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NCAA looking to raise APR to 900 for post-season effective immediately

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The NCAA could have passed tougher admissions standards, but that would mean actual reform rather than just the appearance of reform (which is what the APR is really all about).

Remember, Herbst criticized the APR as bogus when she became president.
I agree with you that tougher admission standards would be the real way to go, but I seriously doubt if most coaches/athletic departments/CBS/ESPN really want that. I am hopeful that raising the APR will at least get coahces to focus on keeping their athletes taking classes seriously even when the basketball season ends. That has not been the case at UCONN in several years.
 
Nope. The problem with UConn has been UConn lifers who didn't finish out strong. Mandeldove was not a UConn transfer.

It's both. And, of course, the gift that keeps on giving: Nate Miles. Players receive 2 pts 1 for remaining eligible and "in good academic standing" and 1 for remaining at the school. Transfers can still receive the 2nd point provided they meet 4 stipulations:

1. The student-athlete transferred immediately to another four-year institution (i.e., the next available regular academic term), which must be supported by documentation of the student-athlete’s full-time enrollment and matriculation at the second institution in the
next regular academic term; [Some transfers are ok, ie Coombs-McDaniel transferring to Hofstra, but Darius Smith transferred to College of Southern Idaho (a 2-year school), and Jamaal Trice transferred to Midland College (a Juco)]

2. The student-athlete attended the original institution for a minimum of one academic year prior to the transfer;[Guess who doesn't fulfill this one? Our buddy Nate Miles!]

3. The student-athlete earned the eligibility point in the last term of enrollment prior to the transfer; and [I'm not 100% sure on this but I believe that Darius Smith was in poor academic standing when he transferred as well, making him a double whammy. I could be wrong here though. (Even if he was in poor standing that might be redundant since he was transferring to a 2-year school in the first place)]

4. The student-athlete presented a cumulative grade-point average of 2.6 or higher at the time of transfer from the original institution.
[I've read that school officials made Jamal Coombs-McDaniel finish all his coursework to leave in good academic standing. I hope he was also able to hit this cumulative GPA mark which might've been tough considering he'd had some academic trouble in the past]

The two 0-2's (players who didn't get either point for being academically eligible or staying) are widely believed to be Smith and Mandledove, who did not transfer but left after 4 years without graduating.

I'm relying heavily on this: http://www.theuconnblog.com/2011/5/...-scholarships-the-ncaa-will-say-its-about-bad
 
I am upset with both UConn's performance and the way the APR is measured. And I think both are reasonable.

First, the APR, as currently formulated, is b.s. Add to that the fact that they are trying to institute a retroactive benchmark that we literally have no chance of meeting (as some have stated) is ridiculous. Hey, sorry Usain Bolt, the race actually started 10 seconds ago...go catch up.

At the same time, I think this is a deserved wake up call to take academics more seriously. Just because it happens at every school doesn't mean it has to happen here. I'm not saying every kid has to be Emeka, but they should be taking school seriously, and if they don't then we should hold them accountable. Maybe even at a higher standard than the NCAA.

By all accounts the group we have right now is doing great, both on the court and off. Unfortunately, the last group did not.

I think this is the best summary of my view. I would add that it isn't as if the NCAA ginned up the APR this morning. UCONN knew what the rules were. Knew they needed to keep players involved and either didn't know how to do it or ignored it. And I don't believe for a minute that if Calhoun had made a serious effort to keep players involved he couldn't have figured out a way to do it. We're talking about Jim Calhoun here. If it was a priority for him, it would be a priority form everyone from the AD to the guy who gives out towels in the locker room. I view this as no different from many rules that apply to a team...No different from an NCAA rule that you can only have 13 scholarship player.
 
I think this is the best summary of my view. I would add that it isn't as if the NCAA ginned up the APR this morning. UCONN knew what the rules were. Knew they needed to keep players involved and either didn't know how to do it or ignored it. And I don't believe for a minute that if Calhoun had made a serious effort to keep players involved he couldn't have figured out a way to do it. We're talking about Jim Calhoun here. If it was a priority for him, it would be a priority form everyone from the AD to the guy who gives out towels in the locker room. I view this as no different from many rules that apply to a team...No different from an NCAA rule that you can only have 13 scholarship player.

