NCAA looking to raise APR to 900 for post-season effective immediately

[tzznandrew]

Gavin needed something like 6 credits to graduate, but didn't do it. That killed us.

Dove had 10 years to graduate with minimal interruptions due to basketball participation, and he still didn't do it. That killed us too.

I wonder if there is any way to get these two, especially Gavin, to pass.

 

[willie99]

Not having a grace period for something calculated over multiple years is beyond stupid. Don't think it will be approved.

I don't know how good and smart men can make such a rule retroactively, after it's too late to try and improve such score

then again, they are the bureaucrats that make up the NCAA. Although usually perceived to be intelligent people, bureaucrats wonder through life in a dense fog.

 

[johnhuskies95]

The staff told Jamal Coombs-McDaniel they wouldn't release him unless he stayed through both summer school sessions and got good enough grades.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't know how good and smart men can make such a rule retroactively, after it's too late to try and improve such score

then again, they are the bureaucrats that make up the NCAA. Although usually perceived to be intelligent people, bureaucrats wonder through life in a dense fog.

Yep. There is your problem right there. Incorrect assumption.

 

[tzznandrew]

I don't know how good and smart men can make such a rule retroactively, after it's too late to try and improve such score

then again, they are the bureaucrats that make up the NCAA. Although usually perceived to be intelligent people, bureaucrats wonder through life in a dense fog.

It really shouldn't be hard to keep you APR above the minimum. In fact, but for one class (Edwards, Mandeldove, Wiggins--to be fair, I'm assuming on him), and one player (Miles), that ducked up a couple of cycles, our APR is fine.

The fact that it shouldn't be hard shouldn't make mean that changes should be retroactively instated. They already took scholarships. At this point, any thing else just seems like spite--spite that will hurt students not even enrolled in the school when most of this went down.

 

[tzznandrew]

The staff told Jamal Coombs-McDaniel they wouldn't release him unless he stayed through both summer school sessions and got good enough grades.

I hadn't read that. If true, these are the necessary changes.

 

[intlzncster]

I wonder if there is any way to get these two, especially Gavin, to pass.

Yeah, I'm not sure how long the grace period is once you graduate. I'd be surprised if it's longer than 6 years from your first year of eligibility.

 

[arnie3]

The staff told Jamal Coombs-McDaniel they wouldn't release him unless he stayed through both summer school sessions and got good enough grades.

Yeah, I remember reading that,too. That was a 180 degree turn about.

 

[Robertelamin]

Gavin needed something like 6 credits to graduate, but didn't do it. That killed us.

Dove had 10 years to graduate with minimal interruptions due to basketball participation, and he still didn't do it. That killed us too.

Mandeldove has to be close to graduating right? Right???

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I wonder if there is any way to get these two, especially Gavin, to pass.

It is too late as his five year window lapsed. If we forced him to transfer before his senior year we would have been fine. If we convinced him to postpone his pursuit of a professional career overseas (so he could finish his coursework) we would have been fine. As we did the decent thing in his case it hurts our APR.

 

[upstater]

It is too late as his five year window lapsed. If we forced him to transfer before his senior year we would have been fine. If we convinced him to postpone his pursuit of a professional career overseas (so he could finish his coursework) we would have been fine. As we did the decent thing in his case it hurts our APR.

It's interesting to see a good student who makes it through 3 years of classes, the 3rd year at an advanced level in the major, hurts you, while schools like Kentucky get full credit (1 point, just as much as a graduate) for kids who leave after taking big intro classes (which might as well be Football 101) in their first years.

 

[champs99and04]

Regardless of whether other programs have been gaming the system, UConn's program deserves to be punished serverely if they cannot improve their APR. That said, they've already been punished by the APR with the deduction of scholarships. You wouldn't think it would be logical to punish this year or next years team for kids that did not meet the requirements five years ago. But then again, the NCAA has shown time and time again that they are not logical. Considering the program has already be punished because of APR scores, you'd think if they showed progress this year there would be no further punishment.

 

[TopDog18]

This is bush league. First off, the APR is a flawed system. It's not an true measure of student athlete's academic performance. I understand that the NCAA wants to implement more severe penalties for poor academic performance, but first create a more accurate system.

But to possibily implement a post season ban for this year is ridiculous. It gives Universities no time to properly adjust to ensure they meet the requirements.

