NCAA Top 16 Reveal set for Thursday Jan 18th | Page 2 | The Boneyard

NCAA Top 16 Reveal set for Thursday Jan 18th

southie

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Does anyone know when the next 2 "reveals" will occur?
Link at the top states:

In addition, two other top-16 reveals are scheduled this season to take place on Thursday, February 1 during halftime of the UConn-South Carolina game on ESPN (7 p.m. ET) and Monday, February 19, during ESPN2’s Big Monday/Play4Kay tripleheader that includes Florida State at Duke (6 p.m.), Baylor at Texas (8 p.m. ET) and UCLA at Oregon (10 p.m. ET).

Each reveal will include the top-16 in seed order in addition to the top four teams assigned to their potential regional site as of that date. For the final reveal on February 19, teams will be identified with potential regional assignments for all 16 teams.
 

Plebe

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Link at the top states:

In addition, two other top-16 reveals are scheduled this season to take place on Thursday, February 1 during halftime of the UConn-South Carolina game on ESPN (7 p.m. ET) and Monday, February 19, during ESPN2’s Big Monday/Play4Kay tripleheader that includes Florida State at Duke (6 p.m.), Baylor at Texas (8 p.m. ET) and UCLA at Oregon (10 p.m. ET).

Each reveal will include the top-16 in seed order in addition to the top four teams assigned to their potential regional site as of that date. For the final reveal on February 19, teams will be identified with potential regional assignments for all 16 teams.
I gotta hand it to the committee. This is a major upgrade from last year's reveals, which were only for the top 10. This year they're wading into the turbulent waters of spotting who is in line for the final hosting spots, as well as the minefield of regional assignments, which are never going to please everyone.
 

Plebe

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UcMiami

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To me the interesting thing about seeding has little to do with the actual seed line. As gets mentioned every year, being the fourth #1 (unless you have a Pac12 team on the top line is usually a negative because you are going to the west coast.) The difference between a two and a three seed is pretty meaningless, while where you are sent is very meaningful.
 

easttexastrash

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And, guess what? Even with the loss to TCU, our RPI and SOS are still so much better than Baylor's that we're ranked 2 spots higher by the committee (despite 2 more losses than Baylor). That should tell you how pathetic your schedule has been thus far.

Think about that...you are bragging about being ranked two spots ahead of Baylor.

Makes the upcoming game even more importan. Should be interesting to see if BU gets to play the UCONN UT team or the TCU UT team.
 

triaddukefan

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I missed badly on Duke and Georgia.

I knew Duke was in, when I saw UGA on the screen. I looked at their remaining schedule... they get Lower Carolina, and Mizzou at home.... and TN on the road. They have a chance to be something like 25-4 or 24-5 headed into the SEC tourney.

Im still not sure if they are any good or not. They only had a 3 point lead @NCAT headed into the 4th quarter... and only won by 10.
 

skilz

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[QUOTE="southie, post: ; Mulkey's own fault for having a short roster after running off so many players at the end of each season.

Just wait....Aston will be running players off after this season.
 

DefenseBB

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I think we are seeing real teeth in assessing poor Strength of Schedule ratings. Maryland got creamed last year despite its gaudy record and Brenda bitched a bit. This will continue to highlight to Kim that if she keeps playing such soft teams, the committee with not reward her. It will be a battle of wills and Kim will not give in, she will be penalized and then she will whine about getting no respect. I have seen this movie before. She is her own worst enemy at this.
I happen to think Baylor is the #3 team after UConn and MSU and ahead of Louisville. That said, she coddles her teams all the time and could be why they don’t evolve for the Tournament. Other teams are more battle tested. I am looking forward to the Tex/BU games. If Brown gets into foul trouble BU will be in trouble, they don’t have Texas depth.
If the Texas that played UConn shows up, BU will be in trouble and Texas will be a solid #2 or the last #4. Baylor on the other hand, even if they win the Big 12 will not get a #1. The ACC and PAC-12 champs will edge them out due to her poor schedule. A shame really, but inevitable given Kim’s drive.
 
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I think the NCAA reveal is great as it gives us a somewhat insight of their viewpoint. While I don't necessarily agree with the rankings, it really doesn't matter to me because we're only halfway through the season and there is so much more basketball to be played. Anything can happen from here on out but of course it'd be interesting to compare this first reveal to the next one on the 1st
 

skilz

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I think we are seeing real teeth in assessing poor Strength of Schedule ratings. Maryland got creamed last year despite its gaudy record and Brenda bitched a bit. This will continue to highlight to Kim that if she keeps playing such soft teams, the committee with not reward her. It will be a battle of wills and Kim will not give in, she will be penalized and then she will whine about getting no respect. I have seen this movie before. She is her own worst enemy at this.
I happen to think Baylor is the #3 team after UConn and MSU and ahead of Louisville. That said, she coddles her teams all the time and could be why they don’t evolve for the Tournament. Other teams are more battle tested. I am looking forward to the Tex/BU games. If Brown gets into foul trouble BU will be in trouble, they don’t have Texas depth.
If the Texas that played UConn shows up, BU will be in trouble and Texas will be a solid #2 or the last #4. Baylor on the other hand, even if they win the Big 12 will not get a #1. The ACC and PAC-12 champs will edge them out due to her poor schedule. A shame really, but inevitable given Kim’s drive.

