OT: - Napheesa has her say on WNBA leadership | Page 4 | The Boneyard
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OT: Napheesa has her say on WNBA leadership

oldude said:
This morning I watched excerpts from Engelbert’s press conference yesterday where she gave a series of what I would refer to as “non-answer, answers” to questions from ESPN’s Malika Andrews. Subsequently, the ESPN panel doing the first game between the Mercury & the Aces called out Engelbert for her non-answers to direct questions. Engelbert also interjected comments about how she is, “ a human being” and how attacks on her were hurtful to her daughters.

Give me a xxxxing break!!! Playing the sympathy card is ridiculous and only causes me to lose what little respect I might have had left for Engelbert.

A dynamic that many career women understand is that all too frequently, the support they would hope for from other career women is woefully lacking. Engelbert made it to the pinnacle of her profession as the CEO of Deloitte and now the Commissioner of the W. Somewhere along the way she became insensitive to the challenges of other professional women.
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AKA Adam Silver's administrative assistant. It's not easy doing these impromptu interviews while she's still waiting for him to tell her what she can and can't say.
 
BobbyJ said:
AKA Adam Silver's administrative assistant. It's not easy doing these impromptu interviews while she's still waiting for him to tell her what she can and can't say.
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Maybe so. But I don’t ever remember Adam Silver being so clumsy and inept in front of the press. Perhaps he needs to hire a new administrative assistant.
 
I just watched Engelbert's pitiful attempt to be empathetic with players, or to at least appear to be empathetic. If I were grading her in a communications class, she would have earned a “D”.

Why not a failing grade? Because she at least acknowledged that there are problems needing attention.
But then she went all corporate and palmed solution hunting off on a pair of committees. She's the friggin CEO! Solutions are her responsibility. If she wants committees to offer advice, very well. But Phee called for accountability, and the best Engelbert could do was a meally-mouthed “I care….” and tossed the problem into someone else's lap.

It is painful to listen to such eloquent, meaningless, pablum. But she does a fair job of EMOTING!!!



 
This is just getting crazy...

Sources: Napheesa Collier cancels meeting with Cathy Engelbert

I just don't see how Engelbert is still employed. Basically calls Phee a liar.

Engelbert on Friday vehemently denied saying that Caitlin Clark and other standouts "should be on their knees" in gratitude because of the platform the league has given them, as Collier claimed.

"I did not make those comments," Engelbert said at her annual news conference ahead of Game 1 of the WNBA Finals.

Phee took a chance in quoting Cathy directly in her presser - knowing that Cathy had probably 2 possible paths - deny and call Phee a liar, or acknowledge her comments and resign. She chose the former. I'm surprised the owners are standing by Engelbert at this point.

I believe Phee and I'm betting 100% of the players feel the same way. For them to sit across from Cathy and try to negotiate a contract with what has gone down is impossible to imagine.
 
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When the players condemn the league and the refs for engendering unnecessary violence in the league I see tremendous hypocrisy and worst over CC. But it is clear that Cathy is a brittle, incompetent Commish.
 
Best part of this thread is that we haven't once worried about who is starting. Anyway, I'm rooting for Unrivaled to grow quickly, and outshine the W. I would love to know the number of players who would jump leagues if Unrivaled were to play in the summer as well...
 
Sifaka said:
We have a winnnnnuh!

Best typo of the month, lay—deeeees anna gennnullmin.


(I wonder if she was thinking of Steven A. Smith? 😇
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Take A Bow Thank You GIF by Iliza Shlesinger


A genuine oversight and reminder to always check if predictive typing has their own interpretation of what you're typing.

Nice touch with the Stephen A reference. 😂
 
www.newyorker.com

The Fight for the Future of Women’s Basketball

The W.N.B.A. star Napheesa Collier’s blistering critique of the league has brought it to a turning point.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com

The New Yorker's take on Phee and Englebert. Unsurprisingly, it's sharp, incisive, and witty:

"Respect in men’s leagues, historically, has come in the form of ever-rising salaries. But, for many years, the W.N.B.A. had to operate differently, mainly because the money wasn’t there. But that gave the players an opportunity to figure out an alternative approach. At one point, Collier described leadership as “the human element.” She seems like proof of that herself."
 
There is yet another question hanging in the air, ready to explode in this battle between the players and the league following Pheesa’s initial broadside directed at the commissioner, Engelbert danced around whether or not she said what Pheesa said she said during their conversation at the allstar game.

Nothing is more damning relative to Engelbert’s leadership than the allegations of her being dismissive and disrespectful to CC and the rest of the players relative to compensation and officiating. Subsequently, Engelbert came out to clearly deny Pheesa’s comments.

We are now advised that Pheesa has cancelled a scheduled meeting with Engelbert. Given her most recent comments, the inevitable question that Engelbert will have to answer will be, “Are you calling Napheesa Collier a liar?” There is no good answer to that question. Either Pheesa is lying or Engelbert is lying, and unfortunately for Engelbert, Pheesa has earned the benefit of the doubt from the media, players and fans.
 
oldude said:
There is yet another question hanging in the air, ready to explode in this battle between the players and the league following Pheesa’s initial broadside directed at the commissioner, Engelbert danced around whether or not she said what Pheesa said she said during their conversation at the allstar game.

