OT: - MVP- Judge or Raleigh? | The Boneyard

OT: MVP- Judge or Raleigh?

I will only argue with those that say there's an obvious answer. To me, it comes down to how much importance you place on the difference in positions.

I think Raleigh will edge him out in the vote and imo I would in the slimmest of margins lean him as well. I simply place more value to playing catcher at a high level defensively compared to Judge's superior offensive stats. It's insane to me how high his level of play is both offensively and defensively considering the physical toll that it takes to squat for a game and do it 155-160 games on the season.

I think he'll win the vote due to the M's finishing the season on a tear and winning the AL West and if he gets to 62/63 home runs would feel very confident.

I'll end with a disclaimer, Judge is an extremely deserving player as well and I would have no qualms if he got the award
 
Raleigh is having a truly historic offensive season. season. Maybe the best by any catcher in history.
Then there is this. The ERA of Seattle pitchers when Garver (the Mariners other catcher) is catching: 4.44. The ERA of pitchers when Raleigh is catching: 3.49.

His team is also fighting for first place. Take him off the team and they are a middle of the pack also ran.

Judge is having a great season. But his impact on his team is no greater than Raleigh.
 
.-.
I’m not really offended by either. Judge is having a much better offensive season but is a middling defender at a non-premium position. Raleigh has a ton more defensive value than judge. It’s a total toss up for me.
 
uconngb said:
All the Yankee fans will say Judge. All the objective people will say Raleigh. What he is doing is historic.
Expand ...
Reality is the exact opposite. Objectively Judge has much better advanced stats than Raleigh. Subjectively you can certainly say Raleigh.
 
.-.
Palatine said:
Raleigh is having a truly historic offensive season. season. Maybe the best by any catcher in history.
Then there is this. The ERA of Seattle pitchers when Garver (the Mariners other catcher) is catching: 4.44. The ERA of pitchers when Raleigh is catching: 3.49.

His team is also fighting for first place. Take him off the team and they are a middle of the pack also ran.

Judge is having a great season. But his impact on his team is no greater than Raleigh.
Expand ...

I would assume the backup catchers are not catching the aces and they’re catching the 4/5 starters to give Raleigh a day off.
 
Raleigh but it's pretty close. Probably the best season by a catcher of all time. His team clinched the division now. Plays the hardest and most demanding position on the field. That edges out the better raw hitting numbers from Judge.
 
Judge should 1000%.....but he is a victim of his own success....here is why....
His Batting Average...#1 in all of MLB
His OBP is #1 in all of MLB
His SLG is #1 in all of MLB
His OPS is #1 in all of MLB
His BB is #1 in all of MLB
His Runs is #1 in all of MLB
His HR is #4 in all of MLB
vs.
#1 in HR in all of MLB (4 ahead of the #2 guy)
RBIs only #1 in AL.......that's it.........

Objectively it's not even close....we haven't seen a season like Judge's.....to hit for that much power and average, etc....and be a fantastic defensive player.....not even close....and anyone who says different is either a Sox fan or feels like he shouldn't win it "again"...which is dumb
 
Chin Diesel said:
It's Raleigh or it is a joke. Most prolific season by a catcher or switch hitter.
Expand ...
tremendous year for him yes but he hasn’t caught all of his games, been a designated hitter. About 40 games. He’s caught 120. And Judge a lot of designated hitter and I know that but .327 vs .248?
It will be close but it’s not like there’s no contest here.
 
.-.
TonyClifton said:
Objectively it's not even close....we haven't seen a season like Judge's.....to hit for that much power and average, etc....and be a fantastic defensive player.....not even close....and anyone who says different is either a Sox fan or feels like he shouldn't win it "again"...which is dumb
Expand ...
No. The metrics have been very consistent that as he’s aged, he’s turned into a very mediocre defender. If he was a fantastic defender, this race would be a total no-brainer, but Raleigh is a much better defender at a much more premium defensive position.
 
TonyClifton said:
Judge should 1000%.....but he is a victim of his own success....here is why....
His Batting Average...#1 in all of MLB
His OBP is #1 in all of MLB
His SLG is #1 in all of MLB
His OPS is #1 in all of MLB
His BB is #1 in all of MLB
His Runs is #1 in all of MLB
His HR is #4 in all of MLB
vs.
#1 in HR in all of MLB (4 ahead of the #2 guy)
RBIs only #1 in AL.......that's it.........

