ND Final Four team recognized.....

[mhshuskies]

You do know Achonwa was injured, and didn't play, right?

She would not have made a significant difference!

 

[01Neaggrad02]

It took Notre Dame if I am not mistaken 16 minutes in the second half to score 10 points. At that point in time the game was long over. Once they hit that 10 point mark with less than 4 to go they went on a mini scoring spree. Too little too late.

 

[meyers7]

Thank you for not saying "classless". That's what I was thinking, though. This thread is very much reminiscent of the Summitt in its heyday.

Oh come on Nan, it ain't even close. We're just poking a little fun. We know ND was very good last year, heck they were the 2nd best team in the whole country. That's certainly reason for ND to celebrate.

 

[meyers7]

The whole thread mocking the honoring of the ND WBB team is disappointing.

Well luckily you guys can handle disappointment. They say experience is a great teacher.

 

[Tonyc]

It was a nice thing to do to honor NDs FF team which was undefeated until it met a UConn team who without top players in their most crucial part of the season continued to roll over opponents most of which were on the road. With those wins UConn showed us how good they really were and how dominate they were. ND did not choke. UConn was just that much better.

Why UConn lost 7 times to ND. IMO calling charges on UConn when they weren't all charges. That was the 6th man. Now look at last season when the charges weren't called as fouls. Big difference. The refs learned something there and IMO ND without the charges in their previous 7 wins would not have won those games however they did and we will never know.

Bottom line ND had their run and will be good this season as will some other teams. UConn will continue to roll and last season is in the history books. This season UConn begins at 46-0 and another chapter begins in the history books.

 

[Aluminny69]

A difference, yes. Likely that it would have changed the outcome, no.

This is just a matter of opinion, but I respectfully disagree. And remember two starters, Mel Thomas AND Kalana Greene were injured on a team that lost just one game. And they had beaten Stanford in an early season game.

I just can't understand how people can think that losing a starting All American type player late in the season doesn't make any difference. It certainly has cost UConn some National championships...

 

[Kibitzer]

This is just a matter of opinion, but I respectfully disagree. And remember two starters, Mel Thomas AND Kalana Greene were injured on a team that lost just one game. And they had beaten Stanford in an early season game.

I just can't understand how people can think that losing a starting All American type player late in the season doesn't make any difference. It certainly has cost UConn some National championships...

FACTS:

Achonwa got hurt.

UConn won the game.
​

OPINIONS:

Achonwa's loss did NOT affect the outcome. (UConn would have won anyway.)

Achonwa's loss affected the outcome. (Notre Dame MAY have won with Achonwa.)

 

[Aluminny69]

My post was in reference to the 2008 season, but hey, whatever...

 

[msf22b]

FACTS:

Achonwa got hurt.

UConn won the game.
​

OPINIONS:

Achonwa's loss did NOT affect the outcome. (UConn would have won anyway.)

Achonwa's loss affected the outcome. (Notre Dame MAY have won with Achonwa.)

View attachment 6815​

Since we're speaking of hypotheticals:
I think Achonwa's obvious theoretical contribution
would have been more than offset by a normal shooting evening by Bria and Moriah.

 

[doggydaddy]

Watch the video again. Right from the opening tipoff, Uconn pushed the ball inside to take advantage of Achonwa's absence. That would nullify your point. But that wasn't my point anyway. MHS said that ND choked. Harsh.

Would you say that the 2001 UConn team, the one that Geno said was he greatest team, "choked", and ignore the fact that Sveta and Shea were injured, and freshman DT went 2 for 18? At least be consistent.

To be clear, I'm not saying ND would have won with Achonwa, but Achonwa was a team Captain and leader, and was playing the best basketball of her career when she went down in the game just before the final four. To say her absence didn't make any difference is probably one of the reasons that many people dislike UConn fans. Double standard.

Choke, she wouldn't have made a difference.....blech......

But it's just the opinion of a couple of fans. I'm just ignoring them.

I will say that Uconn would have still gone inside against ND even with Achonwa there. Dolson had the same size advantage as against the 6'3" Reimer. Achonwa is a better defender, but she would have made a difference defensively.

Offensively, maybe. The offense did run through her and she would have forced Dolson to play defense against her.

Who knows. Can't believe we are rehashing this again.

 

[Bayareahusky]

As for ND behavior, I forgive the not applauding at BS's award, though I think it is classless. Certainly not anything that would start a nuclear war.... Muffet's comments NC week... can be overlooked..... I know Geno uses his chits as well to gain edges..... "when we lost Pat Summit, the game lost class"..... OK.... silly I think but i can let that go..... it is just rhetoric.....

