OT: Napheesa has her say on WNBA leadership

[Sifaka]

Technically, she was not “renominated” by the partners for a 2nd term…… 😉

Po TAY toe Po TAH to.
You are, of course, correct, technically speaking.
For those of us who toiled in corporate America,
colloquially speaking she was s..tcanned.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

The WNBA is a clown car. But the players don't come off clean. There are far too many players who let's call it misbehave, and flex about it. The treatment of Clark is a near universal disgrace.

 

[darrell]

Good for you Phee, saying what many are thinking but afraid to say, and shoutout to her colleagues and league media members showing her support.

I know her family is extremely proud of her.

 

[oldude]

Good for you Phee, saying what many are thinking but afraid to say, and shoutout to her colleagues and league media members showing her support.

I know her family is extremely proud of her.

I had forgotten about Pheesa’s grandfather. Pheesa’s fight for independence is not quite as noteworthy as Gramp’s, but it does appear to run in her blood.

 

[Geew1992]

Englebert's response was pretty weak-kneed, in sharp contrast to Napheesa's passionate and powerful statement.

So Phee has now painted Engelbert into a corner. She has thrown her under the proverbial bus for all to see and has basically dared Engelbert to fine her.

If Engelbert lets it slide, as I think she will, she will be hard pressed to fine others who will inevitably come out of the woodwork throwing haymakers at her.

If she does impose a fine or other penalty on Phee, she will look very petty and vindictive. No win situation.

Well played, Phee!

Englebert also did't deny or say it was taken out of context. Phee dropped a bomb and Englebert let it explode

 

[Rowdy831]

Napheesa Collier doesn't need the WNBA, but the WBNA certainly needs Napheesa Collier. I'll bet that Geno is very proud of Phee was standing up and fighting for what is needed in and around the WNBA

If I was running the W no player would be able to play in a competing league if salaries were at a higher level. Phee was right but where was she last year when CC was getting mugged every night? Secondly I understand why she vented and don't disagree with her points but airing what her and CE discussed about CC was not hers to air.

 

[PacoSwede]

let's assume engelbert sees her positions/actions/non-actions as representative of her bosses' desires.

they are the source of the players' problems. axing her wouldn't address the core issues. those with the power could take up the workers' concerns. but that would require giving up some power. oh horrors! owners in general are terrified by that idea.

a scapegoat, say the commissioners' scalp, could calm the upstarts. it's easier than giving in on core issues, like changing the terrible style of basketball being promoted by refs (mere underlings who are also pawns simply doing what the bosses want -- and more potential sacrificial lambs to insulate the true powers).

players and their sympathizers should focus on the real problem facing them.

power. held by the powerful. it's true for most of us, and too easy to accept rather than address.

 

[Dogdude]

If the players are truly united, and there's no reason to think that they aren't, they are in the driver's seat. You have a commissioner who is essentially a lame duck at this point, with no credibility, and an owners bloc that still doesn't get that when you take on angry women, it's not like any other adversary. I still believe that the WNBA is still not established enough to withstand a strong challenge from a rival league. Oh, wait, there is one, and Unrivaled could certainly expand if negotiations go south. I doubt highly that that's where the players want to go, but lack of money plus lack of respect equals a nonexistent workforce.

 

[EricLA]

Sue and Ryan Ruocco weigh in. Intelligent breakdown. Sue "as an owner can't say much", but Ryan does.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Sue and Ryan Ruocco weigh in. Intelligent breakdown. Sue "as an owner can't say much", but Ryan does.

Ryan and Sue are two of the most intelligent and articulate observers of the sport.

 

[WiseWillie]

Sue and Ryan Ruocco weigh in. Intelligent breakdown. Sue "as an owner can't say much", but Ryan does.

Ryan's comments are very insightful. He's seen the game evolve up close for years on the sidelines. He's heard and is very aware of the issues. His comment that as a first step an acknowledgment by the W that there are problems would certainly help. The next step imo would be to define them and for a meeting with player representatives to discuss potential solutions in an open format. Good luck with that.

Guess we need to stay tuned because to use the common tennis idiom, the ball is now in the W's court.

 

[DEpup]

He got it right! Start with mandating freedom of movement and then things will ripple from there.

I'll say it again, every team knows if they are trailing at the beginning of the 4th, they can turn it into a wrestling match and probably win.....

 

[oldude]

An easy start is for the WNBA to adopt the prohibition on hand checking that has been in place in the NBA since the 2004-05 season. The WNBA’s rules on hand checking are watered down at best, permitting a far greater level of physically restrictive defense then in the men’s game.

 

[Cuango]

Wilson's comments after last night's game after she had a chance to hear Collier's statement.

Not sure what she could say that would have much relevance. The Aces are certainly one of, if not the worst offenders in terms of waaay too physical play. They also not surprisingly, seem to be among the least penalized for obvious, egregious fouls. I say not surprisingly at least partially because of their obvious preferential treatment not only by the refs but by the league itself, which has allowed a $100,000 stipend to be paid to each Ace’s player from the LV chamber of Commerce for at least the last two seasons. If ever there were a more obvious breaking of the rule against teams supplying extra benefits over and above the salary cap, I’m sure I’ve never heard of it.

I suppose my bias is showing here but I have rarely been more disappointed over the result of an award vote than the one that (in my view) took the MVP vote away from Phee and instead gave it to Wilson. I will admit that the vote should have been very close, and even that Wilson might actually have won. However, imo, the tally should at the very least have been close. Just a shame (though there is no denying her dominance in the game) that the best player in the league should be so unlikeable.

