OT: MVP- Judge or Raleigh?

[WhereistheDove?]

Great question. Ive often thought about this phenomenon and I've come to realize that it does matter. Stevie Wonder's music exists as it is but it has more depth knowing he is blind. Confederacy of Dunces reads differently when you know Toole's life story.
In this case, the numbers are static but his switch hitting ability adds an extra dimension.

I get that it’s cool, but that should have zero bearing on his value when talking about the MVP. Judge’s offensive numbers vs. both LHP and RHP are better than Cal’s from either side of the plate. Interestingly, Judge is also arguably has more consistent outcomes against LHP and RHP than Cal, despite not being a switch hitter.

 

[uconnever]

If Cal gets 62 or 63 I’d give it to him, but otherwise it’s Judge. He’s even missed some time.

 

[RuffRuff]

If Cal gets 62 or 63 I’d give it to him, but otherwise it’s Judge. He’s even missed some time.

You’re kinda supporting the fact it’s emotional then, no. Diff between 61 and 62 is immaterial as it comes to comparing numbers vs Judge.

 

[jibsey]

If Cal gets 62 or 63 I’d give it to him, but otherwise it’s Judge. He’s even missed some time.

Just extrapolate 53 more AB’s to Judge, that’s how many more Raleigh has.
One thing about Judges’s average, there 8 players in all of MLB. with over a .300 average and Judge is leading number 2 by ten points. This is Ted Williams like based on the number of players. There were 31 in 1941.

 

[Jaydumo20]

I get that it’s cool, but that should have zero bearing on his value when talking about the MVP. Judge’s offensive numbers vs. both LHP and RHP are better than Cal’s from either side of the plate. Interestingly, Judge is also arguably has more consistent outcomes against LHP and RHP than Cal, despite not being a switch hitter.

That is also true. If they had equal numbers then that might give cal an edge but Judges better numbers do make it less of a thing.
In the name of being 100% fair, they should always consider post season performance IMO. It's so huge

 

[RuffRuff]

Just extrapolate 53 more AB’s to Judge, that’s how many more Raleigh has.
One thing about Judges’s average, there 8 players in all of MLB. with over a .300 average and Judge is leading number 2 by ten points. This is Ted Williams like based on the number of players.

Can’t penalize Raleigh for not getting hurt, can only reward him at catcher.

 

[Captbluefin]

It’s most valuable player.

Not most valuable catcher..

If Cal was a SS does he win? That’s a NO.

You can’t possibly hit under .250 and be MVP

 

[Buzzyboy]

It's Raleigh or it is a joke. Most prolific season by a catcher or switch hitter.

Raleigh is having a Roger Maris season where he, out of nowhere hits so many more home runs than he's ever hit in a season and is a really good defensive catcher whereas Maris was an outstanding defensive outfielder ... Judge and Mantle were obviously better and more consistent ballplayers but Maris won the MVP that year and Raleigh just might as well ... You almost think Raleigh was on steroids or something to hit so man;y more homers from anything he's ever done and well into his career ... I'm assuming not but it is weird

 

[Buzzyboy]

No problem with either winning. With that said, Judge was on a good WS team last year. Cal is taking a team, out of the playoffs for 2 decades into the post season. Is that worthy of MVP?

The assumption that HE is taking them into the playoffs really is just conjecture ... they added more than a few players this year and have another 50 home run guy on their roster ...

 

[WhereistheDove?]

... You almost think Raleigh was on steroids or something to hit so man;y more homers from anything he's ever done and well into his career ... I'm assuming not but it is weird

His metrics are pretty interesting. You’d think he’d be hitting the ball a lot harder but his average exit velocity is almost identical to last year. Instead, he’s striking out less, barreling more balls, hitting more fly balls, and has become more of a pull hitter. It seems most of the change is approach. Also just wild he’s doing this in one of the hardest parks to hit HRs in all of baseball.

 

[RuffRuff]

Raleigh is having a Roger Maris season where he, out of nowhere hits so many more home runs than he's ever hit in a season and is a really good defensive catcher whereas Maris was an outstanding defensive outfielder ... Judge and Mantle were obviously better and more consistent ballplayers but Maris won the MVP that year and Raleigh just might as well ... You almost think Raleigh was on steroids or something to hit so man;y more homers from anything he's ever done and well into his career ... I'm assuming not but it is weird

Luis Gonzalez says hello.

