My hot take, don't ever draft a running back in the 1st rd. | Page 2 | The Boneyard

My hot take, don't ever draft a running back in the 1st rd.

CardiacAndre7 said:
Hot take: Giants shouldn’t draft Evan Neal or Ereck Flowers or Kadarius Toney or Daniel Jones or Eli Apple or Deandre Baker in the 1st round.
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The level of incompetence with Giants draft is staggering. I especially like the trade down that got us Toney, instead of sitting tight and taking Parsons. :eek:
 
Palatine said:
I think that Barkley hid a lot of Daniel Jones' flaws. Teams loaded the box against the run versus the Barkley and made a horrible QB look competent. With a good QB, he immediately returned to the HOF performance level he showed as rookie. Barkley is the exception to the rule.
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The fundamental problem at this point is that any running back worth taking in the first round is going to end up on a team with a lot greater needs than RB. The Barkley's and McCaffrey's are important players once they get away from the bad team that drafted them.

And as running backs don't do get with second contracts, most don't last long enough to get onto a good team.

So basically, Jeanty in the first round isn't a bad move in isolation, but Jeanty to the Jacksonville is foolish.
 
LStudfellow said:
Or Kayvon Thibodeaux or Deonte Banks, either.

Goes to show you the difference a good GM versus a bad one makes. Pivotal to the success or failure of a franchise. Sure, it is easy to say that Dave Gettleman was bad... because he was.

But the truth is that Joe Schoen so far has done a particularly lousy job as GM also. I thought he was an excellent hire in 2022. But his track record so far stinks.

To date:
1. Malik Nabors is the first 1st round draft choice he has hit on... 1 for 4. The 2022 draft with Thibodeaux and Neal in particular sticks out as a disaster. Also, not much good has come out of the later rounds either. On his 3 drafts Joe Schoen has been a failure. Grade: Failure

2. Brian Daboll hiring. Looked good for the first year... but then his spat with Wink Martindale that caused Wink to leave, lack of control over the locker room and puzzling in game decisions the last couple of years marks this as a failure also. So Schoen keeps Daboll and lets Martindale go. Turned out to be the wrong choice. Grade: Failure.

3. Signing Daniel Jones long term, letting Saquon Barkley go to the Eagles. Both terrible decisions. It looked even worse if you watched "Hard Knocks" and you saw Schoen talk about him. Schoen was clueless of Barkley's value to the franchise vs. Jones. Your the freaking GM! That is an integral part of your job, knowing the importance of your personnel. Grade: Failure

4. Biggest move of last off season was to trade for Brian Burns for 2nd and 5th round picks, and then gave him a 5-year, $150 million contract with $87 million of that guaranteed. You give up that much for a guy, he better be a difference maker. But if you watched the Giants last year you know that Burns was not nearly that much of a difference maker. Obviously, since they sucked most of the year. Grade: Failure.

5. One of most important jobs: how you manuever the cap. According to several reliable sources, including Sports Illustrated, the Giants are 14th in cap space. Yet they were arguably, along with the Browns the worst team in the league. So, they are over-paying for the talent they do have on the roster. This of course falls directly on the GM. Grade: Failure

Therefore, the guy has literally succeeded at hardly anything (give him Nabors on the draft and Bobby Okereke on free agency, but not much else) since he has been the GM. Very disappointing.

And it shows you how valuable the GM is in the NFL, for sure. Two bad GM's in a row, along with Jerry Reese also struggling over the last few years of his tenure than ended in 2017 and this is what results: 10 years of the worst franchise (at least record-wise) in all of the NFL.

Over 10 years of lousy football... AND WE'VE HAD ENOUGH!!!
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Calling Thibodeaux a bust is dumb. I'm not sure what people were expecting when we drafted him, but he's been very productive
 
I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll keep this brief.

My biggest issue with Scoen is that none of the moves that he has made to date seem to follow any actual plan on team building and now he is in a situation where his priorities lean towards keeping himself employed, not a long term build for the franchise.

I have a very bad feeling that he will be very willing to greatly overpay to move back into the first round tonight to draft a QB (Dart) in large part because the excuse that he needs to be judged by what the QB looks like a few down the road should keep from being fired.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll keep this brief.

My biggest issue with Scoen is that none of the moves that he has made to date seem to follow any actual plan on team building and now he is in a situation where his priorities lean towards keeping himself employed, not a long term build for the franchise.

