ND - Game is More Important for UConn

[Kibitzer]

I guess this NC-UConn thing started when ND (out in Indiana) joined the Big East. Except, of course, for football, and Geno often expressed his scorn over that. And over the years, the association between ND and the Big East (including she schools, like them, in the midwest) was good for everyone. ND even won an NC by beating an excellent UConn team.

More recently, the Big East disinteegrated and ND joined the ACC, except of course for football. Before leaving ND had a good run vs. UConn (except for that last try) that was great for wcbb.

About a year ago, Muffet dropped an astonishing line (in the interest of full disclosure, I didn't believe her), that she was getting pressured by the ACC to schedule UConn. Huh?

Turn the page and you read that Deb Corum (of UConn) says she can't connect with ND about playing again. Almost magically, ND denies this and Lo and Behold, the series is resumed, starting next year at ND. Muffet herself said they haven't yet nailed down the date because "ESPN is involved." hmmmmm

Now she states how UConn really needs this game. And, here on the Boneyard, I read how we are now DOOMED in our recruiting and OOC scheduling because we aren't in a power conference.

Which I think is a bunch of baloney.

 

[doggydaddy]

I think it's important to consider why these games are important for Notre Dame.
Why did she make it, despite the snide (even if true) remark
.
And that reason plain and simple is ambition.
She's beaten Geno a ton in recent seasons but lost the big one and wound up with little credit.

Her Notre Dame squads, like our's are always competitive.
She's tired of being #2 (3-4-5?).
The only route to being considered the best is through UConn, hence the renewal.

Making these games is central to Muffit's legacy.

Based on players lost and returning players, it could be ugly next year. Not much help to her legacy.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Well, ND hasn't made it to an FF yet as an ACC team, so before everyone goes kowtowing to the almightiness of the ACC, or gives any credence to whoever would say that the SEC is a power conference, shouldn't we get some proof that the teams from these conferences can get to the top level and that they are where the scheduling lies?

It's not a secret that the SEC has not had an FF team since UTenn won its last title in 2008, a lengthy span of 5 tourneys that would have once been deemed unthinkable. The ACC has been even worse, since it has had no top level team that could make it to the FF in the last 6 tourneys. UNC back in 2007 was the last ACC FF team, and none have been in the NC game since 2006.

We can make guesses about a rosy future for the ACC, but until anything good happens it's still a sadly underachieving conference that has been eaten up by the old BEast-new AAC, B12, and PAC when it comes to representing at the top. The B10 is of course not even on the charts.

So the ACC needs some credibility, and the best way to get it is for the scramble of ACC teams to get an appearance with UConn's traveling show and prove that they're players on the national scene. Otherwise you will just have the UConn-AAC \ B12 \ PAC big games dominating the national stage and the fading SEC and the recently stagnant ACC.

 

[jsloanjr]

Unlike UCONN's WCBB, UCONN does not kiss ND' ass.....I wish ND well in the ACC, but UCONN will escape this AAC after next season IMO.........Legal issues and $$$ will keep them from running away after this season.........UCONN will have the last laugh..........WM, is on the loose

 

[FASTEDDY]

This is just more reaon why I absolutely HATE Notre Dame. I HATE their condescending attitude in most everythign that they do. Their football team has barely been relevant on the national scale over the past 20 years (they have had a few good years) but they continue to act like they're dominant. Same thing here. ND has 1 title in all these years and they are talking smack against UCONN the absolute dominant foce in all of Women's B-Ball. ND is arrogant to the max.

 

[sivad40]

Unlike UCONN's WCBB, UCONN does not kiss ND' ass.....I wish ND well in the ACC, but UCONN will escape this AAC after next season IMO.........Legal issues and $ will keep them from running away after this season.........UCONN will have the last laugh..........WM, is on the loose

What conference is UConn going to or are they going to wing it as an independent? You have to look it from what's beneficial for all of sports program and not just best for WCBB.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I considered Muffett's statement arrogant as just a couple of weeks ago, Notre Dame was outraged that UConn said they weren't interested in the game. Now they try to imply the game doesn't mean anything to them and they're just doing it as a favor for UConn as they need the game more then they do. Rubbish. As doggydaddy said it was a statement that didn't have to be said. It was just as easy to say, the game is what's best for WBB and that is very true.