Honestly, a post season ban in my mind is just too severe. For instance, if this policy goes into effect this year or even next year, we would not be eligible for the NCAA tournament either year! That would be a serious disservice to all players on the team who would not get the opportunity to play in the greatest sports tournament of the year, just because players from previous years team failed to graduate or even transfers. The only players left on the team from any of those embarrassing low APR years is AO. So how does it make since to possibly keep this team out of the tournament where all players currently on the team are getting it done in the classroom?

 

[DogMania]

Exactly. We're all expecting Uconn to utilize the waiver process to get one or both of the scholarships back. There's no reason not to expect a similar waiver process to be instituted even if they do approve the new standards. The key for Uconn is to have good scores going forward.

Boy do I hope you're right! Whatever the case, the NCAAs better make it clear that it is a likely outcome. If there program has to sweat it out till next spring or summer, it could prove devastating for our recruiting.

 

[DieHardHusky]

They're gonna do all they can to keep us out, especially with this whole AD debacle lately, and Bradley "giving" up his schollie. IMO

 

[huskyniner]

They're gonna do all they can to keep us out, especially with this whole AD debacle lately, and Bradley "giving" up his schollie. IMO

I can't believe it took someone this long to suggest this. I think it's pretty clear that the NCAA is not happy about the Bradley/Drummond situation and the fact that we won a national championship under a year in which we were under "punishment" with the docked schollies. The NCAA wants to get back at UConn in a way that would be legal and not cast them as the "bad guys".

 

[kobebeanbryant]

For all you Office watchers out there:

If they so much as harm a hair on our team's head, then we will burn the NCAA to the ground.

 

[huskyharry]

Clearly bureaucrats pushing their self-agrandizing agenda but...could be nefarious actors from the pro-UNC or pro-UK camps behind this?...say with the initials WWW?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Why not call up Edwards, Mandeldove, Sticks and whoever else can still boost the numbers, and have them right a one page paper about what they had for breakfast or their favorite color, and give them 15 credits for doing it. What's the NCAA going to do? Challenge us on this?

 

[RS9999X]

The rulebook says Jamal Coombs-McDaniel would be a 1-2 his spring semester unless he meets some additional considerations (2.6 average being one)

Adjustments for student-athletes who transfer:

a. The student-athlete transfers immediately to another four-year institution, which must be supported by documentation of the student-athlete's full-time enrollment at the subsequent institution.

b. The student-athlete attended the original institution for a minimum of one academic year;.

c. The student-athlete earned the eligibility point in the last term of enrollment prior to transfer;

d. The student-athlete presented a cumulative grade-point average of 2.6 or higher at the time of departure.

 

[Kitaman]

Reminds me of how the Feds operate. If they can't get one charge they will find/create another. Drummond signing retaliation?

 

[johnhuskies95]

I don't proclaim to know a ton about the APR system, but my guess is this has a lot to do with transfers.

UConn brought in 18 players from the 06-09 classes, and 10 of those guys left before their senior year(I'm counting Mandeldove in this although I don't know if he stayed his senior year or not). I'm sorry, but that is just a ridiculous number and something that I have to blame JC for. You just can't have that much constant turnover in your program and expect to have success with the APR.

 

[Deadrody]

At the meeting this morning Emmert was quoted as saying there would be few if any waivers granted.

And it takes a bit of common sense to recognize the difference between making public comments to appear stringent, and the reality where the NCAA has already shown they will grant waivers. Even if they DID want to change, they have already set precedent for granting waivers and they don't have a leg to stand on as far as not granting waivers equitably.

 

[Deadrody]

It's an association which can do just about anything they want.....but generally in law you can't make a law retroactive. .......and when you include a new rule and go back 4 years that's exactly what it is.

Bingo. And you generally cannot treat different entities different ways. If the NCAA has granted waivers based on presidential involvement and improvement plans in the past they legally cannot tell UConn, well, that was good for UAB, for instance, but not for you.

The NCAA is just asking for legal action if they try and implement punitive actions that are based on retroactive conditions AND by changing the rules upon which waivers are granted.

And for the record, I don't think this is e embarrassing at all. When I went to college it was nobodies responsibility for me to do well and graduate but MINE. The fact that these kids are given a free education and access to academic tutors and other benefits gives them a tremendous advantage over the majority of students at the school. They honestly have nobody to blame but themselves. And furthermore, IF I were to blame anyone, it would be the athletic department overall, not a specific program. The academic support function of the athletic department should absolutely not be specific to the sport you play. See ? UConn has already taken action in this area as well, as the ineffective Jeff Hathaway was forced into early retirement.

