NCAA.com - Best college PGs in the last 30 years

[Mike Honcho]

The Glove, Penny, Bobby Hurley, Jay Williams, Jameer Nelson, Steph Curry, Jimmer, Kemba

No Shabazz.

Link

One word comes to mind when discussing Walker: clutch. Kemba was good throughout his Connecticut career, but for a stretch in 2010-11, he was otherworldly.

Walker led the Huskies to the Big East tournament crown and the national championship that season, averaging 23.5 points, 5.4 rebounds and 4.9 assists per game as a junior. Late-game heroics came to be expected of Walker by the end of that season, which is the ultimate compliment for the best player on a team.

Walker was the Most Outstanding Player of the 2011 Final Four and a consensus first-team All-American. His ability to create separation – with stepback jumpers and elite ball-handling ability – will always be remembered. Walker was a good player early in his UConn career; by the time he left, he was a legendary one. Anyone who puts a team on his back to win a national championship deserves to be on this list.​

 

[Mr. French]

The Glove, Penny, Bobby Hurley, Jay Williams, Jameer Nelson, Steph Curry, Jimmer, Kemba

No Shabazz.

Link

One word comes to mind when discussing Walker: clutch. Kemba was good throughout his Connecticut career, but for a stretch in 2010-11, he was otherworldly.

Walker led the Huskies to the Big East tournament crown and the national championship that season, averaging 23.5 points, 5.4 rebounds and 4.9 assists per game as a junior. Late-game heroics came to be expected of Walker by the end of that season, which is the ultimate compliment for the best player on a team.

Walker was the Most Outstanding Player of the 2011 Final Four and a consensus first-team All-American. His ability to create separation – with stepback jumpers and elite ball-handling ability – will always be remembered. Walker was a good player early in his UConn career; by the time he left, he was a legendary one. Anyone who puts a team on his back to win a national championship deserves to be on this list.​

That makes no sense.

Best COLLEGE point guards, he must be there. In addition, the guy makes the claim in his last sentence on Kemba, then doesn't follow his own edict.

 

[HuskyFich]

No Shabazz.

Anyone who puts a team on his back to win a national championship deserves to be on this list.

Emmert must be the senior editor:

"I'll give him dining hall food, but one present is enough for that damn hungry husky"

 

[MadDogRevival]

Kemba was critical to that 11 team. Shabazz was just as critical. For every big shot Kemba hit, Shabazz hit one as well.
And, no disrespect at all to Kemba, the teams that Shabazz beat on the way to the NC were flat out better. Oh, and Shabazz has two, LOL.

My point is only that including one without the other is asinine, and they put excessive value on Jimmer being a high-volume scorer and leading his team to the elite eight. Whoopee.

 

[Storrs South]

the teams that Shabazz beat on the way to the NC were flat out better.

From a seeding perspective, yes Shabazz had a harder road. However, in 2011 they had to go to Anaheim, California and effectively play road games against San Diego State and Arizona just to get to the Final Four compared to the friendly confines of MSG.

2011 also matched up against at the time future NBA talents Kawhi Leonard, Derrick Williams, Brandon Knight, and Terrence Jones. 2014 was I think just Denzel Valentine, maybe Payne, Julius Randle, and James Young. That 1st list looks way more talented.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there are other variables that make both the 2011 and 2014 paths to the championship relatively similar in difficulty but I agree the teams in a vacuum were better.

 

[MadDogRevival]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there are other variables that make both the 2011 and 2014 paths to the championship relatively similar in difficulty but I agree the teams in a vacuum were better.

It's certainly arguable, and I respect that one could reasonably concluded differently, but to me it's not close.
Start with this - future NBA success is not the same thing as how you do in college. Sure, in hindsight Leonard was a hall of famer, but he was the team. Same with the Arizona kid. For the life of me, I'll never understand why the coach stopped going to that dude - he was killing us like a white Syracuse point guard. Anyway, in 11 we played Butler in the finals, and they were flat out awful and part of the reason that that finals is so maligned. In 14 we played a totally loaded UK team, with Poythress, the twins, Randall, Young. That team was wall to wall studs. Florida also had an excellent team that had what? One loss besides us? MSU was very, very good. We were picked by most to lose every game we played!

In any case, love them both, quite clearly.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Kemba was critical to that 11 team. Shabazz was just as critical. For every big shot Kemba hit, Shabazz hit one as well.
And, no disrespect at all to Kemba, the teams that Shabazz beat on the way to the NC were flat out better.

