NCAA looking to raise APR to 900 for post-season effective immediately | Page 2 | The Boneyard

NCAA looking to raise APR to 900 for post-season effective immediately

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Best guess it's in place for

2012-2013 APR requirement at 900. Result: UConn banned
2013-2014 stays at 900. Result: UConn banned
2014-2015 raises to 930. Result: Most likely UConn banned.

The committee indicated that few, if any waivers would be given.
 
upstater said:
I saw a study on a Big Ten board that found there was absolutely no chance that the APR reported by several schools could correlate with the reported graduation number of those schools. In APR, you are given 1 point for graduation. When the statisticians added up all the numbers and took into account kids who failed and did not graduate, there was no way the APR of several schools jibed with their reported (low) graduate rate. In other words, the APR is supposed to give you credit for not only graduating players, but maintaining eligibility. Yet the stats showed that some of the scores could absolutely not be achieved given the reported grad rates at those schools.
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How many non UConn fans will ignore this information when they want to ridicule JC and UConn. How many fans in this forum will read what you wrote, or if they do, understand the implications. Or if they understand the implications how many will agree with it.

In this latter group there are people who would rightfully question a report coming from a source they are not familiar with. I'm not talking about you but the people who created the report. But there are also individual who come from families that have a history of finding fault within the family and feel the world outside the family is better. Individuals coming from these families are more critical of their own groups than outside groups. As you can tell it fascinates me how people react differently and what is the underlying basis for the reaction.
 
fleudslipcon said:
I can't imagine that implementing a new standard with past scores won't be contested in the courts. I believe the NCAA would have to make calculations starting with this academic year. Past academic years wouldn't be able to count against the new standards because universities can argue they acted in the past with an understanding of the previous penalties and standards.

And this new standard is only saber rattling. A lot of schools have already figured out how to game the statistics. Other schools, UConn included didn't attempt to fudge things. That will change with most schools. North Carolina is a good example of how easy it is to cover up things, and only major screw ups ever allow things to get revealed.

The only way to stop this is if the NCAA used some of its revenues to review every school every year for compliance. That will never happen. So all this posturing is a farce.
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I was just getting ready to post regarding this exact issue ...Great minds think alike. hahahahahaha
 
Rumrunner said:
My guess will be the NCAA follows the recommendation of the acad. committee and implements it for the 2012-2013 season.

If they do that, does UConn stilll qualify?

2009-2010's is going to be a killer.

'07-'08 909
'08-'09 844
'09-'10 826
'10-'11 1000

Average: 894

So next season, UConn is banned for sure.
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Can you imagine how bad things would have been if Jerome Dyson did not graduate in good standing.
 
Why don't they just raise the admissions standards?
What they are encouraging is this: bogus academic work. If I'm a school that allows classes like Football 101 (exam question: how much is a touchdown worth?) then I have a distinct advantage over schools without that sort of class. So, the way for other schools to compete, is to offer bogus courses for students.
Why are they so afraid of really evening the competition by upping admissions standards? That's the real question.

As it stands, this APR favors southern schools over northern schools.
 
Rumrunner said:
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...-requirements-for-postseason-play-on-friday/1

"Emmert said if approved, one proposal would immediately implement a baseline acceptable Academic Progress Rate (APR) requirement for postseason play of 900, which would include the 2012 NCAA men's basketball tournament."

________

Most calculations indicate UConn can't get the 4 year APR of 900 this year.

"Next year, the four-year rolling score will include individual academic year scores from 2007-08 (909), 2008-09 (844), 2009-10 (826) and 2010-11. That means UConn, even if it scores a perfect, 1,000, will be unable to boost its rolling score to 925 or even 900."

http://articles.courant.com/2011-05...tment-historical-penalties-basketball-program
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You are great at keeping us abreast of events. For people in this forum who may not be reading the realignment board, rumrunner has been linking a lot of articles on that board.

I'm not sure if you get a particular pleasure out of being the one to point out shock and fear to people. A lot of your links are to bad news articles and your comments surrounding these links are typically the worst case scenarios that you indicate are presented by articles but are just your opinions.
 
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upstater said:
Why don't they just raise the admissions standards?
What they are encouraging is this: bogus academic work. If I'm a school that allows classes like Football 101 (exam question: how much is a touchdown worth?) then I have a distinct advantage over schools without that sort of class. So, the way for other schools to compete, is to offer bogus courses for students.
Why are they so afraid of really evening the competition by upping admissions standards? That's the real question.

As it stands, this APR favors southern schools over northern schools.
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I don't think people get this. If Alabama offers Bass fishing 101 and the football team takes this course and all they have to do is hook a fish in a tub to get an A, how does a school like UConn compete with Alabama in getting athletes to graduate. But again not many posters in this thread are reading your statements or recognizing the implications of what you are saying.