 

[Cuango]

What are the chances (and legalities) that in the event of a lockout/walkout) by the W, that Unrivaled could switch to 5x5 for next season? Could the W, or more likely the NBA stop them from doing that? Could/Would that, if successful, result in the death of the W? I suppose much would depend on financial backing but Unrivaled did not seem to have much trouble raising money last year for what were very high salaries compared to what the W was paying at the time.

 

[Dogdude]

What are the chances (and legalities) that in the event of a lockout/walkout) by the W, that Unrivaled could switch to 5x5 for next season? Could the W, or more likely the NBA stop them from doing that? Could/Would that, if successful, result in the death of the W? I suppose much would depend on financial backing but Unrivaled did not seem to have much trouble raising money last year for what were very high salaries compared to what the W was paying at the time.

I don't see how they could stop it. They have no ownership or management position. Can McDonalds tell Burger King to stop selling Whoppers? Competition is just that, two rivals with similar products battling for the same customers. It's what free enterprise is all about. It's food, cars, tv networks, and so on. Customers make their choice and pay their money to buy, and anything prohibiting them from being able to do so is restraint of trade. Again, I doubt Unrivaled will go that route as their intent all along was never to compete with the WNBA, but to complement it. Then again, things change....

 

[Basingstoke]

Not sure what she could say that would have much relevance. The Aces are certainly one of, if not the worst offenders in terms of waaay too physical play. They also not surprisingly, seem to be among the least penalized for obvious, egregious fouls. I say not surprisingly at least partially because of their obvious preferential treatment not only by the refs but by the league itself, which has allowed a $100,000 stipend to be paid to each Ace’s player from the LV chamber of Commerce for at least the last two seasons. If ever there were a more obvious breaking of the rule against teams supplying extra benefits over and above the salary cap, I’m sure I’ve never heard of it.

I suppose my bias is showing here but I have rarely been more disappointed over the result of an award vote than the one that (in my view) took the MVP vote away from Phee and instead gave it to Wilson. I will admit that the vote should have been very close, and even that Wilson might actually have won. However, imo, the tally should at the very least have been close. Just a shame (though there is no denying her dominance in the game) that the best player in the league should be so unlikeable.

Sorry, my vote for most egregious physicality goes to the Mercury.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Sorry, my vote for most egregious physicality goes to the Mercury.

Well for a decade it was Connecticut, and now AT goes to the Mercury and it seemed to follow her. That's probably ground zero with correcting the officiating in the WNBA--start calling all the obvious fouls on AT.

 

[Sifaka]

Oh my!

Hope Engelbert is hiding under her desk….😉

 

[cancontent]

Not sure what she could say that would have much relevance. The Aces are certainly one of, if not the worst offenders in terms of waaay too physical play. They also not surprisingly, seem to be among the least penalized for obvious, egregious fouls. I say not surprisingly at least partially because of their obvious preferential treatment not only by the refs but by the league itself, which has allowed a $100,000 stipend to be paid to each Ace’s player from the LV chamber of Commerce for at least the last two seasons. If ever there were a more obvious breaking of the rule against teams supplying extra benefits over and above the salary cap, I’m sure I’ve never heard of it.

I suppose my bias is showing here but I have rarely been more disappointed over the result of an award vote than the one that (in my view) took the MVP vote away from Phee and instead gave it to Wilson. I will admit that the vote should have been very close, and even that Wilson might actually have won. However, imo, the tally should at the very least have been close. Just a shame (though there is no denying her dominance in the game) that the best player in the league should be so unlikeable.

First, Collier's comments didn't only touch on physicality, but on how the commissioner is being dismissive of the WNBPA's concern. That affects everyone, regardless who the player is. Second, Wilson is affected by the physicality just as much as everyone else. She gets her fair share of being held, as Peck showed during the pre-game coverage before Game 4.

It's unfortunate your bias won't let you see beyond the fact that Wilson willingly supported Collier publicly to the media. She could have given some waffling statement when asked, like some sports stars do to "stay out of it", or posted a two sentence tweet which most would forget. Wilson's support carries weight and her words being on the record continues to put the onus on the commissioner.

 

[DRBackup]

player endorsements (let's be clear - many of these had NOTHING to do with being in the WNBA

Yes, they do. The players you mention were playing college basketball when they got those endorsements. If you're not playing - IE the WNBA doesn't exist - you're not getting endorsements, either. Their alternative would be playing overseas and with nobody in the markets for the ads, there are no endorsements.

 

[DRBackup]

saw on the other board that the "NBA would never allow a competing women's basketball league". OK NBA - then step up and pressure the WNBA to get off their collective asses and do right by the players.

And the NBA won't allow a rival league because they're subsidizing the WNBA.

I honestly fail to understand how people think cancelling an entire season in a league that cannot turn a profit isn't the END of that league.

MLB is infinitely more popular than the WNBA and it took YEARS for them to recover from cancelling the end of the season in 1994.

 

[DRBackup]

So who exactly is Englebert's boss? If it is the team owners, then the pressure is now on them. Yes of course they are mostly concerned with their profits...

Profits that they're not making, you mean.

 

[cancontent]

Profits that they're not making, you mean.

Yet. Businesses are seeing the WNBA differently and if they didn't see the potential, the league wouldn't have earned a $1.1B media deal. Not to mention, team valuations, like the Liberty's, have jumped significantly recently. Companies wouldn't be investing if they didn't see the potential.

 

[Sifaka]

Profits that they're not making, you mean.

The teams are privately owned and do not release financial statements, audited or otherwise. Nobody on this board knows whether any given WNBA team has earned a profit. Asset valuations have increased dramatically. Hence owners can cash out at a substantial profit should they choose to, or maintain their equity positions if they foresee an attractive profit stream, further equity appreciation, or both.