NBA Playoffs 2023

[JohnFSilver]

Nba is unwatchable. I’d literally rather eat glass than watch any nba game.

Weird. What don’t you like about nba game?

Very well played at high levels, and that kings-warriors game 1 was as good an atmosphere as any college game this year.

 

[bballgrda]

Russ 3-19 but made some huge plays down the stretch. Such an enigmatic player.

Maybe the best defensive performance I’ve seen from Westbrook. Kinda looked like AJax out there and reminded me of this clip. Watch until the end.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Absolutely completely 100% different players

 

[Deleted at users request]

Kawhi:

 

[Deleted at users request]

Let him win this series and I’m ready to overreact with the best player in the league dialogue.

He just made Westbrook look like a winning player tonight while having an All Time Westbrick performance.

 

[Matrim55]

Nba is unwatchable. I’d literally rather eat glass than watch any nba game.

It’s incredible to me that people feel this way, especially given we just won our 5th chip playing the most modern, NBA-style scheme on both ends that I’ve ever seen from a college team.

The league today is absolutely incredible — and getting better all the time — and has been for about 15 years. Players 1-through-5 are more skilled, off-ball actions are more complicated, defenses are more clever. It’s the game at its very best.

One thing I think about a lot is how Calhoun understood this 35 years ago, and how he was ahead of his time in understanding pace and space. Our greats from the 80s and 90s (Cliff, Smitty, Burrell, Donyell, Ray, Doron, Travis) would be even better today because the guards could all move, process multiple offensive options, and shoot, and the bigs could all defend in space but protect the rim, too.

Smitty’s the one I think about all the time. If he came into the league now he’d be a 6th man on an elite team instead of a fringe guy who fell out of the league in 3 years. Oh well.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

It’s incredible to me that people feel this way, especially given we just won our 5th chip playing the most modern, NBA-style scheme on both ends that I’ve ever seen from a college team.

The league today is absolutely incredible — and getting better all the time — and has been for about 15 years. Players 1-through-5 are more skilled, off-ball actions are more complicated, defenses are more clever. It’s the game at its very best.

One thing I think about a lot is how Calhoun understood this 35 years ago, and how he was ahead of his time in understanding pace and space. Our greats from the 80s and 90s (Cliff, Smitty, Burrell, Donyell, Ray, Doron, Travis) would be even better today because the guards could all move, process multiple offensive options, and shoot, and the bigs could all defend in space but protect the rim, too.

Smitty’s the one I think about all the time. If he came into the league now he’d be a 6th man on an elite team instead of a fringe guy who fell out of the league in 3 years. Oh well.

It’s just old heads that want 84-80 ugly, overly physical games. The idea that the NBA is unwatchable is so ridiculous. These players absolutely wipe the floor, skill wise, to any past generation.

 

[Lefty2one]

How the game is officiated today is a serious beef I can get behind. Every NBA fan has thrown up their hands in frustration at one point or another with the blatant favoritism afforded to offensive players. It's already so hard to defend today given how spaced the floor is, now on top of that offensive players can jump sideways into defenders who are in legal guarding position and earn a whistle. Flagrant fouls are also a joke these days.

Not to mention the long-standing issues of ignoring constant traveling via dragging or changing a pivot foot, moving screens galore, carrying, etc. Obviously offense drives ratings, especially for casual fans, but the league has gone too far.

I loved the skilled nature of today's game but like many others I want the officiating to come back towards center.

 

[kobebeanbryant]

It’s just old heads that want 84-80 ugly, overly physical games. The idea that the NBA is unwatchable is so ridiculous. These players absolutely wipe the floor, skill wise, to any past generation.

Nobody is allowed to have a difference of opinion…if they do we should look down upon them.

I still enjoy the NBA, but can understand why some may prefer the college game. Individual player skill level isn’t the only reason why people watch sports…

For whatever reason there is a holier than thou attitude that some modern NBA fans have, and they tend to take it very personally if others don’t also like the modern game.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

It’s just old heads that want 84-80 ugly, overly physical games. The idea that the NBA is unwatchable is so ridiculous. These players absolutely wipe the floor, skill wise, to any past generation.

These people should watch an 80's regular season game on youtube or NBATV if they want to see what it was really like rather than the nostalgia. Dominique Wilkins would literally walk back up the court on defense if he didn't get the ball on offense when he was calling for it. The Doug Moe/Kiki Vandeweghe/Dan Issel/Alex English Nuggets were one of the best teams in the West in the 80's and literally (using that term correctly) played no defense that I could identify. Bernard King was fun to watch, but he also played no defense at all.

