not just now, but for good.
 
ninety-nine said:
I literally pictured them laughing amongst themselves as they assigned UConn -- permanently -- to the kiddie table with UMass and Delaware. BC consultants were probably on speakerphone egging them on and shouting out the names of the most obscure directional schools and FCS call-up candidates they could think of. I get that this is essentially a draft proposal and a jumping-off point for discussions, but still, starting us out in the lower tier makes it easier for the powers-that-be to simply overlook us in future negotiations, ratifying UConn's previous near-misses with the Big 12 and ACC. It creates a presumption that we belong in the lower decks, not just now, but for good.
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They put us first on the list so everyone would see it.
 
noeynox said:
Never heard that about a Southern Ivy.
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It happened in the middle of the football season around 2005 or 2006. While the SEC was working overtime promoting the football programs within the conference (as they were locked out of the BCS championship after the 2004 season even though they had an unbeaten team as conference champion) Gee decided to tell the world that he wanted to have Vandy leave the SEC and join other southern private, high academic schools (I listed the schools he named) to create a southern version of the ivy league. The thing was when he made that announcement he hadn't informed his employer or any of the other schools that he mentioned. It was an attention grab that infuriated the SEC commissioner (Slive?) and led to his departure from Vandy a little more than a year later.
 
ninety-nine said:
I literally pictured them laughing amongst themselves as they assigned UConn -- permanently -- to the kiddie table with UMass and Delaware. BC consultants were probably on speakerphone egging them on and shouting out the names of the most obscure directional schools and FCS call-up candidates they could think of. I get that this is essentially a draft proposal and a jumping-off point for discussions, but still, starting us out in the lower tier makes it easier for the powers-that-be to simply overlook us in future negotiations, ratifying UConn's previous near-misses with the Big 12 and ACC. It creates a presumption that we belong in the lower decks, not just now, but for good.
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We need BB to be monetized like the CFP. Once that happens we'll be calling shots and the worm will turn. Don't forget - Syracuse and BC bring nothing to the table. Eventually, that will be their death knell...
 
Sea Goat said:
You got that right! They hate our success, pure and simple!

Remember, they were part of the BB royalty in the old BE and we completely eclipsed them. In football. they haven't won a Natty since the 50's (same decade Princeton last won a Natty in football)!

Speaking of football, when we got hosed conference wise, in 2011 and 2012, we were in the midst of a 6 game winning streak vs. Syracuse. In BB, it hasn't been close for decades - 6 Natty's in the last 25 years to their 1 more than 20 yrs ago!

In addition, it is a $90k/yr, second-tier, private institution in the hell-hole city of Syracuse. The only thing Syracuse is rated number 1 in is having the worst weather of any college in the U.S. They are envious of our better academic standing, attractiveness and relative bargain cost. They despise us for our great success in BB and our current dominance of the MSG market. OTOH, they haven't done much in their own conference and don't really move the needle.

As was noted, I do believe they are working to organize something so they don't get left behind. They remind me of the guy who tried to organize a men's league team (you pick the sport), so he could guarantee himself a place to play. They can't get there on merit or value. They figure they'll do the leg work and the important participants will toss them a bone in the form of a slot.

People say we should be nice so they may help our cause. Don't count on it - I believe UConn is considered a threat to them. They may say this or that but expect it to be BS. On the bright side, a reckoning is coming. Eventually, all will be judged by their relative merit and value or lack thereof.
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This is what I thought too. They tried to screw us by creating this ridiculous perception about our football program. Frankly, I see UConn football having a much higher ceiling than Cuse just based on the fact we are a flagship University in a state without pro football teams while they are just an overpriced private school.

The fact no one in the upper tier can get booted down to G8 is total bs. No one gonna convince me a school like BCU or Cuse should be worth more than UConn in anything. If schools suck in the higher tier, they should get knocked down to G8 while teams that perform olin G8 should move up.
 
WestCoastHusky said:
This is what I thought too. They tried to screw us by creating this ridiculous perception about our football program. Frankly, I see UConn football having a much higher ceiling than Cuse just based on the fact we are a flagship University in a state without pro football teams while they are just an overpriced private school.