Without an investigation of every program and every university, how do you know those programs and universities are not doing things to make the APR look acceptable. If you can show me the NCAA goes to universities and is verifying the accuracy of the APR's the universities are reporting, I'll reconsider my thoughts about JC. If you can prove to me that North Carolina's situation is an isolated event, I will reconsider my thoughts about JC. I you can prove that every university has valid courses that their athletes are required to take and not some dumb down course to ensure the athletes passing, courses that wouldn't get another student qualified for any occupation, I'll reconsider my evaluation of JC. Heck, I'm an RE supporter, but can you be sure that someone who shielded his program from the outside world did everything by the book when it came to academics?

I have no problems with anyone suggesting the relevance of academics. But I get the impression many people should just consider switching to Div. II sports, because I'm sure most of those universities have the type of "student athletes" the people in this thread are demanding. And I bet any amount that even at that level there is cheating, just not at the level as takes place in Division I.

There seems to be justified condemnation for the state of UConn's mens bb APR. I am not in argument about this. I am in argument that people are treating a university and a program that has been honest in its reporting more severely than programs that have supposedly good APRs but got those APRs dishonestly.

The only way things change will be if everyone wants to lower the standard of play for UConn men's bb and football and all the other Division I programs. Count me in for that option. But anyone who insists on academics improving and also insists on the level of athlete stay the same, are only partially handling the problem.
 
why is Doug Wiggins constantly mentioned in this thread? Our APR isn't garbage because of him.
 
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why is Doug Wiggins constantly mentioned in this thread? Our APR isn't garbage because of him.

Because Dyson can't be the goat this time.

Side question: what's with the massive .gifs in people's signatures? Brutal on the browser.
 
what's with the massive .gifs in people's signatures? Brutal on the browser.

Best thing I ever did for my Boneyard browsing was turn off signatures. Most people should not be allowed to play with images on the internet.
 
Jeff Jacobs tweet: "Hearing new APR rules definitely will not be implemeneted this March in BB"
 
I'll say this, you were already punished, but why is this so hard? All the other Big East football and basketball teams have no problem. I volunteer my services to the basketball team to make sure this never happens again.

fat drunk stupid
 
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Jeff Jacobs tweet: "Hearing new APR rules definitely will not be implemeneted this March in BB"

Assuming he's right, that's HUGE. Still not out of the woods as a post season ban for 2013 or 2014 would still be a disaster.

But it does set up the possibility of a preseason meeting this season where Oriakhi says, "there's only one thing left to do. Win. The. Whole. ducking. Thing." And then Ollie produces a life-size, topless, cardboard cutout of Mark Emmert with gold lamé pieces for the team to rip off after each victory. (Did I mention "Major League" was on the other day?)
 
Slow day at the PC board?
Joking aside, why is this so hard? Doesn't the team get enough resources to make sure that everyone is doing enough school work/ whatever. It seems to me like the head coach just took this too lightly.

However, if the NCAA is singling out UConn BB it might have something to do with the the signing of Andre Drummond and the way it was done by forcing, I mean Michael Bradley "offering up" his scholarship.
 
Jeff Jacobs tweet: "Hearing new APR rules definitely will not be implemeneted this March in BB"
Can you elaborate? Does he site a source? I hope this is the case. But even so, if the NCAA doesn't make it clear about giving programs that are below the threshold but are showing solid progress a waiver this could have a huge impact on recruiting. If it becomes apparent that UConn is unable to achieve the 2012/13 APR number and the NCAA will not or even might not provide such a waver, how many recruits do you think will want to come here?

Although there is a lot of blame to be shared here, including the UConn Athletic Department and the hoops program for not taking the same academic measures the past few years that they've begun to implement recently, the NCAA possibly acting so aggressively with changes that some programs simply can't adjust to within that time frame is an injustice. Let's hope they allow some room to reward improvement for the programs that have some catching up to do.

Setting aside the validity of the APR formula, I'm okay with penalizing programs that don't do their due diligence with academics, but let's implement a process that will continue to move most if not all programs to address this moving forward and for the long run, and not punish ones that did poorly in the past but are taking measures to correct this.
 
It seems to me like the head coach just took this too lightly.

Coach probably could've been more diligent making sure the guys who play were in good academic standing. I guess he's not perfect, you know he was busy trying to win championships.

Having said that our former AD didn't hire a new academic advisor when the last one left to pursue other endeavors. I'm sure that has something to do with it especially if the coach relied on him to keep students in the class room. I'm sure the assistants will pay more attention to this issue now.
 