Also, while I couldn't see it then, rewatching some of these games, I can tell that a lot of the players in the early and mid 80's were high on the court.

I will disagree with you on one thing. A lot of the stars from the 80's like Wilkins, Bird, Worthy, Erving, McHale, Vandeweghe, Olajuwon, Robinson, Moncrief, and others would still be great players today. Magic was so unique that I am sure he would still be a great player today, but I am not sure he would be as dominant. The problem with the NBA back then was the depth, especially with the late 80's expansion of the NBA. The talent pool was not expanding fast enough to catch up with the expansion of the NBA, and I think that is a big reason why Jordan won 6 titles in the 90's.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Nobody is allowed to have a difference of opinion…if they do we should look down upon them.

I still enjoy the NBA, but can understand why some may prefer the college game. Individual player skill level isn’t the only reason why people watch sports…

For whatever reason there is a holier than thou attitude that some modern NBA fans have, and they tend to take it very personally if others don’t also like the modern game.

Yes but unwatchable is ridiculous and it’s so obvious to what people mean by that. Would you really rather watch a guy like Russell shoot 42% from the field as a center? Or bash ball like the 80’s and 90’s were played?

And skill level should account for a huge chunk of watchability. The ball movement, shooting, finishing and isolation play is miles ahead of the past.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

These people should watch an 80's regular season game on youtube or NBATV if they want to see what it was really like rather than the nostalgia. Dominique Wilkins would literally walk back up the court on defense if he didn't get the ball on offense when he was calling for it. The Doug Moe/Kiki Vandeweghe/Dan Issel/Alex English Nuggets were one of the best teams in the West in the 80's and literally (using that term correctly) played no defense that I could identify. Bernard King was fun to watch, but he also played no defense at all.

Also, while I couldn't see it then, rewatching some of these games, I can tell that a lot of the players in the early and mid 80's were high on the court.

I will disagree with you on one thing. A lot of the stars from the 80's like Wilkins, Bird, Worthy, Erving, McHale, Vandeweghe, Olajuwon, Robinson, Moncrief, and others would still be great players today. Magic was so unique that I am sure he would still be a great player today, but I am not sure he would be as dominant. The problem with the NBA back then was the depth, especially with the late 80's expansion of the NBA. The talent pool was not expanding fast enough to catch up with the expansion of the NBA, and I think that is a big reason why Jordan won 6 titles in the 90's.

I agree they would be great. What I meant to say I guess was mid level players today would be stars back then. The athleticism, creativity and speed by the average NBA player today is incredible.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

For whatever reason there is a holier than thou attitude that some modern NBA fans have, and they tend to take it very personally if others don’t also like the modern game.

Are you kidding? The holier than thou attitude comes from the other direction. This was intended to be for people to talk about the playoffs, not for the same guy who made the worst post in the history of this board calling for Hurley to be fired during the Iona game to brag about how much he hates the NBA. But if it was going to be anyone it’s pretty obvious it was going to be him.

It’s literally impossible on this board to have an NBA thread for people who like the NBA without this happening, and you blame the people who actually want to talk about the games.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I agree they would be great. What I meant to say I guess was mid level players today would be stars back then. The athleticism, creativity and speed by the average NBA player today is incredible.

I suspect part of it is that the shot making is just so good that people think it looks too easy.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I agree they would be great. What I meant to say I guess was mid level players today would be stars back then. The athleticism, creativity and speed by the average NBA player today is incredible.

The average coaching through high school is light years ahead of where it was in the 70's and 80's, which results in a better college product, and pushes the stars to be even better rather than just rely on athleticism. All of that, plus an influx of Europeans, results in a really good NBA today.

I also think getting rid of the Illegal Defense rules made the NBA so much more fun to watch. Those rules were so stupid.

 

[superjohn]

It’s just old heads that want 84-80 ugly, overly physical games. The idea that the NBA is unwatchable is so ridiculous. These players absolutely wipe the floor, skill wise, to any past generation.

The "NBA sucks" crowd has always sucked but they don't wipe the floor skillwise with any other generation, there's just an emphasis on different things now. Sure, I would imagine when Russell played and some players had second jobs it was a whole different deal but since I've been watching it's just a very different style of play with a different emphasis on things.