Muffett pretty much said the game was good for WCBB if you read the whole article. Trouble is Muffet can be snippy and that last line was snippy. I suspect she is still smarting from not beating UConn when everything was on the line.

 

[oneresult]

One statement: the big gals [ACC,Big10,SEC & PAC10} drop uconn, espn goes that route
So SNY broadcast all Uconn games across the USA just the recruits
see them. ESPN goes Bullestick [No big bucks,rateings drop,big buildup for SNY] see how fast they put the presure on Everybody
Have fun with this one...

 

[UcMiami]

I think all you have to do is look at Stanford to see that 'weak conference' is not that big a deal or look at PSU/OSU. Neither the Big10 or the Pac12 have been very impressive for a long time in WCBB. And heck - when was the last time the SEC sent a school to the FF? Or the BE for a large stretch of time.
As long as Geno is around and keeps winning NCs the AAC will do fine in WCBB. And great players that want to be greater will come to Uconn.

 

[hussybulldog]

I think it's important to consider why these games are important for Notre Dame.
Why did she make it, despite the snide (even if true) remark
.
And that reason plain and simple is ambition.
She's beaten Geno a ton in recent seasons but lost the big one and wound up with little credit.

Her Notre Dame squads, like our's are always competitive.
She's tired of being #2 (3-4-5?).
The only route to being considered the best is through UConn, hence the renewal.

Making these games is central to Muffit's legacy.

My take is that ND/Muffit have taken out UConn in regular season, BE championships and semi-finals at NCAA (three times), so she does not need to schedule a regular season game with UConn to prove anything other than adding a possible loss on the record. All she needs is a win against UConn in NCAA final hence not eager to play UConn unless it is for the NCAA championship

 

[cabbie191]

[quote="Kibitzer, post: 796310, member: 30" Now she states how UConn really needs this game.


Here the quote:

"I think this game is probably more important for Connecticut than us. The conference they’re in is not as strong as the ACC.”

I don't think this phrasing quite equates to her saying UConn really needs this game.

Maybe I'm not bothered by it because I am in agreement with those who say that absent strong teams in our new conference, the strength of our OOC schedule is relatively more important

 

[Tenspro2002]

Our conference is terrible and that isn't going to change any time soon. The question going forward is the following:

Are we going to become the "Notre Dame football" of women's basketball, where conference affiliation means nothing, we're universally recognized as the king of the sport, and everyone wants to schedule us OOC because they know it's beneficial for them to be associated with us?

Or, like an earlier poster suggested, without the high-quality opponents presented to us systematically through a strong conference, do we fade into irrelevance in the manner of ODU and LaTech? (This likely requires a conspiracy on the part of the other powers in the sport to make sure the first scenario doesn't occur.)

 

[Oxford Bob]

What Muffit doesn't mention is that UConn basically wins the ACC every year, since we continually beat the top 3-4 teams from that conference almost every year.

 

[Waquoit]

Now she states how UConn really needs this game. And, here on the Boneyard, I read how we are now DOOMED in our recruiting and OOC scheduling because we aren't in a power conference.

UConn will be a powerhouse as long as Geno is around. If we are in the AAC after he retires, it's over (see Tech, Louisiana).

 

[RockyMTblue2]

One statement: the big gals [ACC,Big10,SEC & PAC10} drop uconn, espn go's that route
So SNY broadcast all Uconn games across the USA just the recruits
see them. ESPN go'es Bullestick [No big bucks,rateings drop,big buildup for SNY] see how fast they put the presure on Everybody
Have fun with this one...

go's is spelled goes ... the rest I can't help you with.

 

[psconn]

"But you seem to be the one endlessly repeating it."