BTW, on the realignment board someone posted one or more SEC schools offers bass fishing as a course, but I never took the time to see if that was the case.
 
Rumrunner said:
Best guess it's in place for

2012-2013 APR requirement at 900. Result: UConn banned
2013-2014 stays at 900. Result: UConn banned
2014-2015 raises to 930. Result: Most likely UConn banned.

The committee indicated that few, if any waivers would be given.
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Really? I Googled "NCAA APR Waiver" and found articles on 4 waivers on the first page alone...
 
alexd. said:
Really? I Googled "NCAA APR Waiver" and found articles on 4 waivers on the first page alone...
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At the meeting this morning Emmert was quoted as saying there would be few if any waivers granted.
 
I found another article that states that 7 schools received conditional waivers from post season bans for this coming year because of the following: demonstrated academic improvement, active presidential involvement, meeting certain APR benchmarks and implementation of an APR improvement plan. Hmmm....this all sounds sort of familiar after what we went through with the loss of the 2 scholeys. An actual improvement plan was part of the end result...
 
Rumrunner said:
At the meeting this morning Emmert was quoted as saying there would be few if any waivers granted.
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I read one article that said UConn would be banned from postseason play for the next 100 years
 
alexd. said:
I found another article that states that 7 schools received conditional waivers from post season bans for this coming year because of the following: demonstrated academic improvement, active presidential involvement, meeting certain APR benchmarks and implementation of an APR improvement plan. Hmmm....this all sounds sort of familiar after what we went through with the loss of the 2 scholeys. An actual improvement plan was part of the end result...
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This is the "new" NCAA red meat® enforcement policy, not the old lax one. Again, Emmert said it.
 
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fleudslipcon said:
I don't think people get this. If Alabama offers Bass fishing 101 and the football team takes this course and all they have to do is hook a fish in a tub to get an A, how does a school like UConn compete with Alabama in getting athletes to graduate. But again not many posters in this thread are reading your statements or recognizing the implications of what you are saying.

BTW, on the realignment board someone posted one or more SEC schools offers bass fishing as a course, but I never took the time to see if that was the case.
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1 credit Bass Fishing courses are fine. The problem is the four credit Football 101 courses being offered that were actually a part of a Sports Management degree program. Bass fishing doesn't count as credit toward fulfilling a major's requirements (I'm assuming) but I know the Football 101 course did.

By the way, I don't mean to sound contentious. I'm agreeing with you.
 
upstater said:
1 credit Bass Fishing courses are fine. The problem is the four credit Football 101 courses being offered that were actually a part of a Sports Management degree program. Bass fishing doesn't count as credit toward fulfilling a major's requirements (I'm assuming) but I know the Football 101 course did.

By the way, I don't mean to sound contentious. I'm agreeing with you.
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I knew you were agreeing with me.

There have been and still are, as this thread indicates, several UConn fans who are more upset with the apr for UConn, than they are about the inequities that exist among the various schools, both in reporting and course offerings, which make other schools look like they are operating better programs.

The first thing needed to be established is what takes place at the schools before the NCAA gets the apr report before a meaningful discussion about UConn's apr can take place.

You have pointed out two important points that no one has commented upon outside of myself. I find that interesting.
 
fleudslipcon said:
I knew you were agreeing with me.

There have been and still are, as this thread indicates, several UConn fans who are more upset with the apr for UConn, than they are about the inequities that exist among the various schools, both in reporting and course offerings, which make other schools look like they are operating better programs.

The first thing needed to be established is what takes place at the schools before the NCAA gets the apr report before a meaningful discussion about UConn's apr can take place.

You have pointed out two important points that no one has commented upon outside of myself. I find that interesting.
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Herbst herself criticized the APR when she came in.
I don't get it, why is it incumbent upon the coach to keep kids in line? If the school admits students who can do the level of schoolwork required, then it shouldn't be on the coach. This is on admissions. Sure, I feel a degree of responsibility for students and try to aid them as best I can, from meeting with them individually to taking heed of their problems as they come up to filing biweekly reports on their progress, but if a student fails out of my class I don't feel like I failed them particularly.
 
fleudslipcon said:
I knew you were agreeing with me.

There have been and still are, as this thread indicates, several UConn fans who are more upset with the apr for UConn, than they are about the inequities that exist among the various schools, both in reporting and course offerings, which make other schools look like they are operating better programs.

The first thing needed to be established is what takes place at the schools before the NCAA gets the apr report before a meaningful discussion about UConn's apr can take place.

You have pointed out two important points that no one has commented upon outside of myself. I find that interesting.
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I am upset with both UConn's performance and the way the APR is measured. And I think both are reasonable.

First, the APR, as currently formulated, is b.s. Add to that the fact that they are trying to institute a retroactive benchmark that we literally have no chance of meeting (as some have stated) is ridiculous. Hey, sorry Usain Bolt, the race actually started 10 seconds ago...go catch up.