If allowed the freedom of movement and green light to jack it up from anywhere on the court in the past you would see the same results. Players play to how the game is tailored and teams design the way they play around what other teams are doing, it's a copycat league. The guys like Edey, Cockburn, and Sanogo are largely phased out of today's game in favor of the guys like Brandon Ingram and Chet Holmgren.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

The "NBA sucks" crowd has always sucked but they don't wipe the floor skillwise with any other generation, there's just an emphasis on different things now. Sure, I would imagine when Russell played and some players had second jobs it was a whole different deal but since I've been watching it's just a very different style of play with a different emphasis on things.

If allowed the freedom of movement and green light to jack it up from anywhere on the court in the past you would see the same results. Players play to how the game is tailored and teams design the way they play around what other teams are doing, it's a copycat league. The guys like Edey, Cockburn, and Sanogo are largely phased out of today's game in favor of the guys like Brandon Ingram and Chet Holmgren.

I disagree. The shooting is better, the quickness and quick-twitch ability is higher, ballhandling is miles better. Players are way more versatile too because they have to be. There are obviously outliers from previous eras, but it’s so much more deep and refined now, in my opinion.

 

[superjohn]

I disagree. The shooting is better, the quickness and quick-twitch ability is higher, ballhandling is miles better. Players are way more versatile too because they have to be. There are obviously outliers from previous eras, but it’s so much more deep and refined now, in my opinion.

The shooting is better because that's the focus, big men have a tough time making it today if they don't really stretch the floor. There's always been great shooters but the three pointer was hardly a focus in the league. The league was way more about post play and attacking the rim, way more people were dunking on each other in the 90's. Finishing through contact is a skill it's just not really much a part of the game anymore.

I don't believe guys are quicker, stronger, jump higher now. It's just a very different style of play.

 

[Deleted at users request]

I disagree. The shooting is better, the quickness and quick-twitch ability is higher, ballhandling is miles better. Players are way more versatile too because they have to be. There are obviously outliers from previous eras, but it’s so much more deep and refined now, in my opinion.

I don’t think the talent is much different from the 2000s era to now outside of guys just shooting the ball more. 80s and 90s though? Yeah probably.

Wings wasn’t a really deep position until after Jordan. Only difference in todays game is stretch 4s and guys having the green light to shoot more, but would guys like Webber, KG, Sheed, etc not adjust to todays game to be one of the best 4s in the league? Hell Dirk would fit PERFECTLY in today’s game.

IMO there’s no touching the perimeter players and Power Forwards from the early 2000s still.

 

[aceboon]

The "NBA sucks" crowd has always sucked but they don't wipe the floor skillwise with any other generation, there's just an emphasis on different things now. Sure, I would imagine when Russell played and some players had second jobs it was a whole different deal but since I've been watching it's just a very different style of play with a different emphasis on things.

If allowed the freedom of movement and green light to jack it up from anywhere on the court in the past you would see the same results. Players play to how the game is tailored and teams design the way they play around what other teams are doing, it's a copycat league. The guys like Edey, Cockburn, and Sanogo are largely phased out of today's game in favor of the guys like Brandon Ingram and Chet Holmgren.

Brandon Ingram is a 6'8" wing who's game is actually modeled(not saying he's as good) off the MJ/prototype, not sure why he's being referenced here.

 

[aceboon]

love it, get it to the midrange and just fry dudes

 

[CardiacAndre7]

The shooting is better because that's the focus, big men have a tough time making it today if they don't really stretch the floor. There's always been great shooters but the three pointer was hardly a focus in the league. The league was way more about post play and attacking the rim, way more people were dunking on each other in the 90's. Finishing through contact is a skill it's just not really much a part of the game anymore.

I don't believe guys are quicker, stronger, jump higher now. It's just a very different style of play.

I don’t think saying it’s the focus detracts from my statement. They are developed from a young age to have that versatility in their game. Just because the guys back then didn’t have to do it doesn’t mean they could have. Bigs were way more plodding. I mean, Plumlee was running the point at times last night for the Clippers, and no one think of him as some crazy hybrid big. That’s just training and development.

Players are 100% quicker if anything though, and way more creative in getting to their spots.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I don’t think the talent is much different from the 2000s era to now outside of guys just shooting the ball more. 80s and 90s though? Yeah probably.