Nothing is more damning relative to Engelbert’s leadership than the allegations of her being dismissive and disrespectful to CC and the rest of the players relative to compensation and officiating. Subsequently, Engelbert came out to clearly deny Pheesa’s comments.

We are now advised that Pheesa has cancelled a scheduled meeting with Engelbert. Given her most recent comments, the inevitable question that Engelbert will have to answer will be, “Are you calling Napheesa Collier a liar?” There is no good answer to that question. Either Pheesa is lying or Engelbert is lying, and unfortunately for Engelbert, Pheesa has earned the benefit of the doubt from the media, players and fans.
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Napheesa Collier, Cathy Engelbert and a WNBA teetering on the brink - ESPN

It was Engelbert who called a meeting at Unrivaled and that she asked Napheesa and her husband (Unrivaled president) to attend.

Apparently, Napheesa also contemporaneously told other people.
  • Florida is a two-party consent to record state.
  • But most arguably, motive has not arisen that will weaken contemporaneous confidant witness testimony if it comes to that.
  • Engelbert and her bosses are then left to face, effectively, a vote of no confidence in the league’s representation in the CBA negotiations.
As to the state of CBA negotiations, Breanna said during the All-Star game that only two of Engelbert’s articles were somewhat acceptable. There are 30+? articles in the CBA.
 
oldude said:
There is yet another question hanging in the air, ready to explode in this battle between the players and the league following Pheesa’s initial broadside directed at the commissioner, Engelbert danced around whether or not she said what Pheesa said she said during their conversation at the allstar game.

Nothing is more damning relative to Engelbert’s leadership than the allegations of her being dismissive and disrespectful to CC and the rest of the players relative to compensation and officiating. Subsequently, Engelbert came out to clearly deny Pheesa’s comments.

We are now advised that Pheesa has cancelled a scheduled meeting with Engelbert. Given her most recent comments, the inevitable question that Engelbert will have to answer will be, “Are you calling Napheesa Collier a liar?” There is no good answer to that question. Either Pheesa is lying or Engelbert is lying, and unfortunately for Engelbert, Pheesa has earned the benefit of the doubt from the media, players and fans.
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I agree there is no good answer, but . . . given the evasive nature of much of Engelbert's recent "response" to Pheesa's statement, there are many (non-) answers that she can give. "We remember the conversation differently." "I don't think she's deliberately lying." And so on.

It reminds me of something Yogi Berra said to Joe Garagiola early on in his tenure as Yankees' manager. Joe asked him how working with George Steinbrenner was. Yogi replied, "It's okay. Me and George, we just agree different."
 
Another element of this matter is that to date, Engelbert has largely been a solitary figure representing the W in discussions with the players and updates with the media. Where in the hell are Adam Silver and the owners? In just about every other labor dispute involving a professional sports league, invariably there is an ownership committee, made up of respected long-time owners, who are empowered by all the other owners to negotiate on their behalf. The NFL comes to mind where Art Rooney of the Steelers and Wellington Mara of the Giants were both involved in one such labor dispute.

Engelbert appears to be out there twisting in the wind, all by herself. It just may be possible that she has been ordered not to negotiate any substantive agreement at present, thereby forcing the league to shut down. While the owners may well be setting up Engelbert to be “the fall guy” in all of this, that still doesn’t get her much sympathy from me or most WBB fans. Her “ham-handed” way of dealing with all of this has pissed off everybody.
 
oldude said:
Another element of this matter is that to date, Engelbert has largely been a solitary figure representing the W in discussions with the players and updates with the media. Where in the hell are Adam Silver and the owners? In just about every other labor dispute involving a professional sports league, invariably there is an ownership committee, made up of respected long-time owners, who are empowered by all the other owners to negotiate on their behalf. The NFL comes to mind where Art Rooney of the Steelers and Wellington Mara of the Giants were both involved in one such labor dispute.

Engelbert appears to be out there twisting in the wind, all by herself. It just may be possible that she has been ordered not to negotiate any substantive agreement at present, thereby forcing the league to shut down. While the owners may well be setting up Engelbert to be “the fall guy” in all of this, that still doesn’t get her much sympathy from me or most WBB fans. Her “ham-handed” way of dealing with all of this has pissed off everybody.
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apnews.com

Silver says WNBA deal will get done, but relationship issues with the players must be repaired

NBA Commissioner Adam Silver says a new collective bargaining agreement with WNBA players will be reached, but acknowledged relationship issues that must be repaired following recent criticisms of Commissioner Cathy Engelbert.
apnews.com apnews.com

His ears must have been burning. 😉
 
cancontent said:
apnews.com

Silver says WNBA deal will get done, but relationship issues with the players must be repaired

NBA Commissioner Adam Silver says a new collective bargaining agreement with WNBA players will be reached, but acknowledged relationship issues that must be repaired following recent criticisms of Commissioner Cathy Engelbert.
apnews.com apnews.com

His ears must have been burning. 😉
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The acknowledgment by Silver that “relationship issues must be repaired” is a mouthful and a half, that may just point to Engelbert’s eventual departure. Time will tell.
 