If you look at the standings from the end of the year last year, the Baylor Non-Conf isn't horrible for a team that lost 5 top seniors: #6 ranked Stanford, #15 UCLA, #18 Kentucky. When these games were scheduled, I would assume Kim thought she had a decent non-conf for a young team. She couldn't see the future in that Stanford and Kentucky would not be good this year. The loss to UCLA really hurts.

I'm sure Baylor's non-conf will be better since we get to play them in Waco next year. :)
 
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If you look at the standings from the end of the year last year, the Baylor Non-Conf isn't horrible for a team that lost 5 top seniors: #6 ranked Stanford, #15 UCLA, #18 Kentucky. When these games were scheduled, I would assume Kim thought she had a decent non-conf for a young team. She couldn't see the future in that Stanford and Kentucky would not be good this year. The loss to UCLA really hurts.

I'm sure Baylor's non-conf will be better since we get to play them in Waco next year. :)

That was my thoughts exactly. Knowing she had a young team and not much depth I'm sure she tried to do a decent one but not too aggressive to give players time to learn and also help keep people off the injured list. I mean we did lose one in the Kentucky game to an ACL injury. I am fine with what they unveiled. Like they said if we started the tourney today this is where everyone would be seeded. ND deserves to their spot just like others ahead. Baylor may be better based on the eye test, but the eye test isn't the only factor. So in a few weeks when we do this again, I am sure this will change.

Even if they still ended up a no.3 seed maybe they would play with a chip on their shoulder.
 
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Like I said, who cares what Baylor’s seed is in the first reveal. I doubt that we will work our way up to a 1 seed but a 2 is attainable. If Baylor is 3 seed come tournament time I suspect that no 1 or 2 seed will be very happy about having us in their region.

Baylor is a sleeping giant. I don’t want two teams in my regional. Huskies ( Washington) and Baylor Bears
 
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If you look at the standings from the end of the year last year, the Baylor Non-Conf isn't horrible for a team that lost 5 top seniors: #6 ranked Stanford, #15 UCLA, #18 Kentucky. When these games were scheduled, I would assume Kim thought she had a decent non-conf for a young team. She couldn't see the future in that Stanford and Kentucky would not be good this year. The loss to UCLA really hurts.

I'm sure Baylor's non-conf will be better since we get to play them in Waco next year. :)

None of this matters. By tourney time Alexis Morris will be playing lights out and Baylor will ready
 

nwhoopfan

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I don’t want two teams in my regional. Huskies ( Washington)

Well no need to worry about that one. Huskies won't make any post season tournament. They are currently 0-7 in conference, 6-12 overall. Are you thinking of last year?
 
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Well no need to worry about that one. Huskies won't make any post season tournament. They are currently 0-7 in conference, 6-12 overall. Are you thinking of last year?

No I was making my usual lame attempt at humor. UConn Baylor and Ms State top 3 teams currently in the sport.
 

skilz

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None of this matters. By tourney time Alexis Morris will be playing lights out and Baylor will ready

Alexis Morris is exciting to watch. This Baylor team has the potential to do well as long as they don't get into foul trouble.
 
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Let me be the first to admit MSU doesn't have exactly the best schedule in the world so far. We've been impressive in a few games and are undefeated for now but some of the opponents aren't world beaters. Baylor at 9 seems low and I hope they aren't in the MSU bracket after the OT win last year. Mulkey is a good coach and the talent is on the roster despite how thin their bench is.

I do agree the 2/3 difference in seeding is pretty meaningless with the exception of bragging rights. Heck the 1 seed discussion seems to get overdone each year.
 

Phil

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Creme said that Baylor at number nine was the biggest shock. My minor quibble is that I don't know how you can use the word "shock" for something that was completely predictable.

It may have been a shock last year when Maryland got lower seed than they and many others thought but when the committee explained the rationale it made complete sense.

However, while I understand the rationale I want to push back a bit.

If the committee places a lot of emphasis on RPI which appears to be the case, Baylor is ranked 16th so the question isn't whether they get the fourth number one seed but whether they are in the top 16 and may have just squeaked in. The committee made it clear that strength of schedule is important, and according to Nolan site their strength of schedule is 99th which puts them way outside any of the other teams in the top 16.

It is well-known that the RPI is a deficient metric. I understand why they use it, and I think the NCAA knows the limitations but hasn't bothered to consider reforms because while the RPI is horrendous at the beginning of the season it gets better and better throughout the season, and by the time the selections are made it's not great but it's not horrible.

However, we aren't close to the end of the season, so while it's better than horrendous, it still far worse than it will be later in the season. One might argue this is no big deal, as the initial reveals are not binding. However, remember that Maryland was incensed about their low initial rating, and even though they went on to win their conference regular-season and conference tournament, with a record of 30 and 2 At the time of the selection they were still a three seed, so it doesn't seem they moved up much.

Will that happen with Baylor?