My point is only that including one without the other is asinine.

Kemba was better than Bazz that's not being disrespectful it's just stating fact
KW elevated freshman and sophomores beyond their level that's a test of PG
Bazz played with an experienced cast.
The media gave Bazz too much recognition for that run . The 2014 NC was one of the truly great team efforts of all time.The telling moment is when Bazz had to sit the crew picked it up .
If KW ever had to sit the wheels would have come off the wagon.
Remember even with Bazz at point Kemba was playing the two.
Bazz was a great UConn PG with two rings most of the other guys on the list have 0 ,that should be enough.

 

[InKembaITrust]

Kemba was better than Bazz that's not being disrespectful it's just stating fact
KW elevated freshman and sophomores beyond their level that's a test of PG
Bazz played with an experienced cast.
The media gave Bazz too much recognition for that run . The 2014 NC was one of the truly great team efforts of all time.The telling moment is when Bazz had to sit the crew picked it up .
If KW ever had to sit the wheels would have come off the wagon.
Remember even with Bazz at point Kemba was playing the two.
Bazz was a great UConn PG with two rings most of the other guys on the list have 0 ,that should be enough.

Agreed.

Gotta throw in the fact that Kemba willed the conference championship as well. Shabazz came close in 14', gotta give him credit, but no conference championship when the team was his.

I do have to say tho that not having Shabazz on this list is about as laughable as Jimmer beating out Kemba for player of the year, and BEN HANSBROUGH winning Big East player of the year.

blasphemy

 

[gtcam]

Jimmer but no Bazz ?????????????
Where is the rationale in that one?

 

[bballgrda]

From a seeding perspective, yes Shabazz had a harder road. However, in 2011 they had to go to Anaheim, California and effectively play road games against San Diego State and Arizona just to get to the Final Four compared to the friendly confines of MSG.

2011 also matched up against at the time future NBA talents Kawhi Leonard, Derrick Williams, Brandon Knight, and Terrence Jones. 2014 was I think just Denzel Valentine, maybe Payne, Julius Randle, and James Young. That 1st list looks way more talented.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there are other variables that make both the 2011 and 2014 paths to the championship relatively similar in difficulty but I agree the teams in a vacuum were better.

Best NBA player they faced in 2014 was probably Gary Harris. I agree with your point though.

 

[Horatio]

C'mon people. They're not gonna give Uconn two guys on this list even if we may deserve two guys on this list.

 

[Mr. French]

Bazz suffers from "just saw that" syndrome in this case... I think a lot of you and clearly some national people are underrating his run compared to Kemba.

If I HAD to choose, I'd probably pick Kemba, but there are tons of objective reasons why you could argue Bazz was just as or more impressive.

I'll never forget either run; they were special as hell. Kemba's took on immortal status almost immediately, and that's tough to surpass no matter how good.

Make no mistake though, Bazz carried that team in many of the same ways, and if you separate the external factors and look objectively, it should be right there as an all time great run by a single player.

 

[champs99and04]

From a seeding perspective, yes Shabazz had a harder road. However, in 2011 they had to go to Anaheim, California and effectively play road games against San Diego State and Arizona just to get to the Final Four compared to the friendly confines of MSG.

2011 also matched up against at the time future NBA talents Kawhi Leonard, Derrick Williams, Brandon Knight, and Terrence Jones. 2014 was I think just Denzel Valentine, maybe Payne, Julius Randle, and James Young. That 1st list looks way more talented.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but there are other variables that make both the 2011 and 2014 paths to the championship relatively similar in difficulty but I agree the teams in a vacuum were better.

Out of curiosity I looked up the KenPom rankings of the teams we played:

2011 - Bucknell (95), Cincinnati (21), San Diego State (8), Arizona (20), Kentucky (7), Butler (37)

2014 - St. Joes (55), Villanova (11), Iowa State (20), Michigan State (9), Florida (3), Kentucky (13)

Average of 31.3 for 2011, 18.5 for 2014. Even accounting for the outlier in Bucknell, 2011 (18.6 average) is still well behind 2014 (11.2 average).

By the eye test, I think the gap is even greater. 2014 went through a red-hot St. Joes team fresh off an A-10 championship, a 29-4 Villanova team, an Iowa State squad that had just won the Big 12 title, a Michigan State team that at the time was the perceived favorite to win it all (they battled injuries throughout the season that depressed their ranking, but they were definitely a top 5 team), a Florida team riding a 30 game win streak, and then a Cinderella Kentucky squad loaded with pros that seemed to be a team of destiny. Every team we played in that tournament - sans Kentucky - won either their regular season conference title or their conference tournament.