I have a very bad feeling that he will be very willing to greatly overpay to move back into the first round tonight to draft a QB (Dart) in large part because the excuse that he needs to be judged by what the QB looks like a few down the road should keep from being fired.
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Carter at 3 and moving back up for Shedeur or Dart would be a perfect draft. Wouldn't even care what happens on days 2 and 3
 
navery12 said:
Carter at 3 and moving back up for Shedeur or Dart would be a perfect draft. Wouldn't even care what happens on days 2 and 3
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Apparently they like Shough a lot as well.

I like Carter a lot, I would be happy with the pick. I also wouldn’t mind moving back a bit and drafting someone like that guy from BC if they want an edge, and stockpiling some picks. I don’t think they can really go wrong here, famous last words as a Giants fan…
 
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CardiacAndre7 said:
Apparently they like Shough a lot as well.

I like Carter a lot, I would be happy with the pick. I also wouldn’t mind moving back a bit and drafting someone like that guy from BC if they want an edge, and stockpiling some picks. I don’t think they can really go wrong here, famous last words as a Giants fan…
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I'm not opposed to moving down, I'm just not convinced that anyone will want to move up to 3
 
Scoe said:
Saquon going to the Eagles was like Marshall Faulk going to the Rams.
Great rb around very good weapons.
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Philly has an all time OL. Saquon is 10% more talented than the next RB but any RB would have been productive with that OL.
 
Scoe said:
I gotta go with the Parcells philosophy here. It's just not worth the risk, even if you hit on the rb your team better have all pros around him to start his career. People will bring up Emmitt Smith and the Cowboys but that was an outlier and the Cowboys had a boatload of picks. As a matter of fact I wouldn't draft a rb till day 3, there are many good rbs that go undrafted every year too.

What did the Vikings win with Peterson, Giants with Saquon and of course Barry Sanders with the Lions, it's always better to have an above average to very good qb and oline then it is to have a great rb.
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Ill give you a real hot take. The conventional wisdom is wrong and right. If you are a team that has its franchise qb and a good oline and there is a dynamic rb available in the 1rd you absolutely take said rb. If you are a team that is in build mode you absolutely stay away from rb in rd 1. RBs dont turn franchises around.
 
coachcap said:
Did Parcells come up with this philosophy before or after he drafted running backs in rounds 1 & 2? (Michigan rb who shall remain nameless followed by Joe Morris from Syracuse)
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Tyrone Wheatley? Jamie morris? Member those names?
I’m a Green Bay fan. I’ve been spoiled. I’ve had favre and Rodgers my whole life and now love. 3 qbs in 30 years
 
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JB75 said:
Tyrone Wheatley? Jamie morris? Member those names?
I’m a Green Bay fan. I’ve been spoiled. I’ve had favre and Rodgers my whole life and now love. 3 qbs in 30 years
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We've won as many Super Bowls as you have in those 30 years.

Also, Joe Morris was the Giant. Jaimie was his younger brother. He played for Washington (then Redskins) after going to school at Michigan (Wheatley assisted in that).
 
LStudfellow said:
Or Kayvon Thibodeaux or Deonte Banks, either.

Goes to show you the difference a good GM versus a bad one makes. Pivotal to the success or failure of a franchise. Sure, it is easy to say that Dave Gettleman was bad... because he was.

But the truth is that Joe Schoen so far has done a particularly lousy job as GM also. I thought he was an excellent hire in 2022. But his track record so far stinks.

To date:
1. Malik Nabors is the first 1st round draft choice he has hit on... 1 for 4. The 2022 draft with Thibodeaux and Neal in particular sticks out as a disaster. Also, not much good has come out of the later rounds either. On his 3 drafts Joe Schoen has been a failure. Grade: Failure

2. Brian Daboll hiring. Looked good for the first year... but then his spat with Wink Martindale that caused Wink to leave, lack of control over the locker room and puzzling in game decisions the last couple of years marks this as a failure also. So Schoen keeps Daboll and lets Martindale go. Turned out to be the wrong choice. Grade: Failure.

3. Signing Daniel Jones long term, letting Saquon Barkley go to the Eagles. Both terrible decisions. It looked even worse if you watched "Hard Knocks" and you saw Schoen talk about him. Schoen was clueless of Barkley's value to the franchise vs. Jones. Your the freaking GM! That is an integral part of your job, knowing the importance of your personnel. Grade: Failure

4. Biggest move of last off season was to trade for Brian Burns for 2nd and 5th round picks, and then gave him a 5-year, $150 million contract with $87 million of that guaranteed. You give up that much for a guy, he better be a difference maker. But if you watched the Giants last year you know that Burns was not nearly that much of a difference maker. Obviously, since they sucked most of the year. Grade: Failure.