I was waiting for this tired rhetorical ploy. Please. Be real. You know that this discussion is not impactful, and that the "endless repetitions" I refer to are opposing coaches in the recruiting process. And you don't really believe I'm the only one saying this, do you.
-30-

 

[UcMiami]

Our conference is terrible and that isn't going to change any time soon. The question going forward is the following:

Are we going to become the "Notre Dame football" of women's basketball, where conference affiliation means nothing, we're universally recognized as the king of the sport, and everyone wants to schedule us OOC because they know it's beneficial for them to be associated with us?

Or, like an earlier poster suggested, without the high-quality opponents presented to us systematically through a strong conference, do we fade into irrelevance in the manner of ODU and LaTech? (This likely requires a conspiracy on the part of the other powers in the sport to make sure the first scenario doesn't occur.)

Our conference was terrible before and we thrived, and there are a number of teams who have been good in a power conference and gone the way of LaTech and ODU, so I don't really see the conference as being that big a deal while Geno is around. He still gets more good players into the W and onto the Olympic team than any other coach and a player that has that ambition will still want to be coached by him.

And I would say Uconn is already the ND football of Women's college basketball - ambitious coaches want to play Uconn because while everyone rags on the 'learning experience' post game quotes, there is real truth in them. Watching Moriah yesterday in the second half force a turnover on the inbounds after a made basket while her team is up 30 is something you can talk to you team about, but let them experience that on the court at their expense is definitely a way to get their attention. Jeff having the Louisville team watch a Uconn practice during his first year is something that helped him change the culture. And forcing a turnover in full court pressure against Uconn is also something you can build on.

Geno talks about first trips to the FF and how it is hard to be ready the first time, and it getting easier as you repeat. Same can be said of playing Uconn. ND lost 12 straight to Uconn from 2005 - 2011 BE tournament. But they finally broke through and proceeded to win 7 of 9. I really believe if they hadn't played three times already in 2011 they do not win the fourth game because they learned.

 

[Kibitzer]

Every single wcbb team will experience an approximately 100% turnover in four years (allowance for red shirts, etc.). Put another way, in only two years each will be significantly changed by the results of the combination of losses (graduation, transfer, injury, etc.) and additions (mostly by recruitment).

It does not stretch my imagination to visualize improvement in the quality of AAC wcbb teams, individually and perhaps collectively, stimulated ("inspired" may overstate) by the UConn example.

These schools are ambitiously jumping upward in their scheduling and conference affiliation. If their administration(s) are committed wo wcbb, they may be ready to go toe-to-toe with PAC-10, Big 12, Big 10, etc., soon. I believe it is certainly possible, perhaps likely.

Well, let's watch and see.

 

[DobbsRover2]

FWIW I see nothing wrong with her comments. She's correct - UCONN needs the game more than ND. Once RU and L'ville leave, the AAC will be a conference left with no one sniffing the top 25 except UCONN. While the ACC will have ND, Duke, Maryland, UNC, Syracuse, FSU, and NC State (currently every one of those teams are in the top 25 except NC State who is 11-1). The ACC is easily the strongest conference in WCBB, and it's not even close to whoever is 2nd...

But again, you have to follow through some times or your claim to being the best loses all credibility. ACC teams teams have won just one NC in the 19 years since Marion Jones was the juice for UNC. In only 5 of those 19 years have they had a team in the FF, and 3 of the 8 teams who made it during that span were in the low-level 2005 year. So 8 of the last 76 FF teams were from the ACC. I'm very impressed. Clearly the ACC is the way to go, as it is regularly rated in the last few years along with the B12 as being the best conference. Just deeply impressed about all that.

I'm guessing more recruits would rather hear something like, "We make visits to the FF regularly though our conference isn't rated as the strongest" rather than "We think we are in an insanely tough conference where everybody chews each other up in the regular season, but our last sniff at an FF came in the last millennium before you were born and the rest of our conference mates also whiff in the tourney." Sure, sure, I know, the ACC is the wave of the future, but a lot of us on the BY have heard talk about dynasties and other ACC blather and maybe need to see some evidence of it before we go believing "the strongest" claim or that it means anything.