The fact no one in the upper tier can get booted down to G8 is total bs. No one gonna convince me a school like BCU or Cuse should be worth more than UConn in anything. If schools suck in the higher tier, they should get knocked down to G8 while teams that perform olin G8 should move up.
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Absolutely! In particular, Syracuse is an over priced, marginal private school located in a depressing, declining city. There is no cachet ( the emperor has no clothes...)
WestCoastHusky said:
The fact that UConn is in the G5 division of total bs as a starter. This is why we need to be in a Px conference ASAP.

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Lamont needs to get active now! BTW, Ned this could be a signature accomplishment for your tenure.
 
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FfldCntyFan said:
It happened in the middle of the football season around 2005 or 2006. While the SEC was working overtime promoting the football programs within the conference (as they were locked out of the BCS championship after the 2004 season even though they had an unbeaten team as conference champion) Gee decided to tell the world that he wanted to have Vandy leave the SEC and join other southern private, high academic schools (I listed the schools he named) to create a southern version of the ivy league. The thing was when he made that announcement he hadn't informed his employer or any of the other schools that he mentioned. It was an attention grab that infuriated the SEC commissioner (Slive?) and led to his departure from Vandy a little more than a year later.
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The Magnolia Conference
 
… and another: Project Rudy



-> Project Rudy is built on two somewhat simple concepts to increase revenue from television networks and corporate sponsors.

(1) Arrange more games between power conference programs by eliminating all games against Group of Five and FCS opponents; expanding the playoffs; and pitting blue-blood powers more often against one another.

(2) Consolidate the media rights of the 70 schools under one agreement, instead of the current structure of five different packages (one for each power league and Notre Dame).<-
 
huskymedic said:
… and another: Project Rudy



-> Project Rudy is built on two somewhat simple concepts to increase revenue from television networks and corporate sponsors.

(1) Arrange more games between power conference programs by eliminating all games against Group of Five and FCS opponents; expanding the playoffs; and pitting blue-blood powers more often against one another.

(2) Consolidate the media rights of the 70 schools under one agreement, instead of the current structure of five different packages (one for each power league and Notre Dame).<-
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Yeah, forget that. I’d rather the P2 split happen. Why should BC, Cuse, SMU be saved over G5 schools?
 
huskymedic said:
… and another: Project Rudy



-> Project Rudy is built on two somewhat simple concepts to increase revenue from television networks and corporate sponsors.

(1) Arrange more games between power conference programs by eliminating all games against Group of Five and FCS opponents; expanding the playoffs; and pitting blue-blood powers more often against one another.

(2) Consolidate the media rights of the 70 schools under one agreement, instead of the current structure of five different packages (one for each power league and Notre Dame).<-
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There's a difference between a bunch of G8 or low P4 putting together a plan to allocate power from the halves to the have nots and a proposal to give the halves more money, skimming off the deadweight, further disenfranchising goes without power made by people who are actually going to foot the bills.

The former is a fantasy, borne out of flop sweat and desperation. The latter is an opportunity for the haves to have more at the expensive everyone else. Of the two one is significantly more likely than the other.
 
The deck describes the model as a win for all sides: schools, fans, networks and, of course, the athletes.
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What a load of crock. A "win" for all sides?!?! It's a win only for the Px schools (many of whom have sucked as long as we've struggled) while nearly half of FBS get left out. So we're going to Px legacies (the chosen), Div 1-A again (Group of 5 soon aka Group of 8 aka the castaways), and then the rest such as FCS, etc. The G5s will play more FCS teams then, that's the win for schools and fans?!?!?

Yormack finally said something I agree with.
“One thing is for sure: Fans don’t want an artificial championship,” Big 12 commissioner Brett Yormark told the Houston Chronicle over the weekend. “They want a real championship just like every other sport. There are no free passes. Let’s earn it.”
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CL82 said:
There's a difference between a bunch of G8 or low P4 putting together a plan to allocate power from the halves to the have nots and a proposal to give the halves more money, skimming off the deadweight, further disenfranchising goes without power made by people who are actually going to foot the bills.

The former is a fantasy, borne out of flop sweat and desperation. The latter is an opportunity for the haves to have more at the expensive everyone else. Of the two one is significantly more likely than the other.
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Halves?
 
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