The trash talking by ND "it must suck to be you" etc etc..... I find a bit more offensive.... and you know ND would be up in arms if that was done to them..... but I guess moot point because we are in the drivers seat now.....

and this achonwa thing.... wow give it a rest who cares? it is one person's opinion..... i liked her game.... she was a pro down there..... and knew what she was doing.... and she seemed to make everyone else better..... but if ND couldnt win te previous year with Skylar, how could they win this year even with Achonwa in the lineup..... no ND did not choke and yes Natalie would have made SOME difference.... but to flip the game into a ND win..... nope

 

[Kibitzer]

Since we're speaking of hypotheticals:
I think Achonwa's obvious theoretical contribution
would have been more than offset by the theoretical contribution of a normal shooting evening by Bria and Moriah.

Edited to reinforce another opinion.

 

[UcMiami]

Bottom line -
1. Great for any college to celebrate their women's teams in the middle of THE cash cow football season - it is good for women's sports and for women's basketball in particular. I feel the same way about colleges celebrating their STUDENT athletes during sporting competitions when they bring out dean's list athletes and athletes who have won other academic accolades.
2. ND had a great team last year and they suffered a big loss when Achonwa went down, and they played inspired ball in the semis and demolished a Maryland team.
3. They did not played inspired ball in the final and Uconn had a lot to do with that and they got beaten in convincing fashion.
4. If they had their center for the final it would probably have been a more competitive game but we will never know. The comparison to Dolson is pretty apt because both players were the focal point around which their team's offense ran. Dolson playing on two bad wheels (but able to play) was a huge part of Uconn's previous NC. (As well as this one.)
5. Uconn has certainly experienced devastating injuries in the past that may have cost them NCs (but we will never know for sure) - the one that stands out to me is Shea because that also happened during the tournament and the team was not able to recover emotionally from that loss. ND playing the game they did against an admittedly flawed MD team in the FF was impressive, but I was not surprised they could not repeat the emotional high they rode in that game into the final.
6. I have no idea what snapped with MM in the NCAA, but I think most people can agree that her behavior was not reflective of her past behavior and stands out in a distinguished career as a low point. I can understand any other team and coach being a little annoyed with the publicity and success that Uconn gets and earns year in and year out. I can also understand that in a year with two great teams running the table through the regular season and post season, that one of those teams and its coach may feel they are being slighted compared to the other. I cannot understand the behavior she exhibited in response to that. But ... it happened and I still think she is a great coach and with that one aberrant week, she has been a great asset to the sport.
This thread sure went off the rails.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Yeah ucmiami, i too am a muffet fan, though i despise ND..... i think the woman can really coach..... and i certainly didnt mind her showing her horns a little..... no problem....

yes ND was in UConn's shadow.... but i think it is true they were always a lesser team..... i mean, i think the reason they won a few games from us the last few years was because of skylar. no skylar, who they gonna lean on? McBride Loyd and Achonwa the other 2 were fairly weak..... no way they were ever as good as us last season.....

and I am going to add again, that MD just did not come to play vs ND in the semis.... so to mark that as a fair indicator of ND strength would not be accurate me thinks

 

[Orangutan]

i mean, i think the reason they won a few games from us the last few years was because of skylar. no skylar, who they gonna lean on? McBride Loyd and Achonwa the other 2 were fairly weak..... no way they were ever as good as us last season.....

The stats don't really bear that out. On a per possession basis, Notre Dame was actually better in 13-14 than in 12-13 with Skylar. In 13-14, they scored 1.124 points per possession and allowed .819 (+.305). In 12-13, they scored 1.06 and allowed .791 (+.27).

As to the other two being weak, I'll concede that Braker was a limited player just out there for hustle plays and rebounding, but Lindsay Allen had a tremendous season for a true freshman. FG% 49.7, FT% 81.5, 3FG% 35.7, 2.2/1 assist turnover ratio. She wasn't a volume scorer, but she was a very solid pass-first point guard.

I think it's less that ND got weaker without Skylar and more that UConn got better once the switch flipped for Stewart in last year's tourney. Incidentally, the 12-13 and 13-14 UConn per-possession stats are very similar. But the eye test tells me that UConn's rarely-needed A-game was better in 13-14 than it was in 12-13, largely because Stewart is simply unplayable at her best.

 

[meyers7]

But the eye test tells me that UConn's rarely-needed A-game was better in 13-14 than it was in 12-13, largely because Stewart is simply unplayable at her best.

And I imagine she will be better as a Jr and Sr.

 

[Alydar]

The stats don't really bear that out. On a per possession basis, Notre Dame was actually better in 13-14 than in 12-13 with Skylar. In 13-14, they scored 1.124 points per possession and allowed .819 (+.305). In 12-13, they scored 1.06 and allowed .791 (+.27). .........