Why do PC fans think their program is relevant?

This is absolutely the NCAA going after UConn for the Andre Drummond situation. The teams/schools that are in charge already have bogus courses in place for their "student" athletes. It isn't hard for anyone to pass a class in basket weaving or the history of basketball. UConn makes its students attend the same classes as everyone else. I know. My wife was once a graduate assistant in economics at UConn and she had players on the team in her class.

I want to see the "courses" that the players at Kentucky are "passing" to stay "eligible". And I want to see what Kentucky thinks qualifies as a "student" athlete being "on track to graduate". That means completely different things to different schools. The NCAA is a puppet organization run by a select few schools. They institute a bogus metric and build in holes the size of the Lincoln Tunnel for the chosen schools to drive through. If Wetzel or Parrish want to do some REAL investigative reporting, they would dig into what classes players are taking and what criteria schools are using to declare players on track to graduate. THAT is where the real story is, not what the APR scores are.
 
Joking aside, why is this so hard? Doesn't the team get enough resources to make sure that everyone is doing enough school work/ whatever. It seems to me like the head coach just took this too lightly.

However, if the NCAA is singling out UConn BB it might have something to do with the the signing of Andre Drummond and the way it was done by forcing, I mean Michael Bradley "offering up" his scholarship.

So a couple of things.

First. You are right. It shouldn't be hard. And, typically for UConn, it hasn't been. They've generally done a good job with this in Calhoun's time here. If you read the thread, this comes down to one class which had an academically solid senior (Gavin Edwards) leave for training camp 6 credits shy of finishing, another who never played but never finished (Mandeldove), Nate Miles (obviously a disaster all around), and a couple of transfers who didn't take care of business. Miles is obviously complicated. Edwards, I think, is on his own and I don't blame the staff. It is, on the other hand, on the staff for Mandeldove and the two other transfers. Those combined to tank the rankings. It was a perfect storm of mistakes clustered within a couple of years. They paid for it with scholarship reductions; that should be enough provided they've shown improvement (and, it seems, the school has).

Second. Bradley did offer up his scholarship. You can say he was forced, and basically call him a liar (although coerced). But the kid came from foster parents who, if he didn't qualify for academic scholarships, would have a number of reasons to actually be upset. They weren't. They said he was all for it and excited (remember, Drummond knew and was friends will all these guys--he played on campus frequently).
 
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Every school does this. When some kids perceive they will not get playing time, they go elsewhere. Others choose to be at the end of the bench. It's the nature of the beast. Wiggins, though, would have seen playing time at UConn. He saw playing time as a freshman. Lack of ability was not the reason Wiggins was shown the door, and I think his later career proved that as the same problems appeared over and over at lesser schools.
I agree here. Doug Wiggins problem(s) was / were not with academics, they were with discipline within the rules. Certainly that lack of discipline affected his academics, but that wasn't a case of taking a kid that couldn't hack it academically. Thing is, you cannot fault Calhoun for taking chances on iffy players when you have a Caron Butler to hold up as the model of success.

I don't think its fair to cheer Calhoun for his success with Butler and then turn around and chide him for trying the same thing with other players.
 
So a couple of things.

First. You are right. It shouldn't be hard. And, typically for UConn, it hasn't been. They've generally done a good job with this in Calhoun's time here. If you read the thread, this comes down to one class which had an academically solid senior (Gavin Edwards) leave for training camp 6 credits shy of finishing, another who never played but never finished (Mandeldove), Nate Miles (obviously a disaster all around), and a couple of transfers who didn't take care of business. Miles is obviously complicated. Edwards, I think, is on his own and I don't blame the staff. It is, on the other hand, on the staff for Mandeldove and the two other transfers. Those combined to tank the rankings. It was a perfect storm of mistakes clustered within a couple of years. They paid for it with scholarship reductions; that should be enough provided they've shown improvement (and, it seems, the school has).

Second. Bradley did offer up his scholarship. You can say he was forced, and basically call him a liar (although coerced). But the kid came from foster parents who, if he didn't qualify for academic scholarships, would have a number of reasons to actually be upset. They weren't. They said he was all for it and excited (remember, Drummond knew and was friends will all these guys--he played on campus frequently).
Ok, you seem to know quite a bit about the issue. Maybe the NCAA doesn't like what happened, who knows. It wouldn't be the first time they got on a coach; see Tarkanian. I seriously doubt this rule gets put in for this season. However, it seems plain that it will be put in place a some point, probably next season. Hopefully, UConn BB will be ok at that point.
 