At the same time, I think this is a deserved wake up call to take academics more seriously. Just because it happens at every school doesn't mean it has to happen here. I'm not saying every kid has to be Emeka, but they should be taking school seriously, and if they don't then we should hold them accountable. Maybe even at a higher standard than the NCAA.

By all accounts the group we have right now is doing great, both on the court and off. Unfortunately, the last group did not.
 
kobebeanbryant said:
I am upset with both UConn's performance and the way the APR is measured. And I think both are reasonable.

First, the APR, as currently formulated, is b.s. Add to that the fact that they are trying to institute a retroactive benchmark that we literally have no chance of meeting (as some have stated) is ridiculous. Hey, sorry Usain Bolt, the race actually started 10 seconds ago...go catch up.

At the same time, I think this is a deserved wake up call to take academics more seriously. Just because it happens at every school doesn't mean it has to happen here. I'm not saying every kid has to be Emeka, but they should be taking school seriously, and if they don't then we should hold them accountable. Maybe even at a higher standard than the NCAA.

By all accounts the group we have right now is doing great, both on the court and off. Unfortunately, the last group did not.
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I have no problem with elevating academic standards for students. The point upstater and I are making is that the same type of bb student exists in most of the Division I programs. Outside of a few institutions, such as the Ivy league schools, the level of academic performance is probably similar in all the institutions regarding basket ball players. So why is UConns numbers lower than other institutions? You presume the problem is with UConn.

Maybe the problem is that the other universities are gaming the system.

Either they are offering courses that are easier at other universities or those universities are cheating in reporting the numbers to the NCAA. Upstater has voiced evidence that both exists. UConn cannot compete with other schools for the type of athlete that is necessary to be a great program if it continues to be honest in how it handles the athletic student vs. how other universities are handling athletic students.
 
It's an association which can do just about anything they want.....but generally in law you can't make a law retroactive. .......and when you include a new rule and go back 4 years that's exactly what it is.
 
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johnhuskies95 said:
So, is there a legitimate chance we aren't able to play in the tourney this year?
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On this issue I agree with Chief00. If they come up with a new standard they will have to start in the season of that new standard with the scoring system. So the answer to your question is no if Chief, BlueDog, and I are correct.
 
fleudslipcon said:
I have no problem with elevating academic standards for students. The point upstater and I are making is that the same type of bb student exists in most of the Division I programs. Outside of a few institutions, such as the Ivy league schools, the level of academic performance is probably similar in all the institutions regarding basket ball players. So why is UConns numbers lower than other institutions? You presume the problem is with UConn.

Maybe the problem is that the other universities are gaming the system.

Either they are offering courses that are easier at other universities or those universities are cheating in reporting the numbers to the NCAA. Upstater has voiced evidence that both exists. UConn cannot compete with other schools for the type of athlete that is necessary to be a great program if it continues to be honest in how it handles the athletic student vs. how other universities are handling athletic students.
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Most of this is Nate Miles and some of the fall-out of guys we had that didn't work out so well (say, Doug Wiggins).

That class in general hurt us with regards to graduation numbers.
 
tzznandrew said:
Most of this is Nate Miles and some of the fall-out of guys we had that didn't work out so well (say, Doug Wiggins).

That class in general hurt us with regards to graduation numbers.
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Bad standing for Darius and Jonathan too.
 
aren't there players that UConn can drag back to take a few courses and graduate? I agree with the above stated opinions about making something retroactive. It would be like making a new law that says if you have 2 speeding tickets within a 4 year period you lose your license when the current law allows for more than 2 without a loss of license. That would be pretty absurd.
 
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Someone tell me, what are the chances we get banned? it seems BS that something like this could get passed with no notice, but I know many people have it out for JC. Also, if some of the guys who were in bad academic standing go back and get a degree does a previous year's score increase?
 
upstater said:
1 credit Bass Fishing courses are fine. The problem is the four credit Football 101 courses being offered that were actually a part of a Sports Management degree program. Bass fishing doesn't count as credit toward fulfilling a major's requirements (I'm assuming) but I know the Football 101 course did.
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The amusing thing, to me at any rate, is that a 1 credit Bass Fishing course would be more useful in life than a 4 credit sports management-Football 101 course.
 
Will Coombs' transfer end up affecting the APR? I have no idea how the APR actually works.
 
arnie3 said:
Bad standing for Darius and Jonathan too.
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Gavin needed something like 6 credits to graduate, but didn't do it. That killed us.

Dove had 10 years to graduate with minimal interruptions due to basketball participation, and he still didn't do it. That killed us too.
 
babysheep said:
Will Coombs' transfer end up affecting the APR? I have no idea how the APR actually works.
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Not if he was in good academic standing. I have heard nothing to say that he wasn't in good standing when he left.
 
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