OT: NBA Playoffs

[MilliniumPrince]

They were well on their way to making the playoffs too in '02 if MJ didn't get hurt. He was starting to play out of his mind again.



And this is in a brutal NBA in terms of pace, scoring, and physicality.

It was a long time ago but I think they were a top-three seed in the East when he injured his knee and the Wiz were getting better and better. Rip missed a bunch of time that year. Washington had an insane record with the two of them on the court. One article online says they went 15-1 in games Rip and MJ played together pre-knee injury.

I can't wait to see how LeBron's twilight years go. If this dude wants to he can probably play another 7-10 years and at age 35, to me, he's still easily the best player in the league. I can see him averaging 20/5/5 off the bench at age 43 or something stupid.

If I remember correctly, they had a good record in games when both he and Rip played. Injuries got in the way.

The GM Jordan traded RIP for Stackhouse, which was a fatal move.

 

[Mr. French]

Trolling

My edit: The non trolling aspect is people tend to forget MJ failed on the Wizards. Not making the playoffs is ridiculous given how bad the east was. Age has is an excuse for MJ but Lebron doesn't need that excuse yet.
I get MJ has the rings but Lebron has had a better career and if we have this conversation after Lebron retires the GOAT conversation will probably be unanimous for Lebron.

Meh, opinions are opinions but you’re wrong, haha.

Kareem, by the way, has the best career of all time and it’s tough to believe Lebron could top him, though I guess it’s possible. Championships, MVPs, Age/longevity...

Lebron will be in the discussion and both will have arguments over MJ for best career, but neither are “greater” than Michael Jordan.

 

[Mr. French]

I’m also confused by people saying MJs opponents weren’t any good...Barkley, Drexler and co., the Lakers with Magic and co., Stockton and Malone, Payton and Kemp (Kemp’s career went downhill but that Sonics team was the best in the west for multiple years and Payton is a surefire HOFer).

People talking crap about Barkley (who was MVP when MJ beat him, deservedly so - as was Malone) must think he was at fat as he is now...dude was GREAT.

 

[MDHuskFan]

Brings first tenure in Cleveland was doomed whenever they didn’t want to trade/include “rising star” JJ Hickson for Amare

 

[Rocktheworld]

People talking crap about Barkley (who was MVP when MJ beat him, deservedly so - as was Malone) must think he was at fat as he is now...dude was GREAT.

And yet, the Spurs and Warriors dynasties far outclass anything MJ faced in the Finals. That’s all I’m really saying.

 

[Scoe]

MJ stopped players from winning a championship, Lebron didn’t.

 

[the Q]

MJ stopped players from winning a championship, Lebron didn’t.

Kind of arbitrary when Lebron cost Durant a title with okc and probably without that Durant doesn’t leave okc and break the league with golden state. Punishing lebron for the latter while Not rewarding him for the former seems unfair.

And now that I’ve defended that , I need to go bathe in bleach.

Lebron score nearly as much on fewer attempts. If you add assists, Lebron creates more points per game. Lebron also carried multiple bad teams to the Finals. For all his greatness, Jordan never did that. He never carried a bad team past Boston in the playoffs. Lebron had people thinking mediocre teammates were all-stars getting max contracts.

MJ should be praised for his time playing in DC. A 40 year old isn't supposed to put up those numbers in the League. The man was super human.

Are you going to use beating the Celtics without Kyrie and Hayward as the dragging a team past Boston argument?

 

[Rocktheworld]

MJ stopped players from winning a championship, Lebron didn’t.

Nope, that’s why Paul Pierce doesn’t hate him at all. He also didn’t stop PG3, Derrick Rose, James Harden, Russel Westbrook, Kevin Durant...

You really don’t belong in this discussion.

 

[Beowulf]

i think if MJ was born in 1985 he would be the undisputed best player of all time. it's not his fault he didn't get to play in the best era of basketball. but this era is only good bc of dudes like MJ. and the next era will only be better bc of dudes like lebron. You think these guys are getting worse over time? gimme a break. i love nostalgia and it's not that i don't think guys from older eras can't be better, but as a whole? it's just a different, evolved game, which is why it makes no sense to dwell on mj/lebron when you're only using it to diminish what lebron has accomplished (which is INSANE). the jazz made 13 total threes combined in the 98 finals. it's a different game. i don't think MJ fought to be as good as he was so that a bunch of old dudes stuck in the past could use him as a prop to talk about how good it was "back in their day"

 

[Scoe]

Nope, that’s why Paul Pierce doesn’t hate him at all. He also didn’t stop PG3, Derrick Rose, James Harden, Russel Westbrook, Kevin Durant...

You really don’t belong in this discussion.

How about 2011 would MJ have quit and let the Mavs have a title. That will be used against Lebron in GOAT conversations. That Mavs team wasnt as good as any finals opponent MJ faced, ok ill give them a nod over the 91 Lakers. I also find it hard to believe Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Drexler(aside from his title in 95), Ewing, Reggie would all be ringless if Lebron had to go through fumes to win titles. Lebron couldn't 3 peat on a super team, MJ 3 peated twice.

Well I'm here what are you gonna do about it dance around every fact I come up with.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Well I'm here what are you gonna do about it dance around every fact I come up with.