 

[JMick]

Judge is having one of the best offensive seasons of all time. It's not even close.

 

[Lafayette]

The switch hitting comes up because Raleigh passed Mantle for most HR in a season by a switch hitter.

 

[Spaceman213J]

As a big Red Sox fan, I hate to pick a Yankee over anyone else, but Judge is the MVP. He has like 30 more hits and 30 more walks. I know his defense has dropped off some in recent years, but I would still give him the edge.

 

[mauconnfan]

If it’s Raleigh it’s an absolute joke. This shouldn’t be close but I know it will. I mean he’s catching 75% of the games at a just above average rate as a defender. He’s DHd for quite a few HRs which Bench couldn’t do in his MVP year where he caught 159 games. He’s had a great year for a catcher and for him, a .226 lifetime hitter who’s hitting .247 which just doesn’t impress anyone add the fact he strikes out a ton 2nd place isn’t too bad. He’s 80 points or more behind in BA/OBP has less hits, walks, runs I mean this is baseball. Judge is a way above average OFer (please don’t tell me about one drop because that will tell me how little you know about baseball) one of the best in the game and minus the arm injury they do not take extra bags on the man. If you’re going to give it to a guy who’s had a great year for a position rather than a guy who has absolutely been a consistent terror in the AL for years it’s a joke. It could happen because the voters aren’t very good at understanding the game. Almost expect Judge to get screwed because idiots like change.

 

[RuffRuff]

If it’s Raleigh it’s an absolute joke. This shouldn’t be close but I know it will. I mean he’s catching 75% of the games at a just above average rate as a defender. He’s DHd for quite a few HRs which Bench couldn’t do in his MVP year where he caught 159 games. He’s had a great year for a catcher and for him, a .226 lifetime hitter who’s hitting .247 which just doesn’t impress anyone add the fact he strikes out a ton 2nd place isn’t too bad. He’s 80 points or more behind in BA/OBP has less hits, walks, runs I mean this is baseball. Judge is a way above average OFer (please don’t tell me about one drop because that will tell me how little you know about baseball) one of the best in the game and minus the arm injury they do not take extra bags on the man. If you’re going to give it to a guy who’s had a great year for a position rather than a guy who has absolutely been a consistent terror in the AL for years it’s a joke. It could happen because the voters aren’t very good at understanding the game. Almost expect Judge to get screwed because idiots like change.

You're doing a lot of past accomplishments (or flaws) referencing for what is an annual award. What Raleigh or Judge has been in past seasons doesn't matter. Raleigh won the Gold Glove at catcher last year, so he's pretty good behind the plate.

I don't think anyone who hasn't played the sport realizes how involved a catcher is than any other position on the field. You are in the squat position for 120 pitches a game, catching 95mph fastballs. There is a reason the position doesn't have many great hitters historically, it's because it's highly specialized and with a lot of emphasis on the defensive end. It's practically accepted that you don't have to be a great hitter. It's hard to know exactly how much value to put on that and it's somewhat subjective. You can make arguments in either direction. Value is hard to quantify. I realize WAR is one data point heavily in favor of Judge. I know how this place works and wondering all those popping off in favor of Judge are Yankee fans.

 

[controlfade]

You're doing a lot of past accomplishments (or flaws) referencing for what is an annual award. What Raleigh or Judge has been in past seasons doesn't matter. Raleigh won the Gold Glove at catcher last year, so he's pretty good behind the plate.

I don't think anyone who hasn't played the sport realizes how involved a catcher is than any other position on the field. You are in the squat position for 120 pitches a game, catching 95mph fastballs. There is a reason the position doesn't have many great hitters historically, it's because it's highly specialized and with a lot of emphasis on the defensive end. It's practically accepted that you don't have to be a great hitter. It's hard to know exactly how much value to put on that and it's somewhat subjective. You can make arguments in either direction. Value is hard to quantify. I realize WAR is one data point heavily in favor of Judge. I know how this place works and wondering all those popping off in favor of Judge are Yankee fans.

I’m a Sox fan and the fact this even debatable is hilarious. Judge statistics are superior in just about every category except HR and RBI. His avg is nearly 80 points higher and his WAR destroy Cal. Judge is the best hitter in the game (playoff not included) and an elite defender.
Raleigh has had a great season for Seattle but the only reason he would/could win is the same reason Josh Allen won MVP last year over Lamar.