The improvement may in large part be due to the fact that they didn't play 4 games against UConn. Those 4 gams represented 10% of their schedule.

Another factor may have been that they were playing in a weaker conference in 13/14.

 

[doggydaddy]

The stats don't really bear that out. On a per possession basis, Notre Dame was actually better in 13-14 than in 12-13 with Skylar. In 13-14, they scored 1.124 points per possession and allowed .819 (+.305). In 12-13, they scored 1.06 and allowed .791 (+.27).

As to the other two being weak, I'll concede that Braker was a limited player just out there for hustle plays and rebounding, but Lindsay Allen had a tremendous season for a true freshman. FG% 49.7, FT% 81.5, 3FG% 35.7, 2.2/1 assist turnover ratio. She wasn't a volume scorer, but she was a very solid pass-first point guard.

I think it's less that ND got weaker without Skylar and more that UConn got better once the switch flipped for Stewart in last year's tourney. Incidentally, the 12-13 and 13-14 UConn per-possession stats are very similar. But the eye test tells me that UConn's rarely-needed A-game was better in 13-14 than it was in 12-13, largely because Stewart is simply unplayable at her best.

One thing to consider is the fact that the 13-14 stats only include the one game against Uconn while the 12-13 team played Uconn four games. That might be one difference.

In regards to Allen, like most freshman, she struggled against most of the better teams on ND's schedule, shooting below her full season numbers. She was impressive in how well she took care f the ball and will be a solid point this season.

 

[Fightin Choke]

Choke, she wouldn't have made a difference.....blech.

But it's just the opinion of a couple of fans. I'm just ignoring them.

I will say that Uconn would have still gone inside against ND even with Achonwa there. Dolson had the same size advantage as against the 6'3" Reimer. Achonwa is a better defender, but she would have made a difference defensively.

Offensively, maybe. The offense did run through her and she would have forced Dolson to play defense against her.

Who knows. Can't believe we are rehashing this again.

I didn't author that post, DD.

 

[doggydaddy]

I didn't author that post, DD.

Lol....it took me a minute to figure out what you meant.

Choke as in gag, not choke as in Fightin Choke.

 

[ndmb]

The stats don't really bear that out. On a per possession basis, Notre Dame was actually better in 13-14 than in 12-13 with Skylar. In 13-14, they scored 1.124 points per possession and allowed .819 (+.305). In 12-13, they scored 1.06 and allowed .791 (+.27).

As to the other two being weak, I'll concede that Braker was a limited player just out there for hustle plays and rebounding, but Lindsay Allen had a tremendous season for a true freshman. FG% 49.7, FT% 81.5, 3FG% 35.7, 2.2/1 assist turnover ratio. She wasn't a volume scorer, but she was a very solid pass-first point guard.

I think it's less that ND got weaker without Skylar and more that UConn got better once the switch flipped for Stewart in last year's tourney. Incidentally, the 12-13 and 13-14 UConn per-possession stats are very similar. But the eye test tells me that UConn's rarely-needed A-game was better in 13-14 than it was in 12-13, largely because Stewart is simply unplayable at her best.

I'm just happy anytime someone uses per possession stats.

 

[geneticrex]

I just re-watched the 12-13' national semi.

A healthy Achonwa against a hobbled Dolson. The player that people think would have made up for what was an absolute thumping in last years championship game, made little difference.

The 4/5 of Dolson and Stewart is superior to Achonwa and Braker and it isn't close.

 

[Aluminny69]

I just re-watched the 12-13' national semi.

A healthy Achonwa against a hobbled Dolson. The player that people think would have made up for what was an absolute thumping in last years championship game, made little difference.

The 4/5 of Dolson and Stewart is superior to Achonwa and Braker and it isn't close.

I used to think that Achonwa was overrated also. But, go back and watch her play in the 2014 ACC tournament, and the first four games of the NCAA Tournament, and you would agree that she was playing inspired basketball, arguably the best of her career. Very unfortunate for her that she went down when she did. I'm sure UConn fans can sympathize with late season injuries.

 

[OneTrickPony]

Achonwa not only had really elevated her game, but she was an emotional anchor for a team that seemed a bit high-strung to me. I think she would've improved ND's performance in the final without question. I don't think she would have been nearly enough to even the odds in the paint, however, and I don't see her presence being sufficient to have radically improved the games of the two AA guards that were effectively contained. The game would've been closer...not close...

 

[UcMiami]

Alum and One - agree about Natalie's improved game last year - she grew tremendously during her four years at ND and was really playing well - I also think she would have made the guards more effective by her passing and screens and by occupying Dolson more than her replacements were able to. I still agree, Uconn would have won, but I think it would have been a much more competitive game. We will never know.