Wings wasn’t a really deep position until after Jordan. Only difference in todays game is stretch 4s and guys having the green light to shoot more, but would guys like Webber, KG, Sheed, etc not adjust to todays game to be one of the best 4s in the league? Hell Dirk would fit PERFECTLY in today’s game.

IMO there’s no touching the perimeter players and Power Forwards from the early 2000s still.

Half the guys you mentioned retired in the last 10 years. They played a good amount of the modern game.

 

[aceboon]

I don’t think saying it’s the focus detracts from my statement. They are developed from a young age to have that versatility in their game. Just because the guys back then didn’t have to do it doesn’t mean they could have. Bigs were way more plodding. I mean, Plumlee was running the point at times last night for the Clippers, and no one think of him as some crazy hybrid big. That’s just training and development.

Players are 100% quicker if anything though, and way more creative in getting to their spots.

Plumlee can dribble and pass but also can't go to work in the post or hit midrange jumpers at an efficient clip like 80s/90s bigs, which would you rather have? Plumlee is just "a guy" now and would be the same in those eras too.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Half the guys you mentioned retired in the last 10 years. They played a good amount of the modern game.

I guess it just depends on when you think it starts. I was thinking of when the Steph Curry era began and they were well past their prime and on the way out for that.

 

[UConn990411]

Nobody is allowed to have a difference of opinion…if they do we should look down upon them.

I still enjoy the NBA, but can understand why some may prefer the college game. Individual player skill level isn’t the only reason why people watch sports…

For whatever reason there is a holier than thou attitude that some modern NBA fans have, and they tend to take it very personally if others don’t also like the modern game.

I can understand people not liking the NBA.

I don’t understand those people opening a thread titled “NBA Playoffs 2023” and feeling the need to post in it.

 

[superjohn]

I don’t think saying it’s the focus detracts from my statement. They are developed from a young age to have that versatility in their game. Just because the guys back then didn’t have to do it doesn’t mean they could have. Bigs were way more plodding. I mean, Plumlee was running the point at times last night for the Clippers, and no one think of him as some crazy hybrid big. That’s just training and development.

Players are 100% quicker if anything though, and way more creative in getting to their spots.

That's where we disagree. They could have it's just not the focus. Just like guys today could have much more refined post games like guys of the past but they don't because it's not the focus.

Same thing goes for guys in MLB, they would be able to hit it to the open part of the field and be able to bunt like guys used to if it was the focus.

 

[Jaydumo20]

It’s incredible to me that people feel this way, especially given we just won our 5th chip playing the most modern, NBA-style scheme on both ends that I’ve ever seen from a college team.

The league today is absolutely incredible — and getting better all the time — and has been for about 15 years. Players 1-through-5 are more skilled, off-ball actions are more complicated, defenses are more clever. It’s the game at its very best.

One thing I think about a lot is how Calhoun understood this 35 years ago, and how he was ahead of his time in understanding pace and space. Our greats from the 80s and 90s (Cliff, Smitty, Burrell, Donyell, Ray, Doron, Travis) would be even better today because the guards could all move, process multiple offensive options, and shoot, and the bigs could all defend in space but protect the rim, too.

Smitty’s the one I think about all the time. If he came into the league now he’d be a 6th man on an elite team instead of a fringe guy who fell out of the league in 3 years. Oh well.

I used to be in the NBA is unwatchable camp, but I just reinforced that nonsense by not watching. Self fulfilling.
To all the NBA haters (I was one) watch these playoffs with an open mind. Hard not to like...plus its filled with absolute legends and the best rising stars.

 

[Yanksrock615]

The shooting is better because that's the focus, big men have a tough time making it today if they don't really stretch the floor. There's always been great shooters but the three pointer was hardly a focus in the league. The league was way more about post play and attacking the rim, way more people were dunking on each other in the 90's. Finishing through contact is a skill it's just not really much a part of the game anymore.

I don't believe guys are quicker, stronger, jump higher now. It's just a very different style of play.

Modern training and medicine exist. Of course the guys are quicker, stronger and faster.

Finishing through contact is still very important. The most valuable shot in basketball are layups and dunks. Shots at the rim are what open up 3 point shooting. Defenses #1 priority is still to defend the rim.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Plumlee can dribble and pass but also can't go to work in the post or hit midrange jumpers at an efficient clip like 80s/90s bigs, which would you rather have? Plumlee is just "a guy" now and would be the same in those eras too.

That was just a name I threw out to prove something of a point. Centers in the earlier days, especially career backups, were not initiating offense as much as they do today.