 

[Wonkster]

We gotta get out of the AAC.

Pffft. What a bunch of Chicken Littles!


Turkey Lurkey, Goosey Loosey, Ducky Lucky, Cocky Locky, Henny Penny and Chicken Little

 

[Stray Cat]

Making these games is central to Muffit's legacy.

You realize Coach McGraw spells her name Muffet, not Muffit. Not sure if it was a mistake or if you we just being an arse. I only mention this since I was called out by a few on this board for really to Tenn's leader as Coach Worlock (Warlick).

 

[pinotbear]

without rehashing all the aforementioned points-of-view, IMHO..

at least, for the short-term, Muffet's position is a bunch of hooey.
UConn is the defending Nat'l Champ. Unless something surprising happens, UConn will be the Nat'l champ this year, quite possibly undefeated. So, early in the 2014 season, a two-time Nat'l Champ team, with a lengthy winning streak comes into South Bend, playing the Irish in front of a sold-out home crowd on national TV...and, the game means more to UConn? I don't think so.

Both positions in this argument are based on supposition. My argument is based on short-term, what we know from last year, and what we've seen so far this year - from UConn, and from everybody else.

Most of the "it means more to UConn" arguments are based on long-term supposition - that, down the road a few years, the potential weakness of the AAC will hurt recruiting, and that other significant teams will endeavor to reduce UConn's profile nationally, by refusing to schedule the Huskies. That's supposition built on top of supposition, years into the future.

Pardon me for not getting into a frenzied tizzy about what might happen, based on what might happen, 4, 5, or 6 years down the road.

 

[boontonbomber]

Our conference was terrible before and we thrived, and there are a number of teams who have been good in a power conference and gone the way of LaTech and ODU, so I don't really see the conference as being that big a deal while Geno is around. He still gets more good players into the W and onto the Olympic team than any other coach and a player that has that ambition will still want to be coached by him.

And I would say Uconn is already the ND football of Women's college basketball - ambitious coaches want to play Uconn because while everyone rags on the 'learning experience' post game quotes, there is real truth in them. Watching Moriah yesterday in the second half force a turnover on the inbounds after a made basket while her team is up 30 is something you can talk to you team about, but let them experience that on the court at their expense is definitely a way to get their attention. Jeff having the Louisville team watch a Uconn practice during his first year is something that helped him change the culture. And forcing a turnover in full court pressure against Uconn is also something you can build on.

Geno talks about first trips to the FF and how it is hard to be ready the first time, and it getting easier as you repeat. Same can be said of playing Uconn. ND lost 12 straight to Uconn from 2005 - 2011 BE tournament. But they finally broke through and proceeded to win 7 of 9. I really believe if they hadn't played three times already in 2011 they do not win the fourth game because they learned.

the "terrible conference" you refer to included the likes of nd, louisville, rutgers, depaul, st. johns, syracuse, marquette, and villanova. uconn regularly beat up on these teams, but they are still programs that have been very successful, with some of the best coaches in wcbb. now, to see what a "terrible" conference really looks like, take another look at who's in the AAC.

 

[msf22b]

You realize Coach McGraw spells her name Muffet, not Muffit. Not sure if it was a mistake or if you we just being an arse. I only mention this since I was called out by a few on this board for really to Tenn's leader as Coach Worlock (Warlick).

typo, sorry

 

[HoopsFan21]

typo, sorry

Her real name isn't even Muffet!

 

[tomcat]

Our conference is terrible and that isn't going to change any time soon. The question going forward is the following:

Are we going to become the "Notre Dame football" of women's basketball, where conference affiliation means nothing, we're universally recognized as the king of the sport, and everyone wants to schedule us OOC because they know it's beneficial for them to be associated with us?

Or, like an earlier poster suggested, without the high-quality opponents presented to us systematically through a strong conference, do we fade into irrelevance in the manner of ODU and LaTech? (This likely requires a conspiracy on the part of the other powers in the sport to make sure the first scenario doesn't occur.)