Something to keep in mind is that it’s not the players vs the team owners, like most leagues. It’s the players vs the team owners, the NBA and the 3rd party investors. I’m sure that triad has some major alignment issues as to what each wants out of all this.

I would bet if it was just players vs teams the negotiations would be much easier for everyone.
 
In the end, it's always the players vs. the owners. They have the dough, and all the other people involved are just conduits for the negotiations. All the talking heads right now are making this more complicated than necessary. But the owners better start talking, as these negotiations have a wild card that complicates things, and that's the fans, who are seemingly hard on the side of the players, and they're not afraid to walk to either Unrivaled or their favorite college teams. They can't wait too long, or things get tougher. If I'm an owner, I'd start pushing to dump Englebert right now and get started by giving the players both more dough and superior officiating right off the bat, and then start niggling on the details. But they should be starting with a pretty grand gesture quickly, as the college season and Unrivaled are starting up, and we won't miss that odd WWE-ball that for some reason the league is passing off as basketball.
 
Dogdude said:
In the end, it's always the players vs. the owners. They have the dough, and all the other people involved are just conduits for the negotiations. All the talking heads right now are making this more complicated than necessary. But the owners better start talking, as these negotiations have a wild card that complicates things, and that's the fans, who are seemingly hard on the side of the players, and they're not afraid to walk to either Unrivaled or their favorite college teams. They can't wait too long, or things get tougher. If I'm an owner, I'd start pushing to dump Englebert right now and get started by giving the players both more dough and superior officiating right off the bat, and then start niggling on the details. But they should be starting with a pretty grand gesture quickly, as the college season and Unrivaled are starting up, and we won't miss that odd WWE-ball that for some reason the league is passing off as basketball.
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The players vs which owners? Team owners? Investor owners? NBA owners? I guaranty you those three have totally different goals here.

This is what the future will look like if/when PE ever gets involved with college sports. Too many agendas.
 
Sifaka said:
We have a winnnnnuh!

Best typo of the month, lay—deeeees anna gennnullmin.


(I wonder if she was thinking of Steven A. Smith? 😇
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Not bad. I still like "we do not consider ourselves the defending chimps."
 
NoSpamHere said:
The players vs which owners? Team owners? Investor owners? NBA owners? I guaranty you those three have totally different goals here.

This is what the future will look like if/when PE ever gets involved with college sports. Too many agendas.
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I think it's less complicated than that. Anyone involved in ownership has one goal: make money. There's the pride of owning a team, sure, but it better either make money or be a brilliant tax write-off. As for the various people involved, if you look at the term "owners" and understand that it might be an individual or a group (like the Sun) they're basically one unit per team. The umbrella organization, the WNBA or the NBA, exists at the whim of the owners as a group. It exists to keep some sort of order so that a few renegade owners don't screw things up for the rest of the club. Overspending on players and ruining the salary structure is a big one, moving to different locations is another, and of course negotiating TV rights deals as there's strength in numbers. So in the end, it still comes back to the ownership unit of each specific club that's going up against the players. Right now, the players can play all over the world if they choose, and for more money virtually everywhere else. I'd say the owners need to come in hard with a strong opener, and reasonably quickly if they want to keep momentum going. This isn't complicated at all.
 
Dogdude said:
I think it's less complicated than that. Anyone involved in ownership has one goal: make money. There's the pride of owning a team, sure, but it better either make money or be a brilliant tax write-off. As for the various people involved, if you look at the term "owners" and understand that it might be an individual or a group (like the Sun) they're basically one unit per team. The umbrella organization, the WNBA or the NBA, exists at the whim of the owners as a group. It exists to keep some sort of order so that a few renegade owners don't screw things up for the rest of the club. Overspending on players and ruining the salary structure is a big one, moving to different locations is another, and of course negotiating TV rights deals as there's strength in numbers. So in the end, it still comes back to the ownership unit of each specific club that's going up against the players. Right now, the players can play all over the world if they choose, and for more money virtually everywhere else. I'd say the owners need to come in hard with a strong opener, and reasonably quickly if they want to keep momentum going. This isn't complicated at all.
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While I agree that they have the same goal: “make money”, how they do this is different depending on what they actually own. Unfortunately, we don’t know how revenue is apportioned amongst all the groups. The knowledge would be very useful in understanding the motivation off each specific group,

In every other major league, the owners are purely team owners who have come together to form a partnership. The WNBA is (currently) unique in its structure. I would bet that’s one of the reasons the league is screwing around with the Sun. Team owners want franchise appreciation while league/investor owners want expansion $$$. It’s definitely a different dynamic.
 
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