Objectively it's not even close....we haven't seen a season like Judge's.....to hit for that much power and average, etc....and be a fantastic defensive player.....not even close....and anyone who says different is either a Sox fan or feels like he shouldn't win it "again"...which is dumb
Expand ...

You realize there are multiple players who have won Triple Crowns meaning players have hit for average, power and production.

Winning two legs of the Triple crown isn't unusual.
 
Chin Diesel said:
It's Raleigh or it is a joke. Most prolific season by a catcher or switch hitter.
Expand ...
As a longtime Yankee fan (have memories going back to when Mickey Mantle was still playing) I would vote for Raleigh this year if I had a vote, but that would be solely due to the position and how seldom catchers put up historic offensive numbers. I will say however that Judge getting injured appears to be a low key piece of divine intervention as with a full season (and no time needed to get back in synch once he returned) his numbers would have been too much for Raleigh to overcome.

Best offensive season ever for a catcher? Very likely, especially with the value placed in home runs and the dismissal of batting averages these days.

Best offensive season a switch hitter? Mickey Mantle hit .356 with 52 home runs in 1956. I need someone to explain how roughly 10 additional home runs would be worth dropping roughly 100 points from your batting average.
 
Judge. But Raleigh has a better story and I wouldn't be surprised if he wins it.
 
WhereistheDove? said:
No. The metrics have been very consistent that as he’s aged, he’s turned into a very mediocre defender. If he was a fantastic defender, this race would be a total no-brainer, but Raleigh is a much better defender at a much more premium defensive position.
Expand ...
Judge is not a mediocre defender - he is well above average.


One of my favorite stat comparisons is OPS - Judge's 1.135 is about 180 points higher than Cal's. If you took 180 points off Cal's you'd have guys like Zach McKinstry
 
.-.
uconngb said:
All the Yankee fans will say Judge. All the objective people will say Raleigh. What he is doing is historic.
Expand ...

I hate the Yankees with every fiber in my being and I'd vote for Judge.

His OPS is almost 200 points higher than Raleigh's. Position matters but Judge is just having a much better offensive season. If it were closer, I'd give it to Raleigh.
 
slepers said:
Raleigh, position catcher, more home runs, rbis, and didn’t miss any games, enough said
Expand ...

This is what the AARP would write if it endorsed Raleigh.
 
Chin Diesel said:
You realize there are multiple players who have won Triple Crowns meaning players have hit for average, power and production.

Winning two legs of the Triple crown isn't unusual.
Expand ...
He is literally leading all of MLB in 6 offensive categories....not 2...but thanks for your analysis
 
Friends and I have been debating this one. If history dictates, no better year to take a look than 2012 when Buster Posey won it. He won over Ryan Braun, who outside of BA, had far better numbers in key categories. Posey won in a landslide, only giving a couple votes to Braun and......Yadier Molina, another catcher. I think the voters like to award catchers when possible. They're in every play, generally the captain of the field. Seattle is also going to win the West for the first time in about 25 years. Even though Judge has some titanic numbers and the better "offensive" player, Raleigh likely going to win it as the most "valuable" player.

1758825301721.png
 
WhereistheDove? said:
No. The metrics have been very consistent that as he’s aged, he’s turned into a very mediocre defender. If he was a fantastic defender, this race would be a total no-brainer, but Raleigh is a much better defender at a much more premium defensive position.
Expand ...
wrong.....he got hurt this year.....and he was shifted to a new position, CF, last year- all of which hurt his defensive numbers. No one runs on his arm.
 
RuffRuff said:
Friends and I have been debating this one. If history dictates, no better year to take a look than 2012 when Buster Posey won it. He won over Ryan Braun, who outside of BA, had far better numbers in key categories. Posey won in a landslide, only giving a couple votes to Braun and......Yadier Molina, another catcher. I think the voters like to award catchers when possible. They're in every play, generally the captain of the field. Seattle is also going to win the West for the first time in about 25 years. Even though Judge has some titanic numbers and the better "offensive" player, Raleigh likely going to win it as the most "valuable" player.

View attachment 111872
Expand ...
I'd add a lot of weight to Posey based on the higher batting average.

With the players in question with this thread, Judge is batting ~up points higher than Raleigh.
 
.-.
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,238
Messages
4,559,269
Members
10,445
Latest member
Azerion


Top Bottom