This is exactly the situation, IMHO. No question, UConn is at the top of the sport now. The problem is that its ability to maintain the top-notch schedule that Geno wants lies in the hands of others, and that is never a good thing. UConn needs the Notre Dame games at least as much as Notre Dame does.

I don't think you have to be a naysayer or panic-mongerer to think that moving from the AAC would be a good idea. I mean, which would you prefer: UConn and its recruiting prospects exactly as they stand today, or UConn and its recruiting prospects as part of, say, the ACC? All else being equal, it seems the choice is obvious. That does not mean disaster lies ahead for UConn, though the team could gradually become less attractive to recruits and over time, less relevant to the national WCBB scene.

I can't see why one of the major conferences would want the package of UConn teams for at least a couple of years, until football prospects improve, and even that timeframe may be optimistic. That's why I believe Geno is going for the Notre Dame strategy, figuring in WCBB, at least, UConn has the cachet to attract crowds and interest anywhere, and is worth scheduling. It is the best strategy the team can use, at least for now. And later, if a major conference calls, the university has an added bonus of the best WCBB program in the land.

 

[UConnCat]

Muffett pretty much said the game was good for WCBB if you read the whole article. Trouble is Muffet can be snippy and that last line was snippy. I suspect she is still smarting from not beating UConn when everything was on the line.

Agree completely. Muffet showed her stripes back in May when she complained that ND hadn't heard from UConn about scheduling. This was one month after UConn kicked her team's behind in the FF and getting back to ND on scheduling was the not exactly atop UConn's list of priorities at the time. UConn responded in kind a few weeks ago (see Deb Corum's comment) and this is now Muffet's dig at UConn's conference. Just because a statement is accurate doesn't mean it needs to be said. She didn't have to say it but did anyway for other reasons. The friend thing has always been overblown and don't be fooled by the sweet name and the persona.

 

[buddy]

Has anyone seen a ND women's game on TV this year? I haven't. But I have seen UConn women's team on national TV many times. They realize that they have lost their TV exposure now that they no longer play UConn in the regular season. In the BE, they would be on national TV at least 3 or 4 times when they played UConn or rode on UConn's coat tails. Now you never even hear of their women's basketball team mentioned. Not even on their beloved ESPN. This series is a ploy to get them back on TV. Don't trust ND.

 

[DobbsRover2]

the "terrible conference" you refer to included the likes of nd, louisville, rutgers, depaul, st. johns, syracuse, marquette, and villanova. uconn regularly beat up on these teams, but they are still programs that have been very successful, with some of the best coaches in wcbb. now, to see what a "terrible" conference really looks like, take another look at who's in the AAC.

Depends what era you're talking about. The AAC is better than the Big East of the mid-90s when UConn won its first title, and is around the size of that unit. The bloated Big East of recent years was way bigger than the old Big East and the AAC and also included teams like Providence that were worse than any teams now in the AAC. Even in the early 2000s the Big East was mainly three or four strong teams making it to the tourney while the rest were weak. So any conference can grow, and just as the Big East grew up with UConn and added a huge amount of teams to become overloaded, so the AAC can thrive with a top nucleus but maybe not get too big.

 

[triaddukefan]

Has anyone seen a ND women's game on TV this year? I haven't. But I have seen UConn women's team on national TV many times. They realize that they have lost their TV exposure now that they no longer play UConn in the regular season. In the BE, they would be on national TV at least 3 or 4 times when they played UConn or rode on UConn's coat tails. Now you never even hear of their women's basketball team mentioned. Not even on their beloved ESPN. This series is a ploy to get them back on TV. Don't trust ND.

ND will be on TV a few times in the new year. Two ESPN matchups vs Duke... two big monday matchups vs TN and MD..... some ESPN3 games... and some ACC games on the ACC/Regional Sports Networks. Assuming they advance in the ACC tourney... the semis are on Saturday Evening on ESPN2.. and the finals are on Sunday evening on ESPN.