Joking aside, why is this so hard? Doesn't the team get enough resources to make sure that everyone is doing enough school work/ whatever. It seems to me like the head coach just took this too lightly.

However, if the NCAA is singling out UConn BB it might have something to do with the the signing of Andre Drummond and the way it was done by forcing, I mean Michael Bradley "offering up" his scholarship.

Admit that you don't know the first thing about the APR and be done with it. Realize that we were docked for two kids in their 4th years that didn't complete their semesters. Then realize that Kentucky is doing just fine with their APR even though they have freshman jump to the NBA after a semester.

Do you understand what the APR is? You get the same credit for a graduate as you do for a freshman heading to the NBA. But low and behold, do NOT allow a 7th or 8th semester student to leave without completing that semester's classes.

In other words, it's a joke!
 
So a couple of things.

First. You are right. It shouldn't be hard. And, typically for UConn, it hasn't been. They've generally done a good job with this in Calhoun's time here. If you read the thread, this comes down to one class which had an academically solid senior (Gavin Edwards) leave for training camp 6 credits shy of finishing, another who never played but never finished (Mandeldove), Nate Miles (obviously a disaster all around), and a couple of transfers who didn't take care of business. Miles is obviously complicated. Edwards, I think, is on his own and I don't blame the staff. It is, on the other hand, on the staff for Mandeldove and the two other transfers. Those combined to tank the rankings. It was a perfect storm of mistakes clustered within a couple of years. They paid for it with scholarship reductions; that should be enough provided they've shown improvement (and, it seems, the school has).

Second. Bradley did offer up his scholarship. You can say he was forced, and basically call him a liar (although coerced). But the kid came from foster parents who, if he didn't qualify for academic scholarships, would have a number of reasons to actually be upset. They weren't. They said he was all for it and excited (remember, Drummond knew and was friends will all these guys--he played on campus frequently).

Just as an FYI, Miles doesn't count against the APR, we're lead to believe.

If he did, it would perversely give incentive to schools to retain kids who run afoul of the law.

Of course, you can always improve your APR score by asking a kid who is failing to commit a crime that allows you to throw him out of school.

Then he won't count against your APR.
 
Ok, you seem to know quite a bit about the issue. Maybe the NCAA doesn't like what happened, who knows. It wouldn't be the first time they got on a coach; see Tarkanian. I seriously doubt this rule gets put in for this season. However, it seems plain that it will be put in place a some point, probably next season. Hopefully, UConn BB will be ok at that point.

First, I don't buy the rules changes have ANYTHING to do with UConn. But secondly, lots of schools have done exactly what UConn did, including Duke and Louisville and many others. You're acting like it's a first.
 
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I agree with you that tougher admission standards would be the real way to go, but I seriously doubt if most coaches/athletic departments/CBS/ESPN really want that. I am hopeful that raising the APR will at least get coahces to focus on keeping their athletes taking classes seriously even when the basketball season ends. That has not been the case at UCONN in several years.

I'm obviously arguing that it will make student athletes take classes LESS seriously. Why risk your 4th year senior having trouble in his core courses toward the major? Stick him in joke classes and maybe earn a bonus from the AD. We all know this already happens when some stellar student athletes express an interest in some majors that require major time limitations.

Let's break things down a bit here:

If a student commits a crime, you can toss him out of school without it hitting your APR.
If a student is failing a class and decides to leave school before the semester is up, it hurts your APR.
If a student is failing a class, then commits a crime, you can toss him out of school without hitting your APR.

Someone go through the logic of this and then explain it to me.

This rule will cause all sorts of perverse workarounds that will further warp the relationship between academics and athletics.

I'll defer to John Calipari on this score. He's already a master of the APR.

People should read Tom Penders' comments on the APR. They cut to the quick.
 
Just as an FYI, Miles doesn't count against the APR, we're lead to believe.

If he did, it would perversely give incentive to schools to retain kids who run afoul of the law.

Of course, you can always improve your APR score by asking a kid who is failing to commit a crime that allows you to throw him out of school.

Then he won't count against your APR.