 

[RuffRuff]

I’m a Sox fan and the fact this even debatable is hilarious. Judge statistics are superior in just about every category except HR and RBI. His avg is nearly 80 points higher and his WAR destroy Cal. Judge is the best hitter in the game (playoff not included) and an elite defender.
Raleigh has had a great season for Seattle but the only reason he would/could win is the same reason Josh Allen won MVP last year over Lamar.

 

[controlfade]

So because he thinks it Cal he is right?

The one stat u cannot over look is WAR. This stat shows how valuable you are to your team!

When Judge was hurt and in a slump the Yankees were horrid. I have nothing against Cal, dude has put up big power numbers but he’s not the MVP IMO.

 

[mauconnfan]

You're doing a lot of past accomplishments (or flaws) referencing for what is an annual award. What Raleigh or Judge has been in past seasons doesn't matter. Raleigh won the Gold Glove at catcher last year, so he's pretty good behind the plate.

I don't think anyone who hasn't played the sport realizes how involved a catcher is than any other position on the field. You are in the squat position for 120 pitches a game, catching 95mph fastballs. There is a reason the position doesn't have many great hitters historically, it's because it's highly specialized and with a lot of emphasis on the defensive end. It's practically accepted that you don't have to be a great hitter. It's hard to know exactly how much value to put on that and it's somewhat subjective. You can make arguments in either direction. Value is hard to quantify. I realize WAR is one data point heavily in favor of Judge. I know how this place works and wondering all those popping off in favor of Judge are Yankee fans.

I’m a baseball fan and yes a Yankee fan but by no means would I throw Judge out there if it wasn’t so obvious. The other guy is having a fantastic year but you did mention that because of the position and it’s hard to be a good hitter right? Well .248 isn’t a good hitter but his 60 HRs are impressive. Actually a career .226 hitter so he has improved there as well, so overall a special year. He deserved to be in the discussion I guess but by no means does he deserve the award.

 

[mauconnfan]

Luis Gonzalez says hello.

Well we know he did them, I doubt Cal is.

Brady Anderson says hello as well.

 

[JMick]

I’m a Sox fan and the fact this even debatable is hilarious. Judge statistics are superior in just about every category except HR and RBI. His avg is nearly 80 points higher and his WAR destroy Cal. Judge is the best hitter in the game (playoff not included) and an elite defender.
Raleigh has had a great season for Seattle but the only reason he would/could win is the same reason Josh Allen won MVP last year over Lamar.

If it wasn't Judge and some rando putting up his stats, people would say the rando deserves it. People take for granted how good Judge is and how crazy it is what he's doing.

In Tony Gwynns 1994 season where he hit .394 the league average was .270

In 2025 with Judge hitting .330 the league average is .246

He's a few hits here and there away from having the most impressive average in the modern era along with all of the other insane advanced stats, HR, IBB, BB, hits, etc.

 

[controlfade]

If it wasn't Judge and some rando putting up his stats, people would say the rando deserves it. People take for granted how good Judge is and how crazy it is what he's doing.

In Tony Gwynns 1994 season where he hit .394 the league average was .270

In 2025 with Judge hitting .330 the league average is .246

He's a few hits here and there away from having the most impressive average in the modern era along with all of the other insane advanced stats, HR, IBB, BB, hits, etc.

I agree, if it was any other player in the league with Judges numbers they win the MVP award easily.

 

[controlfade]

If it wasn't Judge and some rando putting up his stats, people would say the rando deserves it. People take for granted how good Judge is and how crazy it is what he's doing.

In Tony Gwynns 1994 season where he hit .394 the league average was .270

In 2025 with Judge hitting .330 the league average is .246

He's a few hits here and there away from having the most impressive average in the modern era along with all of the other insane advanced stats, HR, IBB, BB, hits, etc.

Judge also broke the American League record and has more intentional BB this season than any other teams total.

 

[superjohn]

If it wasn't Judge and some rando putting up his stats, people would say the rando deserves it. People take for granted how good Judge is and how crazy it is what he's doing.

In Tony Gwynns 1994 season where he hit .394 the league average was .270

In 2025 with Judge hitting .330 the league average is .246

He's a few hits here and there away from having the most impressive average in the modern era along with all of the other insane advanced stats, HR, IBB, BB, hits, etc.

This shows how much better Judge has been than everyone in baseball. Springer is batting .303 with 31 homers, Judge is batting .330 with 51 homers.