“Dance around” lmao I’m annihilating your facile points, of which you clearly aren’t thinking much before posting, one at a time.

What I’m gonna do about it is recommend you learn how to argue, get some critical thinking, and come back and see us.

 

[navery12]

“Dance around” lmao I’m annihilating your facile points, of which you clearly aren’t thinking much before posting, one at a time.

What I’m gonna do about it is recommend you learn how to argue, get some critical thinking, and come back and see us.

There's no use even discussing LeBron with this guy after his comments about him earlier in this thread

 

[Scoe]

“Dance around” lmao I’m annihilating your facile points, of which you clearly aren’t thinking much before posting, one at a time.

What I’m gonna do about it is recommend you learn how to argue, get some critical thinking, and come back and see us.

Your still dancing around a post defending dancing around. I dont need to argue btw, your the one who needs to argue because in your opinion you think Lebron is better so no matter what facts anyone presents you are gonna dance around those facts to make your opinions try to look like facts.

 

[Scoe]

i think if MJ was born in 1985 he would be the undisputed best player of all time. it's not his fault he didn't get to play in the best era of basketball. but this era is only good bc of dudes like MJ. and the next era will only be better bc of dudes like lebron. You think these guys are getting worse over time? gimme a break. i love nostalgia and it's not that i don't think guys from older eras can't be better, but as a whole? it's just a different, evolved game, which is why it makes no sense to dwell on mj/lebron when you're only using it to diminish what lebron has accomplished (which is INSANE). the jazz made 13 total threes combined in the 98 finals. it's a different game. i don't think MJ fought to be as good as he was so that a bunch of old dudes stuck in the past could use him as a prop to talk about how good it was "back in their day"

Now that is a very fair assessment. Its kind of like the NFL evolving into a passing league Montana and Elways numbers are far down the list already.

 

[Scoe]

“Dance around” lmao I’m annihilating your facile points, of which you clearly aren’t thinking much before posting, one at a time.

What I’m gonna do about it is recommend you learn how to argue, get some critical thinking, and come back and see us.

Now I'm gonna ask you a simple question has Lebron ever 3 peated.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Now I'm gonna ask you a simple question has Lebron ever 3 peated.

Don’t even bother, Skip.

 

[Scoe]

Don’t even bother, Skip.

You can't even answer the question, case closed.

 

[Rocktheworld]

You can't even answer the question, case closed.

Whatever you say Skip

 

[UofCT]

MJ didn't fail in DC. He averaged 20 points per playing a wing position at the age of 40. That isn't failing.

If you’re the GOAT this is failing. Luckily MJ is not the GOAT so maybe you’re right

 

[Ratso]

doc to the sixers

game changer

 

[Scoe]

Can you guys please start your own thread: "MJ vs LeBron - An endless argument that will change exactly no one's mind ever"
Very disappointed in the Heat's effort last night and if Goran Dragic is injured they are toast. I think it was 40-41 when he left the game. That's sadly been the story of his career so in retrospect was pretty predictable for the finals. Likewise Bam is still a year away when playing against all-star caliber opponents (his leaving the game seemed at least 1/3 mental) and unless Miles Leonard is exhumed with Dave Cowen's brain implanted, the Heat have no chance against AD. The Heat might still win one game, maybe 2 If Dragic can play at all - but I'm struggling to find any reasons to think this is a competitive series this AM.

We could do a what if sports simulation Lebron vs MJ to settle the debate.

 

[UofCT]

MJ stopped players from winning a championship, Lebron didn’t.

Not when he lost 3x in a row to Detroit. Not when he played Magic and Penny in 95. Not when he played on the Wizards.

 

[Scoe]

Kind of arbitrary when Lebron cost Durant a title with okc and probably without that Durant doesn’t leave okc and break the league with golden state. Punishing lebron for the latter while Not rewarding him for the former seems unfair.

And now that I’ve defended that , I need to go bathe in bleach.



Are you going to use beating the Celtics without Kyrie and Hayward as the dragging a team past Boston argument?

Now understand KD was in his first finals appearance at age 23, he didnt have the due factor in his favor, Lebron did in his 3rd finals at the time after being 0-2 in the previous finals, that gives Lebron a huge psychological advantage. MJ stopped guys from winning titles when the due factor were in the favor and it wasnt in MJs favor such as trying to win a 3rd title in a row on fumes vs an opponent that was trying to win his first thats where I'm getting at, they had a psychological advantage being veterans.

 

[superjohn]

The people complaining about Lebron's coaches, that's on him. If you don't think they are any good than Lebron shouldn't have played GM for his whole career.

 

[Scoe]

Not when he lost 3x in a row to Detroit. Not when he played Magic and Penny in 95. Not when he played on the Wizards.

Detroit was at their peak they beat Bird and Magic to win titles, in 95 MJ just came out of retirement and still averaged 30, in 96 you saw what happened the Magic were actually better winning 60 games not enough to the Bulls 72 wins and sweeping Orlando. No one cares about the Wizards besides Kobe and Shaq already won their titles as well as Duncan, guess MJ couldn't stop everybody from winning a title.

Lebron left to join a super team and still couldn't 3 peat, while MJ 3 peated with his original team. Im sorry but leaving to join a super team in your prime won't help you in GOAT debates.