He doesn't? Can you share a link. I guess I buy the logic, but it seems that, for whatever reason, if a student starts classes (and I thought that he did), and doesn't finish in solid academic standing, that it is held against the institution.
 
I
If you read the thread, this comes down to one class which had an academically solid senior (Gavin Edwards) leave for training camp 6 credits shy of finishing, another who never played but never finished (Mandeldove), Nate Miles (obviously a disaster all around), and a couple of transfers who didn't take care of business.
I'd like to chime in on a couple things here...

If you are reading this whole thread you already know I come down on the side of personal responsibility. Nobody but the players themselves are ultimately responsible for their academic success. Period.

Beyond that, however, this sounds to me like it is really a weak way to prevent programs from taking a flyer on a kid. And if that's the real point, then you need to structure the rules that way. Because, honestly, that exactly the issue with Darius Smith and Jamal Trice. There is no link between academic potential and basketball talent. NONE. And the only reason either of those guys ran into trouble was because their basketball talent, ultimately, was not enough to measure up at a major division 1 program. Calhoun took a flyer on those guys because he was somewhat desperate for guards. They satisfied the academic entry requirements for eligibility.

I just don't understand why UConn should be punished over academics because Smith and Trice had 2-yr college and Juco level talents. Should they have been able to maintain their academics regardless of their playing time ? Sure. But, again, that's on them, primarily, and secondarily on teh athletic dept. as a whole.

Miles is another guy that Calhoun took a flyer on. The recruiting situation with Miles is irrelevant to the academic discussion completely. And then UConn gets docked on the APR because the University expelled him for disciplinary reasons. Calhoun and the athletic dept. never even had a CHANCE to keep the guy academically eligible.

Frankly, they need to stop trying to force-fit some kind of numerical, statistical system into place that makes it easy for the NCAA. If the NCAA wants to see academic progress, then they need to WORK at it. Make every university maintain a program for orientation, indoctrination, study habit evaluation, curriculum advisement, etc. Make them self-evaluate every player, and then aggregate that into a department-wide self evaluation and initiate corrective actions to improve individual player's performances and programmatic shortfalls. And then the NCAA audits some percentage of the schools every year. You get caught screwing it up and you get audited every year until you are taken off academic probation (such as reduced scholarships or post-season bans).

THAT would actually force the schools to do their work, but most importantly, it would actually make the NCAA do some work for a change, and to me, that seems to be the biggest reason for the BS APR system.

Honestly, you tell me how a program like that 1) can be fooled, and 2) how you blame Nate Miles situation on an inability to maintain academic standards. And the other thing here is that if you document the actions taken to try and keep Darius Smith and Jamal Trice on track, and yet they fail to uphold their personal responsibility, it is, again, hard to hold the university responsible for that.
 
Admit that you don't know the first thing about the APR and be done with it. Realize that we were docked for two kids in their 4th years that didn't complete their semesters. Then realize that Kentucky is doing just fine with their APR even though they have freshman jump to the NBA after a semester.

Do you understand what the APR is? You get the same credit for a graduate as you do for a freshman heading to the NBA. But low and behold, do NOT allow a 7th or 8th semester student to leave without completing that semester's classes.

In other words, it's a joke!
Maybe you should understand the system. It is remarkably easy to achieve a 925 with a little effort. It's also a simple system to understand, just a little math. They also allow APR adjustments when kids leave; it's important they are in good academic standing when they leave. So your wrong about getting the same credit for a kid leaving for the NBA as a kid graduating. The school must apply for an adjustment and show the student was in good standing to get credit upon a transfer or student going to the NBA.

Sounds like the system is working pretty well. All the other Big East programs including UConn football have no problem. It has been in place since 2005. Again, seems like the team took all this way too lightly.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Progress_Rate
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=6584182
 
He doesn't? Can you share a link. I guess I buy the logic, but it seems that, for whatever reason, if a student starts classes (and I thought that he did), and doesn't finish in solid academic standing, that it is held against the institution.

I thought so too, and freescooter provided a link several months back that showed it wasn't the case. It would create the perverse incentive to keep troubled students in classes. We were discussing this in relation to certain ACC players receiving a slap on the wrist for multiple offenses. I joked: at least it won't hurt their APR. And then I was informed that disciplinary cases don't count.

So, when a kid is failing in class, what you do is send an agent provocateur or agent of chaos to befriend him, take him out to an all night party, etc.
 
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