Save for Leonard, none of the players you list from the 2011 run are anything special. From 2014, don't forget about Langston Galloway (carved out a nice spot in the league), Josh Hart (pending 1st rounder), and Gary Harris (potential future all-star).

Your point about the location of the games is well-taken, but if we're trying to discredit 2011, what sticks out is the fact that they didn't beat a single top five team (granted SDSU and Kentucky had arguments). 2014 beat the consensus #1 team in the country and the team that had been picked more than any other to win it all. In 2011, we avoided some loaded top seeds like Kansas, Duke, and Ohio State that I'm not sure we matched up well with.

Interesting debate, but for my money it's convincingly 2014 that was more impressive in the NCAA Tournament. Add the conference tournaments to the mix, and it's definitely 2011.

 

[ucp990411]

The Glove, Penny, Bobby Hurley, Jay Williams, Jameer Nelson, Steph Curry, Jimmer, Kemba

No Shabazz.

Link

One word comes to mind when discussing Walker: clutch. Kemba was good throughout his Connecticut career, but for a stretch in 2010-11, he was otherworldly.

Walker led the Huskies to the Big East tournament crown and the national championship that season, averaging 23.5 points, 5.4 rebounds and 4.9 assists per game as a junior. Late-game heroics came to be expected of Walker by the end of that season, which is the ultimate compliment for the best player on a team.

Walker was the Most Outstanding Player of the 2011 Final Four and a consensus first-team All-American. His ability to create separation – with stepback jumpers and elite ball-handling ability – will always be remembered. Walker was a good player early in his UConn career; by the time he left, he was a legendary one. Anyone who puts a team on his back to win a national championship deserves to be on this list.​

What about Khalid

 

[champs99and04]

Bazz suffers from "just saw that" syndrome in this case... I think a lot of you and clearly some national people are underrating his run compared to Kemba.

If I HAD to choose, I'd probably pick Kemba, but there are tons of objective reasons why you could argue Bazz was just as or more impressive.

I'll never forget either run; they were special as hell. Kemba's took on immortal status almost immediately, and that's tough to surpass no matter how good.

Make no mistake though, Bazz carried that team in many of the same ways, and if you separate the external factors and look objectively, it should be right there as an all time great run by a single player.

Kemba had the better season, Bazz had the better NCAA tournament, IMO.

In a vacuum, Bazz isn't an egregious omission. He was a really good college player who was not the individual talent that most of the other guys on the list were (I would quibble with Bobby Hurley and Jimmer, but most of those guys are in a different talent realm than Bazz), but considering how decorated he is and how special he was during the '14 run, he should be included.

 

[Horatio]

What about Khalid

Exactly. That makes three

 

[intlzncster]

C'mon people. They're not gonna give Uconn two guys on this list even if we may deserve two guys on this list.

3. KEA ftw


EDIT: beaten to the punch. just saw the posts above

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

They limit the list to 9. Makes me wonder who'd be #10.

 

[Mr. French]

I don't think it's fair to bottle up these guys in just their tourney runs.

Both guys had some bumps along the way, but I'll be damned if Shabazz isn't the picture of a great college point guard in Webster's.

 

[MadDogRevival]

In a vacuum, Bazz isn't an egregious omission. He was a really good college player who was not the individual talent that most of the other guys on the list were

Disagree, if we are looking for "best college PG" in the last 30 years.
So are we looking for "best PG" or "individual talent?"

See, that's my point. If you want to go with "athletic" or "shooter" then SN doesn't make the top 30 and I buy that no problem.

But the "best PG" is the guy who best leads his team. At least, in my book. Shabazz was a phenomenal leader, and he was white-hot when it mattered. The dude hit huge shot after huge shot to keep leads, and ripped out the opponents hearts from the line. Anybody else remember Calipari giving up on fouling?

So they throw in a guy like Curry, whose 3rd year stats read:
28/5.6/4.4 (pts/assts/boards) on 39% shooting from 3 while playing in a crap conference and missing the tourni (after making the elite 8 a year earlier).
Compare that to SN in his final year:
18/5/6 on 41% shooting from 3. Oh yeah, and a 2nd national title.

Point is, they're asking one question but then answering a different question.
Undoubtedly Curry had more talent, but it's not fair to say he was a "better college PG" than Napier when he couldn't even get his team to the tourni in his final year.

