NCAA’s Emmert: It is time to decentralize college sports

[billybud]

John Infante didn't do his homework citing Mississippi State as an example of a small school preventing "big schools" from doing something..

Mississippi State's athletic budget is top 30 and more than programs like Purdue, UCLA, Rutgers, etc.....and is four times the budget of La Tech...Maybe the guy is confusing Southern Miss with Mississippi State...

 

[huskymedic]

John Infante didn't do his homework citing Mississippi State as an example of a small school preventing "big schools" from doing something..

Mississippi State's athletic budget is top 30 and more than programs like Purdue, UCLA, Rutgers, etc.....and is four times the budget of La Tech...Maybe the guy is confusing Southern Miss with Mississippi State...

He’s not confused @ all… read his timeline. He’s not referencing size of the AD but stature compared to the “flagship” in the State (Ole Miss/UT).

 

[billybud]

He’s not confused @ all… read his timeline. He’s not referencing size of the AD but stature compared to the “flagship” in the State (Ole Miss/UT).

If he is not confused, he is mistaken....the Mississippi State's, Texas A&M's, Oklahoma State's, Michigan State's, Auburn's, Clemson's, and FSU's ( as non Flagships) have no interest in preventing "big schools" from doing something.

Disclaimer....I did spend some time at Mississippi State in a three week seminar paid for by my employer....lovely folks there in the way, way back. Men wore coats and ties to the stadium and the women wore dresses...it was strange for the late 70's where I often wore my old utility field jacket and jeans to games.

 

[billybud]

Vandy has made their bed...and hasn't been compatible in football for years with the SEC. Much like Indiana in the B1G.

Mississippi State did win the CWS this year and Vandy puts up good baseball teams....but the truth is, amongst the football machines of Bama, LSU, Georgia, Auburn, Texas A&M, Florida....the Mississippi's, South Carolina's, Tennessee's, Kentucky's also have little chance of an SEC Champiionship.

 

[huskymedic]

The P5 will fare worse in court than the NCAA if it tries to be exclusionary. 9-0 is definitely not a Supreme Court decision that I would want to test if I was the SEC.

Yup… they will just try to make it untenable for all the “have-nots”:

 

[the Q]

Yup… they will just try to make it untenable for all the “have-nots”:

they would be happy with enough power to not break away.

But it’s a nice button to have a threat…

 

[freescooter]

Sometimes when people talk the talk they end up creating a situation where they have to walk because everyone buys their rhetoric. Even if it is ultimately dumb, if you are the SEC and make some demand that isn’t met, you might create a situation where you have to break away. I actually could see something foolish happen that ends up hurting both college sports generally and the SEC at the same time for foolish reasons.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Yup… they will just try to make it untenable for all the “have-nots”:

If everyone in the negotiation knows the P5 can't walk away without triggering a massive anti-trust lawsuit that the P5 will lose, then the P5 has less leverage to force changes. The P5 needs to figure out a way to push through changes that do not specifically advantage the P5 because of its cartel power.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The P5 will fare worse in court than the NCAA if it tries to be exclusionary. 9-0 is definitely not a Supreme Court decision that I would want to test if I was the

Why? . The precedent is already set of multiple rules for classes within the Organization. D1 , D2, D3 all play by different rules now.
The additional class say D1 + for football is no big precedent.
The real argument has little to do with rules and a lot to do with money.
The football playoffs have the potential to be as big a source of revenue for the body as the basketball playoffs.
I suspect distribution of monies from both events is an issue .
The P5 who honestly creates that revenue don’t won’t to share
Even Indies like UConn get $800,000 a year from those playoffs.
The top G5 conference could earn $20,000,000 a year. Pretty good gig for non participation.
Expansion is a huge moneymaker for the NCAA but face it could impact
P5 revenue negatively.

Vandy has made their bed...and hasn't been compatible in football for years with the SEC. Much like Indiana in the B1G.

Mississippi State did win the CWS this year and Vandy puts up good baseball teams....but the truth is, amongst the football machines of Bama, LSU, Georgia, Auburn, Texas A&M, Florida....the Mississippi's, South Carolina's, Tennessee's, Kentucky's also have little chance of an SEC Champiionship.

Vanderbilt would be more similar to Northwestern as they’re both pretty prestigious private research schools.
IU is the Flagship University of a large state. Kentucky would be a closer match to IU .also roughly simalar to UConn where the BB teams are traditionally more successful than football. They’re also pretty close geographically.

 

[CL82]

 

[superjohn]

Vandy has made their bed...and hasn't been compatible in football for years with the SEC. Much like Indiana in the B1G.

Mississippi State did win the CWS this year and Vandy puts up good baseball teams....but the truth is, amongst the football machines of Bama, LSU, Georgia, Auburn, Texas A&M, Florida....the Mississippi's, South Carolina's, Tennessee's, Kentucky's also have little chance of an SEC Champiionship.