 

[Deadrody]

I can't believe it took someone this long to suggest this. I think it's pretty clear that the NCAA is not happy about the Bradley/Drummond situation and the fact that we won a national championship under a year in which we were under "punishment" with the docked schollies. The NCAA wants to get back at UConn in a way that would be legal and not cast them as the "bad guys".

Too bad this very attempt is unlikely to be viewed as "legal".

 

[HuskyHawk]

APR is a flawed formula. Some schools may game the system. Yes, kids are responsible for themselves (although some are brought in with UConn knowing they can't handle the work).

My one criticism of JC is the "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks" recruiting approach he's used in a few huge classes. Kids come in and we all know when they sign that they won't likely see much PT. When we need a scholarship later, they are encouraged to transfer. Wiggins for example, should have been allowed to go to St. Johns as he originally committed. We need to focus on recruiting kids who we know can play for us and make the grades. If we have an open scholarship, fine. We've shown last year you can win without the full compliment.

In the future, we're going to have to keep kids who aren't taking enough credits to graduate off the court to encourage them to stay on track.

 

[NHUConnfan]

UConn should have had better performance under the APR, but the fact is, minus that one year...we'd be fine and maintaining a 900 average would be OK. Anyone with half a brain could realize that having this as a four year average is incredibly stupid. It's just like when applying to college or graduate school - and let's say you got a D in a class or two. Will that raise red flags? Yes. But then there's the essay/personal statement that let you discuss that. Maybe your parents died in a car crash. Maybe you got sexually abused. Something traumatic...they'll most likely overlook it.

It's hard to equate those things to our situation, but some of them were simply just out of our hands. We could play the blame game and blame Jeff Hathaway, Jim Calhoun, admissions, the professors, the lunch lady at South Dining Hall - but the fact is, at some point, it becomes the responsibility of the student. There really was the perfect storm of kids who just "didn't get it" in Wiggins and Mandeldove. And then when you get other factors situated - it really does become the perfect storm.

I really don't think this has a chance of passing. Yes, maybe only a few schools would be under the APR line, but there will also be schools that are hovering around 900 that aren't so comfortable with the bar being raised that much higher. In addition, for those schools that are allegedly fudging their numbers, it just becomes that much harder. Maybe they know the spots to make up a few points here and there - but raising the number to 900 does make it that much harder for them too.

And whatever people say about being UConn haters and wanting this to happen - come tournament time, if UConn is ranked in the top 5 - it really won't matter. People want to see the best teams play. They want the best teams to play them so they feel like when they win, that it's legitimate. And remember, this comes out the same day that the NCAA wants to pay its students. You really have to question what is going on there - because they are really starting to lose their integrity.

As far as people concerned about UConn's fate in the next couple of years, the NCAA is working down a path to being nonexistent in a few years given their general incompetency. And while people may hate UConn, there are thousands of more people who hate the NCAA.

 

[upstater]

I don't proclaim to know a ton about the APR system, but my guess is this has a lot to do with transfers.

UConn brought in 18 players from the 06-09 classes, and 10 of those guys left before their senior year(I'm counting Mandeldove in this although I don't know if he stayed his senior year or not). I'm sorry, but that is just a ridiculous number and something that I have to blame JC for. You just can't have that much constant turnover in your program and expect to have success with the APR.

Nope. The problem with UConn has been UConn lifers who didn't finish out strong. Mandeldove was not a UConn transfer.

 

[upstater]

APR is a flawed formula. Some schools may game the system. Yes, kids are responsible for themselves (although some are brought in with UConn knowing they can't handle the work).

My one criticism of JC is the "throw it against the wall and see if it sticks" recruiting approach he's used in a few huge classes. Kids come in and we all know when they sign that they won't likely see much PT. When we need a scholarship later, they are encouraged to transfer. Wiggins for example, should have been allowed to go to St. Johns as he originally committed. We need to focus on recruiting kids who we know can play for us and make the grades. If we have an open scholarship, fine. We've shown last year you can win without the full compliment.

In the future, we're going to have to keep kids who aren't taking enough credits to graduate off the court to encourage them to stay on track.

Every school does this. When some kids perceive they will not get playing time, they go elsewhere. Others choose to be at the end of the bench. It's the nature of the beast. Wiggins, though, would have seen playing time at UConn. He saw playing time as a freshman. Lack of ability was not the reason Wiggins was shown the door, and I think his later career proved that as the same problems appeared over and over at lesser schools.

 

[TheDogPound]

LOSING