 

[champs99and04]

Disagree, if we are looking for "best college PG" in the last 30 years.
So are we looking for "best PG" or "individual talent?"

See, that's my point. If you want to go with "athletic" or "shooter" then SN doesn't make the top 30 and I buy that no problem.

But the "best PG" is the guy who best leads his team. At least, in my book. Shabazz was a phenomenal leader, and he was white-hot when it mattered. The dude hit huge shot after huge shot to keep leads, and ripped out the opponents hearts from the line. Anybody else remember Calipari giving up on fouling?

So they throw in a guy like Curry, whose 3rd year stats read:
28/5.6/4.4 (pts/assts/boards) on 39% shooting from 3 while playing in a crap conference and missing the tourni (after making the elite 8 a year earlier).
Compare that to SN in his final year:
18/5/6 on 41% shooting from 3. Oh yeah, and a 2nd national title.

Point is, they're asking one question but then answering a different question.
Undoubtedly Curry had more talent, but it's not fair to say he was a "better college PG" than Napier when he couldn't even get his team to the tourni in his final year.

Ehhh...we can argue semantics, and I understand your position, but to some degree you can't separate talent from "best." There's no way to know what would have happened if you had swapped Curry in for Bazz during the '14 title run, but by the same token I'm skeptical that Bazz takes Davidson to the elite eight like Curry did.

Overall, I think Curry's just better. I think he was better in college and he's obviously better in the NBA. You can't attribute a scoring differential of ten points to the quality of the conference - remember, Shabazz did what he did in the AAC, and if we're parsing details like that, I'd be willing to bet that Curry's production didn't dip much against better competition.

Is it somewhat of a fallacy on my part to use their NBA careers to evaluate what they were as college players? Sure, but when there are so many circumstantial variables to account for, "talent" - however vaguely it's defined - is probably the best way to standardize the scoring system. In this case, if the talent disparity is so pronounced now, that likely means it was concealed by situational factors in college. That UConn team was far from loaded, but it still featured considerably more talent than what Curry played with at Davidson.

(One thing I'll say is that Curry wasn't really a point guard in college, so if you want to get picky about position labels, perhaps he shouldn't even qualify for a list like this)

 

[Beak7774]

Its like 1a and 1b to me. If I'm down 1 or 2 I want the ball in Kemba's hands for the win tie or and-1. If I'm down 3 I want Bazz for a how did he get that off 3 to tie and then remember him in OT? A killer. Bottom line both deserve to be on the list and down late I never thought we were out of it with either guy, no matter how big the game.

 

[mauconnfan]

Jimmer vs Bazz huh? I mean who had a bigger impact on success of his team? These lists are a bit bit weak a lot and open for criticism anyway so whatever.

 

[MadDogRevival]

You can't attribute a scoring differential of ten points to the quality of the conference

No, you attribute it to one guy shooting more, particularly when he shoots the 3 at a lower percentage!
Bazz didn't need to shoot more. He shot when he needed to, and his selection was phenomenal. That's one of the reasons he was so great.
But you're basing a lot of your opinion on talent, which is not the question. It's not just semantics. "Talent" and "Great" are not directly connected, but rather connected by "Will," Else Ryan Leaf is one the greatest QBs to ever play.
It's revisionist.
Curry lost to College of Charleston in the semi-finals (not finals) of his conference tourni his last year (shooting 5-18), then lost in the NIT second round to St. Mary's (shooting 11-27).
Sorry, not "great PG" results in his final year.

But that's the point, isn't it, and it's not semantics. It's the heart of the question - what makes great?

 

[upstater]

Kemba was better than Bazz that's not being disrespectful it's just stating fact
KW elevated freshman and sophomores beyond their level that's a test of PG
Bazz played with an experienced cast.
The media gave Bazz too much recognition for that run . The 2014 NC was one of the truly great team efforts of all time.The telling moment is when Bazz had to sit the crew picked it up .
If KW ever had to sit the wheels would have come off the wagon.
Remember even with Bazz at point Kemba was playing the two.
Bazz was a great UConn PG with two rings most of the other guys on the list have 0 ,that should be enough.

Agreed that Kemba was better than Bazz.
Disagree about the cast members. Kemba's were way more talented, Oriakhi, Roscoe, Jeremy Lamb.
Compared to Deandre, Phil Nolan, Boatright. I mean, there is quite a difference there.