5. One of most important jobs: how you manuever the cap. According to several reliable sources, including Sports Illustrated, the Giants are 14th in cap space. Yet they were arguably, along with the Browns the worst team in the league. So, they are over-paying for the talent they do have on the roster. This of course falls directly on the GM. Grade: Failure

Therefore, the guy has literally succeeded at hardly anything (give him Nabors on the draft and Bobby Okereke on free agency, but not much else) since he has been the GM. Very disappointing.

And it shows you how valuable the GM is in the NFL, for sure. Two bad GM's in a row, along with Jerry Reese also struggling over the last few years of his tenure than ended in 2017 and this is what results: 10 years of the worst franchise (at least record-wise) in all of the NFL.

Over 10 years of lousy football... AND WE'VE HAD ENOUGH!!!
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Agree on most points…but Keyvon isn’t a bust. Schoen’s handling of the Saquan/Jones disaster shows how bad he is. Issue now is he fighting for his GM career…and desperation rarely provides good results.

Even the Reese hiring was a bomb. He won but it was with the structure/players Accorsi put in place. The further he got from Ernie the worse his results

Honestly…..THIS ALL FALLS ON MARA. He has demonstrated he is incapable of making a good hire. Reese, Gettleman, likely Schoen. Firing Coughlin, hiring McAdoo, Shurmer, Judge and maybe Daboll.

If this was a track record of any CEO’s hiring, they would have been fired 5 years ago. Any success John has had is with his fathers hires

I don’t see any success on the Giants horizon until someone else starts making hiring/firing decisions
 
Colin Cowherd compares wrs to sports cars, I say RBs are like energy drinks.
 
HuskyHawk said:
I think we are seeing positional value shift back again. WR is the new RB, the college game is so pass heavy that it's flooding the NFL with talent. Still, you need 6 WR and 3 RB, so it retains value. But the running game is back in the NFL as you'd expect. Teams building a defense to stop the pass are vulnerable to the run.

So yes, you can take a RB in round 1. Worth it just for the 5th year option. But taking one in the top half of round 1 should be really rare and probably reserved for good teams who have a real need and for elite prospects. Jeanty will definitely go high in round 1. It's a very strong RB draft so round 2 will be RB heavy.
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You can, you just have to avoid paying for that huge second contract. We'll see how it all works out, but the Eagles took a chance on Barkley for $12.5M a year and in year 1 it worked out great. Now they've already extended him for another $20M a year, and to top it off, $30M of that is in void years that will end up accelerating to whenever they part ways.
 
DRBackup said:
The name "Colin Cowherd" should never be uttered in anything remotely resembling a serious sports discussion
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I don't think he's that bad there are far worse analysts. They have to talk to fill air time.
 
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Giants need an offensive line if they want to protect the quarterback and have a running game. The last time they had that was when? Jones spent his career running for his life.
 
Scoe said:
The mistake was holding onto Saquon too long, should've traded or cut him when the Giants were 1-6 and not going anywhere in his last year, it was Saquon that won those meaningless games down the stretch that cost the Giants Jayden Daniels.
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And he wouldn't have ended up on the iggles
 
jibsey said:
Giants need an offensive line if they want to protect the quarterback and have a running game. The last time they had that was when? Jones spent his career running for his life.
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Jones was also a problem.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
We've won as many Super Bowls as you have in those 30 years.

Also, Joe Morris was the Giant. Jaimie was his younger brother. He played for Washington (then Redskins) after going to school at Michigan (Wheatley assisted in that).
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Good call on Jamie Morris. You’re right he was on Washington and thanks for the nice little dig. I’d much rather be competitive over the last 30 years and pretty much a playoff team every year as opposed to the Giants who have had about 10 of those years where their season was over by Halloween —-one of the worst organizations in football in the past 7-8 years. lol. My dad is a giants fan and most of my boys are too so I got nothing against them. Just a sad organization right now.
 
JB75 said:
Good call on Jamie Morris. You’re right he was on Washington and thanks for the nice little dig. I’d much rather be competitive over the last 30 years and pretty much a playoff team every year as opposed to the Giants who have had about 10 of those years where their season was over by Halloween —-one of the worst organizations in football in the past 7-8 years. lol. My dad is a giants fan and most of my boys are too so I got nothing against them. Just a sad organization right now.
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True, a very sad organization over the past 12+ years. It kind of reminds me of two 12+ year stretches Green Bay experienced from 1969 to 1993.
 
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Raiders got better in the short term but Shedeur would've been the better long term pick there. Shedeur would've sat a year under Geno Smith, it's a dumb pick.
 
bjc42 said:
Shedeur is awful. he is also going to be a locker room cancer.
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Are those your own thoughts or you just leaning into that narrative. Sitting and learning from a vet would be an ideal situation for him.
 
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