Vandy has the best baseball program in the country.

 

[billybud]

Vandy has the best baseball program in the country.

Vandy has great baseball...Mississippi State just won the CWS...7 of the last 12 CWS winners were SEC teams...including Vandy, Mississippi State, LSU, South Carolina, and Florida....the SEC is a great baseball conference.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Why? . The precedent is already set of multiple rules for classes within the Organization. D1 , D2, D3 all play by different rules now.
The additional class say D1 + for football is no big precedent.
The real argument has little to do with rules and a lot to do with money.
The football playoffs have the potential to be as big a source of revenue for the body as the basketball playoffs.
I suspect distribution of monies from both events is an issue .
The P5 who honestly creates that revenue don’t won’t to share
Even Indies like UConn get $800,000 a year from those playoffs.
The top G5 conference could earn $20,000,000 a year. Pretty good gig for non participation.
Expansion is a huge moneymaker for the NCAA but face it could impact
P5 revenue negatively.

Vanderbilt would be more similar to Northwestern as they’re both pretty prestigious private research schools.
IU is the Flagship University of a large state. Kentucky would be a closer match to IU .also roughly simalar to UConn where the BB teams are traditionally more successful than football. They’re also pretty close geographically.

The NCAA just got throttled in an anti-trust case. The justices just spoke pretty clearly about how they feel about the structure of college sports, and the NCAA was not being that punitive to the athletes. Do you think a P5 that is exploiting athletes for tens of millions of dollars of revenue PER SCHOOL and squeezing out smaller schools solely because they are not part of the cartel will do better?

 

[Chuck]

The NCAA just got throttled in an anti-trust case. The justices just spoke pretty clearly about how they feel about the structure of college sports, and the NCAA was not being that punitive to the athletes. Do you think a P5 that is exploiting athletes for tens of millions of dollars of revenue PER SCHOOL and squeezing out smaller schools solely because they are not part of the cartel will do better?

I think the P5 squeeze can be very different than the NCAA beating. The NCAA got crushed because they created blanket rules that allowed the NCAA and it's institutions to profit off of the athletes and not let the athletes profit in any way. That's not what the P5 would be doing. The P5 can set "objective" criteria. The objective criteria would be hard/impossible for others to meet, but it's open. The P5 would actually claim that this allows them to compensate the athletes at a higher (more fair) level.

The Justice Department has saber-rattled over the years, but they haven't done much to break up or stop monopolies that are much worse than the P5 would be. There are 130 FBS schools. 50% are P5 (plus they'll find a way to include ND and BYU). Maybe 20 schools have an argument that they can be included with the P5?

 

[the Q]

I think the P5 squeeze can be very different than the NCAA beating. The NCAA got crushed because they created blanket rules that allowed the NCAA and it's institutions to profit off of the athletes and not let the athletes profit in any way. That's not what the P5 would be doing. The P5 can set "objective" criteria. The objective criteria would be hard/impossible for others to meet, but it's open. The P5 would actually claim that this allows them to compensate the athletes at a higher (more fair) level.

The Justice Department has saber-rattled over the years, but they haven't done much to break up or stop monopolies that are much worse than the P5 would be. There are 130 FBS schools. 50% are P5 (plus they'll find a way to include ND and BYU). Maybe 20 schools have an argument that they can be included with the P5?

and schools like gonzaga would have to be willing to add football…

 

[billybud]

If you look at Kavanaugh's add on to the decision...it may be telling...

“Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate. And under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different. The NCAA is not above the law.”

Now, the P5 might be able to pay a fair market rate that is different than what is the market rate for a player at program like Tulane or Akron. If the Justices want player remuneration tied to the revenue that they produce for the school, surely Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, et al, should offer more.

 

[the Q]

If you look at Kavanaugh's add on to the decision...it may be telling...

“Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate. And under ordinary principles of antitrust law, it is not evident why college sports should be any different. The NCAA is not above the law.”

Now, the P5 might be able to pay a fair market rate that is different than what is the market rate for a player at program like Tulane or Akron. If the Justices want player remuneration tied to the revenue that they produce for the school, surely Alabama, LSU, Ohio State, et al, should offer more.

I would argue kavanaugh ignored minor league baseball here. But that might also depend how you determine the “hours worked” for them

 

[billybud]

I would argue kavanaugh ignored minor league baseball here. But that might also depend how you determine the “hours worked” for them

The NFL has a salary cap that is negotiated with the players union ($208 million in 2022)...of course a team doesn't have to pay up to the cap...

Minor league baseball? Minimal media income...Most minor league teams averaged less than 5,000 in attendance in 2019...and only one team averaged 9,000...

The minor league teams aren't printing dollars...some are semi subsidized by the Majors to develop players....MLB cut 18 teams as farm clubs as they belt tightened and suggested others join independent or amateur leagues.