One can argue that a coach with a lot of freshmen, and in a fairly strong conference, might make the rational decision to play a relatively weak nonconference schedule. The expectation is that the freshman will get more playing time and while the RPI rating will be on the low side is the conference season starts it will pick up as the conference season progresses.

However, there is something called the anchor effect, and it's possible that Baylor might struggle to move up even if it plays well against the tougher conference schedule.

A second, but very related question is how tough is their schedule?

The RPI says the strength of schedule is ranked number 99 which is pretty poor for a team that wants to consider itself among the elite.

However, Massey has there strength of schedule at 19.
Sagarin says #44

That's quite a range and while 44 is not exactly something to be proud of its far better than 99.

Sagarin has Baylor rated overall the number two team, as does Massey.

I'm not pretending for a second that Baylor's schedule is something to be admired but what if the RPI strength of schedule is not a good metric and there schedule will not exactly stellar is far better than the NCAA measure. Maybe they're getting dinged down to a three seed for unfair reasons.
 

Phil

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I think it is worth asking why Duke was not considered yet Georgia is in.

  • Duke has a better RPI than Georgia.
  • Duke has a better SOS than Georgia (as measured by the RPI)
  • Duke is ranked higher by Sagarin than Georgia.
  • Duke is ranked higher in the coaches poll than Georgia
  • Duke is ranked higher in the AP poll than Georgia

What is the selection committee looking at?
 
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A second, but very related questionI'm not pretending for a second that Baylor's schedule is something to be admired but what if the RPI strength of schedule is not a good metric and there schedule will not exactly stellar is far better than the NCAA measure. Maybe they're getting dinged down to a three seed for unfair reasons.
Didn’t the committee communicate this clearly? To me it seems like getting dinged was a conscious choice on Mulkey’s part.
 

Phil

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Didn’t the committee communicate this clearly? To me it seems like getting dinged was a conscious choice on Mulkey’s part.


I don't disagree that the committee made it clear that strength of schedule was important.

To measure the strength of schedule which are better than the NCAA's measure, suggest a significantly stronger schedule than the NCAA measure.

According to Massey, the strength of schedule is better than that of South Carolina and Florida state and Georgia and Missouri.

If you schedule stronger than those four teams and have a much better record why should you get dinged?
 

triaddukefan

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Not to worrry--as long as Azura is performing at this high level--Duke will be well represented--Thanks for that gift.

Welp the Triangle swiped Connecticut's NHL team back in 1997...... guess Connecticut's got its revenge almost 20 years later by swiping the Triangle's best WCBB player......... Id take that trade any day of the week.


ward-keyframe.jpg
 
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Creme said that Baylor at number nine was the biggest shock. My minor quibble is that I don't know how you can use the word "shock" for something that was completely predictable.

It may have been a shock last year when Maryland got lower seed than they and many others thought but when the committee explained the rationale it made complete sense.

However, while I understand the rationale I want to push back a bit.

If the committee places a lot of emphasis on RPI which appears to be the case, Baylor is ranked 16th so the question isn't whether they get the fourth number one seed but whether they are in the top 16 and may have just squeaked in. The committee made it clear that strength of schedule is important, and according to Nolan site their strength of schedule is 99th which puts them way outside any of the other teams in the top 16.

It is well-known that the RPI is a deficient metric. I understand why they use it, and I think the NCAA knows the limitations but hasn't bothered to consider reforms because while the RPI is horrendous at the beginning of the season it gets better and better throughout the season, and by the time the selections are made it's not great but it's not horrible.

However, we aren't close to the end of the season, so while it's better than horrendous, it still far worse than it will be later in the season. One might argue this is no big deal, as the initial reveals are not binding. However, remember that Maryland was incensed about their low initial rating, and even though they went on to win their conference regular-season and conference tournament, with a record of 30 and 2 At the time of the selection they were still a three seed, so it doesn't seem they moved up much.

Will that happen with Baylor?

One can argue that a coach with a lot of freshmen, and in a fairly strong conference, might make the rational decision to play a relatively weak nonconference schedule. The expectation is that the freshman will get more playing time and while the RPI rating will be on the low side is the conference season starts it will pick up as the conference season progresses.

However, there is something called the anchor effect, and it's possible that Baylor might struggle to move up even if it plays well against the tougher conference schedule.

A second, but very related question is how tough is their schedule?

The RPI says the strength of schedule is ranked number 99 which is pretty poor for a team that wants to consider itself among the elite.

However, Massey has there strength of schedule at 19.
Sagarin says #44

That's quite a range and while 44 is not exactly something to be proud of its far better than 99.

Sagarin has Baylor rated overall the number two team, as does Massey.

I'm not pretending for a second that Baylor's schedule is something to be admired but what if the RPI strength of schedule is not a good metric and there schedule will not exactly stellar is far better than the NCAA measure. Maybe they're getting dinged down to a three seed for unfair reasons.


Massey and the Sagarin ratings you are referring to use margin of victory as a criteria, the RPI does not. If you scroll all the way down on the Sagarin site, you will see that their ELO ranking is 12th. The ELO does not take margin of victory into account.
 

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